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 Post subject: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:26 am 
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Hi SPCR,

I replaced the stock rear fan of a Bitfenix Outlaw case with a Scythe GlideStream (SY1225HB12M), as the stock fan was rather loud, but am finding that the new fan is actually noisier. On its own, the fan is fairly quiet, but when it's installed, it becomes much louder and is higher-pitched. Am I right in thinking it's because of vibrations? I last tried installing the fan with the old screws and have noticed that they don't screw in properly; it's as if they're loose. The fan seems to be secured tight, but maybe it's loose enough to cause the vibrations. When I used the screws that came with the GlideStream (this time as a front fan) (I can't remember how well these screws worked), it sounded even worse.

I plan to look at the build again when I have the chance, but I wanted some insight from SPCR. Is it because I didn't install the fan properly or is the fan itself at fault to some extent? Does anyone have experience with the Outlaw case in particular? I have a feeling the stock fan is also suffering from vibrations, but noise-wise it's not as bad, even though it runs a little faster at 1300 RPM.


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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:50 am 
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Welcome to SPCR.

Does the noise dampen out when you put your fingers on the rear grill? You can decouple fan to case vibration noise by using rubber/silicone fan mounts instead of screws. Here's an example.

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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:34 am 
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Thanks Steve.

The noise doesn't dampen when I put my fingers on the grill. When I put my whole hand on the grill, the fan actually got a lot louder. I didn't think it would make such a difference, but it makes sense. Now that's lead me to believe the problem was with airflow all along. I said the noise was worse when I installed it as a front fan, but I think that's because it was configured to be an intake fan versus exhaust when it was in the rear. I confirmed it's nothing to do with using different screws. That difference in airflow surely made the difference.

So unless I'm mistaken, the Outlaw and the GlideStream don't go well together.


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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:26 pm 
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So, turbulence noise. You can:
- reduce the fan rpm (what are your load temps?) - is the fan hooked up to the mobo / have you set up a fan profile?
- use tin snips to remove the offending grill.

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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:34 am 
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The motherboard (MSI H81M-E35 V2) has a 3-pin header and a 4-pin header. With the former, there's no option for fan control, and with the latter, while I see options, they don't affect the speed at all. I'm using MSI's Command Centre and the different options are 50%, 75% and 100% speed. I don't think this mobo lets you control voltage fans, so I do I have to use some sort of voltage divider?


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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:05 am 
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traditional fan mounting screws that self tap into the fan, can easily be tightened unevenly causing the fan body to become warped. loosen the screws and hold the fan flush tightening each screw just a bit at a time. make sure the fan sits flush/square...but rather than mess with all that, i'd just get some silicon grommets. :wink:

edit: might need to change a bios setting to get software fan control to work. ? (im not an MSI mobo guy, so cant help more)

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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:33 pm 
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Location: UK
xan_user wrote:
...might need to change a bios setting to get software fan control to work. ? (im not an MSI mobo guy, so cant help more)...
This board has two PWM 4 pin headers, one for the CPU and one for a chassis fan SYSFAN1. There is a single 3 pin header, SYSFAN2 but this is what other board manufactures would describe as a PWR header i.e. it supplies the full 12V without control. As is fairly common the CPU header only supports PWM fans; the SYSFAN1 header ought to offer both PWM and voltage control. Agreed the BIOS options do need to be checked because MSI boards usually provides thermal based 3 pin fan control in the 50% to 100% range, equivalent to 6V to 12V. The Scythe GlideStream SY1225HB12M has a 1200 rpm top speed, I would guess that at 50% or 6V the idle speed should be around 700 rpm. But if there really are no 3 pin voltage control options then using a fan such as the Noctua Redux NF-F12B PWM would give a nominal 300 to 1200 rpm range, with idle speeds probably in the 350 to 450 range.


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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:27 am 
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I don't see anything relevant in the BIOS settings. Looking at the manual, pin 2 for SYSFAN1 is marked as "+12V" and pin 4 is "Speed Control". In higher-end MSI boards, pin 2 is "Speed Control" and pin 4 is "NC". That seems to imply this mobo needs a 4-pin connector to control fan speed.

I'm thinking of getting a couple of Zalman RC56 cables.


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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:53 am 
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Location: UK
Yes, it looks like both the CPU and SYSFAN1 are PWM only fan headers. They are supplying a full 12V at all times and a PWM fan would modulate this internally using the control signal supplied by the fourth pin. This is why if you plug a 3 pin fan into either of these headers it will only run at full speed and there are no BIOS control options. Rather than resistor cables you could consider the Zalman Fanmate 2, see picture below, which gives fan control from 5V up. Note that the Fanmate 2 will reduce the top speed of the fan to some degree because it maxes out the output voltage at more like 11V rather than 12V. By buying a 3 pin Y cable and fitting it between the Fanmate and the fans both could be controlled to the same voltage level. It might cost a bit more but it would be more flexible than just fitting each fan with a resistor cable.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:00 am 
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+1 for the Fanmate 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:25 am 
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+2.
Set it, and forget it.

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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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Location: Guatemala
tiq wrote:
The motherboard (MSI H81M-E35 V2) has a 3-pin header and a 4-pin header. With the former, there's no option for fan control, and with the latter, while I see options, they don't affect the speed at all. I'm using MSI's Command Centre and the different options are 50%, 75% and 100% speed. I don't think this mobo lets you control voltage fans, so I do I have to use some sort of voltage divider?
Im sorry im not home to help more, but on both my MSI motherboards, do have similar bios fan control (i dont use nor like the control center). The CPU_FAN header is only able to control 4pin PWM fan headers, from 12.5% to 100%, with 12.5% increments, this is on both my MSI Z87-GD65 and MSI H81i, on the 3pin i know that on my GD65 i can control the SYS_FAN headers with a minimum of 50% with 10% increments (this is voltage control), i dont remember on my MSI H81i as i used only PWM fans connected to a PWM fan splitter and then only connected to the CPU_FAN, ill try to enter the bios on the weekend (probably Sunday) to post a couple of images of what i mean on the bios.

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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:45 pm 
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So today I connected the Fanmate 2 and set the speed to about 700 RPM. Now it's inaudible, but at a very close distance, I can tell that attaching the fan onto the case makes it louder than when it's on its own. I guess I have to remove the grill if I want to solve that, but for now I'm happy with the noise. Thanks everyone!

For future reference, what cases are recommended nowadays for good acoustics? I noticed the recommendations article on this site is a couple years old. Anything new since then, particularly with the smaller form factors?


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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:47 pm 
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For mid-size ATX, I like the Fractal R4. It's on sale at Newegg this week for $80.

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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:40 am 
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Anything in the mini-ITX or microATX categories?


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 Post subject: Re: Noisy GlideStream -- Vibrations?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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Location: Guatemala
tiq wrote:
Anything in the mini-ITX or microATX categories?
On mini itx consider SPCR Fractal Design Node 304 Mini-ITX Case, on micro atx you have some more options, like Fractal Design Define Mini (i believe it used 120mm fans instead of 140s), Silverstone PS07 would also be a decent candidate.

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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