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 Post subject: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:30 pm 
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Hi all, I am new here and not sure whether this post should go into the "Newcomers" or "System advice" category, so if I am wrong here, please move.

I already did quite some research for my personal build and have also identified rather clearly what I will need and use my computer for. However, I would like a bit of advice. As a background, I built my last computer in 2012 (CoolerMaster Silencio 550, i7 3770K with Arctic Freezer 13 Pro, Sapphire Radeon 7850, Samsung SSD 830 128GB, WD Green HDs, and the awesome SeaSonic X-460 fanless power supply). It was a good build and reasonably quiet, but I guess I could have done better with a bit of fan speed optimization. 2.5 years ago, I went abroad and sold that machine, currently I am using a MacBook Pro 13" (i7-5557U, 16GB RAM, 512 GB SSD) which is fine, but I need more computing power (besides that, it gets very loud when actually doing something taxing on the CPU and I don't specifically like MacOS, it is a work machine).

So the computing needs I have are mostly related to my photography (Nikon D800, 36MP, 40+MB per RAW file). I mostly use Photoshop and Adobe Camera RAW. HDR is something I sometimes do, as well as using the Nik filters like Color or Silver Efex. I use stuff like Hugin to make panoramas and also 360-degree panos of the night sky, and want to in the future make more use of Lightroom. Of course, I need to store and organize my photos (including backups). At the moment, I am sitting on something like 1.5TB of photos in total, accumulated over the years and not very well sorted (on two external 4TB hard disks that are mirrored). Furthermore, I do some light gaming (Path of Exile, Cities:Skylines, maybe Starcraft II and potentially others in the future).

My MacBook is simply too weak to handle all these tasks in a comfortable manner (and reflective screens suck). Thus, I want to build a new computer such that organizing and editing photos is going to be more fun again. In terms of noise, what I want to achieve is:

- inaudible in idle / while surfing the web
- quiet when editing photos (taxing the CPU)
- reasonably quiet when gaming

It does not have to be perfectly inaudible at all times, but it should be, well, reasonably quiet and ideally make less noise than my last build (that should be doable).


The build I have come up with so far:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/sPXMr7 (doesn't include the card reader)


Screen: LG 34UM88-P
34" 21:9 screen with lots of screen real estate and 3440x1440 resolution (and one of the cheapest ones with such parameters). I will use some calibration device such as a Spyder to get the colors right.

Case: Fractal Design Define R5
Guess this is a good and rather standard choice. Can also mount a window side panel for the days where I don't want super quiet but want cool looks.

CPU: i7 7700K
Unfortunately, both PS and LR do not use multiple threads very well. So what I will need is single-core performance. I would really have liked to go with a Ryzen R7 1700 or R5 1600 or so, but the single-core performance of those seems to be weak, and PS/LR tests of them don't look too good. I also don't expect Adobe to figure out their multi-core performance any time soon, since they have not in the last 10 years. Hugin does seem to have multiple threads and would profit, but is that enough to justify a Ryzen? Not sure. Question is also: Would a i7 7700 be better / significantly easier to cool quietly?

CPU Cooler: Thermalright Macho Rev. B
Seems like a decent cooler to me, I do not plan to do strong overclocking and it is easily procured here in Switzerland. Also seems to be very quiet when the CPU is idle, and it matches the color scheme of the rest of the build (not that important, but nice).

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-270X Gaming Ultra
Modern board that fulfills my needs: Fan control, 270X Chipset (so I can use faster RAM, which helps both PS and Hugin I assume, and potentially OC my processor in the future), optical SPDIF out (would like that), and 2 internal USB3 headers (one for the case, one for an internal card reader). Als fancy lighting ;).

RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB), 3000 Mhz
Affordable, low-profile RAM modules that should be enough for photo editing (might update to 32GB later if I need them) and should be nice and fast for memory-heavy tasks like panorama stitching.

Storage: Crucial MX300 525GB M.2 SSD + 2x WD Red 3TB
It seems to me that the new M.2 NVMe SSDs do great in theoretical performance benchmarks, but in practice are actually not that much faster than 6GB/s SATA SSDs. Furthermore I will in most cases be bound by other speeds (copying from SD/CF card, copying to internal hard drives), such that a (cheaper) SATA drive should be enough. The Crucial SSD will harbor the OS and temporary data / games (as well as the PS scratch disk), while the two WD Reds will run in RAID 1 for better data safety (I know this is not a backup). I might at a later point move the WD drives to an external NAS. I will then backup to external 4TB drives.

Graphics card: MSI Radeon RX480 Gaming X 8GB
Supposedly one of the most quiet RX480 on the market. A GTX1060 would potentially be more quiet (lower TDP), but doesn't work with the FreeSync of the screen, which I'd like to try. In idle, the fans are off anyways. Will probably wait a bit though, and start by using the i7 onboard graphics.

Card reader: Icy Box IB-867
Not sure about this one. Would not have enough internal USB2 connectors, but that's not that important (I would leave 2 USB2 unused). I definitely need some kind of USB3 card reader and I'd like to have one that is internal. The fast charging point is nice (a USB-C fast charger would be even nicer).

Power supply: Corsair RMx 550W
This is likely more power than I need, but it seems to be a high-quality PSU and very quiet (fans off until about 350W or so). Exactly what I want.


I might add a third case fan in the front to get a bit more airflow and to make sure I have positive pressure in the case. Unfortunately I will not be able to move the HDD case to the top (blocked by card reader), if I understood this correctly, so one of the fans would be blowing through the HDD case.


Anything I could / should improve? Anything I overlooked? I will be purchasing all components in Switzerland, so anything you recommend should be available there (and I use the Swiss prices when deciding on what to buy). Any tips are appreciated, thanks :).


EDIT: Had forgotten about the RAM...


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:34 am 
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Seems you have done your homework well, all seems pretty good components.

Only real suggestion that i have is for the extra fan, i would consider Thermalright TY-147Asq, identical fan to the one that comes in the macho rev b, but its on 140mm frame so it will be easy to install, also will follow the R5 color theme with black n white, it will look well as a hole. I would probably move the back fractal fan to the front, so you have both of the 3pin fans on front and the thermalright fan to the back exhaust.

When you finish your build, if you have the time, share with us, how low were you able to drop the Fractal fans with the bios please, and also the thermalright fans, im interested to see how it works in both 3pins and pwm control.

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Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | SimMi


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:53 am 
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Welcome to SPCR.

I guess the big question of the day that I don't have an answer to is - what about HDR support?
- theoretically, the RX 480 supports 10-bit HDR over Displayport (1.4).
- your panel supports 10-bit (8-bit +FRC)...I'm guessing over Displayport 1.2? and Thunderbolt...

case: ok

CPU: yeah, these two apps like fast clock over many cores/threads. In fact, a speedy i5 does nearly as well. Puget has other great articles you might like (Ryzen comparison, for example). In any case, you can decide on how much you want to pay vs the performance gain. I wouldn't worry that much about cooling a stock clocked i7. Yeah, the i7 K will run a little hotter than the non-K.

cooler: Yep, a decent cooler. There's also the Scythe Ninja 4.

mobo: ok. Don't know if you are planning to go Hackintosh or not..in the past, Gigabyte has been the preferred vendor for that. Gigabyte finally upped their game with this year's mobo's by upgrading the BIOS level fan controls. Have NOT see a decent review of these controls, though, to see how well they are implemented.

RAM and the speed thing...: baseline for Kaby Lake is 2400. I haven't seen any definative controller/ram speed tests for this gen, yet. With Sky Lake, there was some minimal benefits creeping up to 2400 or 2666 with moderate builds. If you have both an extremely fast PCIe SSD (like Samsung 850 Pro) AND a top end GPU, AND you did memory intensive tasks, then there was some benefit to 3000 speed RAM. Don't think you are in this category. I'd look for the sweet spot before the price curve does a hockey stick..if it's a few bucks more, fine. A lot of bucks is not worth it.

Storage: I like the MX300 as a fast data SSD...but prefer the Samsung 850 EVO for OS/Apps...also a great s/w toolkit. M.2 PCIe vs SATA: Yeah, it can be faster, but not sure if the Crucial part is tuned for it. If you want faster, there's the Samsung 960 Evo. I guess you'd need to look at how much time you spend importing files vs editing them. If you spend a fair bit of time editing, then it might be worth the upgrade.

gfx card: see above for 10-bit stuff...for lighter weight gaming, the RX480 could do ok at 21:9 1440...I guess this is where Freesync would shine. MSI is a good pick. AMD's Vega architecture cards are due sometime this year...something's expected in 1H...I'm guessing June for Computex. So, there might be higher perf cards available in Q3.

card reader: no opinion.

PSU: a good choice. There's also the fan-alway-on-but-inaudible be quiet! Straight Power 10 series.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Thanks for your replies, much appreciated :).

I had thought to buy a third fan like the R5 case fans, but the suggestion to use one like on the cooler might be even better.

As for 10bit displays, that is a good point. I think I will have to read about that and check about that, but I was under the impression that only the Nvidia Quadro cards could actually do that properly. Maybe I was wrong...? I don't actually need HDR I think (as it doesn't print on paper anyways, and I process my images for later printing), but less problems with potential banding would be nice.

I kind of don't want to go for an i5 cause the i7 is in fact faster, and I plan to use that CPU for the next 4+ years if I buy one today. Hyperthreading might come in handy for a few things. If I can afford a camera for 2.2k EUR, I should be able to afford a decent computer as well, I guess. I will definitely not go Hackintosh, I'd prefer both Windows and Linux over Mac OS (which I have to use for work, and never really got used to).

As for the RAM, thanks for the advice. The 3000Mhz sticks currently are 128 CHF, while the 2133Mhz version is 122 CHF. At that point, I might as well go with the 3000Mhz version.

The Crucial SSD is M.2 form factor, but it uses SATA as protocol, so it won't be faster. The NVMe (i.e. PCIe) M.2 SSDs are a lot more expensive, and I would probably have to go with a 256GB version - which is probably fine, but 500GB is of course nicer. I will do more editing than copying around (and while copying I don't think the SSD will ever be the bottleneck), but I have not seen a single non-synthetic (application) benchmark where the NVMe SSDs were faster by more than 5%. So I don't quite see the benefit. Maybe for saving files? Could also go with the Intel 600p which seems to do great for short bursts of usage, but pretty bad once the buffer is full. Any reason you prefer the Samsung? Would you rather use a 2.5" or an M.2 form factor if you could choose (both being SATA protocol disks)?

Vega will probably be the high-end cards, and thus not very interesting for me. But I'll wait until the RX500 series appears, might bring some price erosion. RX480 would also shine if I decide to get a 1080p projector, which is something I am at least thinking about.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Samsung vs Crucial: mostly personal preference. Some slight speed benefits, Samsung's toolkit doesn't use Java as opposed to Crucial (unless Crucial rewrote theirs...).

SSD form factor: 2.5" keeps the SSD controller chip cooler than M.2. Probably not an issue for either of these models (is a potential issue for higher performance PCIe based SSDs...to the point where there's a trend toward new SSDs with copper foil adhered to the top of the chips as a heatspreader/sink. Upside of M.2 is two less cables and a device in a drive cage.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:49 am 
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I see. In that case, I might just go with a non-M.2 SSD behind the motherboard tray. I will also look into the Intel 600p again. In any case, that will be the SSD the operating system will be on, plus any photos I will be at the time working on (and the PS scratch disk space).

As for HDR, it doesn't seem like the monitor can support it. It can support 10-bit input, and the RX480 can do 10-bit output, but only in fullscreen mode. It seems like the manufacturers love to be imprecise and convoluted about these things, it is pretty hard to figure out what exactly is possible and what isn't (same for color management in general). I guess I will ask about that specific topic in a specialized photography forum.

I also looked at the Scythe Ninja 4, but didn't really see a reason to prefer it over the Thermalright Macho Rev.B, so I'll stay with the second one.

One more question about the PSU: Would you prefer the BeQuiet! Straight Power 10 because the fan is always on? That was the other one I had looked at - but it seemed to me that the Corsair might be a bit more quiet in the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:36 am 
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PSU: It's pretty hard to hear the 200rpm idle fan in the be quiet!..as well as 400rpm or so if you fully loaded your rig. The Corsair will probably stay passive through your load range. So, on one hand it's an always on fan you can't hear vs an always off fan in the other one. <shrug> Either is great. If you decide on the be quiet, be sure to get the modular cable CM version.

I think it comes down to price, warranty policy, e-tailer returns policy.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:13 am 
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I was looking at the figures here:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/beQ ... 00W/6.html

and here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cor ... 484-5.html

Yes, the one is a test for the 800W power supply but even then, the RM550x seems to be much quieter at any load. Not sure it matters, and not sure if an always-on fan wouldn't be better, but still. If there was something like a RM500i, I would probably go for that, but they only start at 650W, which is definitely overkill for what I want to put into the case.

The reviews for the Corsair seem to generally be a bit more favorable, though. So I will probably go with the Corsair.

EDIT: The Corsair seems to also be slightly (about 5 CHF / 5 USD) cheaper in Switzerland.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:42 am 
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For grins, here's ComputerBase's article on the SP10 500. Not to change your mind, just to show the fan profile.

I wish Tom's would show the fan profiles outside of the Hotbox enviroment...

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Char wrote:
Yes, the one is a test for the 800W power supply but even then, the RM550x seems to be much quieter at any load.

There are several, clear differences between an about ~800W PSU and a ~500W one, even within the same lineup.

Starting from the fan: the BQ 800W sports this fan, Silent Wings BQSIW3-13525-HF (12 V, 0.56 A, 2100 RPM, Fluid Dynamic Bearing), while the BQ 500W sports this other fan Silent Wings BQSIW3-13525-MF (12 V, 0.4 A, 1200 RPM, Fluid Dynamic Bearing).

So what did you compare? Apples and oranges?


Char wrote:
Not sure it matters, and not sure if an always-on fan wouldn't be better, but still. If there was something like a RM500i, I would probably go for that, but they only start at 650W, which is definitely overkill for what I want to put into the case.

No, the RMi has a minimum fan speed of 40%, so an hypotethical RM550i running always on would be noisier.

All in all, at your expected power draw the two units (SP10 500 CM / RM550x) are virtually indistinguishable, noise wise.

Said that, pick the Corsair, not because it's quieter but because it offers a better value: less money, longer warranty, highish parts selection but the fan (the six pole motor or the electronics on the BQ fan costs way more than the whole Corsair fan).


CA_Steve wrote:
I wish Tom's would show the fan profiles outside of the Hotbox enviroment...

Currently it's not possible, the noise measure is an automated process during the cross load tests, no way the current stroboscope can work on thousands measures.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:54 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
CA_Steve wrote:
I wish Tom's would show the fan profiles outside of the Hotbox enviroment...

Currently it's not possible, the noise measure is an automated process during the cross load tests, no way the current stroboscope can work on thousands measures.

By fan profile, I mean the 10-15 datapoint graph of fan rpm vs power load.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:26 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
CA_Steve wrote:
I wish Tom's would show the fan profiles outside of the Hotbox enviroment...

Currently it's not possible, the noise measure is an automated process during the cross load tests, no way the current stroboscope can work on thousands measures.

By fan profile, I mean the 10-15 datapoint graph of fan rpm vs power load.

Sorry, I wasn't clear (or I didn't get you).

The fan profile is taken in one specific set of measures, the load regulation ones in the hot box. Since these are about a dozen of measures, Aris can take the rpm readings with its 1k scope.

OTOH at lower ambient temp (out of the hotbox) he doesn't repeat this set, he takes only a different set of measures, the crossload one: since the relevant readings are thousands, here Aris digitally logs only the noise measures automatically captured by the microphone (some good news about: he's building his own hemi-anechoich chamber!).

It worths to note that in this case the fan/noise measures may be misleading too: particularly, he often warned that PSU fan controllers more than once went wild during the severe crossload tests (check the Corsair SF-600 review to see a fine example of fan controller going wild).

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:41 am 
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Hi Luca, thanks for those insights. Unfortunately, there seems to be no direct comparison in terms of noise between the two PSUs, so I went for the closest possible comparison. Apples to oranges was the closest I could get ;). But I would have thought that the 800W PSU is (at the same load in Watts, not in percent) is at least not louder than the 500W or 600W version...? In any case, everywhere I read, it seems like the RM 550x is very, very quiet, while there is no such extreme emphasis on the quietness of the BeQuiet! PSU. But yeah, might well be that both are identical in my usage scenario in terms of noise.

As for the hypothetical RM550i, couldn't I just control the fan manually? Or does the control interface not allow to control the fan speeds? Maybe I misunderstood there.

EDIT: As for the graphics card, I guess I will wait to see what the RX500 series brings to the table (if it doesn't bring anything substantial, it might at least bring the RX480 prices down).


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:12 am 
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Luca - thx.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:13 am 
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Char wrote:
But I would have thought that the 800W PSU is (at the same load in Watts, not in percent) is at least not louder than the 500W or 600W version...?

It's a rather common error: actually more than once it's true quite the opposite.
Just for instance, the RM550x is quieter than the RM650x almost always (sometimes the 650W might be slightly quieter between about 270W and about 350W), because the 650's fan is faster, ramps up more quickly.


Char wrote:
In any case, everywhere I read, it seems like the RM 550x is very, very quiet

It is very quiet: it's just you can't hear a 200rpm fan over the RM550x (unless your ear is right above the fan, ok).
It's something already seen here, for instance you may check the SPCR Platimax 600 review (whose fan spins at about 300rpm up to about 400W, IIRC).


Char wrote:
As for the hypothetical RM550i, couldn't I just control the fan manually? Or does the control interface not allow to control the fan speeds? Maybe I misunderstood there.

Unless you wanna void the warranty, you can "manually" control the fan only on RMi and HXi using the Corsair Link interface (you miss the relevant connector on RMx, which uses also a different MCU); but even there the fan controller has a minimum speed built in, and set to 40%.
Therefore, with the fan set as "always on" (the condition to manually control the fan), those PSUs are way louder than when their fan automatically starts in semi-passive mode (I mean, well below that 40%).
I know there's a way to hack the Corsair Link in order to lower that threshold, but it's not a reliable method, and particularly if AC mains were cut (a black out, you toggled the rear switch, and so on) you loose the override setting.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:11 am 
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Char wrote:
EDIT: As for the graphics card, I guess I will wait to see what the RX500 series brings to the table (if it doesn't bring anything substantial, it might at least bring the RX480 prices down).
Personally i think its just going to be a rebrand of the current line. There are some rummors about a new 14nm lower power manufacturing that might make it to RX5XX, but no one knows for sure, my bet its going to be the same, maybe a slight bump factory speeds, but nothing mayor. Pricing.... idk maybe, but i dont see much reason, its already postion competively against nvidia, i doubt they will lower more, the only thing i expect is vega on the high end, probably the RX590 / RX590X something like that, maybe even a FURY alike down the road.

Imo for pricing of the RX480 / RX580 to drop, Nvidia needs to drop the GTX1060, and thats not likely. Either way, waiting a few months shouldnt be a big deal to see what they really offer.

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GameMiv3 >> AsRock H170 Pro4 | Intel Core i7-6700K | Prolimatech Genesis + 2x Thermalright TY-147A | Kingston HyperX FURY 64GB DDR4 2133 | MSI GTX1080 Gaming X | Acer Predator XB321HK 4K IPS Gsync | Samsung 850pro 1TB | WD RED 3TB | Silverstone FT05 + 2x Silverstone AP182 | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:49 am 
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Thanks Luca for those extra explanations. Seems like a bit of a tossup between the two then, but I will probably stick with the Corsair.

Apart from that, I don't expect much from the RX500 series either, but if it is a bit more power efficient (due to moving from LPE to LPP, as some speculate) and thus allows for quieter cards, that'd be nice. I can certainly wait until end of April before I buy anything (and I guess the partner boards should come out quickly if it is mostly a re-branding).


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 5275
Location: ITALY
Char wrote:
but I will probably stick with the Corsair.

Just to be overzealous: I hope you didn't get me wrong, I seriously said "pick the Corsair", as it's a much better overall value.

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet build for PS/LR, data organization, little gaming
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:56 am
Posts: 9
quest_for_silence wrote:
Char wrote:
but I will probably stick with the Corsair.

Just to be overzealous: I hope you didn't get me wrong, I seriously said "pick the Corsair", as it's a much better overall value.

No I did not get you wrong, and yes you can be very outspoken, but that is perfectly fine with me, no worries ;) (I am German...).


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