It is currently Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:28 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: quiet mITX with mid range hardware
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 22
This thread was originally called the idea of mITX and a huge GPU, but this idea partially changed after some posts, ideas and getting to reason. :)
Now it is a midrange build, with an Intel i5 as CPU and something, ranging from R7 265 - R9 270X oder GTX 750Ti to GTX 760 as GPU. (At least 60fps @ 2560x1600 in DotA 2.)
Everything should fit in a small mITX case and be really quiet in idle/surfing and quiet while gaming. Room temps.: 20°C - 35°C in summer.
Usually, my last post contains every information up to date, I tend to post huge. :P

Original Post:

myselphabet wrote:
Hi everyone,

Warning: this is going to be a big post! If you don't want to read everything, the lists should contain the most important informations/questions I have. ;)

I am new to this quite awesome site and forum and finally registered to get your optinion on a system which I am struggeling on, the longer I think about it.
I know that my plan is quite similar to this one.
First of all, I am using a 2560 x 1600 monitor. Besides simulations, programming and image editing the future computer will be used for surfing, office, movies and gaming. So the choice of CPU and RAM are final.
I plan on running the computer 24/7. In my current appartement it will stand about 1.5-2.0 meteres away from my head when I am sleeping, 1.0-1.5 meters when I am working with it. So a very quiet system on (near)idle should be the goal.
My game of choice is DotA 2 which is based on the Source engine. I would like to play some games like Skyrim, Bioshock Infinite, Far Cry 2 + 3, Crysis 1-3 and maybe Battlefield 4. But since I did only install 4 other games (Portal 2, Amnesia, Slender Gothic 2) the last 4 years (due to my like 10 year old machine) I am used to only focus on DotA 2. So to be honest, a High-End GPU is wanted but not needed at all. I aim on getting constantly 60 fps in DotA (limited by VS). The only other game i am 100% sure to play is HL³... Probably Source Engine 2 and probably/hopefully low sys. req. because of that. :P
Since I don't need SLI/CF, a soundcard, more than one 2.5" drive or any other extension cards, i consider all ATX and µATX cases (I've seen) a huge waste of space.
So i kind of fell in love with the idea of a mini ITX case.

Now, to sum up;

My needs:

  • 24/7 in sleeping room
  • at least constant 60 fps on a 1600p monitor while gaming (DotA 2)
  • very quiet in idle/office
  • non-disturbing while gaming (headset or music at "normal" volume)
  • W-LAN is needed in my current app. as well as in future apps. Most mITX boards have W-LAN onboard.
  • only one 2.5" drive is going to be installed inside the case

My "wanteds":

  • as small as possible (aiming mITX)/no waste of space inside the case
  • ready for the lates games
  • very minimalistic case: if possible, no lights on the case and no ports visible on the front of the case (kinda Node 605)

My current list of items:

  • CPU: Intel i-7 4770K (undervolted and maybe -clocked, future years probably overclocked, delided IHS if necessary)
  • RAM: 16 GB, probably low profile, maybe low voltage, 1600MHz or more, CL8-8-8-24 for example
  • SSD: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB or Crucial m500 256GB
  • PSU: some high efficientcy PSU, maybe modular, 450W-550W
  • GPU: for High-End Gaming: R9 290 (the most silent model), it has the best price-performance ratio imho
  • Cooling: depends on the sizeof the case but 100% air cooling and probably huge
  • MB: also depeding on the size of the case

Space is a factor i can ignore at all. I could live with a more or less big tower like the Fractal Design Define R4 as well as with a cute small case like the Fractal Design Node 304 or even the Fractal Design Node 605 which are the cases I fell in love with.
I see the advantage of a small case in positioning: under or on (for me NOT an option, on my desk there is no space for a case) a desk, besides it, or even on a cupboard (my preferred idea, if m-ITX). But there comes something, I am asking myself all the time: Since most mITX cases have fans on both sides, they need a huge footprint, like +10cm on each side, so they can "breath", right? Maybe, when it comes down to narrow spaces, a "huge" tower like the R4 has its advantage that it only needs space in front and behind of it?
Are there any well ventilated mITX cases which only have a fan in the (bottom) front and ony the back and on the top and no side ventilation?
Is it even possible to get acceptable temps in such small cases with such potent hardware? Since I've only seen water cooled i7 CPU solutions I could imagine that even the CPU temperature could run out of control in such a case?

Again, summed up, my questions:

  1. Is such potent hardware with my needs (temps and volume at idle and gaming) possible with air cooling a mITX case?
  2. If I consider DotA 2 my only game I am going to play resulting in a weaker GPU (which one?) is it more realistic to fit this system into a mITX case?
  3. Am I 100% better off with a µATX or ATX case?
  4. Are there any cases, mITX, µATX or ATX
    1. I am better off, since I don't need lots of HDD or expension card space?
    2. which are pure minimalistic (no lights, no visible ports in the front) with superb ventilation and sound qualities?

Or the question I am struggeling ever since: is it worth it, building a (nearly) high-end/gaming computer into a mITX case (footprint, temps, volume)?


Well, I hope I didn't miss any relevant questions in this post and that you haven't left in boredom. :D
I would be glad about every opinion and advice for my questions. Maybe I will finally make a decision with your help.

myselphabet


Last edited by myselphabet on Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1900
Location: Guatemala
Since you found that thread, im not going to repeat again what its posted there. Personally i dont think AMD is a good choice for something looking a quiet setup on the higher end, at least on this gen, even the MSI Twin Frozr cards are well above what MSI achived on this gen with Nvidia, that said, i think Prolimatech MK-26 can easily control it, but this would close you the chance of going for a mini ITX setup, but this is up to you.

Dota2 is not a high demanding game, i have played it for a month or so before quitting it, and it was fine running on my GTX780 @ 2560x1440, i dont think you need much, but for me when it matters the FPS is when fights happen and everybody is using their spells/abilities where a higher end card might matter, but again depends on each, usually mobas and mmos dont require the same FPS like 1st person shooters, but again this is something that its dependant to each person and desires.

If you a really value size, i think you can do a pretty nice small build
Case: Fractal Design Node 304, reviewed by SPCR and got the editors choice
PSU: Corsair RM550, very nice price for semi fanless PSU that its still 160mm and modular
Motherboard: ASUS H87I-PLUS, small motherboard with very nice CPU postion to fit a big tower cooler, up to you if its worth the ASUS Z87I-DELUXE or ASUS MAXIMUS VI IMPACT
CPU: Intel Core i7 4770
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S, this would be my choice on Node 305 swaping the back fan for NF-A14 PWM and using the Y splitter to power both fans from the CPU_FAN socket.
GPU: MSI GTX780ti/780/770/760 whatever you feel would fufill your FPS for your games. MSI by far seems to be quietest, and its a 2 slot cooler that should fit the node 304 fine.

Now if you are set on AMD for the GPU and willing to go into ATX,
Case: Fractal Design Define R4
Case Fans: Antec True Quiet 140
PSU: Corsair RM650
Motherboard: ASUS Z87-PLUS, up to you if its worth the difference toward ASUS MAXIMUS VI HERO
CPU: i7 4770K
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 4, another editors choice from SPCR.
GPU: AMD R9 290
GPU Cooler: Prolimatech MK-26 + 2x Prolimatech Vortex Slim 140

As a suggestion, if you can wait 20 days, Intel to launch is Haswell refresh products May 10th 2014, and go for the i7 4790, its rummored to have improved thermal paste and some say the vrm is moved back to the motherboard (not sure if this is true), but people are expecting this refresh to give the same temps sandy bridge had, and better overclocking, the prices should be very similar, even manufacturers starting to slip some showing of their new mobos, for example MSI Photo's Haswell Refresh-motherboard for gamers

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 22
Yes, still i opend this thread because the OP of the other one changed his mind to a µATX case which opens up space with all its benefits. :)

Well, a quad slot solution which means about 100€ more in cash, losing the warranty and... giving up 4 slots is kinda insane in my option/for my purpouse. So i am just getting comfortable with the though of giving up the high end GPU (no matter in which case). It seems there is no really quiet High-End GPU @ idle anyway... :(
That being written I searched for some tests and found out that DotA 2 will run on at least 60 fps (74 iirc, the weaker GPUs tested went under 50 fps -> NoGo) on a GTX 660. So a GTX 760 or maybe a R9 280 might be sufficient I think. (Not so sure about the AMD products there, maybe even the 270 is enough?)
Tomorrow i will google and find out, which cooling solutions are the most quiet and coolest out there.

Thank you very much for the tip with ASUS and its CPU layout. That might open some heavy cooler solutions.

I saw the news on the refresh, but the problem is, the chips have to be avaiable, the upcomming maimboards have to be, too. With that much of a waiting, I would guess 2 months) there will be the news for the next step from Intel... as always "wait for the next gen" is a never ending circle ;) I considered it and I deny it, I hope :D

I am still unsure about the possibilities in the Node 304; a GTX 760 (or even 780 as you suggested) and a 4770K are a lot of heat to get rid of, I would like some opinions on that. ATX is still considered, with the R4 PCGH Edition being my favourit. Problem: the slots for the two fans on the top aren't there anymore. Could that be a problem for ventilation? I get it: less openings -> less noise; but the top is, where hot air could flee perfectly, even without fans...

myselphabet


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1900
Location: Guatemala
myselphabet wrote:
Thank you very much for the tip with ASUS and its CPU layout. That might open some heavy cooler solutions.
Asus and EVGA seems the only ones doing centered socket, MSI, Gigabyte among others are doing right next to the PCIe, and Asrock is doing oposite to the PCIe, the asrock is also a decent choice for a wide and tall cooler, but the asus align better with the back case fan of the node 304.

myselphabet wrote:
It seems there is no really quiet High-End GPU @ idle anyway... :(
Well the MSI GTX780Ti seems to be pretty decent, 25db idle / 30db load TechPowerUp MSI GTX 780 Ti Gaming 3 GB, not dead silent but acceptable for such a high end gpu. But if you find a lower card would end up better, check MSI GTX 760 TwinFrozr Gaming 2 GB and MSI GTX 750 Ti Gaming 2 GB

myselphabet wrote:
I am still unsure about the possibilities in the Node 304; a GTX 760 (or even 780 as you suggested) and a 4770K are a lot of heat to get rid of, I would like some opinions on that.
Well its not like the node 304 is poorly ventilated, its 2x92mm in and 1x140 out. Now the i7 4770k in my case is a very hot running cpu, but only on prime95, in gaming i never ever have reached 70C. The only issue i see on the node304 is that the side is open so if you chose a noisy gpu you probably will notice it.

Quote:
I would like some opinions on that. ATX is still considered, with the R4 PCGH Edition being my favourit. Problem: the slots for the two fans on the top aren't there anymore. Could that be a problem for ventilation? I get it: less openings -> less noise; but the top is, where hot air could flee perfectly, even without fans...
Personally i would have preferred my R4 with solid side and solid top, no openings, while the moduvents work fine, i feel Fractal could have given more rigidity to the top if they didn't place the openings, the only complain i have about the case, but i do understand that there are lots of people that use AIO coolers and having those openings opens their market to a lot of customers.

myselphabet wrote:
I saw the news on the refresh, but the problem is, the chips have to be avaiable, the upcomming maimboards have to be, too. With that much of a waiting, I would guess 2 months) there will be the news for the next step from Intel... as always "wait for the next gen" is a never ending circle ;) I considered it and I deny it, I hope :D
This is up to you, i just brought it cause my 4770K runs hot, and if i could get a cooler running cpu would mean less need for cooling, so less noise, but to early to say how this new refersh will perform, maybe its just a marketing relaunch.... we will not know until we see site reviews.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:58 am
Posts: 28
Do you think you can do a test bench setup? You won't hear it unless you have your ear up to the fan.

Image

Dimension is 35 x 44 x 40 cm so it's quite compact.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:49 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: UK
Welcome to SPCR!
myselphabet wrote:
24/7 in sleeping room

I ask this pretty much every time: Why are you leaving your computer on all of the time? How important is whatever it is that you are running on your computer all of the time? Maybe you don't pay for your electricity usage but this is not environmentally friendly.

For another case suggestion, take a look at the recently reviewed NCASE M1. Good by SPCR standards and very small for what it contains. Only thing is that for PSU you will most likely be limited to SFX size although the modular Silverstone PSU as reviewed works quite well with it.

ohhgourami wrote:
Do you think you can do a test bench setup? You won't hear it unless you have your ear up to the fan.

I think different people have different standards on noise and for some people the exposed buzzing would be too much. Aesthetics are also a personal opinion and for some people (me included) it's just too ugly and requires too much explaining if ever you have visitors - nothing is a more powerful contraceptive than having to explain why it is your computer isn't even properly put together.

ohhgourami wrote:
Dimension is 35 x 44 x 40 cm so it's quite compact.

That's 61.6 litres! That's huge! Common SFF systems are 20 litres and under!

_________________
Silverstone SG03B: E8200, Asus P5E-VM HDMI, 2Gb RAM, Leadtek 9600GT+S1 rev. 2, Samsung 500Gb, Seasonic X-400, 2x Akasa 120mm, Scythe Zipang 2 fanless


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3016
Location: ITALY
Just a small bunch of personal notes.

Whether your games are Dota2 or similar ones, you won't ever need anything more powerful than a 7850 to run it at 60fps.
So, if silence is your primary concern, that could be a good news, as you may run it with a single GTX 750Ti (so a 60w card) passively cooled (3 slots, Accelero S1 Plus).

About AMD vs Nvidia, if silence at low loads is your primary concern, I don't agree with Abula (who has his own reason to not stick with Radeons), even if current/upcoming GeForce lineup is more efficient (and perhaps more performing).
IME/IMHO Radeon cards fans can be software controlled through SpeedFan, and moreover you can lower the idle speed (noise), something you can't do with Nvidia offerings.

About the CPU, more probably that not you won't ever use/need the 8 computational threads of an i7: IMO it's a waste of money and heat (noise). If you go for Radeon's driver, probably you shouldn't need a quad core also, while for a Nvidia card those two extra cores may turn out useful.

Summarizing, I bet you can play Dota2 satisfactorirly even with a Pentium G3420 and GTX 750Ti, so with about 100W of heat, something you can cool silently with ease, but I suspect you won't accept such an option.

Eventually, if you wanna go for a mITX setup, I'd look to some cute enclosures: mainly Ncase M1, Cooltek (I'm sorry, but I mispelled it) W1 and EVGA Hadron Air.
In this cases, you'd better to stay under 250W overall TDP (if you wanna run it cool quietly).

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Last edited by quest_for_silence on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 22
@ Abdula
The GTX 780 would cost me freaking 580€ here; I was nearly chocking, as i was ready to pay 366€ for the "most quiet" R9 290.
3k+ hours on DotA2 and maybe 40 hours of other games (and the fact that I am getting older -> less interest in (other) games) just seems to close the page, whether I play new games or not. {I think I will NOT\HL³}
Sadly, the only test of DotA 2 on such high resolutions I found was on Tom's Hardware:
Image
So the GTX 760 should sufficient, the GTX 750 Ti might be, but, what I like the most at the moment, the super cost effective R7 Radeon 265 should be enough, too! :)
Hot 4770K: well, I am up to delide it, if necessary; kinda risky, kinda fun(ny) :P

@ ohhgourami
I saw this in the other thread, but I just want/need a case around my hardware ;)

@ edh
File server/torrents, W-Lan spot, lazyness at least a combination of them.
The NCASE M1 got my attention. Since I am from Germany I would have to import this really beautiful and small case and the price.... I still consider it a valid option, since the footprint is really small. I would like a mITX case more tower style or desktop style than cubic style, which, sadly, most of them are.

@ quest_for_silence
I just saw your post as I am/was writing, so some redundancy may occur (my realization of GPU power in one case). The i-7 is a maxture of wanting the best CPU I can offer and the use of it in photoshop, matlab, simulations and programming.
So my system is not at all 100% gaming orientated, but also for more or less serious working. As you guessed right, I won't accept such an option. Not only because of my ignorance... ;)

I will look into some other mITX cases, as written, the NCASE is really sexy, the NODE 605 is supersexy and can even host a ATX board.
My problem is that the "brutto" footprint of most mITX cases is much larger than a ATX tower because of the space they need to breath. Every mITX case I've consideres so far has fans/holes EVERYwhere. I would love a mITX case which only has opening in the front and bottom so suck are in and at the top and read to blow air out; so I have a narrow "brutto" width/footprint. Otherwise the advantage in positioning will become a disadvantage in my opinion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1900
Location: Guatemala
myselphabet wrote:
@ AbdulWell
The GTX 780 would cost me freaking 580€ here; I was nearly chocking, as i was ready to pay 366€ for the "most quiet" R9 290.
3k+ hours on DotA2 and maybe 40 hours of other games (and the fact that I am getting older -> less interest in (other) games) just seems to close the page, whether I play new games or not. {I think I will NOT\HL³}
Sadly, the only test of DotA 2 on such high resolutions I found was on Tom's Hardware:
Image
So the GTX 760 should sufficient, the GTX 750 Ti might be, but, what I like the most at the moment, the super cost effective R7 Radeon 265 should be enough, too! :)
Hot 4770K: well, I am up to delide it, if necessary; kinda risky, kinda fun(ny) :P
I think yous should be fine even with the GTX750Ti,

Techspot Dota 2 Benchmarks

Image

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:49 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: UK
myselphabet wrote:
The NCASE M1 got my attention. Since I am from Germany I would have to import this really beautiful and small case and the price.... I still consider it a valid option, since the footprint is really small. I would like a mITX case more tower style or desktop style than cubic style, which, sadly, most of them are.

The NCASE is brand new and only in limited order numbers but I am sure that if it is popular this will expand. Right now you can't even buy one! Maybe local suppliers will hopefully pick up on the interest and order direct from LianLi. I think it is a fantastic niche between the really tiny MiniITX cases that you can't put any normal components in and the typical 20 litre SFF cases which are bigger than needed.

_________________
Silverstone SG03B: E8200, Asus P5E-VM HDMI, 2Gb RAM, Leadtek 9600GT+S1 rev. 2, Samsung 500Gb, Seasonic X-400, 2x Akasa 120mm, Scythe Zipang 2 fanless


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3016
Location: ITALY
myselphabet wrote:
@ quest_for_silence
I just saw your post as I am/was writing, so some redundancy may occur (my realization of GPU power in one case). The i-7 is a maxture of wanting the best CPU I can offer and the use of it in photoshop, matlab, simulations and programming.


AFAIK hyperthreading is totally useless with Matlab, Photoshop, and most of programming tools.

Just as a very personal feeling, it would seem you're weighted by sort of apodictic expectations, if not actual prejudices, particularly on processing power and case design: perhaps you've your own good reasons, but up to now they look like absolutely unclear.
Good luck for your building.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 22
@ Abula
Awesome! A realtivly new benchmark, perfect. :)

@ edh
Yes, sadly it is unavailable at the moment, some kind of pricy and the shipping will take a lot of time I think :( Maybe a future option, still, a very beautiful case.

@ quest_for_silence
I checked and you are absolutely right, MatLab doesn't support SMT by default, Photoshop and Lightroom only in some rare cases and I won't be programming with focus on parallelism in the near future/maybe at all. The only thing missing might be the 8MB of cache... But will it be noticable? Probably not.

Finally I seem to get to reason, no big GPU no oversized CPU.

Would anyone recommend to go Node 605 or is this only a case for true HTPC with low heat producing hardware?

Any suggestions for a tower design mITX case.
Any suggestions for a mITX case which is "non-perforated", only Fans on the front/bottom and rear/top?

The only case I found that seems to meet these conditions was the SilverStone Fortress FT03-Min which is ugly and maybe a little bit too big.

myselphabet


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3016
Location: ITALY
myselphabet wrote:
Would anyone recommend to go Node 605 or is this only a case for true HTPC with low heat producing hardware?


I think there should be similar products at least from Antec, Cooltek and Silverstone, but the Node 605 looks like a really good enclosure to build a quiet HTPC.


myselphabet wrote:
Any suggestions for a tower design mITX case.
Any suggestions for a mITX case which is "non-perforated", only Fans on the front/bottom and rear/top?


Unless you are going to consider "tower" the smallest Lian-Li and Cooltek/Jonsbo/Rosewill mITX offerings, I'm sorry, but I'm not aware of such a design: the only mITX tower enclosures reasonably sized are the already quoted Ncase M1 and Evga Hadron; I would add the Inwin 901 but it's pretty rare and expensive.
To be fair, tower-style is to be regarded also the new Raven Z from Silverstone, but it looks like pretty ugly in my humble opinion, unless you may like the "nouvelle-steam-vague".

Anyway, set aside the M1, the other tower enclosures seem somehow close to the smallest mATX offerings, such as the Antec NSK3480 or the Silverstone SG03 and its derivatives: so YMMV with reference to your needs.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:54 am
Posts: 3011
Location: Sweden
I haven't read the whole thread, but the 4770K is overkill for gaming with that graphics card, and overclocking won't make any difference.
Use that money for a faster GPU instead if you want to spend money.

The 3 year old 2600K is still a very fast CPU compared to the 4770K. In this review you can see that even though they're using a lower resolution AND a faster GPU than what you're looking at,
the choice of CPU makes almost no difference. (Combine that with the fact that 2600K clocks higher and it starts to look really ugly...)
http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsec ... 64&page=13

Now I'm not telling you to get a 2600K, but maybe a 4670K. OCing just isn't for me at least, you have fun for a couple of days and then you get bored. It's much better to invest in a better GPU and not having to upgrade anytime soon.
No OC > less heat > smaller heatsinks > smaller cases.

On the other hand, the 750 Ti is a very good choice, maybe save the money for a NCASE?
If you can settle with a 750 Ti, the system will draw less than 150 W. MSI makes one quiet model at least. Combine this with a 4670 CPU, Silverstone SFX 300 W with a semi passive psu (Edit: a regular ATX PSU makes more sense here), and maybe a Cooltek U2 case (smaller than a 304) and you won't have to pay much for any of the components, and no monster heatsink is needed.

Whatever you do, put the most effort in finding a quiet graphics card, or at least a decent separate cooler that fits the case you want.
In the end it will most likely be the noisiest component. I know that some Nvidia cards can stop the fans when in idle.
With the PSU fan stopped when in idle, no HDD, and a slow spinning fan for the CPU, you'd better have a quiet graphics card. :D

One of my personal favorites is the Cooltek Coolcube, half the size of a 304 and smaller than a NCASE.

The upcoming Silverstone ML07 may be an alternative, similar to Raven Z.

The 605 is 25 l, here you have a list of cases smaller than that with room for dual slot cards. Make sure there's room for the graphics card you want.

http://geizhals.de/?cat=gehatx&xf=1002_ ... 8_2#xf_top

Silverstone is about to launch new SFX PSU's with semi passive fans, 500 and 600 Watt.


Last edited by Mats on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:58 am
Posts: 28
Mats wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread, but the 4770K is overkill for gaming with that graphics card, and overclocking won't make any difference.
Use that money for a faster GPU instead if you want to spend money.

The 3 year old 2600K is still a very fast CPU compared to the 4770K. In this review you can see that even though they're using a lower resolution AND a faster GPU than what you're looking at,
the choice of CPU makes almost no difference. (Combine that with the fact that 2600K clocks higher and it starts to look really ugly...)
http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsec ... 64&page=13

Now I'm not telling you to get a 2600K, but maybe a 4670K. OCing just isn't for me at least, you have fun for a couple of days and then you get bored. It's much better to invest in a better GPU and not having to upgrade anytime soon.
No OC > less heat > smaller heatsinks > smaller cases.

On the other hand, the 750 Ti is a very good choice, maybe save the money for a NCASE?
If you can settle with a 750 Ti, the system will draw less than 150 W. MSI makes one quiet model at least. Combine this with a 4670 CPU, Silverstone SFX 300 W with a semi passive psu and maybe a Cooltek U2 case (smaller than a 304) and you won't have to pay much for any of the components, and no monster heatsink is needed.

Whatever you do, put the most effort in finding a quiet graphics card, or at least a decent separate cooler that fits the case you want.
In the end it will most likely be the noisiest component. I know that some Nvidia cards can stop the fans when in idle.
With the PSU fan stopped when in idle, no HDD, and a slow spinning fan for the CPU, you'd better have a quiet graphics card. :D

One of my personal favorites is the Cooltek Coolcube, half the size of a 304 and smaller than a NCASE.

The upcoming Silverstone ML07 may be an alternative, similar to Raven Z.

The 605 is 25 l, here you have a list of cases smaller than that with room for dual slot cards. Make sure there's room for the graphics card you want.

http://geizhals.de/?cat=gehatx&xf=1002_ ... 8_2#xf_top

Silverstone is about to launch new SFX PSU's with semi passive fans, 500 and 600 Watt.


I like the Cooltek U2/Jonsbo case. It has potential to be a nice small quiet case, mostly because it can fit a full sized air cooler and has intake vents for the GPU.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 22
quest_for_silence wrote:
[..] Unless you are going to consider "tower" the smallest Lian-Li and Cooltek/Jonsbo/Rosewill mITX offerings, I'm sorry, but I'm not aware of such a design: the only mITX tower enclosures reasonably sized are the already quoted Ncase M1 and Evga Hadron; I would add the Inwin 901 but it's pretty rare and expensive.
To be fair, tower-style is to be regarded also the new Raven Z from Silverstone, but it looks like pretty ugly in my humble opinion, unless you may like the "nouvelle-steam-vague".

Anyway, set aside the M1, the other tower enclosures seem somehow close to the smallest mATX offerings, such as the Antec NSK3480 or the Silverstone SG03 and its derivatives: so YMMV with reference to your needs.


EVGA and IN WIN are both with a side window, so in my eyes a NoGo, NCASE ofc still a case of dreams, maybe in a few months. The Raven Z is indeed some ugly case :D

Mats wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread, but the 4770K is overkill for gaming with that graphics card, and overclocking won't make any difference.
Use that money for a faster GPU instead if you want to spend money.
[..] Now I'm not telling you to get a 2600K, but maybe a 4670K. OCing just isn't for me at least, you have fun for a couple of days and then you get bored. It's much better to invest in a better GPU and not having to upgrade anytime soon.
No OC > less heat > smaller heatsinks > smaller cases.


Yes, I plan on purchasing a 4670K, not for the purpouse of OC but rather underclock it even. The 4770K would be more of a prestige for me than of actual use.

Mats wrote:
On the other hand, the 750 Ti is a very good choice, maybe save the money for a NCASE?
If you can settle with a 750 Ti, the system will draw less than 150 W. MSI makes one quiet model at least. Combine this with a 4670 CPU, Silverstone SFX 300 W with a semi passive psu (Edit: a regular ATX PSU makes more sense here), and maybe a Cooltek U2 case (smaller than a 304) and you won't have to pay much for any of the components, and no monster heatsink is needed.


I am starting to fall in love with the 750 Ti, BUT since I am playing with "How small can I go?", the MSI GTX 760 Mini ITX Gaming got my attentions with its cute 170mm length. So it can fit even into the smalles of small enclosures.
In the end, the most quiet video card my be the key factor anyway, meaning, GTX 750 Ti, 760, Radeon 265, 270 and maybe 270X are still possibilities.

Mats wrote:
Whatever you do, put the most effort in finding a quiet graphics card, or at least a decent separate cooler that fits the case you want.
In the end it will most likely be the noisiest component. I know that some Nvidia cards can stop the fans when in idle.
With the PSU fan stopped when in idle, no HDD, and a slow spinning fan for the CPU, you'd better have a quiet graphics card. :D


Yes, I completely agree with you in this point.

Mats wrote:
One of my personal favorites is the Cooltek Coolcube, half the size of a 304 and smaller than a NCASE.
The upcoming Silverstone ML07 may be an alternative, similar to Raven Z.

The 605 is 25 l, here you have a list of cases smaller than that with room for dual slot cards. Make sure there's room for the graphics card you want.

http://geizhals.de/?cat=gehatx&xf=1002_ ... 8_2#xf_top

Silverstone is about to launch new SFX PSU's with semi passive fans, 500 and 600 Watt.


ohhgourami wrote:
I like the Cooltek U2/Jonsbo case. It has potential to be a nice small quiet case, mostly because it can fit a full sized air cooler and has intake vents for the GPU.


I was surprised when I saw the german tounge sides. ;) Saw some of these while on my (still ongoing) "How small can I go?" quest. I will read some reviews after I've written this post. The idea of a really small enclosure is becomming more and more powerful. :)

Guys, thank you very much for the imput and getting me to reason (in case of the enclosure into a quest I might get totally crazy with :P ).
I will post any new ideas or questions, but first I have to finally inform myself about cases and GPU (fans).

One more question: I was told, the distance from vent -> wall should be >1/2 of the radius of the fan; e.g. 120mm fan -> at least 30mm. Is this a good indicator? If so, even "perforated" cases wouldn't be such a problem and I wouldn't doubt a mITX case such much anymore.

myselphabet

PS: THIS is just crazy small, something I would aim for. :D Still powerful, I'm just doubting it may be really quiet near idle :(


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3016
Location: ITALY
myselphabet wrote:
Yes, I plan on purchasing a 4670K, not for the purpouse of OC but rather underclock it even.


You do not need a K SKU to undervolt.


myselphabet wrote:
One more question: I was told, the distance from vent -> wall should be >1/2 of the radius of the fan; e.g. 120mm fan -> at least 30mm. Is this a good indicator? If so, even "perforated" cases wouldn't be such a problem and I wouldn't doubt a mITX case such much anymore.


Never heard of such an indication.


myselphabet wrote:
PS: THIS is just crazy small, something I would aim for. :D Still powerful, I'm just doubting it may be really quiet near idle :(


Lian-Li TU100 & TU200 have sub-par acoustics and thermals: neat & cute, but not so useful IMVHO.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:54 am
Posts: 3011
Location: Sweden
myselphabet wrote:
THIS is just crazy small, something I would aim for. :D Still powerful, I'm just doubting it may be really quiet near idle :(

The TU100 in the video is 11.9 l, while the Cooltek Coolcube I linked to is 10,1 l.
Unlike the TU100, the Coolcube has a decent intake for the GPU in the bottom, cost €30 less, and it also supports regular ATX PSUs.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3016
Location: ITALY
Mats wrote:
The TU100 in the video is 11.9 l, while the Cooltek Coolcube I linked to is 10,1 l.
Unlike the TU100, the Coolcube has a decent intake for the GPU in the bottom, cost €30 less, and it also supports regular ATX PSUs.

Mats, even if the Lian Li TU-series is probably a stylish, sub-par choice, any cube - I guess - is not an option:

myselphabet wrote:

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 22
quest_for_silence wrote:
Mats wrote:
[...]

Mats, even if the Lian Li TU-series is probably a stylish, sub-par choice, any cube - I guess - is not an option:

myselphabet wrote:


In the end it seems, I cannot go around cubes... anything close to a tower has a side panel with a window or is just big.

Some video cards, which only fit into the bigger cases are definitly quieter than the MSI GTX 760 Mini ITX Gaming, like the MSI R9 270X Gaming (260mm length), which seems to be the most quiet R9 270X out there at the moment. I bet there are quieter cards, but often length above 220mm requiring a supporting enclosure.

I have a lot of cases now which I consider as choices; I would like to hear some opinions of you guys, maybe some excellent ones, or really bad ones. I will again read through some reviews (already did ;) ) and maybe I can narrow down the list later on.

Cases ≤ 15L
  1. Cooltek U2 - Favourit
  2. Cooltek Cooltube - Design
    • CPU: 80mm
    • GPU: 185mm
    • Vol.: 10,1L
  3. SilverStone SG08B-LITE - Design
    • CPU: 147mm (non-LITE only 117mm?!)
    • GPU: 310mm
    • Vol.: 14,8L

Cases ≤ 20L
  1. Cooltek U3; µATX - Favourit
    • CPU: 175mm
    • GPU: 260mm
    • Vol.: 20L
  2. Cooltek Coolcube Maxi; µATX - Design
    • CPU: 120mm
    • GPU: 260mm
    • Vol.: 18,8L
  3. SilverStone FT03-MINI - Considered
    • CPU: 78mm
    • GPU: 255mm
    • Vol.: 17,7L
  4. Fractal Design Node 304 - Favourit
    • CPU: 165mm
    • GPU: 310mm
    • Vol.:19,5L
  5. Lian Li PC-Q11 - Considered
    • CPU: 80mm
    • GPU: 240mm
    • Vol.: 17L
  6. Lian Li PC-Q33 - Favourit
    • CPU: 180mm
    • GPU: 220mm
    • Vol.: 18L
  7. Lian Li PC-Q25 - Design
    • CPU: 80mm
    • GPU: 320mm
    • Vol.: 20L

Cases ≥ 20L
  1. Cooltek W1 - Design
    • CPU: 215mm
    • GPU: 320mm
    • Vol.: 31,2L
  2. Fractal Design Node 605; ATX - Design
    • CPU: 125mm
    • GPU: 280mm
    • Vol.: 24,3L
  3. Lian Li PC-Q28 - Favourit
    • CPU: 100mm
    • GPU: 290mm
    • Vol.: 23,9L
  4. Lian Li PC-Q35 - Design
    • CPU: 95mm
    • GPU: 300mm
    • Vol.: 29,2L

Favourit: These are beautiful and can be assembled with big CPU coolers.

Design: Minimalistic design, but always with flaws in my eyes: often only supporting CPU coolers to 80mm height, sometimes not "perfect" design.

Considered: Ugly, really... But nearly tower design, the fans of the FT03B-Mini are perfectly positioned in my opinion.

I don't expect you guys to look into all of these enclosures, but as written before, if you know something special about one of these, feel free to let me know. :)

Is it crazy of me to suggest that CPU cooler <100mm height are too loud/cannot get rid of the heat in such a small system?

myselphabet


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:54 am
Posts: 3011
Location: Sweden
myselphabet wrote:
Is it crazy of me to suggest that CPU cooler <100mm height are too loud/cannot get rid of the heat in such a small system?

It all depends on the CPU, of course. I don't think it will be a problem with a 4670 that uses maybe 40 W at most.
For instance, the AXP-200 is only 60 mm tall but works very well.
As soon as you add a 760 (160 W) or a 290X (260 W) you may run into heat issues.

I would make two chambers for a small case like the Coolcube, with the lower one directing all the heat from the graphics card to the vents in the back and the side so it won't reach the CPU or PSU.
I would also have a duct to the graphics card fans from the bottom intake, to prohibit the hot air from circulating inside the case.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the idea of mITX and a huge GPU
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3016
Location: ITALY
myselphabet wrote:
I bet there are quieter cards, but often length above 220mm requiring a supporting enclosure.

Consider the GTX 750Ti, perhaps with aftermarket or modded coolers.


myselphabet wrote:
Cases ≤ 15L
  1. Cooltek U2 - Favourit


Thermals look good, given the size, but I suspect it requires a noticeable forced airflow: check hardwareluxx data on the larger U3, I wouldn't bet it run quiet with a graphics >70-80W.


myselphabet wrote:
  1. SilverStone SG08B-LITE - Design
    • CPU: 147mm (non-LITE only 117mm?!)
    • GPU: 310mm
    • Vol.: 14,8L


Check SPCR review of its first cousin, the SG-07: 35dB with a video card which has a TDP similar to the GTX 760.
Again, it's feasible, but more probably that not it won't run quiet.


myselphabet wrote:
  1. SilverStone FT03-MINI - Considered
    • CPU: 78mm
    • GPU: 255mm
    • Vol.: 17,7L


The regular FT03 isn't particularly quiet nor cool, I won't bet the Mini could be better, not even by mistake.
The original FT03 also has some quality issues (check the two SPCR reviews about it).


myselphabet wrote:
  1. Fractal Design Node 304 - Favourit
    • CPU: 165mm
    • GPU: 310mm
    • Vol.:19,5L


The only proven design for a wannabe quiet build.


myselphabet wrote:
  1. Lian Li PC-Q33 - Favourit
    • CPU: 180mm
    • GPU: 220mm
    • Vol.: 18L


An interesting design but absolutely unproven.
SPCR had tested several small Lian Li enclosures: usually the ones with acceptable thermals and acoustics sported a large front intake (Q08, V354), and this one (along with the Q28) miss it. YMMV.


myselphabet wrote:
Cases ≥ 20L


Personally I'd like to try the Jonsbo W1 (Cooltek, Rosewill), but it's unproven as well as the above quoted Lian Li Q33.

Anyway, if you're going over 20lt, consider a regular mATX tower, like the Antec NSK-3480: it isn't fancy, it isn't cheap, but it's just about 24-25lt and it will accept almost everything you'd like to throw in, moreover it has fair thermals so that you can build a very quiet rig with regular high power parts in it.
I must add it requires tweaking and that it's a pain building inside it, despite the larger dimensions (it's an old school design), but the overall result may well Worth, IMHO.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: quiet mITX with mid range hardware
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 22
Mats wrote:
It all depends on the CPU, of course. I don't think it will be a problem with a 4670 that uses maybe 40 W at most.
For instance, the AXP-200 is only 60 mm tall but works very well.
As soon as you add a 760 (160 W) or a 290X (260 W) you may run into heat issues.

I would make two chambers for a small case like the Coolcube, with the lower one directing all the heat from the graphics card to the vents in the back and the side so it won't reach the CPU or PSU.
I would also have a duct to the graphics card fans from the bottom intake, to prohibit the hot air from circulating inside the case.

Since I like the GTX 760 and the R9 270X most I decided to throw the really small enclosures out and focus on 15L-20L enclosures. If necessary I will try to get a better airflow but it would be better and good for my lazyness to have a case I won't have to modify (a lot).

quest_for_silence wrote:
Consider the GTX 750Ti, perhaps with aftermarket or modded coolers.

It seems pretty awesome, very quiet, idle and load. But really the absolute minimum for me. As written, I like the GTX 760 and R9 270X more, bute they produce more heat, too.

quest_for_silence wrote:
Check SPCR review of its first cousin, the SG-07: 35dB with a video card which has a TDP similar to the GTX 760.
Again, it's feasible, but more probably that not it won't run quiet.

I found that review and I will read it again. On some pictures the SG-08B (LITE) looks quite ugly, on some it looks awesome.

quest_for_silence wrote:
myselphabet wrote:
  1. Fractal Design Node 304 - Favourit
    • CPU: 165mm
    • GPU: 310mm
    • Vol.:19,5L

The only proven design for a wannabe quiet build.

And in the top 4 right now. Quiet big, just under 20L, enough to get a big GPU and a big CPU cooler into it. Just a very nice option to me right now.

quest_for_silence wrote:
myselphabet wrote:
  1. Lian Li PC-Q33 - Favourit
    • CPU: 180mm
    • GPU: 220mm
    • Vol.: 18L
[/list][/list]

An interesting design but absolutely unproven.
SPCR had tested several small Lian Li enclosures: usually the ones with acceptable thermals and acoustics sported a large front intake (Q08, V354), and this one (along with the Q28) miss it. YMMV.

So you are doubting its ventilation? Damn, I have to search a little more and hope I find a convenient review. It seems like a pretty nice enclosure; also big GPU and CPU heatsink possibilities, PSU under the mainboard resulting in a tower style case. But the way it is getting closes.. I would fear that a lot of cables are blocking a good air conditioning. :(

I also rejected every case above 20L and am focusing on the Top 4 following (mainly for me as a notepad :P ):

  1. SilverStone SG08B-LITE
    • CPU: 147mm (non-LITE only 117mm?!)
    • GPU: 310mm
    • Vol.: 14,8L
  2. Cooltek U3; µATX
    • CPU: 175mm
    • GPU: 260mm
    • Vol.: 20L
  3. Fractal Design Node 304
    • CPU: 165mm
    • GPU: 310mm
    • Vol.:19,5L
  4. Lian Li PC-Q33
    • CPU: 180mm
    • GPU: 220mm
    • Vol.: 18L


Since I cannot find any test for the R7 265 with other cooling solution than the AMD reference design. So it is out of the picture. I have several very quiet R9 270X, GTX 760 and the most quiet GTX 750 Ti. I guess they don't seem to differ very much. If anyone is interested:


Wow, I have just such difficulties to decideand am still posting huge posts, sorry guys...

myselphabet


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: quiet mITX with mid range hardware
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3016
Location: ITALY
myselphabet wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
Consider the GTX 750Ti, perhaps with aftermarket or modded coolers.

It seems pretty awesome, very quiet, idle and load. But really the absolute minimum for me. As written, I like the GTX 760 and R9 270X more, bute they produce more heat, too.


You know the trade off: you can't have silence, power and small form factor all together, but with a 750 you can shrink the overall dimensions more easily, and probably you might lower the noise. So the raw power is not on par with other candidates, but still plentyful for DoTA 2 at 60fps.

Speaking about trade-offs, you might look also at the PowerColor R9 270 SCS3: it's not as powerful as a 270X/GTX 760 but it won't give noise on its own, and it's very compact with reference to those two. About rig's overall noise, YMMV.


myselphabet wrote:
So you are doubting its ventilation? Damn, I have to search a little more and hope I find a convenient review. It seems like a pretty nice enclosure; also big GPU and CPU heatsink possibilities, PSU under the mainboard resulting in a tower style case. But the way it is getting closes.. I would fear that a lot of cables are blocking a good air conditioning. :(


Cable messing is addressable carefully choosing the PSU: something like a Corsair RM (with a full set of modular flat cabling) is the way to go. About the Q33, owning a couple of Lian Li enclosures with closed front (A05), I know they give below average results, thermal-wise: so yes, I guess the Q33 will strive to cool quietly the more demanding hardware, but it's only my not-so-educated guess.


myselphabet wrote:


As said, I'd look also to some slightly cheaper plain vanilla R9 270s, in order to see if there's anyting suitable for: set aside the above quoted SCS3, mainly to ASUS DC-II, MSI TF-IV and XFX DD ones.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: quiet mITX with mid range hardware
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 22
quest_for_silence wrote:
You know the trade off: you can't have silence, power and small form factor all together, but with a 750 you can shrink the overall dimensions more easily, and probably you might lower the noise. So the raw power is not on par with other candidates, but still plentyful for DoTA 2 at 60fps.

Speaking about trade-offs, you might look also at the PowerColor R9 270 SCS3: it's not as powerful as a 270X/GTX 760 but it won't give noise on its own, and it's very compact with reference to those two. About rig's overall noise, YMMV.

I am afraid because the 750Ti has an avarage of 60fps, sadly I didn't find the minimum fps. That's kind of important in teamfights and they tend to drop right there...
But the 750Ti is really low power, low cost and low heat combined, surely strongly considered by me.
The passiv R9 270... Well, I would need a strong airflow in the case for this card since it's passivly cooled. Maybe a 12mm fan could get ontop of the card but I will have to be sure about it to fit in a case of choice. With a additional fan it is considered 3 slot which makes it complicated.
I would feel really comfortable with a GTX 760 or a R9 270(X) in my system to be absolutely sure about the minimum fps. ;)
And since they shouldn't run at their limit, they also shouldn't consume that much power and produce the heat, right?
Still, I have to see the maximum power consumption of these cards, maybe I see they don't differe that much compared to the GTX 750 Ti; if they will... the choice might be clear.

quest_for_silence wrote:
Cable messing is addressable carefully choosing the PSU: something like a Corsair RM (with a full set of modular flat cabling) is the way to go. About the Q33, owning a couple of Lian Li enclosures with closed front (A05), I know they give below average results, thermal-wise: so yes, I guess the Q33 will strive to cool quietly the more demanding hardware, but it's only my not-so-educated guess.

Also no clear reviews found, so I drop it. I tend to the Node 305 because it has a awesome space/hardwarefitting ratio; but still unsure about it (who would've guessed :( ).
The SG08B(-LITE) ist just ugly form the side and can only handle a 147mm (non-LITE 117mm) CPU heatsink, which is kind of a turn off to me.
The U3 is rather beautiful except for the silver power button (on the black (for me) front panel); also I doubt the conditions for the airflow.
Like you've written, the Node 304 is the only proven design, it is my favourit out of the 3 right now.
  1. Fractal Design Node 304
    • CPU: 165mm
    • GPU: 310mm
    • Vol.:19,5L
  2. Cooltek U3; µATX
    • CPU: 175mm
    • GPU: 260mm
    • Vol.: 20L
  3. SilverStone SG08B-LITE
    • CPU: 147mm (non-LITE only 117mm?!)
    • GPU: 310mm
    • Vol.: 14,8L


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: quiet mITX with mid range hardware
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3016
Location: ITALY
myselphabet wrote:
Maybe a 12mm fan could get ontop of the card but I will have to be sure about it to fit in a case of choice. With a additional fan it is considered 3 slot which makes it complicated.


Man, keep it easy: you don't want a GTX 750Ti, you don't want a passive card, so stop searching and pick the cheapest/coolest/quietest 270/760 you may find, as there are no further alternatives, atm.
By the way, inside a 304 there's plenty of space for a 2.5/3 slot solution, and broadly speaking you may give a look for some ideas there.


myselphabet wrote:
And since they shouldn't run at their limit, they also shouldn't consume that much power and produce the heat, right?


Well, no, I wouldn't expect any noticeable power savings: they will dump a considerable amount of heat under any gaming condition. To undercut the power draw (and so the heat), you have to underclock/undervolt the video card (same way for the CPU).


myselphabet wrote:
Still, I have to see the maximum power consumption of these cards, maybe I see they don't differe that much compared to the GTX 750 Ti; if they will... the choice might be clear.


Well, no way: any 270/760 will draw about twice the power of a GTX 750Ti, you can easily check those data on TPU.


myselphabet wrote:
The SG08B(-LITE) ist just ugly form the side and can only handle a 147mm (non-LITE 117mm) CPU heatsink, which is kind of a turn off to me.


If you mind, I've just tested on my bench the True 120M, 145mm: with the right fan (the stock one is not less than terrible) it can cool down any Core i5 on Earth.


myselphabet wrote:
The U3 is rather beautiful except for the silver power button (on the black (for me) front panel); also I doubt the conditions for the airflow.


You might resell it, in case (after writing down a user review on SPCR, of course). There's no easy way, however, as any aesthetic demand cannot be denied without some injury. You have just to be prepared to waste some money, in case, that's all.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: quiet mITX with mid range hardware
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1900
Location: Guatemala
Personally im falling in love with the N1Case, just amazing design, but atm i have no need to go small or to change any of the actual setups, but its on my short list in case i move on to smaller case.

Overall i dont recommend lian li for quiet setups, usually aluminium is less likely to help reduce the noise ocer steel, that said i own atm 3 lian li cases, i like a lot their finish and designs. Im not a big fan of the Silverstone Sugo series, but i do like a lot silverstone higher end like FT02 and keeping my eyes open for the upcoming FT05.

Quest posted you a very good thread on OCN about the 304, look for ideas there, see if it will fit what you are looking for. If you find the 304 mets your requirements remember to chose ASUS for your motherboard else you wont be able to install a tower cooler, that imo is one of the strengths of the 304, no matter if its the low end or the high end, all have the same socket position. I like a lot Noctua NH-U14S on it out of two reasons, its narrow so it should allow you to not reach the top bar, and second the fan included on the heatsink runs the same RPMS on any give PWM %, as the NF-A14 PWM, so you can bind both fans to Cha_FAN (with Y splitter that comes on the NF-A14 PWM), giving you a pull push with the same rpms and moving according to the CPU temperature. Now the frontal fans.... it will depend into how you want to control them, Asus come with FanXpert2, so the CHA_FAN should allow you to control one fan easily, or you can get a 4pin PWM Y splitter (example Silverstone Tek Sleeved PWM Fan Splitter Cable (CPF01)) to run both frontal fans from the same header (this is an example of the H87i that only comes with two fan headers). If you do find the Noctua too expensive, and dont wish to the change the back case fan, the leave it on the case fan controller, and leave the mugen fan on CPU_FAN and get a Y splitter to connect the two frontal fan to the CHA_FAN.

Either way good luck with the choices, i think you did a lot of research, and your choices all seems fine, its a matter of what you like better.

I think the 750ti is a great card by nvidia, specially for someone looking for a low power and low heat card, either with the MSI twin frozr or going custom aftermeket, but the GTX760 is also a great card, if you feel it furfill your needs better go for it. Btw evil CA_Steve made me buy a 750ti with all his reviews links.... to be honest was that and that MADVR is also having some new filters and people are recommending to upgrade to a 750ti as minimum, so what the hell.... here is a sneak peak.

Image

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: quiet mITX with mid range hardware
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 22
Ok, Ok. I made a decision... well, nearly :D
My list so far:
  • CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K
  • GPU: MSI N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC Twin Frozr Gaming
    R9 270X consuming up to 150W and GTX 760 200W, wow! Let's face it: overkill, overheat, I take the GTX 750 TI. If it's really not enough, I will get another card.
  • RAM: Crucial Ballistix Tactical LP DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR3L-1600, CL8-8-8-24, low profile
    I just took the cheapest low profile 16GB kit, timings and clock should be sufficient?
  • MB: ASUS Z87I-Pro (C2)
    Since ASUS has the best layout (I trust in you, I didn't google any measurements ;) ) and I rely on W-LAN, I found this. What is the difference between C1 and C2? C2 doesn't have a "stand by USB bug"?. The other ASUS board i found was the ASUS Maximus VI Impact. About 40% more expensive, worth it?
  • Case: Fractal Design Node 304
    Well, nothing to say, as expected and I was struggeling for about one week...
  • PSU: be quiet! System Power 7 450W ATX 2.31
    Just searched for a PSU with >90% efficiency, 150mm max length. 160mm are the maximum but I just don't want to risk it.
    I guess this PSU is just overkill for my system? Could even a fanless PSU be an option, or will it be too hot and I need the PSU airflow?
  • SSD: Crucial M500 240GB
    Maybe I shout go for a Samsung 840 EVO/Pro 250GB? If so, why?

As for the CPU cooler, it is kind of hard to find a Noctua NH-U14S . Is there any list out there, which contains fitting cooler? (I have to admit, I didn't google it, yet)
Sadly this list doesn't seem to be up to date I am upen for some other suggestions. Also, I will try to find some myself.
Recognized brands are Noctua, Prolimatech and Scythe, right?

I will change the fans in the case; 2 x 92mm and 1 x 140mm. I will decide including these lists: 92mm and 140mm. The most quiet available at the shop I'm ordering is it going to be. Mabye 2 x 140mm if the CPU cooler allows 140mm fans.

Ok, I hope I am finally hitting the home stretch and ordering tomorrow. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: quiet mITX with mid range hardware
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Scandinavia
myselphabet wrote:
Is it crazy of me to suggest that CPU cooler <100mm height are too loud/cannot get rid of the heat in such a small system?

I recently bought my spouse a new rig according to preference for "smallest" footprint, fast enough performance, and sufficient quietness:

CPU: i3-4130
CPU Cooler: Scythe Big Shuriken 2
Motherboard: Asrock H81M-ITX
Chassis: Lian Li PC-TU100 (Silver!)
Chassis Fan: Noctua NF-S12A PWM
PSU: SilverStone ST30SF (Semi-fanless)
SSD: Crucial M500 120GB
Memory: Samsung 4GB@1333MHz (which I bought long time ago)

After undergoing some tuning on CPU fan and chassis fan, i.e., fan curve function w.r.t. CPU temperature, the build was incredibly quiet, if not completely, because of (i) vague electrical noise from ST30SF and (ii) breeze-like whoosh from the fan of Scythe Big Shuriken 2 in full load state (where the CPU temperature stays around 58-60 Celsius). In this light, you are completely "sane" in considering CPU coolers > 100mm height because, as far as my experience goes, i3-4130 seems to be the highest CPU that can be quietened in such a small chassis (PC-TU100) with reasonably low CPU temperature for enthusiasts (???) and you are planning to opt for higher CPUs (hence higher TDPs). Also, I'd like to add that I reckon that most Haswell i5 CPUs can be almost silenced in a similar configuration/footprint if you don't feel uncomfortable with CPU temperature reaching around 70 Celsius (which I believe is completely safe range) in full load. However, I concede that most people buying aftermarket CPU coolers expect considerably lower CPU temperature in full load, perhaps around 50-60 Celsius.

_________________
Main: TJ08-E|NF-S12A; Asrock B85M Pro4; i5-4430|NH-U12S; 16G@1600; MSI GTX660OC|Alpenföhn Peter|2x NF-S12A; Intel 330 180G|335 240G; Corsair RM650; Dell U2713HM; BlasterAXX SBX10; Blu-ray SH-B123L, Family: PC-TU100A|NF-S12A; Asrock H81M-ITX; i3-4130|Big Shuriken 2B; SilverStone ST30SF, HTPC: PC-Q11A|NF-A14; Asrock B75M-DGS; i3-2100; Zotac GT640 Fanless; Seasonic SS-400FL2


Last edited by ggumdol on Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: quiet mITX with mid range hardware
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Scandinavia
myselphabet wrote:
CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K
GPU: MSI N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC Twin Frozr Gaming

I think it is a sensible choice or perhaps inevitable conclusion for people obssesed with silence.

myselphabet wrote:
RAM: Crucial Ballistix Tactical LP DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR3L-1600, CL8-8-8-24, low profile
I just took the cheapest low profile 16GB kit, timings and clock should be sufficient?

On the one hand, it is mandatory to buy low-profile RAMs and I'm glad that you follow our (?) rule of thumb. However, CL8 is unnecessarily good timing. It is well-known that timing does not really matter in reality. You might want to buy even cheaper one with worse timing.

myselphabet wrote:
MB: ASUS Z87I-Pro (C2)

Well, I have been constantly recommending Asrock motherboards particularly for Haswell CPUs.

myselphabet wrote:
PSU: be quiet! System Power 7 450W ATX 2.31

You might want to consider Corsair RM450 (semi-fanless yet practically fanless in your planned build) as well.

myselphabet wrote:
SSD: Crucial M500 240GB
Maybe I shout go for a Samsung 840 EVO/Pro 250GB? If so, why?

If I may, I would like to opine that Crucial M500 240GB is fast enough and cheaper than Samsung SSDs, at least in Scandinavia.

myselphabet wrote:
As for the CPU cooler, it is kind of hard to find a Noctua NH-U14S . Is there any list out there, which contains fitting cooler? (I have to admit, I didn't google it, yet)

Noctua NH-U14S might turn out to be an overkill for your i5 CPU if you can allow CPU temperature to reach around (mere) 60 Celsius in rather rare full load states. Also, in light of the overall trend of miniaturization in PC market, to some extent aided by CPUs consuming ever lower power due to smaller process technology, it might be an idea to avoid gigantic CPU coolers such as NH-U14S. Thus it will be easier to upgrade your build in the future with a bit smaller and more universally compatible (e.g., not blocking PCIE slot) coolers like NH-U12S, not that I mean that NH-U12S is "not" gigantic.

_________________
Main: TJ08-E|NF-S12A; Asrock B85M Pro4; i5-4430|NH-U12S; 16G@1600; MSI GTX660OC|Alpenföhn Peter|2x NF-S12A; Intel 330 180G|335 240G; Corsair RM650; Dell U2713HM; BlasterAXX SBX10; Blu-ray SH-B123L, Family: PC-TU100A|NF-S12A; Asrock H81M-ITX; i3-4130|Big Shuriken 2B; SilverStone ST30SF, HTPC: PC-Q11A|NF-A14; Asrock B75M-DGS; i3-2100; Zotac GT640 Fanless; Seasonic SS-400FL2


Last edited by ggumdol on Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group