Hi everyone,

Warning: this is going to be a big post! If you don't want to read everything, the lists should contain the most important informations/questions I have.

I am new to this quite awesome site and forum and finally registered to get your optinion on a system which I am struggeling on, the longer I think about it.
I know that my plan is quite similar to this one.
First of all, I am using a 2560 x 1600 monitor. Besides simulations, programming and image editing the future computer will be used for surfing, office, movies and gaming. So the choice of CPU and RAM are final.
I plan on running the computer 24/7. In my current appartement it will stand about 1.5-2.0 meteres away from my head when I am sleeping, 1.0-1.5 meters when I am working with it. So a very quiet system on (near)idle should be the goal.
My game of choice is DotA 2 which is based on the Source engine. I would like to play some games like Skyrim, Bioshock Infinite, Far Cry 2 + 3, Crysis 1-3 and maybe Battlefield 4. But since I did only install 4 other games (Portal 2, Amnesia, Slender Gothic 2) the last 4 years (due to my like 10 year old machine) I am used to only focus on DotA 2. So to be honest, a High-End GPU is wanted but not needed at all. I aim on getting constantly 60 fps in DotA (limited by VS). The only other game i am 100% sure to play is HL³... Probably Source Engine 2 and probably/hopefully low sys. req. because of that.
Since I don't need SLI/CF, a soundcard, more than one 2.5" drive or any other extension cards, i consider all ATX and µATX cases (I've seen) a huge waste of space.
So i kind of fell in love with the idea of a mini ITX case.

Now, to sum up;

My needs:

• 24/7 in sleeping room
• at least constant 60 fps on a 1600p monitor while gaming (DotA 2)
• very quiet in idle/office
• non-disturbing while gaming (headset or music at "normal" volume)
• W-LAN is needed in my current app. as well as in future apps. Most mITX boards have W-LAN onboard.
• only one 2.5" drive is going to be installed inside the case

My "wanteds":

• as small as possible (aiming mITX)/no waste of space inside the case
• ready for the lates games
• very minimalistic case: if possible, no lights on the case and no ports visible on the front of the case (kinda Node 605)

My current list of items:

• CPU: Intel i-7 4770K (undervolted and maybe -clocked, future years probably overclocked, delided IHS if necessary)
• RAM: 16 GB, probably low profile, maybe low voltage, 1600MHz or more, CL8-8-8-24 for example
• SSD: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB or Crucial m500 256GB
• PSU: some high efficientcy PSU, maybe modular, 450W-550W
• GPU: for High-End Gaming: R9 290 (the most silent model), it has the best price-performance ratio imho
• Cooling: depends on the sizeof the case but 100% air cooling and probably huge
• MB: also depeding on the size of the case

Space is a factor i can ignore at all. I could live with a more or less big tower like the Fractal Design Define R4 as well as with a cute small case like the Fractal Design Node 304 or even the Fractal Design Node 605 which are the cases I fell in love with.
I see the advantage of a small case in positioning: under or on (for me NOT an option, on my desk there is no space for a case) a desk, besides it, or even on a cupboard (my preferred idea, if m-ITX). But there comes something, I am asking myself all the time: Since most mITX cases have fans on both sides, they need a huge footprint, like +10cm on each side, so they can "breath", right? Maybe, when it comes down to narrow spaces, a "huge" tower like the R4 has its advantage that it only needs space in front and behind of it?
Are there any well ventilated mITX cases which only have a fan in the (bottom) front and ony the back and on the top and no side ventilation?
Is it even possible to get acceptable temps in such small cases with such potent hardware? Since I've only seen water cooled i7 CPU solutions I could imagine that even the CPU temperature could run out of control in such a case?

Again, summed up, my questions:

1. Is such potent hardware with my needs (temps and volume at idle and gaming) possible with air cooling a mITX case?
2. If I consider DotA 2 my only game I am going to play resulting in a weaker GPU (which one?) is it more realistic to fit this system into a mITX case?
3. Am I 100% better off with a µATX or ATX case?
4. Are there any cases, mITX, µATX or ATX
   1. I am better off, since I don't need lots of HDD or expension card space?
   2. which are pure minimalistic (no lights, no visible ports in the front) with superb ventilation and sound qualities?

Or the question I am struggeling ever since: is it worth it, building a (nearly) high-end/gaming computer into a mITX case (footprint, temps, volume)?


Well, I hope I didn't miss any relevant questions in this post and that you haven't left in boredom.
I would be glad about every opinion and advice for my questions. Maybe I will finally make a decision with your help.

myselphabet

Thank you very much for the tip with ASUS and its CPU layout. That might open some heavy cooler solutions.

It seems there is no really quiet High-End GPU @ idle anyway...

I am still unsure about the possibilities in the Node 304; a GTX 760 (or even 780 as you suggested) and a 4770K are a lot of heat to get rid of, I would like some opinions on that.

I would like some opinions on that. ATX is still considered, with the R4 PCGH Edition being my favourit. Problem: the slots for the two fans on the top aren't there anymore. Could that be a problem for ventilation? I get it: less openings -> less noise; but the top is, where hot air could flee perfectly, even without fans...

I saw the news on the refresh, but the problem is, the chips have to be avaiable, the upcomming maimboards have to be, too. With that much of a waiting, I would guess 2 months) there will be the news for the next step from Intel... as always "wait for the next gen" is a never ending circle I considered it and I deny it, I hope

24/7 in sleeping room

Do you think you can do a test bench setup? You won't hear it unless you have your ear up to the fan.

Dimension is 35 x 44 x 40 cm so it's quite compact.

@ AbdulWell
The GTX 780 would cost me freaking 580€ here; I was nearly chocking, as i was ready to pay 366€ for the "most quiet" R9 290.
3k+ hours on DotA2 and maybe 40 hours of other games (and the fact that I am getting older -> less interest in (other) games) just seems to close the page, whether I play new games or not. {I think I will NOT\HL³}
Sadly, the only test of DotA 2 on such high resolutions I found was on Tom's Hardware:

So the GTX 760 should sufficient, the GTX 750 Ti might be, but, what I like the most at the moment, the super cost effective R7 Radeon 265 should be enough, too!
Hot 4770K: well, I am up to delide it, if necessary; kinda risky, kinda fun(ny)

The NCASE M1 got my attention. Since I am from Germany I would have to import this really beautiful and small case and the price.... I still consider it a valid option, since the footprint is really small. I would like a mITX case more tower style or desktop style than cubic style, which, sadly, most of them are.

@ quest_for_silence
I just saw your post as I am/was writing, so some redundancy may occur (my realization of GPU power in one case). The i-7 is a maxture of wanting the best CPU I can offer and the use of it in photoshop, matlab, simulations and programming.

Would anyone recommend to go Node 605 or is this only a case for true HTPC with low heat producing hardware?

Any suggestions for a tower design mITX case.
Any suggestions for a mITX case which is "non-perforated", only Fans on the front/bottom and rear/top?

I haven't read the whole thread, but the 4770K is overkill for gaming with that graphics card, and overclocking won't make any difference.
Use that money for a faster GPU instead if you want to spend money.

The 3 year old 2600K is still a very fast CPU compared to the 4770K. In this review you can see that even though they're using a lower resolution AND a faster GPU than what you're looking at,
the choice of CPU makes almost no difference. (Combine that with the fact that 2600K clocks higher and it starts to look really ugly...)
http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsec ... 64&page=13

Now I'm not telling you to get a 2600K, but maybe a 4670K. OCing just isn't for me at least, you have fun for a couple of days and then you get bored. It's much better to invest in a better GPU and not having to upgrade anytime soon.
No OC > less heat > smaller heatsinks > smaller cases.

On the other hand, the 750 Ti is a very good choice, maybe save the money for a NCASE?
If you can settle with a 750 Ti, the system will draw less than 150 W. MSI makes one quiet model at least. Combine this with a 4670 CPU, Silverstone SFX 300 W with a semi passive psu and maybe a Cooltek U2 case (smaller than a 304) and you won't have to pay much for any of the components, and no monster heatsink is needed.

Whatever you do, put the most effort in finding a quiet graphics card, or at least a decent separate cooler that fits the case you want.
In the end it will most likely be the noisiest component. I know that some Nvidia cards can stop the fans when in idle.
With the PSU fan stopped when in idle, no HDD, and a slow spinning fan for the CPU, you'd better have a quiet graphics card.

One of my personal favorites is the Cooltek Coolcube, half the size of a 304 and smaller than a NCASE.

The upcoming Silverstone ML07 may be an alternative, similar to Raven Z.

The 605 is 25 l, here you have a list of cases smaller than that with room for dual slot cards. Make sure there's room for the graphics card you want.

http://geizhals.de/?cat=gehatx&xf=1002_ ... 8_2#xf_top

Silverstone is about to launch new SFX PSU's with semi passive fans, 500 and 600 Watt.

[..] Unless you are going to consider "tower" the smallest Lian-Li and Cooltek/Jonsbo/Rosewill mITX offerings, I'm sorry, but I'm not aware of such a design: the only mITX tower enclosures reasonably sized are the already quoted Ncase M1 and Evga Hadron; I would add the Inwin 901 but it's pretty rare and expensive.
To be fair, tower-style is to be regarded also the new Raven Z from Silverstone, but it looks like pretty ugly in my humble opinion, unless you may like the "nouvelle-steam-vague".

Anyway, set aside the M1, the other tower enclosures seem somehow close to the smallest mATX offerings, such as the Antec NSK3480 or the Silverstone SG03 and its derivatives: so YMMV with reference to your needs.

I haven't read the whole thread, but the 4770K is overkill for gaming with that graphics card, and overclocking won't make any difference.
Use that money for a faster GPU instead if you want to spend money.
[..] Now I'm not telling you to get a 2600K, but maybe a 4670K. OCing just isn't for me at least, you have fun for a couple of days and then you get bored. It's much better to invest in a better GPU and not having to upgrade anytime soon.
No OC > less heat > smaller heatsinks > smaller cases.

On the other hand, the 750 Ti is a very good choice, maybe save the money for a NCASE?
If you can settle with a 750 Ti, the system will draw less than 150 W. MSI makes one quiet model at least. Combine this with a 4670 CPU, Silverstone SFX 300 W with a semi passive psu (Edit: a regular ATX PSU makes more sense here), and maybe a Cooltek U2 case (smaller than a 304) and you won't have to pay much for any of the components, and no monster heatsink is needed.

Whatever you do, put the most effort in finding a quiet graphics card, or at least a decent separate cooler that fits the case you want.
In the end it will most likely be the noisiest component. I know that some Nvidia cards can stop the fans when in idle.
With the PSU fan stopped when in idle, no HDD, and a slow spinning fan for the CPU, you'd better have a quiet graphics card.

One of my personal favorites is the Cooltek Coolcube, half the size of a 304 and smaller than a NCASE.
The upcoming Silverstone ML07 may be an alternative, similar to Raven Z.

The 605 is 25 l, here you have a list of cases smaller than that with room for dual slot cards. Make sure there's room for the graphics card you want.

http://geizhals.de/?cat=gehatx&xf=1002_ ... 8_2#xf_top

Silverstone is about to launch new SFX PSU's with semi passive fans, 500 and 600 Watt.

I like the Cooltek U2/Jonsbo case. It has potential to be a nice small quiet case, mostly because it can fit a full sized air cooler and has intake vents for the GPU.

Yes, I plan on purchasing a 4670K, not for the purpouse of OC but rather underclock it even.

One more question: I was told, the distance from vent -> wall should be >1/2 of the radius of the fan; e.g. 120mm fan -> at least 30mm. Is this a good indicator? If so, even "perforated" cases wouldn't be such a problem and I wouldn't doubt a mITX case such much anymore.

PS: THIS is just crazy small, something I would aim for. Still powerful, I'm just doubting it may be really quiet near idle

THIS is just crazy small, something I would aim for. Still powerful, I'm just doubting it may be really quiet near idle

The TU100 in the video is 11.9 l, while the Cooltek Coolcube I linked to is 10,1 l.
Unlike the TU100, the Coolcube has a decent intake for the GPU in the bottom, cost €30 less, and it also supports regular ATX PSUs.

Mats, even if the Lian Li TU-series is probably a stylish, sub-par choice, any cube - I guess - is not an option:

Is it crazy of me to suggest that CPU cooler <100mm height are too loud/cannot get rid of the heat in such a small system?

I bet there are quieter cards, but often length above 220mm requiring a supporting enclosure.

It all depends on the CPU, of course. I don't think it will be a problem with a 4670 that uses maybe 40 W at most.
For instance, the AXP-200 is only 60 mm tall but works very well.
As soon as you add a 760 (160 W) or a 290X (260 W) you may run into heat issues.

I would make two chambers for a small case like the Coolcube, with the lower one directing all the heat from the graphics card to the vents in the back and the side so it won't reach the CPU or PSU.
I would also have a duct to the graphics card fans from the bottom intake, to prohibit the hot air from circulating inside the case.

Consider the GTX 750Ti, perhaps with aftermarket or modded coolers.

Check SPCR review of its first cousin, the SG-07: 35dB with a video card which has a TDP similar to the GTX 760.
Again, it's feasible, but more probably that not it won't run quiet.

The only proven design for a wannabe quiet build.

An interesting design but absolutely unproven.
SPCR had tested several small Lian Li enclosures: usually the ones with acceptable thermals and acoustics sported a large front intake (Q08, V354), and this one (along with the Q28) miss it. YMMV.

It seems pretty awesome, very quiet, idle and load. But really the absolute minimum for me. As written, I like the GTX 760 and R9 270X more, bute they produce more heat, too.

So you are doubting its ventilation? Damn, I have to search a little more and hope I find a convenient review. It seems like a pretty nice enclosure; also big GPU and CPU heatsink possibilities, PSU under the mainboard resulting in a tower style case. But the way it is getting closes.. I would fear that a lot of cables are blocking a good air conditioning.

You know the trade off: you can't have silence, power and small form factor all together, but with a 750 you can shrink the overall dimensions more easily, and probably you might lower the noise. So the raw power is not on par with other candidates, but still plentyful for DoTA 2 at 60fps.

Speaking about trade-offs, you might look also at the PowerColor R9 270 SCS3: it's not as powerful as a 270X/GTX 760 but it won't give noise on its own, and it's very compact with reference to those two. About rig's overall noise, YMMV.

Cable messing is addressable carefully choosing the PSU: something like a Corsair RM (with a full set of modular flat cabling) is the way to go. About the Q33, owning a couple of Lian Li enclosures with closed front (A05), I know they give below average results, thermal-wise: so yes, I guess the Q33 will strive to cool quietly the more demanding hardware, but it's only my not-so-educated guess.

Maybe a 12mm fan could get ontop of the card but I will have to be sure about it to fit in a case of choice. With a additional fan it is considered 3 slot which makes it complicated.

And since they shouldn't run at their limit, they also shouldn't consume that much power and produce the heat, right?

Still, I have to see the maximum power consumption of these cards, maybe I see they don't differe that much compared to the GTX 750 Ti; if they will... the choice might be clear.

The SG08B(-LITE) ist just ugly form the side and can only handle a 147mm (non-LITE 117mm) CPU heatsink, which is kind of a turn off to me.

The U3 is rather beautiful except for the silver power button (on the black (for me) front panel); also I doubt the conditions for the airflow.

Is it crazy of me to suggest that CPU cooler <100mm height are too loud/cannot get rid of the heat in such a small system?

RAM: Crucial Ballistix Tactical LP DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR3L-1600, CL8-8-8-24, low profile
I just took the cheapest low profile 16GB kit, timings and clock should be sufficient?

SSD: Crucial M500 240GB
Maybe I shout go for a Samsung 840 EVO/Pro 250GB? If so, why?

As for the CPU cooler, it is kind of hard to find a Noctua NH-U14S . Is there any list out there, which contains fitting cooler? (I have to admit, I didn't google it, yet)