It is currently Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:22 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Passive cooled CPU and video card in miditower - only 3 fans
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 2:31 pm
Posts: 30
I'm considering to build this hopefully quiet and relatively powerful workstation for a graphic designer. But I am concerned if the airflow will be sufficient for a passively cooled Intel I5-8600K 3.6 GHz and also a passively cooled video card: Palit Geforce GTX 1050 Ti KalmX (4 GB). I will be installed in a Corsair Carbide Series Quiet 400Q. I will replace the 3 x 140mm stock fans (2 front, 1 rear) with Noctua Redux NF-P14s. I have not decided on the PSU yet, but with an Intel i5 and 75W video card, I assume I could find a lower-powered quality PSU.

Any considerations on which CPU cooler, that would fit this setup and airflow efficiency?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Passive cooled CPU and video card in miditower - only 3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 3295
Location: Guatemala
Im cooling an i7 4770K with a NoFan CR-95C Black Pearl Fanless CPU Cooler, on normal load it reaches close to 70C, on prime95 it will throttle over time, but its not a like scenario for me. A bad thing on it is that it will take first 2 PCIe slots, so in most cases the GPU will have to be placed on the 2nd PCIe 16x slot. You can see more details in the cammi build on my signature.

Now thinking the pricing on Nofan95 has gone up too much, and you want a passive CPU cooler, there is the option of the NOFAN CR-80EH, its pricing its pretty decent, but its cooling capability is also lower than the 95, its suppose to able to handle a 80W TDP cpu, and the i5 8600K is 95W, so you might need to delid it and/or undervolt it.

Now you are already adding 3 fans to your setup, a good cooler with a huge surface area with a very low rpm fan will not add any audible noise to your setup, thinking that you might try passive or if you cant a very low rpm setup, then consider Thermalright Le Grand Macho with fan TY-147B, with the fan for sure it can handle the 8600K at very low rpms.

For a quiet and good value PSU consider the CORSAIR RM550X, if you want platinum and willing to pay a little more i would suggest be quiet! DARK POWER PRO 11 550W, and since you are into passive, also check Seasonic PRIME 600 Titanium Fanless SSR-600TL.

_________________
GameMi - Intel i7 8700K + AsRock Z370 Tachi + Asus GTX1080Ti Strix | MiniMi - Intel i7 8700K + ASRock Z370ITX + EVGA GTX1080Ti
StreaMi - Intel i9 7940X + AsRock X299 Taichi + MSI GTX1080 | WorkMi - AMD 1950X + AsRock X399 Taichi + MSI GT1030
ServeMi - Intel Xeon E3-1230 + Supermicro X9SCM-F + 144TB | StoreMi - Intel Xeon E3 1240v5 + Supermicro X11SSM-F + 42TB | CamMi - Intel i7 4770K + MSI H81i + Blue Iris


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Passive cooled CPU and video card in miditower - only 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:58 am
Posts: 43
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Im very interested in hearing your experience with the Palit GeForce GTX 1050 Ti KalmX.
Considering it for my Node 304.

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus Strix-GTX960-DC2OC-4GD5


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Passive cooled CPU and video card in miditower - only 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 2:31 pm
Posts: 30
Abula - thank you for the input. The first suggestion (the NoFan CR-95C) would definitely work. I know I didn't mention a budget, but that cooler is a little too expensive for me. I wouldn't like to undervolt the CPU, to be able to use the cheaper NoFan CR-80EH.

Following your third suggestion, the Thermalright Le Grand Macho with fan TY-147B, I have reconsidered the fanless CPU solution. This one seem like a similar solution and available near me: Dark Rock 3 CPU cooler.

If I choose to add a fan to the CPU, which 1-fan CPU cooler could be considered, if both silence and size mattered? I would prefer to have a smaller cooler, if a fan could compensate for this.

Deer87 - I will report back, but this is only in the planning and a completely new build. But I will report back if I get experience with the card.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Passive cooled CPU and video card in miditower - only 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 3295
Location: Guatemala
johnsby wrote:
Following your third suggestion, the Thermalright Le Grand Macho with fan TY-147B, I have reconsidered the fanless CPU solution. This one seem like a similar solution and available near me: Dark Rock 3 CPU cooler
No its not the same, the Dark Rock 3 is a fine cooler regardless, it is more like a Noctua NH-U14 or even Thermalright True Spirt Power 140, its a cooler with the width of the CPU, the Macho RevB and Le Grand Macho are bigger coolers, you can easily see that they go past the CPU, probably two times on the MarchoRevB and probably more than 3 times on the Le Grand Macho, also the space between fins on the Dark Rock 3, Noctua NH-U14 and True Spirit are very small this in most scenarios is meant for a fan operation and probably with good static preassure, the Machos are different, the spacing between fins is widder thus allowing low airflow even fans with not so good static pressure to have air circulate over them, both were design with passive cooling in mind, the HR02 (MachoRevB) comes form the HR01 that was a passive cooling tower from thermalrigth, the problem is that its not capable to sustain high end CPUs with very high loads, thus the size increased with the HR22 (Le Grand Macho), even it dont have the capability of sustaining a i7 on a load with prime95 on all cores, meanign you still need a bigger heat dissipation area, probably a bigger plate etc, NOFAN95 dont success because of design but out of its massive size that allows it to perform better than the Le Grand Macho under pure passive cooling.

johnsby wrote:
If I choose to add a fan to the CPU, which 1-fan CPU cooler could be considered, if both silence and size mattered? I would prefer to have a smaller cooler, if a fan could compensate for this.
I invite you to check SPCR Thermalright HR-22 CPU Heatsink, in there you will see a very interesting table,

Image

From it you can see all passive coolers being ran passively, i highlighted the half load on prime95 on it so you know its not full load, and you can see how the massive size do matter a lot into trying to go passive, but you can also see the HR22 (Le Grand Macho) is the more capable after the NOFAN95.

The biggest gain on something like the Le Grand Macho vs something like DarkPro3 or NH-U14 or True Spirit is the size and fin separation, this will allow you to run the fan on very low rpms and still be capable to cool your i5 8600K, while with the others you will need higher rpms on the same load.

Now we all are different into what what we feel its acceptable in noise and performance, usually i don't recommend the Le Grand Macho as to me its more expensive than True Spirit Power, but in this case since you want to be as close to passive as possible, i feel its a good fit, you can even try to run it passive on your day to day basis, and if you feel the temps are too high, ad the included TY147B at 300rpms and see form there, i bet you wont need more than 500rpms to keep the i5 8600K with the Le Grand Macho below 70C probably lower if you delid.

Now if you don't have it available near you, then go with the DarkPro3, it will be more than capable to cool your i5 8600K, just it will need a little more rpms than Le Grand Macho, but i bet you will be able to cool it fine while still be very quiet, im cooling a Threadripper 1950X with a NH-U14 TR4 below 1k rpms and its fine with TDP 140W.

Since you mention you have access to the bequiet cooler you probably also have access to their fans, i would recommend to go with Silentwings3 140mm (PWM or 3pin) over the NF-P14S, if your budget allow.

_________________
GameMi - Intel i7 8700K + AsRock Z370 Tachi + Asus GTX1080Ti Strix | MiniMi - Intel i7 8700K + ASRock Z370ITX + EVGA GTX1080Ti
StreaMi - Intel i9 7940X + AsRock X299 Taichi + MSI GTX1080 | WorkMi - AMD 1950X + AsRock X399 Taichi + MSI GT1030
ServeMi - Intel Xeon E3-1230 + Supermicro X9SCM-F + 144TB | StoreMi - Intel Xeon E3 1240v5 + Supermicro X11SSM-F + 42TB | CamMi - Intel i7 4770K + MSI H81i + Blue Iris


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Passive cooled CPU and video card in miditower - only 3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 2:31 pm
Posts: 30
I have decided to go with all Abula's suggestions after some days of thought and research. I appreciate your explanation of the different CPU coolers.

I haven't decided on the memory modules yet but either 2 x 16GB or 4 x 16GB. There’s still some days until I start ordering. For storage only M.2 and 2.5” SSDs will be installed.

This is the list so far:

Case: Corsair Carbide Series Quiet 400Q

Videocard: Palit Geforce GTX 1050 Ti KalmX (4 GB)

Motherboard: ASUS TUF Z370-PLUS (2 x M.2 slots but the design is a little non-standard)

or MSI Z370 Gaming Plus (only 1 M.2 slot but smaller design)

CPU: Core i5 I5-8600K 3.6 GHz

CPU Cooler: Thermalright Le Grand Macho with fan TY-147B

Front case fan: 120mm Noiseblocker BlackSilent XL1 Rev. 1.0

Rear case fan: 140mm Noctua Redux NF-P14S REDUX-900

PSU: Corsair RMx Series RM550x


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Passive cooled CPU and video card in miditower - only 3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 3295
Location: Guatemala
johnsby wrote:
I haven't decided on the memory modules yet but either 2 x 16GB or 4 x 16GB.
Its kinda of a bad time to be looking for 64gb of memory, as the current pricing is at least three times more than a couple of years ago, my suggestion is to start with 32gb and monitor the memory usage, and if you feel you will benefit of adding more, then invest on the same kit again to have all modules the same. Check benchmarks of the programs you will use to see if you benefit from higher speed memory, if you don't or is marginal the gain, my suggestion is to with 1.2V DDR4 2666, my second setup, i build around a MSI Z370 Gaming M5 + i7 8700K, i bought Crucial 32GB DDR4 2666 MHz DIMM Memory Module Kit (2 x 16GB) CT2K16G4DFD8266. Puget Systems recommends it, they use it even with their high end i9 workstations, their philosophy goes like this,

Quote:
In the end, what it boils down to is that our customers come to us because they need a computer that just works, and anything that increases the risk of bluescreens or other system instability is rarely worth a small increase in performance. If we were talking about twice the performance that would change things, but it doesn't take much to completely negate the benefit from any performance gain they would see with higher frequency RAM. A single system freeze that causes them to lose their last few hours of work or intermittent bluescreens that makes their system even a tiny bit unreliable is often more than enough. If you are building your own PC and are willing to take on the potential risks, go for it! But to us, this is one of those times where there is a clear difference between someone building their own PC who loves to tinker with hardware and users who simply need a workstation that lets them get their work done with minimal hassle and annoyance.

If you have time, check the owner talking about memory while building a monster workstation, Building Insane Gaming PC Live Start to Finish, i left it in the exact spot so you dont waste to much time watching 5h video.

johnsby wrote:
Motherboard: ASUS TUF Z370-PLUS (2 x M.2 slots but the design is a little non-standard)

or MSI Z370 Gaming Plus (only 1 M.2 slot but smaller design)
I see in your choices of fans you going with 3pins, both mobos have switchable headers, as default they come as PWM, so remember to enter the bios and switching each header to DC (Voltage control), keep the CPU_FAN header as PWM, set them to smart and place your desire breakpoints (graph behavior of the fan). Now between the two i would go with MSI, i prefer their Bios fan control. Again i don't know what programs you will be using, but there are certain programs that do benefit from having more ssds, like Adobe premier separating the OS from the project and the media cache / scratch. If you are planning on using multiple M.2 and you want to go with MSI, i would suggest to consider the MSI Z370 Gaming M5, but if your programs dont benefit from multiple m.2, then the MSI Z370 Gaming plus is to me the best value board on the market.

_________________
GameMi - Intel i7 8700K + AsRock Z370 Tachi + Asus GTX1080Ti Strix | MiniMi - Intel i7 8700K + ASRock Z370ITX + EVGA GTX1080Ti
StreaMi - Intel i9 7940X + AsRock X299 Taichi + MSI GTX1080 | WorkMi - AMD 1950X + AsRock X399 Taichi + MSI GT1030
ServeMi - Intel Xeon E3-1230 + Supermicro X9SCM-F + 144TB | StoreMi - Intel Xeon E3 1240v5 + Supermicro X11SSM-F + 42TB | CamMi - Intel i7 4770K + MSI H81i + Blue Iris


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Passive cooled CPU and video card in miditower - only 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 2:31 pm
Posts: 30
Thanks again for your insightful answers. It was a great talk about memory in that video, and I will change my list accordingly.

Also thanks you for reminding me about fan control and pins, and how Asus and MSI handles this differently. I never had an MSI motherboard, and find it hard to pick the right one. There will be no overclocking. No need for more than one M.2 disk. No need for LEDS or other fancy plastic. I picked the ASUS motherboard because I have best experience with those.

The 2 case fans was picked reading on this site. The whole "airflow/air-pressure equation", that must be solved theoretically prior to building the PC, is very difficult. I have been used to Antec One (P182) with a lot of room, but I like this smaller case Corsair Carbide Series Quiet 400Q for this new setup.

I have reconsidered the CPU cooler again, and think Noctua NH-D15S with a single fan would be better, as I have also considered another CPU, Intel i7 8700.

Finally I must abandon the Palit 1050 Ti. It is impossible for me to find. Instead I have read, that the Palit GeForce GTX 1070Ti (and similar cards) in fact are passive cooled until a certain temperature. Palit calls this "technology" 0-dB TECH.

I am not sure if I now would need the Corsair RMx Series RM650x (instead of RM550x).

So I have to abandon the "only 3 fans" part for this setup, and the list is now:

ASUS TUF Z370-PLUS GAMING or MSI Z370 GAMING PLUS
Intel Core i7 I7-8700 3.2 GHz
Palit GeForce GTX 1070Ti Dual (8 GB)
Corsair Carbide Series Quiet 400Q
Corsair RMx Series RM550x or Corsair RMx Series RM650x
Crucial 2 x 16 GB (CT2K16G4DFD8266)
Noctua NH-D15S
Noctua Redux NF-P14s
Noiseblocker BlackSilent XL1 Rev. 1.0


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Passive cooled CPU and video card in miditower - only 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 3295
Location: Guatemala
johnsby wrote:
I am not sure if I now would need the Corsair RMx Series RM650x (instead of RM550x).
The hardware you posted will run fine on the 550, now if the price difference is close enough you could go with either, the only thing you lose is when you idling being a little less efficient, but at the same time really depends on each PSU and their design.

johnsby wrote:
Asus and MSI handles this differently. I never had an MSI motherboard, and find it hard to pick the right one. There will be no overclocking. No need for more than one M.2 disk. No need for LEDS or other fancy plastic. I picked the ASUS motherboard because I have best experience with those.
Asus is the most popular manufacturer of motherboard worldwide, close followed by gigabyte, there are tons of people fascinated with Asus, if you feel that way go with it, its a good motherboard. I had issues with their fan control and their restrictions on pure bios, but its one person experience, and i havent tested z270 nor z370, so all could be working great. There are others in these forum, that are happy with their asus mobos with the bios fan control, that leads me to believe that my issues were only with my motherboard (btw i still own it and still has issues with the latest bios with fan control). You seem to be an Asus enthusiast, so my recommendation is go with what you like, don't let me steer into enjoying the brand you grow to love, i bet you will have a good experience, and if not you can always use FanXpert3 that the best software to manage fans from all the mobos manufacturers. That said, im extremly happy with Asrock and MSI, i see no reason for me to go back into Asus, again thats just my personal preferences.

johnsby wrote:
The 2 case fans was picked reading on this site. The whole "airflow/air-pressure equation", that must be solved theoretically prior to building the PC, is very difficult. I have been used to Antec One (P182) with a lot of room, but I like this smaller case Corsair Carbide Series Quiet 400Q for this new setup.
The biggest gains are on the first fan, the second is almost always worth it, not as big gains as the first but substantial for it be worth it, the third fans and so on, is where the diminishing returns kick in, in some cases its worth it in others you adding noise and not really gaining much. That said.... my two main pcs are rocking 8 case fans and the bottom ones do have a very good effect on my GPU, a very similar setup was ran on my FT05 and reach 85C easily on my gpu if i were to leave the fans at 500rpms, boosting them to 800rpms i could sustain around 80C on the gpu, but with the Air740 i can sustain sub 72C without increasing the fans over 650rpms, which is a lot more quieter than FT05... so again really depends on each setup.

johnsby wrote:
I have reconsidered the CPU cooler again, and think Noctua NH-D15S with a single fan would be better, as I have also considered another CPU, Intel i7 8700.
Its up to you, NH-D15S is one of the best coolers on the market, personally for your case, i would think the Scythe Mugen 5 and Thermalright Macho RevB are very good competitive coolers that price wise are much more competitive, and the difference should be marginal. Again if you are a fan of noctua and you really want that cooler, go for it, it wont perform bad, just is an expensive cooler.

johnsby wrote:
Finally I must abandon the Palit 1050 Ti. It is impossible for me to find. Instead I have read, that the Palit GeForce GTX 1070Ti (and similar cards) in fact are passive cooled until a certain temperature. Palit calls this "technology" 0-dB TECH.
Most of the GPUs from Nvidia that come with custom coolers are like this, most fans dont start until certain temp is reached around 55-60C is what most start them. I can vouch for the MSI GTX1070Ti gaming that a close friend just bought and been very quiet even under load.

Good luck with the build.

_________________
GameMi - Intel i7 8700K + AsRock Z370 Tachi + Asus GTX1080Ti Strix | MiniMi - Intel i7 8700K + ASRock Z370ITX + EVGA GTX1080Ti
StreaMi - Intel i9 7940X + AsRock X299 Taichi + MSI GTX1080 | WorkMi - AMD 1950X + AsRock X399 Taichi + MSI GT1030
ServeMi - Intel Xeon E3-1230 + Supermicro X9SCM-F + 144TB | StoreMi - Intel Xeon E3 1240v5 + Supermicro X11SSM-F + 42TB | CamMi - Intel i7 4770K + MSI H81i + Blue Iris


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Passive cooled CPU and video card in miditower - only 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:39 am
Posts: 16
Hi! I was going to sign up anyway but this is relevant so I thought I would do so to reply.

I run a now ancient 2500k which has a 95W TDP, I ran it at 4.8ghz from a Noctua NH-D14 for 5 years, recently, priorities have changed and I require silence.

Just FWIW, I have been running it at standard speed so 3.3Ghz with Speedstep on, under the D14, with no fans, for the last month and it has been doing just fine. You need to have a vent in the top of the case

I have the exhaust fan turned off, the front intake fans I took out completely, and both of the fans on the D14 unplugged. My case is a Carbide 400R so plenty of open mesh for airflow.

My psu is now a Corsair RM650X and this is silent, the fan only comes on at 40C and I have never heard it.

My Gpu is a 690 GTX - going to replace soon, the fan runs at 30% all the time, custom profiles don't work for it. That gpu fan is the only moving part in the entire case. So very quiet but not silent, all my disks are SSD's.

Palit don't have a great reputation for their coolers, Msi, EVGA, Asus, far better, and worth the money. Especially MSI Gaming X/Z models and EVGA ICX coolers.

I'm guessing the cooler would be even better with the fans removed to create space but I left it in case I need to plug them in.

What I would suggest is a D15 or a D14 and set up the fans either using motherboard software or a fan controller, to turn them off completely at idle and then spool up as and when load requires.

Having said that the D14 is not PWM and my board lacks control of 3 pin fans so I just run fanless. 2 hours of gameplay on Arma 3 and no problems.

Even very intensive cpu tasks don't phase it.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group