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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:19 am 
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Bought the Palit 750 Ti Storm DualX a few days ago. The card is brilliant in every way except that it still "whooshes" at idle a lot more than I expected. The good news is that the fan spins at 30% at idle and only goes to 39% while furmarking (reaching 59 C in my rig), so there's a lot of headroom cooling-wise. Now wondering what I'll do to it to get it quieter...


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:30 am 
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Vinz wrote:
Now wondering what I'll do to it to get it quieter...


AFAIK currently it's not possible (it's not possible for any Nvidia since the Kepler launch), but swapping the cooler.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:33 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Vinz wrote:
Now wondering what I'll do to it to get it quieter...

AFAIK currently it's not possible (it's not possible for any Nvidia since the Kepler launch), but swapping the cooler.

Yep. You could try a fan swap or an in-line resistor if the card uses a 2-pin (analog/voltage adjustment) fan.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:38 am 
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edh wrote:
I've been screwing big lumps of aluminium to things that aren't supposed to take them for years and never had any permanent damage but accept it invalidates any warranty.

True story - his family dog never has a thermal issue.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:05 pm 
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Location: UK
quest_for_silence wrote:
IMO/IME they are just incompetent, as they don't care to know what they're dealing with.

All in all, what matters are the mounting holes, and from a practical standpoint AC don't do anything else than checking that correspondance when they release a new compatibility list (so no rocket science, extensive testing, or any UE lobbying: I would add that as their products come from Far East, there are chances that CE mark actually means "China Export").

But the Customer Support people, at their corporate level of responsibility, just don't care to do anything more than shallowy repeating what's already written on their web pages: so they actually give no support, and that's ridiculous.


That's a very niave attitude. They're not going to list a product as being compatible with a graphics card without testing it themselves with that graphics card themselves.

Arctic is a Swiss company so the whole 'CE=China Export' ruse is irrelevant. Some far eastern companies have fraudulently listed things as being CE marked but it has never been 'China Export', that's a myth. I do know about CE marking by the way. Anything made by Arctic will be CE marked as for a European company to list something fraudulently would be suicidal.

If however you disagree with this risk averse strategy then by all means establish a company and tell people they can do whatever the hell they like with your products and when they then sue you saying 'your product killed my wife and kids but you said it wouldn't', then we'll see who'll stay in business.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:49 pm 
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edh wrote:
That's a very niave attitude. They're not going to list a product as being compatible with a graphics card without testing it themselves with that graphics card themselves.


Maybe, or maybe not. I have no evidence they test by themselves any card they list, but on the other hand I have proof they didn't even check when the mounting holes are exactly the same between two reference cards (one listed, while the other is not).
It's enough to have doubts about how the manufacturer actually work out their compatibility lists.


edh wrote:
Arctic is a Swiss company


First of all, about CE meaning "China Export", I was just teasing when saying "there are chance".
Second, Arctic as a Swiss company just "design" the AC products (whatever they mean for "designing"), but AFAIK the actual company which manufactures and sells the S1 Plus is Arctic Ltd, a China (Hong Kong) based company. Third point, AFAIK Switzerland does not agree with EEA regulations, but have his own bi-lateral agreements with UE and EFTA countries.
Last but not least, AFAIK the Accelero S1 Plus does not sport any CE mark.


edh wrote:
then we'll see who'll stay in business.


Even if the Poet said there are more things in heaven and earth, than are dreamt of in my naive philosophy, I've never either seen or heard of a women killed by a VGA heatsink.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 5:01 pm 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
Vinz wrote:
Now wondering what I'll do to it to get it quieter...

AFAIK currently it's not possible (it's not possible for any Nvidia since the Kepler launch), but swapping the cooler.

Yep. You could try a fan swap or an in-line resistor if the card uses a 2-pin (analog/voltage adjustment) fan.


It does actually. And I already have a bunch of those Noctua 3-pin cables lying around, or I can use the fan controller I already have. Should make for a nice project, the only unknown is how slow the fans will start I guess. Although if I do put in too much resistance the Palit software makes it incredibly easy to define your own fan profile, you just can't go under 30%.


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 10:31 pm 
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Vinz wrote:
the only unknown is how slow the fans will start I guess..


Providing you have a good manual attitude at soldering/crimping, if you're lucky you could read the fan label, if any, in order to look for any datasheet. Otherwise you may use a variable DC source for the classical trial and error method.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 10:56 pm 
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Vinz wrote:
...incredibly easy to define your own fan profile, you just can't go under 30%.

Same story over at MSI Afterburner. It's ridiculous with these low-power cards (hell, even most midrange cards, I'd imagine), as the fan or fans will be spinning at over 1000 RPM while the GPU remains under 40 degrees Celsius.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 11:09 pm 
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Vinz wrote:
And I already have a bunch of those Noctua 3-pin cables lying around.


I've just found the same solution has been applied by some owners of the EVGA FTW, successfully: you've just to try and see if it can work for your Palit too (without determining priorly the relevant starting voltage).

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 6:46 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Vinz wrote:
Now wondering what I'll do to it to get it quieter...


AFAIK currently it's not possible (it's not possible for any Nvidia since the Kepler launch), but swapping the cooler.
There is something weird about nvidia cards, as you say since kepler. I couldnt control reliabily the fans on the Accelero III on my GTX780, but i kinda think they did some tweaking to the PWM design, because it also happens with the adapter on the prolimatech mk-26 (that its just a simple 4pin vga plug to standard 4pin pwm fans), but seems... and i say that crossing my fingers, did something about it, on the accelero IV its suppose to have an upgraded fan controller... that works with GTX780... again a lot of smoke, maybe marketing, but i might give a shot to test and see if they work it out.

Quote:
New Fan Controller

An improved fan controller and the use of additional filters guarantee a smooth operation. Through software, the temperature-fan speed curve can be adjusted. No matter whether you are a hardcore-gamer or a silent enthusiast, you get the temperature and noise level exactly where you want it to be.
If i end up buying it ill report back on it.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 4:20 pm 
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I've received the MSI 'Gaming' edition 750ti that will be going to Mike for review.

I tested it in my system, which is 'quiet' by SPCR standards, but not silent. It's a Fractal Define R4 with stock rear fan, and 2 Coolermaster low speed 120mm intake fans, all running on 12V. CPU heatsink is a 212evo with stock fan, which runs slow enough to inaudible. Storage is 4 Seagate Barracuda 3TB and 2 WD Red 3TB.

Minimum fan speed as displayed by Afterburner software is 32 (930 RPM indicated). With the side panel off, levels of 45 and higher are discernable over the other noises (that's 1260rpm). The good news is that with side panel back on, under automatic control, the fan never went higher than 38 while running Folding@Home at 99% CPU and GPU usage. It kept up its maximum boost clock of 1202Mhz and temperatures did not go above 58C.

Folding points per day were 14.9k on a project 8017 work unit (Core 15).


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 6:22 pm 
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MSI and the 900rpm fan...For grins, b4 you ship it, unplug/turn off the chassis fans and see if the video card is audible.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:02 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
MSI and the 900rpm fan...For grins, b4 you ship it, unplug/turn off the chassis fans and see if the video card is audible.

Yeah, that's an awful lot of (generic) fans and HDDs for 'quiet', but that is a relative concept.

Thanks for being a card donor, GentleGiant, as only a few people expressed interest in sponsoring the card review.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 12:02 pm 
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So i got some time this weekend, although it looks like im getting a cold =(.

Im in the process of upgrading my HTPC setup, and chose the GTX750Ti as my dedicated GPU for MADVR and LAV filters, but i also wanted to see how was Maxwell PWM design. So here some of my observations....

Short version, the MSI GTX750Ti Twin Frozr IV N750Ti is wonderful, not dead silent, but very quiet, even at idle, remember this is all subjective and we all have different standards into whats tolerable in terms of noise, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Long version..... So i bought a bunch of cables six months ago to be able to test GPUs from modDYI, because im really angry that i cant control my GTX780 on software, but at the end i didnt use them as i just got tired of the issue and left the Accelero III run with the 7v adapter (this will be changed soon as im testing Accelero IV later on), the cables that i bought were 4pin gpu PWM female to 4pin standard motherboard header male, a splitter with small PWM gpu to twin standard fan headers, and so on... lots of cables that today got used to do some testing on the Maxwell GTX750Ti.

I wanted to know if the fans used by MSI could reach lower than what the user is restricted on MSI afterburner, the vbios, etc. So i unpluged the 4pin gpu fan header of the twin frozr cooler and connected it to my fan testing pc, to a true PWM fan header on my ASUS Mamximus VI Gene, aka CPU_FAN and ran fanXpert2 on it, here is a picture of the card connected and the run.

Image

Image

I also ran it on Fake 4pin, aka voltage controlled header for anyone wondering,

Image

As you can see from the pictures the fans cant go much lower than what the vbios runs, so even if you were able to modify it, i don't think you will gain much.

I also bought an Accelero S1, since i expected the above already with my experience on GTX780, but before i bothered installing it... i decided to use more cables that i had from MODDYI, this time i used the 4pin GPU splited to 4pin GPU and 4pin standard PWM adapter then i added a noctua Y splitter so i could sustain the default fans while i was testing the Noctua NF-S12A PWM thats was meant for the S1.

Image

I also tested the NF-S12A PWM on Asus Maximus Gene IV to see its PWM fan curve,

Image

Now connected to the GPU, it doesnt go below 900rpms or around there, even when the PWM says 32%.... i also tested MSI afterburner 3.0 with no success, here is a HWmonitor pic of both the standard twin frozr IV and the splitter to NF-S12A.

Image

Very noticeable the NF-S12A PWM at 900rpm, not noisy, but much more than the standard twin frozr setup, so i have decided against installing the S1, maybe in the future fully passive, but my setup has fans already so i dont see much point.... to me the cooler is good enough as it is, even you read those rpms its quiet imo, SPCR should be reviewing it soon, hope they found similar things to what i saw. I defently see the S1 as capable of handling the GTX750Ti, but to me unless you need a dead silent GPU, im not recommending it, for me the times of upgrading GPU to aftermarket coolers are over (i need to keep telling me this), im pretty happy with what MSI have accomplish and although i dont own all, from what i read and tested, i think its good enough, hope they sustain their policy toward quiet cards, and ill be throwing twin GTX880ti soon =).

For now it will remain like that, i still have to test it watching movies on my dedicated HT, maybe in the future if the cooler starts to be noticeable i might install the S1, ill post here if i do so, i still have some Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP11 500rpms that should end up pretty good since the NF-S12A PWM cant be drop down as much as I hoped, but as i said, i feel what MSI did is good enough, at least for me, i bet there will be people that wont be, but we all have different needs.

Now to Accelero IV and to see if Artic finally did something about controlling the fans on the GTX780.....

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 12:55 pm 
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Thanks for the experiment :D Hopefully, MSI will get over their fixation on 900rpm min fan speeds.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 1:06 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Thanks for the experiment :D Hopefully, MSI will get over their fixation on 900rpm min fan speeds.
They need to redesign their fans, and with that the Vbios and so on, i think its very possible, but weather they see its worth it for the small minority we are... idk. I think they could have design the fans to idle at 500rpms easily and lose those on the 3000rpm on the top end, still it would be 2500rpms, that should cope with most people even if you want extremely quiet or and avid overclocker.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 4:43 pm 
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Wow, I picked up the same MSI card today and just played about an hour of Titanfall with the card at 100% stock settings. I'm already very happy with it for 1080p gaming.

Fan min: 32% 880 rpm
Fan max: 34% 976 rpm

Temp never got above 55C. There's obviously some room to spin those fans down especially in 2d mode.

Previously I was using a GF560 Ti 448 core (~250w) with Asetek GF740 cooling and a noctua high static pressure fan. That combo was significantly louder under load both for the GPU cooling, and added load on the PSU.

At this point, the most noticeable noise in my PC is the pump for the Antec Kuhler 620 on the CPU.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:41 am 
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I just picked up an EVGA 750 OC (not ti, 01G-P4-2753-KR) and fitted an old Accelero S1 to it. All of the plastic parts had been previously removed, but this might not be necessary. There is no fan dedicated to the Accelero.

Under furmark with the fan (it ramped up to 49% and was loud) temp was 60C, with the Accelero, 61C, ambient 23C. Tests were for 10 minutes each.

Minimum fan speed for this card is 40% and it can not be adjusted lower using EVGA precision. It is difficult to reach the connector for the fan without removing the cooler. There is no void warranty sticker on the screws affixing the cooler to the card as there are with some PNY cards. This card was chosen because it was only $100 after rebate at Fry's. That deal ends today.

Stock noise level would be masked by the average system, but it is too loud for a system built to be quiet.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:21 pm 
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diver wrote:
There is no void warranty sticker on the screws affixing the cooler to the card as there are with some PNY cards.
This is probably because EVGA sell an optional GTX 750/750 Ti backplate (in two different versions) which requires these screws to be removed. The short version is shown below:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:51 am 
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www.overclock.net/t/1449389/video-card- ... -out-water

report of Twin Frozr card shooting out grease/lubricant from fans.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:55 am 
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Kyno wrote:
I actually finish building it, couldn't wait :mrgreen:

Damn that EVGA is loud.

I tried without it, only with my Fractal Arc Midi R2 fans+Scythe Mugen 4 and it was almost inaudible in a quiet room (I'll probably replace case fans by 1 or 2 Scythe).

Then I added the EVGA, WOOOSH :lol:

Can't get the fans below 42% in EVGA Precision X, unfortunately, so I'll be replacing the fans by a low rpm one.


Thanks for the info.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:30 am 
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Techno Pride wrote:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1449389/video-card-shooting-out-water

report of Twin Frozr card shooting out grease/lubricant from fans.

Damn, thanks for bringing that up. There is no excuse for having lubrication fail on your fans. I've heard of this in case fans but not cooler fans so far.

PS. Reading about it in-depth, it seems the problem only occurs when the fan is manually forced to run at higher RPM than the automatic control would make it. The lubricant caused short-circuiting or something for the guy, as him cleaning the slot was the only way to make his replacement card work (even after a complete OS reinstall). Sounds like lazy QC on MSI's part if fan speed is to blame and it's not just this one sample.

PPS. One more reason to hold out for the passive model, eh. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:05 am 
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Techno Pride wrote:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1449389/video-card-shooting-out-water

report of Twin Frozr card shooting out grease/lubricant from fans.
I do think the problem is real and its a shame on QC on MSI, but i also don't think its all the cards or all the batches.

MSI GTX 780Ti GAMING GeForce GTX 780 Ti 3GB GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 Video Card, 2/49 reported (3 but one is the same guy twice).
Quote:
Cons: I bought this card from Memory Express and I'm just here to give a warning. It leaks an oily substance from the fans, which gets progressively over time.
Quote:
After about a month of owning two of these MSI 780 Ti Gaming cards, I noticed a rattling sound coming from them. So I checked inside my PC and it turns out that both cards were leaking an oily lubrication material from their fans, which was causing the fans to rattle when the speed is set to 80% or above.

What's worse is that the oily/grease substance was leaking onto the fan blades, which spray the substance in a circular arc all over inside my pc. I'm lucky that my other components weren't damaged!

MSI Gaming N780 TF 3GD5/OC GeForce GTX 780 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 SLI Support Video Card 1/55 reviews reported oil leakage.
Quote:
The fans started making a rattling noise after a few weeks, and appeared to be leaking oil. My first card fried after a couple months, the second fried a few weeks after that while waiting on a replacement for the first.

MSI Gaming N770 TF 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 770 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 SLI Support Video Card, 1/142 reviews reported oil leak.
Quote:
Cons: both of the fan's leaked oil from the fan all over my MB.. then one of the fan blade broke off.

MSI Gaming N770 TF 4GD5/OC GeForce GTX 770 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card, 1/24 reported leakage.
Quote:
One of the cards fans leaked oil all over my case, board, ram, and everything else. RMA'd the card that leaked, the replacement card was back to me in 10 days and has been running for 3 days with no problems.

MSI Gaming N760 TF 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 760 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 SLI Support Video Card, 1/230 reviews reported leakage.
Quote:
Cons: Runs hot,
After owning two of these cards for less than 6 months both cards started leaking oil out of their fans. The oil sprayed around my case making a big mess. I luckily noticed it before it got too bad, but many others haven't been so lucky.

MSI Gaming N760 TF 4GD5/OC GeForce GTX 760 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 SLI Support Video Card, 0/49 reviews.
MSI GAMING N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 HDCP Ready Video Card 0/16 reviews.
MSI GAMING N750 TF 1GD5/OC GeForce GTX 750 1GB 128-Bit GDDR5 HDCP Ready Video Card 0/10 reviews.

I'll report back in a month if i see any oil spots.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:50 am 
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Thanks. The grease issue affects the MSI AMD Twin Frozr IV cards too.

There was another forum mentioning the issue and MSI has identified the batch(es?) affected. Pre-Jan14. The 750ti is newer, I can't tell the 750ti uses the same batch of fans or not. Some guy went on and on there about how the end user can simply wipe the oil off. :roll:

How does one wipe the grease out of a PCI/PCIE slot, i wonder...

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:54 am 
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Techno Pride wrote:
How does one wipe the grease out of a PCI/PCIE slot, i wonder...

Microfibre cloth sips it right up, otherwise just use an electronics/contact cleaning spray or slot cleaner; I've had the spray work wonders on car electronics where the contamination can be quite a bit messier than in a nice indoors PC. Expecting the consumer who paid a three-figure sum for a product to just clean up and carry on sounds silly to say the least, of course. Never has a case been clearer about a product being faulty. :lol:

Thanks for the legwork Abula, guess that confirms it's a number of fans, not just an isolated incident.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:22 pm 
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One card that might be worth wating for people looking for ultra quiet setup, is the new Asus offering with the Strix coolers, Strix Gaming Graphics Cards - 0dB Fan Technology, that are passive until 65C, at least on the GTX780, check the [H]ardOCP ASUS STRIX GTX 780 OC 6GB Review - Exclusive, btw Asus should have given this card to SPCR before an overclocking site.

Quote:
STRIX Fan Technology
ASUS has developed an entire new line of video cards with intelligent fan control and 0dB sound operation. We think the new STRIX video card line is a success. The fans worked as advertised. When the video card was idle, or at low-load the fans stayed completely off.

When we went into hardcore gaming, about 30 seconds into the game the fans spun slowly up as needed. We did not notice any fan noise at all, even during long sessions of gaming. The fans never went above 50% of the maximum rotation speed, keeping these quiet. When we exited games the fans turned completely off again. ASUS engineers have done a excellent job with the fan controller and the fan design on this STRIX video card.

We also watched some videos full-screen on YouTube and the fans stayed completely off. This means movie watching on your PC can be a silent affair with no noise from the video card.
According to the video there will be a GTX750Ti Strix coming soon.... Maybe Asus could give a sample to SPCR for reviewing.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:12 pm 
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Semipassive sounds really nice. As much as I like passive cooling, it's nice to know there's a Plan B in place in case conditions deteriorate.

The Hardocp article cites the fans as starting at 300 RPM, which is really noteworthy considering how ridiculously high the lowest setting on most stock fans on GPU coolers is (1000+ RPM). However the article fails to mention what this maximum RPM rating is that we're seeing 50% of, at least I couldn't find it.

I'm not seeing the Strix models in stores over here or on Amazon UK yet, so I can't comment on the price. If it's more or less the same as a budget 750 Ti with a good replacement cooler, I'm definitely setting my sights on it.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:05 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
The Hardocp article cites the fans as starting at 300 RPM, which is really noteworthy considering how ridiculously high the lowest setting on most stock fans on GPU coolers is (1000+ RPM). However the article fails to mention what this maximum RPM rating is that we're seeing 50% of, at least I couldn't find it.

The chart on page http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/06/ ... 5mV90pglig:
Image

49% fan speed = 2554 RPM, so at 100% it's over 5108 RPM...


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:13 am 
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Thanks, I went through some of the pictures but was at work, so couldn't go through every one of them. If 50% means 2500 RPM then wow - that's nearing the 3k limit, which is where I'm used to seeing GPU cooler fans top out.

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