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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:24 am 
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doveman wrote:
Thanks for finding all those for me but ouch! They're all more expensive than the EVGA SuperNOVA 750W you posted, even those that are lower wattage.

As I wrote: «http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00J01K3E8 is more probably that not the most affordable option».
If you want a PSU which is not noisier than your current CP850, those are the candidates I'm aware of.


doveman wrote:
The closest in price is the Corsair RM750. If the RM series are good, maybe the 650W would be an option? It's not much cheaper than the RM750 or the EVGA though, so probably better to spend an extra few quid to have 750W rather than 650W http://skinflint.co.uk/corsair-rm-serie ... 00826.html Which would you say is the better choice out of the SuperNOVA 750W and the RM750?

The eVGA is a FAR BETTER unit than any Corsair RM: the first is in the same league of Seasonic Platinum/X-series, the second is more similar to Seasonic G-series. The Corsair RM650 is inferior to both (it's a different platform than its larger brothers).
On the other hand, given that they all are hybrid (semi-fanless) units, noise-wise they are comparable.


doveman wrote:
The only review of the SuperNOVA on Amazon reckons it's 'about on par' with his previous Be Quiet L8 530 as far as noise is concerned but obviously it's a subjective opinion and he might just not be sensitive enough or have sharp enough hearing to tell the difference, or maybe the L8 is actually so quiet that no-one could notice the difference, if there even is one.

As I already pointed out to you several posts ago, the L8 is a low-end unit with an enough-low-speed fan (Silent Wings Pure, with a rifle bearing) which is not comparable to the SuperNOVA G2-series.
You may read something about the SuperNOVA G2 in several reviews on Anandtech, TechPowerUp!, JonnyGuru, HardOCP and many others.


doveman wrote:
Or how about this BeQuiet L8 730W for £76? http://www.lambda-tek.com/BN183-bequiet ... cs/2546769 Or maybe even this L8 630W for £57? http://www.scan.co.uk/products/630w-be- ... an-atx-psu

Are you kidding, or do you really want to compare an about-1-year-old-10-years-warranty-semi-fanless-80+gold-platform @ £82 (& Amazon Customer Service), with an about-4-years-old-3-years-warranty-fully-fanned-80+bronze-unit @ £76 (& Lambda-Tek Customer Support)?
The 630W model is pretty cheap so it offers a better value than the 730W unit, but it does not offer a better value than the SuperNOVA G2.
Whether you'll draw >300W (and probably less than 450-500W), I don't think the L8 can run as quiet as the hybrid (semi-fanless) EVGA, while if the power draw were around 230W (gaming figure, like a Core i5 + GTX 760-class card) YMMV (it depens of enclosure, placement and so on: but it would still be a clearly inferior PSU, performance-wise).


doveman wrote:
One nice thing about this CX750M I'm using as a temporary measure is that the SATA cable is very long with the headers spaced far about, so I might be able to just use one to power both HDDs and the X-Docks (which only use one power connector for both), keeping cable clutter down, so if any of the SuperNOVA or the L8's have the same, that would be useful to know when choosing between them.

Check the above mentioned reviews (AFAIK at least JonnyGuru usually measures cables length).

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:28 am 
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CPU power is proportional to f*(V^2), where f is clock frequency and V is CPU core voltage. So, if you overclock with stock voltage, then a 20% overclock -> 20% more power. So, instead of ~84W max load, it's ~100W. If you overvolt, then it gets more exciting.

Figure ~1.1V core voltage for stock. If you raise this to 1.2V, then your power use goes up (1.2^2)/(1.1^2), or 19%. So, if it takes a core voltage of 1.2V to get a 25% freq. bump, your max load power goes up 1.19*1.25 = 48.75% to 125W...and so on.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:46 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Last but not least, you may also give a look to TechPowerUp! reviews, as they usually publish the PSU fan rotational speed, which may help you to assess the expected sound pressure level (obviously, they can't help you about the relevant noise signature, which is very important).

Just for other people lurking this thread (you have to do your homeworks on your own, doveman).

doveman wrote:
Or how about this BeQuiet L8 730W for £76? http://www.lambda-tek.com/BN183-bequiet ... cs/2546769

Did you check at how much LambaTek sells that EVGA G2? IIRC it's priced at more than £108 (excluding shipping, vs £81 shipping included @ Amazon).

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:38 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
As I wrote: «http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00J01K3E8 is more probably that not the most affordable option».
If you want a PSU which is not noisier than your current CP850, those are the candidates I'm aware of.


Yeah, fair enough. The eVGA G2 from Amazon is probably the best option. It just annoys me a bit to have to buy a 750W+ when I might only be pulling 350-400W but that's always been an issue and very few attempts have been made to fill that niche, other than the Nexus Value 430 (which I have in my other PC). Probably better to have the spare capacity in case I need it though and it will make it easier to resell in future.

Quote:
The eVGA is a FAR BETTER unit than any Corsair RM: the first is in the same league of Seasonic Platinum/X-series, the second is more similar to Seasonic G-series. The Corsair RM650 is inferior to both (it's a different platform than its larger brothers).
On the other hand, given that they all are hybrid (semi-fanless) units, noise-wise they are comparable.


The RM650 has a rifle-bearing fan http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/RM650/4.html but if the PSU overall is so inferior, it's probably sensible to get the eVGA G2, even if the fan might not be quite as reliable. The profile on the G2 has it stay quiet for longer, so staying off until 300W then ramping up to 25dBA at 350W-450W, whilst the RM650 hits about 18dBA at 300W and then is around 28-30dBA to 450W (though I'm not sure how they can measure this if the 'Background noise inside the anechoic chamber was below 30 dBA during testing'). However, at 600W the G2 is at 37dBA, whilst the RM650 is only at 34dBA. To be honest, I don't really understand their reviews, as the coloured charts seems to show the PSUs running noiser at 28-30c ambient (300-400W in the 31-34dBA range) than the previous chart shows it running at 37-46c (300-400W 0-25dBA). http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA ... 750/6.html

The P2-1000 would be nice, around 14dBA at 500W and 24dBA at 600W http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA ... 000/6.html which would obviously be an advantage over the G2-750 (27dba and 37dba) if mining with 2*250W cards, or even 2*200W cards (0dba vs 24dba) but it's around twice the price and I'm not really into mining (dabbled a couple of months ago, might dabble again sometime), so it's not worth it for me. As I said before, the main thing for me is that it stays quiet and unobtrusive when idling or being used for light tasks and when gaming, a bit of noise from the fans isn't a problem.

As you said about the reviews though 'obviously, they can't help you about the relevant noise signature, which is very important' and as we have no information about it, how can we possibly choose a PSU?

Quote:
As I already pointed out to you several posts ago, the L8 is a low-end unit with an enough-low-speed fan (Silent Wings Pure, with a rifle bearing) which is not comparable to the SuperNOVA G2-series. You may read something about the SuperNOVA G2 in several reviews on Anandtech, TechPowerUp!, JonnyGuru, HardOCP and many others.


Yeah, sorry. I didn't properly cross-check with your previous post.

Quote:
Are you kidding, or do you really want to compare an about-1-year-old-10-years-warranty-semi-fanless-80+gold-platform @ £82 (& Amazon Customer Service), with an about-4-years-old-3-years-warranty-fully-fanned-80+bronze-unit @ £76 (& Lambda-Tek Customer Support)?


No, I wasn't aware of the different ages, warranty terms, etc.

Quote:
Check the above mentioned reviews (AFAIK at least JonnyGuru usually measures cables length).


Actually, I've ended up having to use two SATA power cables anyway, despite the CX750M ones being quite long and having three well spaced connectors on each. The rest aren't a problem in the XB EVO case, although I'm already using an ATX 24-pin and PCI-E extension cables, mainly because I hate having to struggle to get those in and out, so it's easier on the boards/GPU if I can just separate them at the extension when I need to.

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2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:46 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
CPU power is proportional to f*(V^2), where f is clock frequency and V is CPU core voltage. So, if you overclock with stock voltage, then a 20% overclock -> 20% more power. So, instead of ~84W max load, it's ~100W. If you overvolt, then it gets more exciting.

Figure ~1.1V core voltage for stock. If you raise this to 1.2V, then your power use goes up (1.2^2)/(1.1^2), or 19%. So, if it takes a core voltage of 1.2V to get a 25% freq. bump, your max load power goes up 1.19*1.25 = 48.75% to 125W...and so on.


Thanks, that makes sense. I'm not going for maximum overclock, something modest like 4.2Ghz (which might be all the 4670k can manage and still keep reasonable temps, without delidding it, which I don't want to risk), so I think allowing 150W for the CPU should be OK.

In fact, this shows it only pulling 162W at 4.6Ghz even with the artificial load of Prime95. Nutty to see how much more power the older CPUs draw when OC'd (and in the case of the FX-8350, even when not) though http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2013/0 ... u-review/6

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2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:50 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Did you check at how much LambaTek sells that EVGA G2? IIRC it's priced at more than £108 (excluding shipping, vs £81 shipping included @ Amazon).


I just checked and it's £85.91 inc. VAT but plus shipping, which brings it to £91.85. I don't see what that has to do with whether it would be good value to buy the L8 from them though (assuming the L8 was worth buying at all of course).

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Main: Asus Z97-A, i5-4670k@4.4Ghz, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 4x4GB, eVGA SuperNova G2 750W, Powercolor 6950 2GB GPU, Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SSD, Samsung 2TB and WD 2TB HDDs, Coolermaster HAF XB case

2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:26 pm 
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doveman wrote:
It just annoys me a bit to have to buy a 750W+ when I might only be pulling 350-400W

That's because you want to spare money (and you're lucky EVGA pricing is so aggressive): a premium 500-600W unit would be fine for a 400W power draw, but it would also cost you more money.
Another reason is the room you want to grow: apparently you don't need more than 200-250W, so a cheaper Corsair RM450 (or maybe a BeQuiet E9) will be fine and quiet.
Last but not least, either the EVGA or the Corsair are semi-fanless and more efficient units, while your current Antec (and Nexus) are mostly noisier: so with those high powered PSU you're upgrading, noise-wise and efficiency-wise, while not spending that much.


doveman wrote:
As you said about the reviews though 'obviously, they can't help you about the relevant noise signature, which is very important' and as we have no information about it, how can we possibly choose a PSU?

As you know, at a given speed, to say, at 800rpm, two different fans can sound quite differently while emitting a not so different SPL: to say, one benign, unobtrusive, one annoying. Tone, bearing noise, chattering, clicking, and so on, are all "sound qualities" that SPL doesn't take into account.
So TPU with those rpm figures can give an help in the current scenario, where no reviewer but SPCR owns a well made semi-anechoic chamber (and a well educated, focused attitude on sound quality), but that's not enough.


doveman wrote:
No, I wasn't aware of the different ages, warranty terms, etc.

You weren't even aware of relevant performances and build quality, which equally affect end pricing.


doveman wrote:
I just checked and it's £85.91 inc. VAT

Four days ago it was 108.


doveman wrote:
I don't see what that has to do with whether it would be good value

Perhaps are you somehow short-sighted?

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:19 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Perhaps are you somehow short-sighted?


What I mean is I asked about the L8 from Lambatek at £72 and you asked if I'd seen how much they sell the G2 for, £108 vs £81 with Amazon. So you seemed to be answering a question about whether the L8 might be a good choice by telling me that the G2 is more expensive at Lambatek than at Amazon, which is true but nothing to do with the question.

Anyway, I've ordered the G2 now before I miss the chance to get it at such a good price. Thanks for your help :)

Another question I could use some help with is whether I should use my TRUE rev. C on my new Intel 4670k or if the Hyper 212 EVO would work better. I recall some coolers only worked properly with the heatpipes orientated one way (at the top or bottom, I'm not sure), whereas with my Coolermaster HAF XB EVO case, which keeps the motherboard horizontal, it's obviously not possible to orient the heatsink like this, so that will affect what heatsinks I can use.

I'm not even sure I've got the correct mounting hardware for the TRUE and the Socket 1150 on my Asus Z97-A motherboard but maybe I can buy that separately if it's a significantly better cooler (EDIT: Seems there is no mounting hardware for the TRUE and 1150). I never found it particularly effective with low-speed/quiet fans on my Phenom II X4 955 though, even when they ramped up to full-speed, although I'm sure it's fine with higher airflow/noisier fans (it's OK OC'd to 3.5Ghz but I wasn't happy going any higher because of the much higher temps but maybe it's just the chip and any quiet HSF would have had the same problem). I guess I could put the TRUE on my Dad's 4670k, as he's not so bothered about noise and will be using the CX750M PSU, so won't notice if the CPU fan runs a bit faster/noiser. I'll want to run the fan quietly with my G2 PSU though, except for when I'm gaming/stressing the CPU and need to keep the temps under control.

I've already got some MX-2 TIM I can use. I think I've still got some AS5 as well but I don't think that's as good.

I might remove the motherboard and X3 720 from my spare PC (mostly used for LAN gaming when my friend's are over but might get used as a music production PC as well sometime) and put the MSI 990FX-GD80 and X4 955 in instead. The X3 720 has a Thermalright SI-128 on it, so if that's OK for the X4 955 OC'd to 3.5Ghz, I'd have the TRUE rev. C spare but otherwise I'd need to either keep the TRUE on it or buy another HSF for it (EDIT: Nope, it seems the SI-128 will run around 15c hotter than the TRUE http://www.silentpcreview.com/article719-page4.html http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1128-page7.html so it won't be good for my OC'd X4 955. It seems the Hyper 212 Plus is only 3-4c hotter than the best heatsinks though, for around 50% of the price, so hopefully that will be sufficient for a modest (around 4.2-4.3Ghz) overclock).

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2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:51 pm 
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750W PSU for a non gaming PC sounds weird. Lower wattage PSUs work better for non gaming PCs as the PSU has to be substantially loaded to get optimum efficiency. I think you should use it for yourself and get a low wattage one for your dad along with a fractal design entry level cabinet.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:41 pm 
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The Thermalright Macho 120 http://www.scan.co.uk/products/thermalr ... d-am2-am2p might be a slight more expensive alternative to the Hyper 212 EVO http://www.scan.co.uk/products/cooler-m ... 156-1366-a

I do want whatever I get to have the fan facing the rear of the case though.

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Main: Asus Z97-A, i5-4670k@4.4Ghz, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 4x4GB, eVGA SuperNova G2 750W, Powercolor 6950 2GB GPU, Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SSD, Samsung 2TB and WD 2TB HDDs, Coolermaster HAF XB case

2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:42 am 
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Rockfella wrote:
750W PSU for a non gaming PC sounds weird. Lower wattage PSUs work better for non gaming PCs as the PSU has to be substantially loaded to get optimum efficiency. I think you should use it for yourself and get a low wattage one for your dad along with a fractal design entry level cabinet.


My Dad's PC is a gaming one, albeit only X-Plane and he might only be pulling 350W unless he adds a second GPU but at least he has the option. I mainly got the CX750M as it was on offer at a decent price for a 750W, modular supply. It won't be quiet enough for me, so I've bought myself the eVGA G2. My Dad's case (NZXT Source 530) is bought and isn't going to change either.

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Main: Asus Z97-A, i5-4670k@4.4Ghz, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 4x4GB, eVGA SuperNova G2 750W, Powercolor 6950 2GB GPU, Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SSD, Samsung 2TB and WD 2TB HDDs, Coolermaster HAF XB case

2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:14 am 
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doveman wrote:
So you seemed to be answering a question about whether the L8 might be a good choice by telling me that the G2 is more expensive at Lambatek than at Amazon

No, I was meaning that the very same Lambdatek sold the G2 at much more money than they sold the L8, and that was a reasonable clue that the first one was better than the latter.


doveman wrote:
Anyway, I've ordered the G2 now before I miss the chance to get it at such a good price. Thanks for your help :)

I hope that it will thoroughly satisfy you: as an addes bonus, if anything shouldn't be that good, I guess you can return it very easily (and usually with no penalties) with Amazon.


doveman wrote:
Another question I could use some help with is whether I should use my TRUE rev. C on my new Intel 4670k or if the Hyper 212 EVO would work better. I recall some coolers only worked properly with the heatpipes orientated one way (at the top or bottom, I'm not sure), whereas with my Coolermaster HAF XB EVO case, which keeps the motherboard horizontal, it's obviously not possible to orient the heatsink like this, so that will affect what heatsinks I can use.

That issue may be true (pun not intended) when the heatpipes tips are located at a lower height than the heatsink base, with reference to ground, so that, in your setup, any tower cooler should play safe.
Broadly speaking I can't speak about the True Rev. C, but the 212 is just an average cooler with a sub-average fan, which gives acceptable results with Sandy and a bit less good ones with Ivy/Haswell (IMO/IME: I don't remember exact figures for the AMD AM3 platform, but as far as I recall cooling prowess wasn't that great on an old X4-940BE).
So I don't think it will perform remarkably well in your case: on the other hand, at the low airflows the True wasn't the better performer too (as you know: you can also check some old SPCR reviews, on HR01 Plus, Ninja and other contemporary coolers), so the only thing I can say is YMMV (personally I'd bet onto the Thermalright).


doveman wrote:
I'm not even sure I've got the correct mounting hardware for the TRUE and the Socket 1150 on my Asus Z97-A motherboard but maybe I can buy that separately if it's a significantly better cooler (EDIT: Seems there is no mounting hardware for the TRUE and 1150).

The VX BTK II Bolt-thru mounting kit is your friend, if you mind.


doveman wrote:
I'll want to run the fan quietly with my G2 PSU though, except for when I'm gaming/stressing the CPU and need to keep the temps under control.

Given that I don't remember which CPU fans you actually use, as said, my somehow educated guess is that the 212 won't give you any sizable advantage over the True C.
In case you may need a more modern/performing heatsink, and the cheapest around nowadays should be the Scythe Kotetsu (other alternatives may be another TR, like the True-M 120, or the Macho 120: at least, in Italy they are relatively inexpensive, but they deserve a fan swap).


doveman wrote:
I've already got some MX-2 TIM I can use. I think I've still got some AS5 as well but I don't think that's as good.

Never got any really noticeable advantage by any TIM on air (and I used several ones, including exotic ones with diamond or liquid).
Looking at a price-wise options, probably today I would give a try to either the Ceramique 2 or the AC MX-4.


doveman wrote:
It seems the Hyper 212 Plus is only 3-4c hotter than the best heatsinks though, for around 50% of the price, so hopefully that will be sufficient for a modest (around 4.2-4.3Ghz) overclock).

I already gave you my advices about: I would look elsewhere, and anyway, to one or two fans to swap the original CM one.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:41 pm 
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doveman wrote:
Rockfella wrote:
750W PSU for a non gaming PC sounds weird. Lower wattage PSUs work better for non gaming PCs as the PSU has to be substantially loaded to get optimum efficiency. I think you should use it for yourself and get a low wattage one for your dad along with a fractal design entry level cabinet.


My Dad's PC is a gaming one, albeit only X-Plane and he might only be pulling 350W unless he adds a second GPU but at least he has the option. I mainly got the CX750M as it was on offer at a decent price for a 750W, modular supply. It won't be quiet enough for me, so I've bought myself the eVGA G2. My Dad's case (NZXT Source 530) is bought and isn't going to change either.

Woah! Nice 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:24 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
No, I was meaning that the very same Lambdatek sold the G2 at much more money than they sold the L8, and that was a reasonable clue that the first one was better than the latter.


Ah gotcha, makes sense now :)

Quote:
I hope that it will thoroughly satisfy you: as an addes bonus, if anything shouldn't be that good, I guess you can return it very easily (and usually with no penalties) with Amazon.


Thanks, I'm sure it will but as you say, always nice to have Amazon's returns policy in case of problems (not so nice that they avoid paying tax everywhere though!)

Quote:
That issue may be true (pun not intended) when the heatpipes tips are located at a lower height than the heatsink base, with reference to ground, so that, in your setup, any tower cooler should play safe.


Ah, that's a nice bonus of my case then, not having to worry about that.

Quote:
Broadly speaking I can't speak about the True Rev. C, but the 212 is just an average cooler with a sub-average fan, which gives acceptable results with Sandy and a bit less good ones with Ivy/Haswell (IMO/IME: I don't remember exact figures for the AMD AM3 platform, but as far as I recall cooling prowess wasn't that great on an old X4-940BE).
So I don't think it will perform remarkably well in your case: on the other hand, at the low airflows the True wasn't the better performer too (as you know: you can also check some old SPCR reviews, on HR01 Plus, Ninja and other contemporary coolers), so the only thing I can say is YMMV (personally I'd bet onto the Thermalright).


Yeah, I'd imagine the TRUE is a bit better but still not great at low airflow, so I'll look at alternatives.

Quote:
The VX BTK II Bolt-thru mounting kit is your friend, if you mind.


Thanks. I'll probably leave the TRUE attached to the current board/CPU and just move that to my other case and get a newer/better cooler for the 4670k but it's good to know I have the option to re-use it.

Quote:
Given that I don't remember which CPU fans you actually use, as said, my somehow educated guess is that the 212 won't give you any sizable advantage over the True C.
In case you may need a more modern/performing heatsink, and the cheapest around nowadays should be the Scythe Kotetsu (other alternatives may be another TR, like the True-M 120, or the Macho 120: at least, in Italy they are relatively inexpensive, but they deserve a fan swap).


I've got an Arctic F12 PWM on there at the moment http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002 ... entries*=0 which is OK but with my current board, doesn't ramp up to full speed under load properly, so it doesn't cool as well as it could (mind you, this was testing with it on the bench, so no case fans assisting). I'll see how it works with the Asus Intel board. I think I've got some Nexus 120mm fans spare as well. I've disconnected the HAF XB EVO case fans at the moment as they're quite noisy but they might be quiet enough with some Zalman resistors I've got and might help with cooling the CPU, along with a Nexus at the rear.

The Macho/120 are probably more widely available here than the Kotetsu and are quite cheap as well, so I'll look at those more, although I need to check it won't block the top PCI-E slot, as if I have two GPUs each taking up 3 slots, it doesn't leave much else free for anything and the top slot might be very useful.

Quote:
Never got any really noticeable advantage by any TIM on air (and I used several ones, including exotic ones with diamond or liquid).
Looking at a price-wise options, probably today I would give a try to either the Ceramique 2 or the AC MX-4.


Yeah, I didn't think there was a massive difference. Only really bought the MX-2 to get away from the risk of conductivity with the AS5. I'll try one of those if I run out though.

Quote:
I already gave you my advices about: I would look elsewhere, and anyway, to one or two fans to swap the original CM one.


Sure. I'll experiment when doing my Dad's build to see if the Arctic PWM or Nexus work better/quieter with his Hyper 212 EVO than the original fans.

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Main: Asus Z97-A, i5-4670k@4.4Ghz, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 4x4GB, eVGA SuperNova G2 750W, Powercolor 6950 2GB GPU, Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SSD, Samsung 2TB and WD 2TB HDDs, Coolermaster HAF XB case

2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:39 pm 
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Can't say I'm very impressed with the eVGA G2 so far I'm afraid. Whilst it's essentially silent in Quiet mode, it randomly ramps up for no apparent reason (browsing, CPU at 5%) and it's very intrusive like that and stays there for a few minutes before going off again. It's does the same when running a game (X-Plane) which is only using 25% of the CPU (one core of my Phenom II X4 955) and 60% of my HD6950, so I wouldn't have thought it was drawing enough to get hot enough to need to run the fan so loud but I could accept it when gaming but not when essentially idle.

Switching to Normal mode, it's quieter than when it ramps up in Quiet mode but still quite intrusive and of course, it may still ramp up faster, although maybe having the fan running constantly will keep it cool enough to avoid needing to spin up the fan faster/noisier.

Certainly a big disappointment after my Antec CP850 :(

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Main: Asus Z97-A, i5-4670k@4.4Ghz, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 4x4GB, eVGA SuperNova G2 750W, Powercolor 6950 2GB GPU, Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SSD, Samsung 2TB and WD 2TB HDDs, Coolermaster HAF XB case

2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:21 pm 
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doveman wrote:
Can't say I'm very impressed with the eVGA G2

I'm very sad to know that, doveman: return it to Amazon, as soon as possible (since that's their major selling point).

To be fair, I am very puzzled because both no review makes mention of this odd behavior, and on monday I've received the original SuperFlower Leadex platform, even if it's a Platinum 650W (and not a Gold 750 like your eVGA), and it's really silent, I've not experienced so far any similar issue.

As I said, return it to Amazon (and give a call to eVGA Customer Support to complain about), and also please accept my apologies for my advice.

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:15 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
As I said, return it to Amazon (and give a call to eVGA Customer Support to complain about), and also please accept my apologies for my advice.


Thanks Luca but I don't blame you at all. You can only go by the available information and either I've got a faulty unit or the reviews were wrong and without your advice I would have probably bought something much worse, electrically if not acoustically :)

I will return it as you suggest. I can put the CX750M back in to keep me running whilst I wait for a replacement but if I'm going to get a refund and buy something else, rather than just swap out the G2 for another, hopefully better, one, it would be better to buy the replacement to put it before returning the G2, as I really should get on with my Dad's build, which the CX750M is for.

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Main: Asus Z97-A, i5-4670k@4.4Ghz, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 4x4GB, eVGA SuperNova G2 750W, Powercolor 6950 2GB GPU, Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SSD, Samsung 2TB and WD 2TB HDDs, Coolermaster HAF XB case

2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:32 pm 
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So I dug through my boxes and found I have:

1*Nexus 120mm D12SL-12
1*Scythe 120mm SY1225SL12M
2*Scythe 120mm SY1225SL12LM-P (PWM)
1*Yate Loon 140mm D14SL-12
1*NB BlackSilentPro 140mm

So I'm wondering how best to divide these between my HAF XB EVO and my Dad's NZXT Source 530 (both running overclocked i5 4670k systems).

The NZXT case accepts 2*140mm/120mm at the front, 1*140mm/120mm at the rear, 2*120mm at the bottom and 1*140mm/120mm on the internal bracket behind the upper HDD cage. It also takes 2*140mm or 3*120mm at the top but I'm not going to use that and will block it off, as my Dad will have his document tray on top of the case.

The HAF XB EVO takes 2*140mm/120mm at the front and one 120mm at the rear.

I've also got to use something on both CPU heatsinks. Currently my Dad's NZXT build has the stock fan on the Hyper 212 Evo HSF, which appears to be detachable from the clip and it comes with an extra clip for mounting a secondary fan at the back, so I could mount 2*120mm to that if it's worth it. I imagine a Scythe PWM might be the best to use on there.

I'm not sure what heatsink I'll be getting for my own build yet but it'll probably be best to use the second Scythe PWM on that.

Then I can put a 140mm at the front of each case. I'm not sure which is the quieter of the two but I'm far more sensitive to noise than my Dad is, so I need to use the quieter fans for my own build. I'd guess that the NB BlackSilentPro is quieter than the Yate Loon.

That will leave the Nexus 120mm and the Scythe 120mm, so I could use those for the rear exhausts, with the Scythe probably having the edge over the Nexus.

I guess the front intake is more for providing airflow over the HDD/chipset as the CPU fan will draw in the air it needs without needing it blown towards it. With the HAF case, the front fan will be right next to the motherboard, so will blow directly onto it, whereas with the NZXT case it'll be in front of the HDD cage, unless I mount it in the upper position and remove the HDD cage behind that (which I can do, as my Dad only has two HDDs and that will leave three slots), or else I could mount the fan on the internal mount, behind the HDD cage, although perhaps then it will blow mostly around the RAM/CPU area, whereas on the front it will distribute the air over the lower half of the board a bit as well. I'm not sure it's really necessary to have a fan blowing over the HDDs but I guess it might help to keep the temps down a bit. I can always get another fan (140mm or 120mm) to add to my Dad's case (at the front or internal) if that will be useful.

I won't be doing my own build for a while yet, so I just need to decide what to do with my Dad's build for now, as it's only a couple of weeks until his birthday. So if you've got any suggestions on what would be the best approach, please do share them.

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Main: Asus Z97-A, i5-4670k@4.4Ghz, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 4x4GB, eVGA SuperNova G2 750W, Powercolor 6950 2GB GPU, Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SSD, Samsung 2TB and WD 2TB HDDs, Coolermaster HAF XB case

2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:06 am 
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doveman wrote:
so I could mount 2*120mm to that if it's worth it. I imagine a Scythe PWM might be the best to use on there.

Sorry, I forgot about your questions, and I'm afraid it's too late for your dad birthday: anyway, IMO/IME it doesn't worth a push-pull on the 212.


doveman wrote:
Then I can put a 140mm at the front of each case. I'm not sure which is the quieter of the two but I'm far more sensitive to noise than my Dad is, so I need to use the quieter fans for my own build. I'd guess that the NB BlackSilentPro is quieter than the Yate Loon.

Probably the NB will be quieter, but the best sound signature belong to the Scythe/Nexus, so I would deserve only those 120mm to your HAF, at first, leaving the 140mm to your Dad.

As cooling strategy I would use just one exhaust on both systems, adding the intakes just in case of serious overheating.

Well, sorry for the late advice and best wishes to your dad (and to you for the new rig).

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:37 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
doveman wrote:
so I could mount 2*120mm to that if it's worth it. I imagine a Scythe PWM might be the best to use on there.

Sorry, I forgot about your questions, and I'm afraid it's too late for your dad birthday: anyway, IMO/IME it doesn't worth a push-pull on the 212.


doveman wrote:
Then I can put a 140mm at the front of each case. I'm not sure which is the quieter of the two but I'm far more sensitive to noise than my Dad is, so I need to use the quieter fans for my own build. I'd guess that the NB BlackSilentPro is quieter than the Yate Loon.

Probably the NB will be quieter, but the best sound signature belong to the Scythe/Nexus, so I would deserve only those 120mm to your HAF, at first, leaving the 140mm to your Dad.

As cooling strategy I would use just one exhaust on both systems, adding the intakes just in case of serious overheating.

Well, sorry for the late advice and best wishes to your dad (and to you for the new rig).


Thanks for the advice and best wishes Luca.

For my Dad's system I ended up using the 140mm Nexus as a front intake, a 120mm Scythe PWM as push on the CPU and the CoolerMaster fan that came with the Evo 212 as pull. I think I left the stock case fan as exhaust but I might have replaced that with a 120mm Scythe as well. I removed the top fan and blocked that intake with some cardboard on the inside of the case and ziptied through the holes but I'll probably replace that if I find something nicer. The intake and exhaust fans I couldn't get to run particularly slow, as the BIOS wouldn't let me go below something like 60% but the CPU fan I could set lower (the extra CPU fan doesn't have a separate setting). They're all running between about 600-900 RPM and whilst not silent, is more than good enough for my Dad so I didn't obsess about it as much as I would for my own system ;)

I think you're right that the CPU doesn't really need the pull fan as well as the push, it didn't seem to make much difference to temps. The exhaust fan is pretty close and probably does much the same thing anyway, so I might remove the pull as there's no point having a potential failure point that isn't doing anything useful.

Whilst testing them, I remembered why I don't like the Scythes that much. Whilst they're quiet at low RPM, they have an annoying ticking noise at high RPM, at least the three I've got do and I do need them to speed up when I'm pushing the CPU, which is why I got the Arctic PWM for my current system (Phenom II X4 955, TRUE Rev.C). I'll probably get some more of those for my new system if necessary as I recall they were quite reasonably priced.

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Main: Asus Z97-A, i5-4670k@4.4Ghz, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 4x4GB, eVGA SuperNova G2 750W, Powercolor 6950 2GB GPU, Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SSD, Samsung 2TB and WD 2TB HDDs, Coolermaster HAF XB case

2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:38 pm 
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I'm also happy to report that I got another eVGA G2 (from Scan instead of Amazon, just in case they had a bad batch and it was only £2 more) and it's working fine in ECO mode and not spinning up at all when under low load (browsing, etc), so clearly I was just unlucky enough to get a faulty one before.

Thanks again for the tip, I would probably have overlooked this PSU otherwise and spent about the same on something inferior.

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Main: Asus Z97-A, i5-4670k@4.4Ghz, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 4x4GB, eVGA SuperNova G2 750W, Powercolor 6950 2GB GPU, Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SSD, Samsung 2TB and WD 2TB HDDs, Coolermaster HAF XB case

2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to Corsair 200R
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:38 pm 
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doveman wrote:
Thanks again for the tip

I'm very glad to hear that, I hope it will be so fine under any conditions (so that you may eventually update your signature :wink: )!

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