Grouping your quotes by topic again:
Overview:Riok wrote:
Hey, keep us updated with your budget and price list so you can get something cool under 1000€.
The other site I'm consulting has a really nice component list feature with the best prices they can find. Here's the latest version:
1 AMD Ryzen 5 1600 Boxed Wraith Spire koeler € 184,50
1 MSI B350 PC Mate € 83,01
1 MSI GeForce GTX 1060 Gaming X 6G € 349,90
1 Fractal Design Define R5 Blackout Edition € 113,90
1 Scythe Mugen 5 Rev. B € 43,60
1 Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK8GX4M2B3000C15 € 107,95
1 be quiet! Straight Power 10 400W € 70,89
1 Crucial MX300 2,5" 1TB € 273,36
A few suggestions I got there:
They think the case is too big and overkill, and I should go with a smaller one. Maybe the Define C, Define Mini C (micro-ATX), or Nano S (mini-ITX, though that's apparently not a good idea with a big video card) from Fractal Design.
There's apparently an even quieter version of the Scythe Mugen 5: The Mugen 5 PCGH. Has two fans instead of one, but they spin really slowly.
Someone there also suggested the BitFenix Whisper BWG450M, the Seasonic Focus Plus 550 Gold, Seasonic Focus Gold 450W, Corsair RM550x, or still the be quiet! Pure Power 10 CM 400W for some reason.
CPUCA_Steve wrote:
Techspot benchmarks Meltdown and Spectre for the typical desktop PC. If you were building a data server with tons of IOPS, I'd be concerned. For gaming and other typical desktop use, not so much.
Practically no impact on pure calculation, but quite serious impact on big write I/O. Some games do need to read and write lots of data, though. I'm often annoyed by how slow games start up or how long they take to save. Of course those benchmarks exaggerate the issue.
CA_Steve wrote:
Intel leads AMD in terms of performance/watt. The lead is narrower when you compare the 65W class CPUs. In terms of cooling, AMD still uses solder between the CPU chip and heatspreader while Intel moved to a TIM. Net effect is the temps may end up being similar between the two.
I'm not sure what the difference between solder and a TIM is, but it sounds like Intel produces less heat, while AMD is better at moving the heat to the heat sink. Is that it?
I find myself increasingly leaning towards Intel now, although I also have some dislike for them for that secret Minix backdoor that was in the news a couple of months ago.
Maybe I'm overestimating the impact of these Intel issues, but if both architectures are roughly equal, I think I'd prefer AMD. If Intel gives me more power while being easier to cool, and is maybe more reliable or easier to use somehow, then I suppose Intel would be the better option. But those are things I care more about than a few extra bucks.
Olle P wrote:
As for the power/performance ratio I think one needs to look at it on a case-to-case basis.
Generally AMD CPUs draw more power on idle while Intel draw more at full load (while also typically doing more work).
From my consumer perspective the relevant question is how much total energy is drawn during a four hour gaming session or some hours watching Youtube or similar.
This machine will be idling or playing undemanding games a lot, so low power draw on idle is absolutely important. I hate wasting power to do nothing. (One of the reasons I liked my Radeon 3850 so much.)
So that suggests I should go with Intel after all.
Googling about, I came across this claim:
Quote:
if you want more clock, you usually need more voltage, and both conspire to increase power draw. It also goes the other way. Lower clock, lower voltages, lower power. Ryzen isn't clocking high, and the lower ones in each range (like 1600, 1700) are lower clock, lower voltage. Intel quads tend to clock higher at more voltage, like the AMD X CPUs. For thread friendly apps, more cores at lower clock will provide better performance per watt than fewer cores at high clock. Also note the Intel TDP appears higher as they do a LOT more work in AVX2 than Ryzen, which is where they're more likely to hit higher draws. If you exclude that, they are a lot closer in reality.
That suggests Ryzen is actually very power friendly.
MotherboardOlle P wrote:
The Core i5-8400 also seems like a good CPU. Problem is that performance is somewhat tied to the motherboard, and cost thereof.
With good (and expensive) Z370 boards the performance is really good. Power consumption is allowed to go beyond 65W and RAM can be overclocked.
With the coming cheaper chipsets performance will drop because power is limited to the 65W TDP and RAM can't be overclocked. Since these CPUs are also lower binned it's a matter of silicon lottery how much above the base clock that 65W limit will allow for.
Interesting discussion about that
HERE.
That video really sounds like Intel is gaming reviews and benchmarks. I do want to keep power draw low of course, and having more available when needed sounds like a good idea, but this does mean that Intel's performance and TDP are meaningless unless you specify how you're running it.
CA_Steve wrote:
- is analog audio out something that's important to you? Or, do you run digital out to another device?
You mean a headphone jack? Is that not standard anymore? I've got some really nice Bose speakers on my old PC that use the headphone port. I'm not sure if I'm moving those to the new PC or get something new for it, but it's nice to keep the headphone option.
CA_Steve wrote:
- fan control: All of the big 4 have decent bios level fan control now. There are some differences between them. When you narrow it down, it's best to download the manuals and just take a look at the fan control features....as they may vary product to product within a mfgr (eg: the cheapest may not have all of the features of the higher priced ones).
So it's not the brand that matters, but the model. No lazy shortcuts for me there, I guess.
Riok wrote:
Regarding the motherboard: I had a look for the MSI B350M Mortar that's advised by hardware.fr It's a bit cheaper than the PC Mate and seems to have all features. It has 3 extra fan headers, which is perfect.
The fan control window of the BIOS looks very similar to the msi x99a gaming pro board I received which is high end so I think you cannot get a better BIOS.
The manual says it has PWM or DC fan control and a smart fan mode. I don't think you can stop the fans with that one but you can run them very slow. I have experience only with the Asus bios so someone should confirm that.
I'm going to dedicate a separate update to motherboards later. I haven't had the time to look into them myself, but I will check out this one.
Memory:Riok wrote:
As for
compatible memory, the list is hidden here:
B350M Mortar Memory support Ryzen-SeriesThe memory kit you have mentioned is
not in the list. Do tweakers.net have really tested that configuration ?
They're usually really thorough with their Best Buy Guides, and include community feedback. It'd be odd if they included something that doesn't work, but I'll check.
In any case, I think memory is not going to be the hardest choice once I've made the other decisions. But it's good to be careful.
GPUCA_Steve wrote:
Gfx card fans and 60C: net effect is fans only turn on when gaming.
That also depends on the kind of gaming, I assume? Not all my games are heavy 3D monsters. In fact, everything I currently play still runs of that old 3850.
Riok wrote:
MSI GTX 1060 GAMING X
That's a dam good one, I can confirm. This cannot heat up nor make noise ! It just cannot.
The difference with CA_Steve's view is 3Gb or 6Gb. 6Gb is what the card is supposed to have but due to RAM shortage and high price they came with that budget option. 3Gb is if you're on a budget and just want the performance and the cooling.
My budget isn't that tight, and I do care about being future proof. A nice price point is great, but if a bit extra power than I currently need helps this machine to survive for 10 years, then that may be the way to go.
Riok wrote:
GPU are increasing so fast ! Sure for 1080p gaming you could go with a 1050ti. Just play High instead of Ultra to keep good framerates. Here is a bench with a recent game:
Assassin's Creed: Origins GTX 1050 Ti vs. GTX 1060 vs. GTX 1070 vs. GTX 1080Honestly, for The Witcher 2 I already couldn't see a difference between low and high graphics settings. Low settings are fine for me. So I could save money with the 1050 Ti and maybe get a new card when this one reaches its limits.
Case:Riok wrote:
R5
You cannot be disapointed with that case. It felt overkill because I run an i3 and a 1060. While gaming my PSU fan doesn't start and with fans at the lowest speed my temps go around 30°c ! While stress testing both the CPU and GPU I have temps around 60°c with fan speeds you can barely hear. So I felt like a less efficient case would have done the trick with my system, thta's it. It's a bit large, check the size to see if it fits.
Would the Fractal Design Define Nano S work? Or is that too small for quiet cooling? The Define Mini C?
PSU:Riok wrote:
Seasonic
There is so much concurrence now and they all make very good PSU. Seasonic is still the best but it comes with an extra price and not so much difference in the product. When you need 500w silent and cheap they are not the best option. I tried the G-650 but was disapointed. I now have a Corsair RM550x that's semi-passive, has excellent built quality and electric quality and comes with a 10 years warranty ! be quiet! Straight Power 10 is often recommended and cheaper in Europe. The Bitfenix is a less known outsider. EVGA wasn't in my short list.
Semi-passive means the PSU is more Hot. My PSU case is around 38°c and in such a big case as the R5 I don't think it's an issue.
Doesn't more hot also mean it's less efficient? I'll also take a look at the Corsair RM550x.
That makes my shortlist for the PSU: Corsair RM550x, be quiet! Straight Power 10, and the BitFenix Whisper BWG450M. And maybe the Seasonic Focus Plus 550 Gold, Seasonic Focus Gold 450W. I'm not sure why someone still suggested the be quiet! Pure Power when the Straight Power is clearly better.