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 Post subject: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:44 pm 
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Hello internet people,

It would be wonderful if i could get some advice on cooling my current system. The PC sits in the living room and therefore the wife would appreciate if it was a little quieter when i'm gaming, however i don't want to sacrifice performance as i play alot of games at high refresh rates on a 144hz/1440p gsync monitor. Ideally starting with the basics e.g. configuring my system and recommending some changes, if that doesn't quite get me there, i'll happily throw some money into some hardware . I'll regularly check this post so fear not, your advice will be noted.

Fan Software : None - everything is controlled by the bios (see picture)

Spec:

Fractal Design Define R4

- All drive cages removed to improve airflow
- 2 x Front intake Fractal Design r2 140mm
- 1 x Bottom intake Fractal Design r2 140mm *set at 5v case fan controller (slowest - 7 & 12v available but noisy)
- 1 x upper exhause Fractal Design r2 140mm *set at 5v case fan controller (slowest - 7 & 12v available but noisy)
- 1 x Rear exhaust Fractal Design r2 140mm

I have a spare 120mm Fractal Design r2/1200rpm fan not in use.

i7 4770k @ 4.4GHz (1.285v)
MSI G45 Gaming (z87) motherboard
Cooler Master Hyper EVO 212
Gigabyte Gaming 1070 +50Hz Core (Gigabyte 1080 Ti G1 Gaming pre-ordered, arriving April sometime)
2 x SSD
1 x HDD
1 x DVDR (i'm old school :lol: )

To give you some insight into temps; on average its ~62 CPU & ~61 GPU gaming load, and ~25 CPU and ~30 GPU idle (fans don't spin)

cpu bios pic Image Fan 1 Image Fan 2 Image Idle : Image 15 Mins full load Image


So i guess over to you, if i've not provided enough info let me know what you need and i'll respond straight away - let the silence commence (just not in this thread hopefully)


Last edited by Hitt0r on Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:02 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R5 / EVO 212 /
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Quote:
i'm going to post HWInfo64 Temps/Fan RPM's idle and gaming - just getting them now


That'll be helpful. I'm curious to see what rpm the cpu fan is running at under load...as well as case fans.

Chances are, you could turn off the top and bottom case fans without much impact to temps.

If the gfx card is maxing out at 62C while gaming, it implies you could try setting a slower fan profile for them using MSI Afterburner or similar utility.

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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R5 / EVO 212 /
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Forgot to add, i've cleaned out my PSU and all dust filters. The PSU was really struggling to get air in and the fan was very loud as i neglected to clean the dust filter for 6 months.

PSU: XFX 850 Pro Bronze (seasonic)

I realised that i was using a fan splitter cable to run the front 2 fans from a header, i've removed the splitter so SYSFAN_1 is the exhaust fan. SYSFAN_2 + 3 is the front fans i've set CPU and SYSFAN max temps to 80 degrees.

What type of custom fan curve would you suggest in MSI afterburner ? wouldn't it be great if you could see what the stoc settings were for auto.


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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:34 pm 
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What steve is suggesting is what i would do, download MSI afterburner or Gigabyte alike, to allow the GPU fans a more relaxed climbing of the fans, allowing 70C+ (probably aim at 80C at max), this you will achieve it by testing different settings with the graph. This should lower your noise levels when you game, at the expense of higher temps.

The CPU temps are also fairly good and you are allowing the fan to reach 1400rpms, you should relax the graph more on the bios, aim at 1000rpms or less (on load) would be my suggestions and see how the temps are in gaming. Else you can try re doing the paste, although the temps seems fine, i dont think this would help much. Another thing is get a cooler that can handle you overclocking better, probably something like Thermalright Macho RevB, the fan plays nice with MSI G45/65 bios, start the CPU_FAN bios graph at 37.5% with a temp of 50C and the second try 75% or 87.5% and 75C/80C/85C, and go play see how are your temps.

Also check if you do benefit from overclocking the 4770K, its already a 4ghz stock, should be fine in most games, OCing will increase the temps, and thus the need for higher rpms. Another thing you could do on the CPU is deleding it, personally i fear the process, but i seen first hand a friend that dropped 10C doing it, still for me its not worth the risk, but each to its own.

Quote:
Gigabyte Gaming 1070 +50Hz Core (Gigabyte 1080 Ti G1 Gaming pre-ordered, arriving April sometime)
Im going to suggest against if you want quieter setup, the GTX1080Ti is going to run hotter than a GTX1080 and GTX1070, thus you are going to need better cooling or higher rpms, personally im stil debating if the GTX1080Ti is worth it or not, usually first gens are cooler and not really stress as the Ti are, but up to you, if you feel you going to gain a better experniece gaming and willing to take the risk of higher noise levels, go for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Ok - you have a lot of high speed fan action going on...I think there are three basic problems:

1) The 212 Evo can't handle the heat load of your OC'ed i7 without driving the cooler fan (and coupled case fans) to effing high rpms. If you go with a better cooler, you should be able to get lower load temp at much much lower rpms. Something like the Scythe Ninja 4.

2) Are the case fans coupled to the cpu temp? Instead, set them to whatever motherboard sensor is available. Go for flat min speed until case gets to 35C. Then slope up from there. This will make the case fans mostly inaudible and not ramp up/down quickly with cpu...that's the cooler's job. Also, disconnect the top and bottom fans.

3) gfx card rpm: this is trial and error. Don't know what your min (on) fan speed is. Try setting 30% up to 65C and for 80C+ 70% fan speed. Goof around in-between until you get something that doesn't slide up and down in rpm and drive you crazy.

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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:47 pm 
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...and as Abula pointed out, do you really need a 250W gaming card for 1440P 144Hz?

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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Hi Chaps,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

The CPU fan ran on average 1130 RPM (~56% max fan speed) for an average temperature across all 4 cores of 68c. I've just been into the bios and manually tested what 50% sounds like and 70% - there's no difference at 50% but more noticeable at 70% (with the side pannel off) i will definitely look into both the Ninja 4 and the Macho RevB as an alternative.

Good spot with the high RPM's on the sytem fans! :) 2915 RPM was unrealistic on a 1000 RPM fan, so after checking i've identified problem was the splitter was causing them to throw out incorrect RPM readings. i've removed the splitter and provided a sys_fan header for both 2 x intakes and 1 x exhaust and they are bound to the system temperature- good work guys thanks! :)

I play games like ghost recon wildlands, deus ex mankind divided and they are very taxing on the GPU @ high refresh rates. So for GPU performance @ 1440p 144hz Gsync i'm going to need a 1080 Ti - i owned a MSI 1080 Gaming X and that couldn't cut the mustard so i sold that and bought a 1070 whilst waiting for the Ti to come out. I must agree with you Abula the Ti's do run very hot (i've owned several variants of a 980 Ti / SLI)

I'll look into a custom fan profile, i can see that the fan ran at 1631RPM ~40% Test: Image

The fans aren't supposed to activate until 60c (and that was the GPU average during gaming load ) so it would make sense trying 30% for 65C and working my way up from there, thanks CA_Steve.

I think one of the loudest components is possibly the PSU. i'm going to disconnect all fans except CPU and see how loud it is on its own - i have a feeling this is the loudest component.

Edit : Can i replace the fan on the EVO 212, if so which one do you recommend? - the heat sink is pretty good by all accounts.


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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Quote:
Can i replace the fan on the EVO 212, if so which one do you recommend? - the heat sink is pretty good by all accounts.

A replacement fan won't fix the problem. The Evo 212 is a fine mid-tier cooler for people that don't OC or don't care about the noise level if they do OC. Otherwise, it's surpassed by more recent designs.

I run my R4's case fans at 500rpm idle with a very slow ramp. The CPU fan idles around 465rpm and with Prime 95 small FFT stress load it goes up to around 900rpm. Gaming is less and I don't hear the CPU or case fans - just the gfx card.

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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:15 am 
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Hi mate,

If i stick with the 3 x intake (1 x bottom 2 x front) should my 1 x exhaust run faster to remove heat quicker? My hypothesis is as heat rises from the GPU ill need to remove the warmer air quicker ?

Just opening my pc case up now to see if the PSU is the loudest fan under load.


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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:12 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
A replacement fan won't fix the problem.

Something like this (or maybe this) would do that, in case. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:54 am 
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Location: UK
Hitt0r wrote:
If i stick with the 3 x intake (1 x bottom 2 x front) should my 1 x exhaust run faster to remove heat quicker? My hypothesis is as heat rises from the GPU ill need to remove the warmer air quicker ?
Yes, that's correct. And for a 1080Ti you could consider using the side fan position to feed cooler intake air directly into the vicinity of the GPU. Combine that with an another exhaust fan in the top rear fan position as well and under gaming conditions it should help to keep GPU fan speeds (and noise) down. I don't know how much motherboard fan control you have. If a combination of the motherboard BIOS and/or software will allow it, these two potential additional fans may be able to be configured to only come into play when the system is under gaming stress.


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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:03 am 
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@CA_Steve

I'll invest in a better CPU cooler in that case thanks for the advice.

At idle these are the loudest components

1. PSU
2. HDD
3. Fans

At Load

1. GPU
2. PSU
3. CPU Fan
4. HDD
4. Other Fans

I'm seriously considering investing some money into a higher quality PSU (600w fanless if possible!?) - any advice?

** Update on fan placement **

I removed the top 2 fans and covered the vents with the supplied square sound damping things. I have 3 x intake and 1 x exhaust fixed at 50% ~600 RPM. My CPU is set to 40C min @ 12.5% & 75C max @ 100%.

Image

CPU: Average Temp 63C @ 1345 RPM
GPU: Average Temp 62C @ 1759 RPM (Auto profile) - i've not touched the fan profile yet, i'm working on 1 component at a time therefore minimising any variable factors.
System Temp : Average 38.7C (Fans auto 50% @ ~600 RPM)

I'm going to increase RPM to 70% on the exhaust and see how that helps temps... brb

@quest_for_silence

if i De-lid the 4770k what realistic temps can i achieve ?


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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:42 am 
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Image

Results:

CPU : -2C -76RPM
GPU: -1C -97 RPM
System: -3.2C +268RPM.

Increasing exhaust fan by 268RPM has lowered temps. Ideally i'd love to have digital thermometer to be able to calculate delta of room temps however this has created an ever so slight increase in sound.

@lodestar

I don't have a side mount for the fan as it's a windowed case - but good advice none the less.

i'm going to re-install the top exhaust fan in addition to the rear, then reduce both fan speeds down to 50% (minimum allowed in the bios) ~600RPM then post the results...brb


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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:09 am 
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Image

Results:

CPU : -0C -14RPM
GPU: -0C +37 RPM
System: =0.7C rear exhaust reduced by -200 RPM. Added 2nd top exhust +600RPM.

Next im going to remove the bottom intake fan and check results, brb again lol


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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:36 am 
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Image

Results:

CPU : +2C +57RPM
GPU: -0C +59 RPM
System: +0.6C (no bottom fan)

Conclusion - Best performance is 2 x Exhaust 3 x intake (all low RPM)

It looks like i've exhausted the fan configuration - i'm going to have to invest in a better CPU cooler as already suggested, but i'm very keen on getting a silent high performance PSU ~600 - 700W. I'll also replace the HDD with an SSD for an all SSD system.


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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:41 am 
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Hey all this fan configuration testing is good practice for when you replace the CPU cooler, PSU, and gfx card and get to do it again :).

Corsair RM650x (passive for lower loads) is a decent choice as is be quiet! Straight Power 10 (always on, but inaudible fan)...there are potentially others depending on your country and how much you want to spend.

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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:48 am 
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@ca_steve lol @ the practice :-)

Is there such a thing as a completely silent psu i.e no electrical or fan noose under load ? Im from the uk and i dont mind spending high end noney to get high end silence


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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:18 am 
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The two PSU's I listed above haven't had issues with electrical noise that I'm aware of. I wandered over to pcpartpicker.com's UK build set. Here's the two with likely vendors. Your stressed load with a 1080 Ti will be around 400-420W. Heavy gaming load should be closer to 350-360W.

The Corsair may be passive over your loads...even if the fan does come on, it'll be around 600rpm...and won't be heard over the gfx card. The be quiet!'s fan is always on, but it starts at 300rpm or so and is inaudible over your use range.

I'd also suggest you hold off on the 1080 Ti purchase until there's a solid group of reviews. Your current choice may or may not be decent.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

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 Post subject: Re: Make me quieter: Define R4 + EVO 212 (overclocked PC)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:39 am 
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Thanks i'll look into some reviews on those PSU's.

Im in a predicament, i ordered the Gigabyte Turbo version but they used the windforce image so they upgraded me at no extra cost to the windforce G1 version. ~£70 difference here in the UK.


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