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 Post subject: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:19 am
Posts: 8
Current setup:

Server (in the cupboard) 24/7:
http://www.asus.com/Barebone_PCs/S1AT5NM10E/ (Atom D525 with ODD, 160gb 2,5", 60W PSU attached)
2 x 4tb from WD usb3 attached (go to sleep)

I dont hear the pc when the cupboard is closed - yes it gets a bit warmer inside but it is stable - power draw ~30W idle
Basically file serving by DLNA, Subsonic,

"Old" gaming PC:
Mainboard: Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
some Noctua CPU cooler
Sapphire Radeon 5850 (noisy when gaming, silent on idle, before i had 3870 x2 - crappy card)
2 ODD, 1 floppy
2TB WD green + 60gb SSD
Thermaltake Toughpower 750W Cable Management

Idle Power draw ~120W load 350W (if i remember correctly) - not 100% sure if those measurements are correct - i can try again when i come home
5W draw on standby (which it is most of the time)

Goal machine:
Replace both PCs with one ITX box (preferable in my cupboard again so it might get another 10-20° plus when closed)
Power draw on idle: not more than 30W
If i could stick a grpahics card in one of the Gigabyte brix this would be the solution,but...

Components I have looked at so far:

Fractal Design Node 304 black (spcr recommended and 37,5cm in depth which should fit)
Gigabyte GA-Z87N-WIFI (spcr recommended)
Intel Core i5-4570T 35W 1150pin (low profile processor should not get that warm or?)
MSI N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC Twin Frozr Gaming (i am not sure which ones of the 750 Ti is the best choice, but 60W max consumption sonds good)
Kingston HyperX blu. DIMM 8GB (One 8gb ram stick - so i can add another one if i like later)
Mushkin Enhanced Chronos deluxe 240GB (not sure on this)

What i have no idea is which cpu cooler i should choose and which one will fit? should be silent and
Also the PSU i dont know yet - I would first try my toughpower 750W, but with cable management it might be problematic. Also no C6/7 power states supported.
Just found the "Sea Sonic Platinum Series Fanless 400W ATX 2.3" - but will it fit?


Comments and recommendations are welcome :)


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:28 am 
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Posts: 3141
Location: ITALY
bigl wrote:
Fractal Design Node 304 black (spcr recommended and 37,5cm in depth which should fit)
Gigabyte GA-Z87N-WIFI (spcr recommended)
Intel Core i5-4570T 35W 1150pin (low profile processor should not get that warm or?)
MSI N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC Twin Frozr Gaming (i am not sure which ones of the 750 Ti is the best choice, but 60W max consumption sonds good)
Kingston HyperX blu. DIMM 8GB (One 8gb ram stick - so i can add another one if i like later)
Mushkin Enhanced Chronos deluxe 240GB (not sure on this)

What i have no idea is which cpu cooler i should choose and which one will fit? should be silent and
Also the PSU i dont know yet - I would first try my toughpower 750W, but with cable management it might be problematic. Also no C6/7 power states supported.
Just found the "Sea Sonic Platinum Series Fanless 400W ATX 2.3" - but will it fit?


Comments and recommendations are welcome :)


Some quick'n'dirty remarks: IMO you do not need a Core i5 for gaming (not to mention on a home server).
So an humble Pentium G3430 could be more than enough, and it will run cooler than any T/S SKUs. If you rather a more performing and expensive quad, probably a Core i5 4670S could serve even you better than a T-SKU, but you may safely pick the cheapest available among the 4570T, 4570S, and 4670S.

The proposed SSD is truly unremarkable (among SandForce driven SSD lots of competitor offer better firmware or usually better value, from SanDisk Ultra Plus to Intel 335).
IMHO something like a Sandisk Extreme II, Toshiba HG5d (THNSNH), Corsair Neutron or Seagate 600 would be clearly preferable, a Samsung 840 Pro also, while,if you wanna spare some money or squeeze some GB more, I'd look to the higher capacity variant of the proven Crucial M500.

About RAM, I prefer 1.35V dimm (like Crucial VLP or Kingston Lovo Green), but anything without ridicolously tall heatspreader should work: if the proposed model is on the mobo QVL it would be highly preferable.

If a mouse pad can be noisy, then I think it would be TT branded: seriously, I've lots of doubt about any TT product, however, these are my prejudices.
The proposed 400FL will fit, but given some bad user reports on latest batches, maybe I'd personally rather a Corsair RM or a SuperFlower Leadex/Golden King. A more value oriented choice could be a Cooler Master VS or again a Super Flower Golden Green. The BeQuiet E9 and PP10 are extremely valid choices, if you live in Europe, and so it goes for Enermax Platimax.
Another (pricey) option for a quiet mITX rig is the EVGA Hadron Air: a 500W 80Plus Gold PSU made by Seasonic, fanless up to 50% rated power, and the notoriously gorgeous EVGA chassis. Maybe not so high quality but very stylish.

About the coolers: for the proposed Fractal, I would look to something like the Noctua NH-U12S, as already seen on this forum (you can use it passive on a dual core, giving a good and close rear fan).
On the EVGA Hadron you have a 140mm height clearance, so I would go for another Noctua, the NH-C14.
At any rate, Noctua and Scythe should be preferred due to their remarkably good stock fans.

To be fair, probably the Gigabyte layout might turn out a bit critical for large coolers AND discrete graphics (and the same it goes for another candidate, the equally good MSI Gaming Z87I board): perhaps a more costly ASUS should offer a better layout in order to accomodate both a large, quiet cooler and a discrete graphics, so think about it.

Last but not least, the GPU: more probably that not, the MSI Gaming is the best 750Ti on the market.
Nevertheless, noise-wise, I think that it cannot beat any cheaper 750Ti with an aftermarket Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus slapped on, so think also about this.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1981
Location: Guatemala
Look into [Official] Fractal Design Node 304 Owners Club, you will get tons of ideas into what you can build on it.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:19 am
Posts: 8
Thank you vers much for the detailed feedback - another option which i did not consider is to go fanless on my bigtower (where i have the q6600 inside) as i wont move the pc much and i do have the space..

quest_for_silence wrote:
So an humble Pentium G3430 could be more than enough

I fully agree on that.
quest_for_silence wrote:

I'd look to the higher capacity variant of the proven Crucial M500.

Yes and Crucial 480gb should be cool - in my ultrabook i have the samsung 830 with 500gb
quest_for_silence wrote:

If a mouse pad can be noisy, then I think it would be TT branded: seriously, I've lots of doubt about any TT product, however, these are my prejudices.
The proposed 400FL will fit, but given some bad user reports on latest batches, maybe I'd personally rather a Corsair RM or a SuperFlower Leadex/Golden King. A more value oriented choice could be a Cooler Master VS or again a Super Flower Golden Green. The BeQuiet E9 and PP10 are extremely valid choices, if you live in Europe, and so it goes for Enermax Platimax.
Another (pricey) option for a quiet mITX rig is the EVGA Hadron Air: a 500W 80Plus Gold PSU made by Seasonic, fanless up to 50% rated power, and the notoriously gorgeous EVGA chassis. Maybe not so high quality but very stylish.

Among the passive ones which ones is the best bang for the buck?

Offered here in my region (Austria) I have: (C6/C7 supported)
SilverStone Nightjar Series 500W ATX 2.3 (SST-ST50NF) (passiv) 80€
SilverStone Nightjar Series 400W ATX SATA (SST-ST40NF) (passiv) 112€
Sea Sonic Platinum Series Fanless 400W ATX 2.3 (SS-400FL2) (passiv) 117€
Sea Sonic Platinum Series Fanless 460W ATX 2.3 (SS-460FL2) (passiv) 125€
FSP Fortron/Source Aurum Xilenser 400, 400W ATX 2.3 (passiv) (AU-400FL) 126€
FSP Fortron/Source Aurum Xilenser 500, 500W ATX 2.3 (passiv) (AU-500FL) 138€
Sea Sonic Platinum Series Fanless 520W ATX 2.3 (SS-520FL2) (passiv) 138€

quest_for_silence wrote:

About the coolers: for the proposed Fractal, I would look to something like the Noctua NH-U12S, as already seen on this forum (you can use it passive on a dual core, giving a good and close rear fan).
On the EVGA Hadron you have a 140mm height clearance, so I would go for another Noctua, the NH-C14.
At any rate, Noctua and Scythe should be preferred due to their remarkably good stock fans.

What about the Zalman FX100? its only 63€ and could do the job with the pentium or?
quest_for_silence wrote:

Last but not least, the GPU: more probably that not, the MSI Gaming is the best 750Ti on the market.
Nevertheless, noise-wise, I think that it cannot beat any cheaper 750Ti with an aftermarket Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus slapped on, so think also about this.

I will consider this - the MSI is still good value i think (132€). The cheapest available here is the Inno3D for 124€... i dont know..

Abula wrote:

Look into [Official] Fractal Design Node 304 Owners Club, you will get tons of ideas into what you can build on it.

I found that also... somehow the node is very "stuffed" and i think i have the space as long as it is passive..

So the current part list changed to:

Intel DH87RL 103€ mylemon.com (should be quite power efficient)
Intel Pentium G3430 79,83€ mylemon (as suggested)
Zalman FX100 62€ mylemon (well, its passive)
MSI N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC Twin Frozr Gaming mylemon 134€
Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus 24€ mylemon (as suggested)
Kingston HyperX blu. DIMM XMP Kit 8GB 68€ mylemon (a kit should do)
Crucial M500 480GB amazon 224€ (a lot of space is welcome)
SilverStone Nightjar Series 500W ATX 2.3 mylemon 80e (from the reviews not the best.... but cheap)


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1981
Location: Guatemala
Unless you changing The case also the motherboard won't fit as ita a micro ATX mobo and the case is mini itx. If you want power efficiency, intel is the way to go, but no mini itx Moros this gen, many had very good results with the as rock mini itx haswell motherboards, I seen idle close to 8w on Picopsu, if I find the thread later on ill post it. Check the thread of ocn, you will see builds with as rock mobo sand with twin tower coolers like the silver arrow.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:12 am 
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Posts: 3141
Location: ITALY
bigl wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
So an humble Pentium G3430 could be more than enough

I fully agree on that.


I beg your pardon, but that's my bad: I wanted to write G3420 and wrote G3430; as you may know, currently this latter has a very less favourable price/performance ratio (check mylemon.at: G3420, 56 euros, G3430, 79 euros, +40% for just 100MHz more).


bigl wrote:
Among the passive ones which ones is the best bang for the buck?

Offered here in my region (Austria) I have: (C6/C7 supported)
SilverStone Nightjar Series 500W ATX 2.3 (SST-ST50NF) (passiv) 80€
SilverStone Nightjar Series 400W ATX SATA (SST-ST40NF) (passiv) 112€
Sea Sonic Platinum Series Fanless 400W ATX 2.3 (SS-400FL2) (passiv) 117€
Sea Sonic Platinum Series Fanless 460W ATX 2.3 (SS-460FL2) (passiv) 125€
FSP Fortron/Source Aurum Xilenser 400, 400W ATX 2.3 (passiv) (AU-400FL) 126€
FSP Fortron/Source Aurum Xilenser 500, 500W ATX 2.3 (passiv) (AU-500FL) 138€
Sea Sonic Platinum Series Fanless 520W ATX 2.3 (SS-520FL2) (passiv) 138€


Providing your source will swap it at first request, still the Seasonic 400 (to be fair, I don't know the Aurum Xilenser, but it showed off clearly inferior to those SS in any serious reviews like JonnyGuru or Hardware Secrets).

But I stand still my previous advice: the Corsair RM 450 seems a safer (and noticeably cheaper) bet. Take also note that Corsair RM-series have far better cabling than Seasonic (FSP/Silverstone/et c.), and in a small enclosure IMHO it is *vital*.


bigl wrote:
What about the Zalman FX100? its only 63€ and could do the job with the pentium or?


I don't know that Zalman, but it would look like too big for most of mITX boards (maybe just some ASUS may accomodate it), at least WITH a discrete graphics.
Please, check its dimensions against the Thermalright HR22 ones (as we know this latter will fit for sure), and remember that a fanless cooler need a fanned case, so it's still a trade off.


bigl wrote:
I will consider this - the MSI is still good value i think (132€). The cheapest available here is the Inno3D for 124€... i dont know..


Well, with such a price, I think you have to look to no other alternative than that very MSI Gaming board.


bigl wrote:
So the current part list changed to:

Intel DH87RL 103€ mylemon.com (should be quite power efficient)


As said by Abula, you need another board.
My advice is for an ASUS H81/H87, maybe the ASRock could work equally well but, with reference to the CPU Socket placement, they have a slighly more offset, and that can be problematic in order to accomodate a large cooler (like a big tower or the proposed Zalman).


bigl wrote:
Intel Pentium G3430 79,83€ mylemon (as suggested)


As said, I made a mistake: that G3420, 56 euros, is my advice.


bigl wrote:
Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus 24€ mylemon (as suggested)


If I were you, I would buy the Accelero whether the cheapest GTX 750Ti + Accelero S1P costed as much as the MSI Gaming board alone; providing that board has a relatively low price, then I would wait to buy the cooler.
To be precise, I would try that MSI without buying the AC: just in case I were disappointed, then I would buy the Accelero.


bigl wrote:
SilverStone Nightjar Series 500W ATX 2.3 mylemon 80e (from the reviews not the best.... but cheap)


IMO, absolutely NO: at the very same price, pick the Corsair RM 450, I guess you won't be disappointed at all!

_________________
Regards,
Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:57 am 
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Posts: 567
Location: de_DE
quest_for_silence wrote:
But I stand still my previous advice: the Corsair RM 450 seems a safer (and noticeably cheaper) bet. Take also note that Corsair RM-series have far better cabling than Seasonic (FSP/Silverstone/et c.), and in a small enclosure IMHO it is *vital*.

I vote for Corsair, even though Seasonic is using the same flat cables as Corsair on their Platinum Series (mine has it). I bought a fanless CPU to reduce noise and I couldn't tell the difference from my old Seasonic SII 500W. Full fanless on a PSU is overrated, imho.
bigl wrote:
Intel DH87RL 103€ mylemon.com (should be quite power efficient)
Intel Pentium G3430 79,83€ mylemon (as suggested)
Zalman FX100 62€ mylemon (well, its passive)
MSI N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC Twin Frozr Gaming mylemon 134€
Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus 24€ mylemon (as suggested)
Kingston HyperX blu. DIMM XMP Kit 8GB 68€ mylemon (a kit should do)
Crucial M500 480GB amazon 224€ (a lot of space is welcome)
SilverStone Nightjar Series 500W ATX 2.3 mylemon 80e (from the reviews not the best.... but cheap)

The CPU, RAM and SSD are ok, the rest doesn't add up. First you should take a look at the pictures on this page of the Fractal Node review. The Intel DH87RL is a mATX mainboard, meaning that it's 244mm X 244mm. The Fractal Design Node holds a mini ITX boards, they are 170mm X 170mm.
I recommend an ASUS H81I-PLUS or an ASUS H87I-Plus depending on what features you need. Only Asus ITX boards place the CPU in the centre of the board.
With a cooler as deep as the squarish Zalman FX100 and you can't mount drives across from it. You loose four hard drive mounting points. To use these four in the Fractal node you need A CPU cooler that's not in the way. The cooler can be very tall and if the CPU socket is in the centre of the board fairly wide as well. The Noctua NH-U12P heatsink used in the Fractal Node's review is a very good choice. The Cooler Master Hyper T4 is a less expesensive alternative, but for silence you need to swap the fan.
Long graphics cards get in the way of two hard drive mounting points. The MSI is long at 250mm and it is the card with the best cooler. If it has all the display outputs you need you can buy it and test if it's silent enough for you.
750ti cards from different manufacturers have different connectors. All have DVi and HDMI(1.4a), some have VGA and some have Displayport, which is necessary to drive displays with resolutions higher than 2560X1600 with more than 30 Hertz.
Here's a matrix showing the warranty for different manufacturers with regards to changing the cooler, if you choose a card other than MSI's. (From of this thread)

_________________
Lian Li V600, Asus P77Z-M Pro, i5-3570K 4.4GHz with Scythe Orochi, 140mm Slipstream 500RPM and Mugen2 115X Bolt through kit,
Evga GTX 670 FTW+ 4GB with Thermalright Spitfire and Thermalright TY-150 500-800RPM, Seasonic 460W Platinum Fanless


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:03 am 
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Sorry, first of all I did not make clear that I changed my mind and i want to go uATX and not ITX anymore.
I have the space for a mini-midi tower if it is really silent it does not need to be in the cupboard.
I want to find a decent micro ATX case not too far in the depth (40cm max) - so

so updated partlist:

Intel DH87RL 103€ mylemon (I want because of the low power consumption I read about)
Intel Pentium G3420 57€ mylemon (thanks for the hint, this cpu is even more price/performance efficient)
MSI N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC Twin Frozr Gaming mylemon 134€
Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus 24€ mylemon
Kingston HyperX blu. DIMM XMP Kit 8GB 68€ mylemon
Crucial M500 480GB amazon 224€

Corsair RM Series RM450 450W ATX 2.31 amazon 81€
or
be quiet! Straight Power E9-CM 480W ATX 2.4 amazon 89€

Zalman FX100 62€ mylemon (+case fans... )
or
Noctua NH-U12P SE2 59€ mylemon

micro ATX Case = ?
some i came across:
BitFenix Prodigy M
AeroCool DS Blue Edition
SilverStone Temjin Evolution TJ08-E
SilverStone Fortress FT03 damped

If you have suggestions then maybe also you can give hints on good and almost not audible case fans.

quest_for_silence wrote:
I beg your pardon, but that's my bad: I wanted to write G3420 and wrote G3430; as you may know, currently this latter has a very less favourable price/performance ratio (check mylemon.at: G3420, 56 euros, G3430, 79 euros, +40% for just 100MHz more).

Added to the shopping list - looks like its the best bang for the buck.
quest_for_silence wrote:

Providing your source will swap it at first request, still the Seasonic 400 (to be fair, I don't know the Aurum Xilenser, but it showed off clearly inferior to those SS in any serious reviews like JonnyGuru or Hardware Secrets).
But I stand still my previous advice: the Corsair RM 450 seems a safer (and noticeably cheaper) bet. Take also note that Corsair RM-series have far better cabling than Seasonic (FSP/Silverstone/et c.), and in a small enclosure IMHO it is *vital*.

The micro atx case is not decided yet... and after looking at some of the fanless PSU and user opinions it turns out that they still have some child issues.
Either high pitched noise like the seasonic, poor long livety like the nightjar... The super flower seems good, but i did not find any info on C6/7 states support (is it a must?)
quest_for_silence wrote:

I don't know that Zalman, but it would look like too big for most of mITX boards (maybe just some ASUS may accomodate it), at least WITH a discrete graphics.
Please, check its dimensions against the Thermalright HR22 ones (as we know this latter will fit for sure), and remember that a fanless cooler need a fanned case, so it's still a trade off.

Probably the Noctua NH-U12P is the much better choice in a "bigger" case.
quest_for_silence wrote:

To be precise, I would try that MSI without buying the AC: just in case I were disappointed, then I would buy the Accelero.

I will try this - so i will have some fans spinning: PSU (at higher loads maybe only), Noctua fan, case fans (not decided)
boost wrote:

some have Displayport, which is necessary to drive displays with resolutions higher than 2560X1600 with more than 30 Hertz.

Did not think about this - I have a monitor which takes DVI and vga with 1920x1200, still it would not hurt to have display port.
The EVGA would have the display port at 136€ (2€ over the MSI). It has lower clock speeds, but will this really be noticeable, I dont know.


Last edited by bigl on Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:22 am 
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boost wrote:
even though Seasonic is using the same flat cables as Corsair on their Platinum Series (mine has it).


That's correct, boost, but Corsair main ones are IMHO still better:
Seasonic: Image
Corsair: Image


boost wrote:
The Noctua NH-U12P heatsink used in the Fractal Node's review is a very good choice. The Cooler Master Hyper T4 is a less expesensive alternative, but for silence you need to swap the fan.


Just FYI, this other one doesn't need a fan swap and it's up to the task: Cooler Master Hyper 412S.

At any rate, even if completely unnecessary on a dual core, in a FD 304 I still prefer Noctua/Scythe coolers, a pricey Noctua U-S or a slim Scythe Ashura/Kotetsu.

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:16 am 
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bigl wrote:
I want to find a decent micro ATX case not too far in the depth (40cm max) - so


That's not an easy task IMVHO.
There are several Silverstone & some Lian-Li, and some other else: those are the ones I know/heard of:

Model - depth

Ace Ecco 250 - 395mm
Aerocool QS-200 - 395mm
Aerocool DS - 411mm
Antec NSK-3480 - 356mm
Bitfenix Prodigy M - 359mm
Bitfenix Phenom Micro-Atx - 374mm
Lian Li V351 - 373mm (max CPU cooler height 115mm, quite large and pricey)
Lian Li V355 - 386mm (max CPU cooler height 100mm, quite large and pricey)
Lian Li V358 - 390mm (max CPU cooler height 130mm, quite large and pricey)
Silverstone FT03 - 284mm (but 487mm tall)
Silverstone PS07 - 400mm
Silverstone SG01 / SG02 - 393mm (max CPU cooler height 82mm)
Silverstone SG03 - 312mm (max CPU cooler height 82mm)
Silverstone SG04 - 347mm (max CPU cooler height 82mm)
Silverstone SG09 / SG-10 - 354mm (160mm max PSU)
Siilverstone TJ08-E - 385mm

IMHO/IME no one among them is really quiet out of the box, no one is well at cooling, but swapping fans, tinkering parts and tuning BIOS usually they may run pretty quiet.


bigl wrote:
If you have suggestions then maybe also you can give hints on good and almost not audible case fans.


I can say that any Silverstone with a 180mm Air Penetrator fan is noisy, out of the box.
So you need a motherboard or an undervolting cable (like the ULNA ones shipped with Noctua coolers) capable to drive down that fan under 350rpm.
About fan recommendations, give a read to latest SPCR round ups.


bigl wrote:
The super flower seems good, but i did not find any info on C6/7 states support (is it a must?


Nothing is a must: those are just a power saving features, more probably that not useful for notebooks, a lot less on desktops.


bigl wrote:
I will try this - so i will have some fans spinning: PSU (at higher loads maybe only), Noctua fan, case fans (not decided)


Think that: to play safe under any circumstances, you need a fan for the cooler, or an enormous cooler (check the NoFan 95 SPCR review), while about the PSU, with less than 100W DC (a dual core Haswell and a GTX 750Ti), I think a Corsair RM won't ever spin during all its life.
With the originally proposed Fractal 304 and a Noctua NH-U12 (-S preferable over -P on mITX mobos), you should be able to use just the Noctua fan as the only (slow spinning) case fan (as an intake).
If you should go for a more traditional mATX solution, probably the best bang for the bucks among the coolers is the Scythe Mugen 4.


bigl wrote:
The EVGA would have the display port at 136€ (2€ over the MSI). It has lower clock speeds, but will this really be noticeable, I dont know.


AFAIK that EVGA is far from silent. even better, it's noticeably noisier than that MSI.

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Regards,
Luca


Last edited by quest_for_silence on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:17 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
That's correct, boost, but Corsair main ones are IMHO still better:

Didn't know the 24-Pin Atx has a flat cable. The Seasonic one is one inflexible $'*#!
bigl wrote:
micro ATX Case = ?
some i came across:
BitFenix Prodigy M
AeroCool DS Blue Edition
SilverStone Temjin Evolution TJ08-E
SilverStone Fortress FT03 damped

The Bitfenix and Silverstone have their pros and cons. The Aerocool is not easy too install and the front fan is not silent.
What do you want to do?
If you want to go full passive or go with single fan computer, which is totally doable with such nimble components, I would choose the Silverstone FT03, remove the fans and put a Noctua PWM controlled 120mm fan in as the top fan.
If you want the best temps, the Bitfenix has an intake fan right beneath the CPU cooler (no need for the expensive Zalman just get a Scythe Mugen 4 or Thermalright Macho Hr-02) and an exhaust fan behind it. Installing hard drives does not look comfortable in that case, though.
If you want to add more drives and/or other components, the Temjin has you covered.

_________________
Lian Li V600, Asus P77Z-M Pro, i5-3570K 4.4GHz with Scythe Orochi, 140mm Slipstream 500RPM and Mugen2 115X Bolt through kit,
Evga GTX 670 FTW+ 4GB with Thermalright Spitfire and Thermalright TY-150 500-800RPM, Seasonic 460W Platinum Fanless


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:52 am 
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Posts: 3141
Location: ITALY
boost wrote:
Didn't know the 24-Pin Atx has a flat cable.


Even latest Enermax are going the same way.


boost wrote:
The Seasonic one is one inflexible $'*#!


Yes, I know (I own a 460 Gold, which sports the same cable): it's too short and thick.


boost wrote:
The Bitfenix and Silverstone have their pros and cons. The Aerocool is not easy too install and the front fan is not silent.
What do you want to do?
If you want to go full passive or go with single fan computer, which is totally doable with such nimble components, I would choose the Silverstone FT03, remove the fans and put a Noctua PWM controlled 120mm fan in as the top fan.
If you want the best temps, the Bitfenix has an intake fan right beneath the CPU cooler (no need for the expensive Zalman just get a Scythe Mugen 4 or Thermalright Macho Hr-02) and an exhaust fan behind it. Installing hard drives does not look comfortable in that case, though.
If you want to add more drives and/or other components, the Temjin has you covered.


I would add that for a *real* server also the newest Silverstone DS-380 may worth to mention (along with the Fractal 304) pairing it with a Scythe Big Shuriken 2:

Image

while for a more gaming oriented rig probably an Antec Solo II is probably a rather rational option, providing the size is not an issue (you won't close a Solo II in a cupboard, as it's enough quiet on its own): http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1218-page4.html

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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:50 pm 
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Some comments about your update build.

bigl wrote:
Intel DH87RL 103€ mylemon (I want because of the low power consumption I read about)

micro ATX Case = ?
some i came across:
BitFenix Prodigy M
AeroCool DS Blue Edition
SilverStone Temjin Evolution TJ08-E
SilverStone Fortress FT03 damped

If you have suggestions then maybe also you can give hints on good and almost not audible case fans.
Uniting these three subjects as for me are very much tied up. The intel mobo should be a very good choice in terms of efficiency, and while their fan control is nothing spectacular, still is pretty decent for creating a quiet setup, look into my HTPC build on my sig, where you can use PWM fans and the Intel mobo and if you chose good fans you will be able to drop them on bios to very low levels, in my case i was able to drop the Scythe Kama Flex2 PWM to around 300-350rpms, making it virtually inaudible, even though i have 5 fans running on it. If you are set on the mobo (i think its the best choice in efficiency), then i would drop the TJ08-E as you will need to undervolt the frontal fan a lot to get it to quiet, and i dont think you need it nor its where the intel mobo can help you at, but i still like the layout and size for micro atx build, so im going to suggest you go with Silverstone Tek Micro-ATX Mini-DTX, Mini-ITX Mini Tower Plastic with Aluminum Accent Computer Cases PS07B (Black), drop the silverstone 120mm fans for 3x Noctua NF-S12A PWM, the fans are very similar to my KAMAFLEX2 PWM, in terms of range of control, they can be drop to 250rpms on fanxpert2, i think you should be able to drop them very low with the intel mobo aswell, you just need to play around with the bios. I'll leave you a graph of the fan ran on PWM on fanXpert2 for you to see,

Image

If you decide to go this route, the NF-S12A come with PWM Y splitter on the box, use it to connect the two frontal fans to the RED FONTAL FAN header on the top of the board (will be bottom in your PS07 beaucse of the reverse layout), the RED REAR FAN Header that its located on the bottom (in your case on the top) use the extension that comes with the NF-S12A and route to the back of the case to the hole for the 8pin CPU header so you can connect the fan, if you feel its too hard to do it while mounting the motherboard, then use two extensions (one comes per fan so you should have enough), this way you can leave one on the fan and one on the mobo and much easier to to route it this way. Connect the CPU Fan to the WHITE CPU FAN Header, should be very close by no need for anything extra, just enter the bios and start playing with the % and temp thresholds.

bigl wrote:
MSI N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC Twin Frozr Gaming mylemon 134€
Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus 24€ mylemon
I like a lot what the GTX750ti is offering, specially the MSI version, i would just get the card without the Accelero, and test it, see if you really think you need a fanless cooler. Upgrading it later on is not rocket science but you risk ruining it and you don't know if it will fit good, and weather the vram can be fine fanless... lots of things to consider before upgrading, so for this i would get the card first and test it, you can always buy the cooler later and install it if you feel like it.

bigl wrote:
Zalman FX100 62€ mylemon (+case fans... )
or
Noctua NH-U12P SE2 59€ mylemon
I would take noctua cooler over the Zalman any day of the week, that said, the intel mobo has the PCIe 16x on the second slot, allowing you to chose any cooler you want, really any twin tower or whatever cooler you feel its better. I would go with either the Scythe Mugen 4 CPU Cooler: Scythe Strikes Back or Noctua NH-U14S Slim 140mm Tower Cooler. Either of the two comes with good included PWM fans that can be controlled very nicely with the intel bios and both can be driven to inaudible levels, i would give the slight edge to the U14S in terms of cooling, but the Mugen 4 is cheaper in most cases, so both are really good choices, and should handle your cpu at very low rpms easily.

bigl wrote:
Corsair RM Series RM450 450W ATX 2.31 amazon 81€
or
be quiet! Straight Power E9-CM 480W ATX 2.4 amazon 89€
I have read good things about be quiet and corsair rm seems like a new silent psu in town, overall i think either should be fine, i like a little more Corsair out being cheaper, semi passive, fully modular, but either should be a good choice.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:03 am 
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Posts: 8
current shopping list:

Intel DH87RL 103€ mylemon
Intel Pentium G3420 57€ mylemon
Scythe Mugen 4 38€ mylemon
MSI N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC Twin Frozr Gaming mylemon 134€
Kingston HyperX blu. DIMM XMP Kit 8GB 68€ mylemon
Crucial CT480M500SSD3 interne SSD 480GB (1024MB Cache, mSATA, MLC 20nm) 239€
Corsair RM Series RM450 450W ATX 2.31 amazon 81€
2x Noctua NF-S12A PWM (depending on the case decision)

Changes:
- Scythe Mugen 4 looks cheap and good eventough Noctua is a company from my country (austria :) )
- The accelero S1 i might buy later if needed as suggested.
- Also i have decided for the suggested corsair power supply.
- Another change is the MSATA version of the cruicial m500, reason being there are 5 sata connectors on the motherboard and i might decide in the future to make a raid 5 with 4-5x4tb. saying this the requirement for the case has also changed now.

So lets see which cases are in the closer look section:

Bitfenix Phenom Micro-Atx - 374mm
It looks cool, but it has no 5 1/4 bay - still an odd can be added on usb anytime.
Size: 250x330x374mm, offers 5x3,5" 86€ mylemon
I did not find the weight of the case

Silverstone PS07 - 400mm
5x3,5" and weights 5,2kg 75€ mylemon (damped version for 96€)
Size: 210 x 374 x 400 mm dustfilters, a more traditional design with lot finesse inside

Lian Li V358 - 390mm
It really looks classy and has 6x3,5", but its a bit wide and pricey
The Mugen4 fits here, 140€ mylemon, (WxHxD): 324 x 390 x 286 mm, 4,2kg (very light)

Silverstone TJ08-E - 385mm
5x3,5" + 2x5.25" 210x374x385mm, 5,3kg 87€ mylemon, dustfilter, but somehow i like the PS07 more

Winner from above is the damped silverstone PS07 so far..

So the questions, if the width of the case does not matter and i would want to have 4 decoupled hdds which mini case would be the winner?

Antec Solo II has only internal 3x3,5"
SilverStone Precision PS09 damped version 170x359.8x406.6mm 4x3,5", only 3,34kg weight and at 36€ cheap, but subpar in the reviews.. no decoupling of hdds
Fractal Design Define Mini damped version 210x395x490mm 6x3,5" 9,5kg quite heavy - 85€ mylemon


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:35 am 
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I didnt know you were going with so many mechanical hdds, well the title should have tip me into a server, but then again there are some that built a one mechanical hdd server, either way with so many hdds, the PS07 / TJ08-E gets a little complicated as the hdds are in front of the cpu cooler, this favors asymmetrical coolers more, like for example Thermalright HR02 Macho as it installs flush to the CPU socket and grows backwards so there only thing going above the cooler (toward the hdds) is the fan.

I would probably just chose the Fractal Define Mini, it will allow 6 hdds, so your 4 desired will be taken for + 1 ssd, even giving you 1 more slots for the future, the cable management should be easier and you can still go for the mugen 4, i would still change fans if you are planning on controlling on the bios for the Noctua NF-S12A PWM, as an alternative in case you have access to them, they should be cheaper and still very similar range of operation, Scythe Glidestream SY1225HB12M-P, its practically the same fan the Mugen 4 comes with, but in US is not yet available, maybe in your country it is.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:55 am 
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Upon looking into the motherboard layout i saw it comes with msata slot, you should try to researach if this port is shared with one of the 5 sata ports (my guess is not), if its not shared, then an ssd like Samsung Electronics 840 EVO 250GB mSATA 0.85-Inch Solid State Drive MZ-MTE250BW or Crucial M500 240GB mSATA Internal Solid State Drive CT240M500SSD3, would allow you install 5 mechanical 4tb hdds =), but up to you to crosscheck if the msata port is shared or not.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:04 am 
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for now i have 2x4tb wd external hdds with usb3 to connect..

what if the msata port is shared? what is the downside?

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/desktop-board-dh87rl-brief.pdf

One full length PCIe Mini Card slot supporting
mSATA Solid-State Drive capability

Six SATA 6.0Gb/s ports (1 port via mSATA
connector)


Last edited by bigl on Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:55 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:39 am 
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Location: Guatemala
bigl wrote:
what if the msata port is shared? what is the downside?
Ok shared means for example that the sata port 1 is the same as the msata, so you can use one or the other, this is when they are shared, my guess is they are not shared, as usually the Haswell H87 chipsets come with 6 sata ports as standard, and the H87RL mobo has only 5 sata ports, so im guessing the 6 sata port (that its missing) its reserved for the msata port. But other manufacturers share the msata with one of the ports but they also have all 6 ports, so if you use msata one gets disabled. So it depends on how the motherboard was design.

Either way i would go with msata regardless if its shared or not, out of 3 reasons,
1) If its shared, you still have 4 sata ports out of the 5, so you didn't lose anything.
2) If its not shared, you gain a sata port so you can add another hdd later on =)
3) Less cables, the msata will take power from the mobo and will be one less sata cable routed.

But i still recommend you try to find out if its shared or not.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:54 am 
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bigl wrote:
from the manual:
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/desktop-board-dh87rl-brief.pdf

One full length PCIe Mini Card slot supporting
mSATA Solid-State Drive capability

Six SATA 6.0Gb/s ports (1 port via mSATA
connector)
Good find, so now you know you have 6, 5 you can use for your storage drives and just get an msata for your os/spps and install it on the mobo =), the two i linked above should give you really good performance for the money, the crucial seems really good for $129 compared to the samsung that its $200, try to look if they are available to you and what prices are they.

I'll leave you a picture of what it would look like on your setup,

Image

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:14 am 
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bigl wrote:
Bitfenix Phenom Micro-Atx - 374mm


The Prodigy has a better cooling prowess, but both don't look very good at hosting lots of drives (providing you have lots of them: and just two are not "lots of").


bigl wrote:
So the questions, if the width of the case does not matter and i would want to have 4 decoupled hdds which mini case would be the winner?


I would look to any case with enough 5,25" bay using some Tiche or NoiseMagic adapters: the SPCR artcle on the home server (tower) has a good list inside.


bigl wrote:
Antec Solo II has only internal 3x3,5"


I guess you misinterpreted the specs: actually the Antec Solo II can host eight (8) drives, as you can use both suspension and the drive sleds simultaneously for five (5) drives in total in the dedicated cage:

Image


bigl wrote:
Fractal Design Define Mini damped version 210x395x490mm 6x3,5" 9,5kg quite heavy - 85€ mylemon


Personally I like it a lot, and prefer it over any Silverstone.

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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:22 am 
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wow, great picture :)

for the mainboard i have listed the "Intel DH87RL" mainly for power consumption reasons. A german magainze (c´t) built a home server based on that board with low powerconsumption. As alternative they have listed the "ASRock H87M". It is a lot cheaper here with 64€ vs 103€ (DH87RL). it also has 6 sata ports (no msata), but only 2 ram slots (no problem), but the pcie 3.0 x16 slot is the first and not second like on the intel board. would i get issues with the scythe mugen 4? is the board a good choice?

For the SSDs:
Samsung SSD 840 EVO 500gb 2,5/msata price here: 292€/257€ (340€ for the pro)
Crucial m500 480gb 2,5/msata: 219€/239€

well i prefer more space over performance here so crucial wins for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:44 pm 
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bigl wrote:
the pcie 3.0 x16 slot is the first and not second like on the intel board. would i get issues with the scythe mugen 4? is the board a good choice?


With reference to the PCIE slot, there should not be any problem at all (not to mention that AFAIK you don't need a PCIE 3.0 16x slot for a current graphic card).

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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:45 pm 
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ok i will order the following parts:

Asrock H87M pro4 (has 4 ram slots over the non pro and proven to be as power efficient as intel boards)
Intel Pentium G3420 57€ mylemon
Scythe Mugen 4 38€ mylemon
MSI N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC Twin Frozr Gaming mylemon 134€
G.Skill Sniper DIMM Kit 8GB, DDR3U-1600, CL9-9-9-24 (F3-12800CL9D-8GBSR2) 78€ (low voltage for low power cons. and its compatible)
Crucial CT480M500SSD3 internal SSD 480GB 2,5"
Corsair RM Series RM450 450W ATX 2.31 amazon 81€
Fractal design define mini (i will try the fans which come with the tower, they should be silent)

all in all 746€

+thanks for all your hints and help!


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:14 am 
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bigl wrote:
G.Skill Sniper DIMM Kit 8GB, DDR3U-1600, CL9-9-9-24 (F3-12800CL9D-8GBSR2) 78€ (low voltage for low power cons. and its compatible)


If you mind, I guess the Ares counterpart, instead of the Sniper, should be a better pick (no useless heatspreader).


bigl wrote:
Fractal design define mini (i will try the fans which come with the tower, they should be silent)


Those fans are fairly quiet, but not silent, not even at 5V volts: I think you won't be totally disappointed, but you will judge them by yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:19 am 
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i dont find ares here with low voltage, they start with 1,5V:

http://geizhals.at/?cat=ramddr3&asuch=A ... =2216_DDR3

more precise:
http://geizhals.at/?cat=ramddr3&asuch=A ... 600#xf_top

I read this asrock is picky on ram so it should be one from the list...
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?c ... 87M%20Pro4


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 Post subject: Re: Home Server with casual gaming
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:34 am 
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bigl wrote:
i dont find ares here with low voltage, they start with 1,5V:

http://geizhals.at/?cat=ramddr3&asuch=A ... =2216_DDR3

more precise:
http://geizhals.at/?cat=ramddr3&asuch=A ... 600#xf_top


I stand corrected, the 1.35V with low heatspreader are the Aegis and ECO series (from G.Skill), not the ARES.
I mean, like this one: F3-1600C11D-8GISL / F3-1600C11D-16GISL (I guess they are on ther ASRock QVL).


bigl wrote:
I read this asrock is picky on ram so it should be one from the list...
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?c ... 87M%20Pro4


It's a prudential measure which is better always to respect: so, you're right.

Anyway, those Sniper may work pretty well, they are just less "compatible" than Aegis/ECO with reference to CPU heatsink/fan (which is a "secondary" prudential measure, IME). So, if you mind, you can go for those Sniper, safely.

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