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 Post subject: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:28 pm 
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I'm reusing my existing case, in the Antec P180 family (but I forget which one), and power supply, an Antec with more power than I need. This will mostly be used for personal programming projects; I know it's overpowered for those requirements, but I'm okay with that. That said, I'd be interested in hearing anyone's suggestions about comparable quality/power for any cheaper.

My proposed ingredients are:

mobo: MSI Z77A-G41
cpu: Intel Core i5-3350P Ivy Bridge 3.1GHz
drive: SAMSUNG 840 EVO MZ-7TE120BW
ram: GeIL EVO Veloce Series 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600
heatsink: probably a Mugen 4

The selections are influenced by what's on sale at New Egg at the moment (after rebate, the motherboard's $65).

I know the most obvious place to save money is with a weaker CPU, but I really want the quad-core.

thanks...


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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:47 pm 
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That CPU don't have graphics. P-seres. And a motherboard on sale is great, but I would still consider if you need a Z77 board. H87 (or maybe even H81) and a Haswell CPU might be a better choice, depending on prices.

Those memory sticks are cheap but they have those huge annoying heatsinks on them. I would go for another pair.

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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Those are some really good points, and a clear demonstration of how out of the loop I've been since the last time I did this a couple of years ago -- thanks.

Let's now assume the CPU is:

Intel Core i5-4570S Haswell 2.9GHz LGA 1150 65W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I54570S

...and I'm left without much clue about the motherboard.


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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:38 pm 
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There's a significant hit on random write speeds at 120GB. That said, any recent SSD is worth it.

Also, try out pcpartpicker.com.

If you don't need a lot of horsepower, why not get a Haswell based Pentium and mobo? You can plop a quad core in there later if you need more oomph.

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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:30 am 
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Zed Lopez wrote:
...and I'm left without much clue about the motherboard.

Probably an ASRock H87 Pro 4 or Z87 Extreme 3 should work fine, IMVHO (as well as any MSI equivalent).

And if I were you, unless there were any substantial saving over a regular Core i5 SKU, I would get rid of any Intel -S or -T CPU.

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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:53 am 
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Remembering which P180 it is reminds me of another significant constraint: it's a mini-p180, so I need a micro ATX (or smaller) board. It's been so long since I've used a full ATX, I wasn't even thinking of it.


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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:11 pm 
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Zed Lopez wrote:
...I need a micro ATX...


...ASRock Z87M Pro4, ASRock Z87M Extreme 4, ASRock H87M Pro 4...

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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:56 pm 
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Why would you avoid the -s CPU? I was figuring I could use the lower power consumption and thus quieter cooling more than I could use another .3 GHz of speed. Are there other issues?


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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:54 pm 
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With that Mugen 4 you will be able to cool a non-S quietly too. There is very little difference between them, less than the official TDP numbers makes it look. Basically the general advice is to only get one of the factory underclocked CPUs if you really have a reason. No ability to manually underclock and system must be powered by a 60W brick or cooled by a low profile cooler, stuff like that.
If you can make do with less power, get a cheaper CPU. Don't get an expensive factory underclocked one because of some non-existent heat issue.

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HTPC: ASRock H81M-ITX | Pentium G3420 | 4GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 11.2W
Gaming: Intel DH77EB | i5-3570K | GTX 750 Ti | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | TJ08-E | G-360 360W
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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Zed Lopez wrote:
Are there other issues?


It's just an artificial market segmentation by Intel: any decent motherboard may give you a comparable advantage through a small undervolting, while a bad driver can spoil any power saving. About cooling, you won't get anything really useful, noise-wise, by an -S SKU.

Give a look at SPCR findings about previous generation Core i5 (32nm Sandy Bridge).

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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:57 pm 
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Thanks, folks. Things now stand at:

i5-4570 (or maybe i5-4670... if I'm already overkilling, what's another $20 of overkill?)
MSI Z87M-G43 (at $100, only $20 more than ASRock H87's)
G.SKILL Sniper Low Voltage Series 8GB (2 x 4GB)
Samsung 840 Evo... still thinking about what size.


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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:14 pm 
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Zed Lopez wrote:
Thanks, folks. Things now stand at:

i5-4570 (or maybe i5-4670... if I'm already overkilling, what's another $20 of overkill?)
MSI Z87M-G43 (at $100, only $20 more than ASRock H87's)
G.SKILL Sniper Low Voltage Series 8GB (2 x 4GB)
Samsung 840 Evo... still thinking about what size.


If you're going to use a Mugen 4, I don't think you will have enough clearance for the G.SKILL Sniper series. The Sniper series is listed as being 42mm tall. I tried to use RipjawsX in my build (40mm) and there wasn't sufficient clearance between the heat spreaders on the RAM and the Mugen's fan.

In the end, I used G.Skill Ares series RAM (thanks for the suggestion, CA_Steve) which has a height of 33mm. I think you can safely use RAM with a height up to 36-37mm (Note: based on my eye-balling), any taller, you run the risk of the RAM heat spreaders hitting the fan.

On the Samsung 840 EVO, when I was researching the current crop of SSD's I found the 250GB size to be the best value for money. Having said that, I just bought a 120GB as well to put into my wife's machine.


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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:21 am 
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It's not difficult to pull apart the ridiculous heatsinks on those G.Skill Sniper sticks, I have done so myself. Other than the heatsinks they are pretty neat, 1.25v and all.

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Main: ASRock B85M-ITX | i3-4330 | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 730 240GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 13.9W
HTPC: ASRock H81M-ITX | Pentium G3420 | 4GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 11.2W
Gaming: Intel DH77EB | i5-3570K | GTX 750 Ti | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | TJ08-E | G-360 360W
Server: Intel DH77DF | i3-2100T | 4TB+3x3TB | picoPSU | Idle 24W AC


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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:01 am 
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Why, oh why are there tall heatsinks on 1.25V RAM? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:24 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Why, oh why are there tall heatsinks on 1.25V RAM? :shock:

they're about as helpful as the spoiler on a prius...

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 Post subject: Re: please kibbitz on my new build...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:51 am 
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For a M-ATX board, I'd look at an AsRock Z87M-E and go with Kingston KVR16N11/8, should be compatible with the board but check the AsRock compatibility list. Avoids lots of issues and unlike AMD, Intel's really don't take advantage of much faster memory. For dev work, More is Better instead of Faster.

On the i5-4570 - did a "Bang for Buck" work sheet recently and it's the top choice. 2nd is the 4670 for +$20

For lots of Dev work, I'd look at the E3-1225V3 Xeon (lacks hyperthreading) +$25 over the 4570 for as it would be better for dev work or go with the E3-1245V3 Xeon for the best performance +2400 pts over the 4570.

As to the Intel 4600 GPU, the drivers are rock solid in both Windows and FLOSS (BSD/Linux) while offering enough performance to play Crysis at Med-High settings up to 1080. Not to shabby for onboard graphics.

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