xg2004, you still have not addressed my concern related to high resolution, high refresh rate analogue image quality retention, or do you simply agree that the issue cannot be solved with any affordable means?

And if you want absolutely silent machines, several members of SPCR are already extremely close to it, including myself, if you have seen my machine, Sigma One, in the gallery (hint, it's a sticky); it is 100% inaudible from any distance of over 1 foot. Twelve point zero inches. Is it absolutely, positively 100% 0db dead silent? No. Would it bother you to have a computer in the room that's completely inaudible (assuming the room itself is nearly dead silent) at any distance of over 12 inches? I don't think so.

Do not doubt our abilities to build machines that are very nearly silent. I do not doubt your ability to do so, and I don't think you ought to doubt our abilities as well. Have you tried? Yes. Have you failed (before moving your machine out of the room)? You say you did. Does that mean we will? Surely it does not, or do you simply think that anything you can't do, we can't do, either?

I sincerely hope that's not your line of thinking.

-Ed

BTW, if your eyes cannot tell the difference between the color fidelity of a good CRT vs. the color fidelity of an LCD display, and/or cannot tell the difference between the image quality of a Matrox graphics adapter at 1600x1200@85Hz vs. the same resolution and refresh rate from a cheap PNY GF3 card, then I can see how you do not understand my statement. You simply have not recognized how much the image degrades when you're trying to push extremely high resolution and refresh rate combos out of a card built with lowest bidder components or multiyard long VGA extension cables made to reach the lowest price point in a retail store environment. What your eyes cannot see, I cannot explain to you. If that's case, I cease my line of argument right here.

BTW, it's called e.SATA, or External SATA, and it is, indeed, an interconnect standard.

-Ed

"Chances are that your remote CPU will be farther from your work position than normal keyboard, video, and mouse connections will support, so you'll need a KVM extender. Its function is to boost the signal enough to achieve reliable performance over a longer-than-usual cable run. Belkin's OmniView CAT5 KVM Extender ($319) supports relocating your CPU up to 500 feet away from the controls and display using standard CAT5 cabling."

What did you mean by you hope my PC is 'folding'? (I don't understand the lingo.)
It's making a lot more noise than it used to, because I've added two case fans running at full pelt, to keep my hard drives cool, and generally help keep the system cool. But of course, I can't hear them unless I'm not in my bedroom!

Actually, most recording studios do put the PC in a different room, I thought I'd made that point earlier.

My point about the monitor was that the noise that bugs me most right now would be there regardless of where I put the box.

I personally don't think this site need be a resource for people who want to move their PC's or put them in isolation boxes. IMO, this is a site for people who want to silence their PC's regardless of location. What more can be said about moving the PC to another space?

I think you are getting a lot of resistance here because you are saying essentially:

1: There is a much easier way to silence your PC than spending time worrying about how loud it is.

2: Moving your PC to another location is easy for most people.

#1 may or may not be true, but it essentially nullifies 98% of the content of this site and the reasons people come here.

#2 is arguable. You keep saying it's easy for most people. Until you personally interview most people, or provide a statistically significant sample, that's just your opinion. I know that only one of my last 3 apartments offered a place to move the PC to, and that was a dusty laundry room right next to a sink, not exactly a prime location.]

I would have no problem with this site containing information regarding PC isolation. I don't think the lack of it is a big problem though, or does a disservice to the community. I have actually moved a PC to the other side of a wall to deal with noise, so I'm not biased against the idea. I just think it's a little too common sense to spend much time on (yes I realsise the irony of that statement after paying enough attention to write 3 posts on the subject).

I'm probably the cheapest stingiest person here, when it comes to spending money on my computers. I've spent maybe $30 per computer, above and beyond the costs of equivalent noisy components, to quiet them down. And that amount is getting less and less with each computer, as I've learned to mod instead of buy off-the-shelf. My current project is entirely made from leftover components.

So no, I do NOT have thousands of dollars invested in quiet computer stuff. I've spent maybe a thousand dollars TOTAL in my lifetime on my PCs.

You're overestimating how much it costs to choose quiet components and underestimating the practical problems with moving a computer to another room. It's a good solution for some people but not nearly as many as you imagine.

This link is not for use by xg2004

Sorry, but when did I ever mention any of the above?
My PC display looks exactly the same as it did before I moved it. I used the cheapest VGA extension cables I could buy, and have 4.5m of them, plus my monitor cable itself. The picture is exactly the same. My monitor is a 19" at 1280 x 1024.
I've also had it at 1600 x 1200 and it looks just as sharp as it did before I moved the PC.

Use a KVM extender...

Then it's not a very good standard, if it can't go farther than 5m. But again - use a KVM extender...

You are almost paranoid about this...
Your concern about analogue image quality is only a problem because of where you have your PC, and your refusal to move it. Fine! Don't move it! Don't move your monitor! No problem!
Nobody is saying you have to!


At last you've finally admitted it. Nobody has a silent PC. Except me.

No, it wouldn't bother me. But what does bother me is having to constantly check what I buy, because of the noise it makes. My solution saves me time and money, and would save everybody else time and money.

I don't doubt that, but I do doubt your ability to build a completely silent PC.


Why not?

The fact that it takes so much effort to find and test components, fine tune, etc.etc. in order to get what is only near silence says it all.
It took me one day to get complete silence.

xg2004, come on down, this link's for you!

Read & learn and you may avoid ending up here!

Come on, by any standard his PC is as silent as yours. It's silent from the distance it's used from--more than 12 inches away. Your computer is silent from the distance it's used from--much further away.

Actually, by that standard my HTPC is silent. It's used from about 12 feet away (second hand IR keyboard).



THAT is the reason why we argue with you. You think that just because your solution works for your extremely limited special circumstances, it would work for EVERYBODY.

Nonsense.

It's official, you're being a troll. So I'll ask you the official SPCR measurement question. How loud is it at 1 meter away?

Also, I should point out that your article also neglects to mention other clever and free techniques for Silencing your PC. How about spinning down hard drives? You're very fortunate to be able to afford 6 reasonably quiet hard drives. Two of my 6 in one machine are absolutely loud. That's because they're old Seagate Barracuda SCSI drives (the kind you can break your foot on). If you are in the Pittsburgh area, I will be more than happy to demonstrate these drives to you and show you how loud they are. Even closing doors doesn't shut out the noise completely. Fortunately, I was able to do some research and learned how to power them down when not in use. One day, I'll be able to afford to replace them with quieter drives.

Oh, and FYI, I rent my apartment, just as you admitted that your solution is hardly ideal for people in small living spaces. I DO have a door, but closing it warms up the room uncomfortably so. That's alright though, because I have another free Silent PC trick I use. It's called opening up the window to the office (also called opening up the window to the train tracks, hospital w/ helipad, and children's playground. I live within 100m of all three and they're all quite loud) and turn on the box fan. Between those two actions, I've never been able to hear my PC. And I don't even have to move it 10m away

No, you don't. You have a silent workspace, not a silent PC. And that's assuming nothing else in the room makes noise... I hear the furnace kick on, the bathroom fan, my wall clock ticking, etc. So, even in the room without the PC, it's not silent. Silent is in the name of the site, but everything is relative.



I tried that route initially, my monitor ghosted the image terribly running at 1024x768 - this was with a 10' long extension on a $15-20 cable. YMMV with extension cables.

Edward is correct when it comes to image quality degradation. ATI and Nvidia on 19" monitors is a comsumer level product -- I think Edward is looking at a professional level solution. Matrox makes the best displaying cards (that I have seen) and LaCie makes the best displaying monitors (that I have seen). Nobody would purchase these to surf the web or play games.

People that take image quality seriously wouldn't even consider an LCD (well, maybe the Apple Cinema series) due to color fidelity -- LCD's just don't have it yet.

KVM switches are usually used for controlling more than one computer with a single monitor/keyboard/mouse and not for image quality. I usually see them used in server rooms (like the one at our office). I've noticed that they're starting to pop up at Best Buy and Circuit City, but I'm not sure how many consumers really have a need (but I'm sure the market research was done, so I'm probably wrong on that )

All that said, I have used your "move the box" solution for my server -- it's now in the basement where I don't care how loud it is. Has (4) HD's, 5 fans (a bunch of Sunon's ) -- accessed via hard wired giga net.

Finally, FWIW, I don't consider drilling holes in the wall, floor, etc easier or less expensive than building a quiet computer. I can build a quiet computer for just about the same price as a loud one -- the only extra expense would be ditching the retail HSF for a quieter model.

Now, trying to quiet an existing computer is a different story, since you've already spent the $$ once and are now considering replacing parts. But then, I got to use the loud parts to make the server

Dave

As I said, if you cannot see the difference, I cannot help you.

Come on, you must be kidding. My "extremely limited special circumstances"? Like living in a house that has a landing at the top of the stairs? Like living in a house that has more than one room? Like living in a house that has plasterboard walls? Hardly special! My solution would work for most people who own a PC and have their own home, which I think would be quite a few million people...

I'm sorry, I didn't realise that if my PC was further than 1 metre away, my solution didn't qualify for making it silent.

I have to laugh.

I came here and posted on this forum, completely out of the blue, because I'd visited this site before, and thought "Where can I go to share how I succeeded in making my PC completely silent? I know - SilentPCReview." How stupid of me...

FYI, I'm very interested in making PCs as quiet as possible while they're still in the same room as me, just not THAT interested that I'll spend hours tinkering and mucking about with my setup, to try and get rid of something that is much more easily got rid of by moving it.

But I was right before: it's almost like a cult in here - anybody dares to show the 'emperor's clothes' and they all scream "Heretic! Burn him! Burn him!"


So what?

So wouldn't the obvious solution (as suggested, no doubt, on this site!) be to just buy some NEW, quieter ones?
Hardly rocket science.
So obvious, in fact, that I didn't feel it needed saying in my article, plus my article was only about MOVING the PC, since it seems that nobody is actually interested in doing something so simple...

What has this got to do with anything?
Are you suggesting that I was saying that you should keep your drives because moving them to another room will get rid of some of their noise?
Obviously you should buy new drives.


Sorry that you took it all so personally...

Obviously.
And nothing else in my room makes a noise. I have no furnace. The bathroom fan only comes on when I turn it on, which is when I'm in the bathroom (strangely enough), there is no clock. So, even in the room without the PC, it IS silent. How strange that you somehow wanted it to NOT be silent...

No, it's silent in my bedroom.
And it only cost me £40.
Before this it was fairly quiet, but I could always hear my wretched computer.

Well, maybe there was something wrong with your graphics card or monitor.
I use a Radeon 9700 Pro (and have had a Ti4200, Radeon 9600, and GeforceFX5600 also running on this 4.5m of cable) and an Ebuyer no-name 19" monitor, and the picture was ALWAYS perfect. I use my computer for hours and hours at a time, and I'd soon notice any problems.
So you had a problem with your setup that was not my experience. I believe I could easily add another 2-3m at least without any degradation. If I ever come across some cheap cables, I'll put them in the link just to find out.

And? Sorry - what's your point? My monitor's display is perfect. ATI is a consumer level product - so what? Does that mean the display is no good? Not that I've noticed!

And? When did I ever mention LCDs? Talk about strawmen arguments...

Obviously they're not used FOR image quality, they're used for extending the distance between you and your PC.

Whether you consider it to be less expensive or not is irrelevant - it IS less expensive! Does it cost me £300 to drill a hole in the wall? Even if it's 10 inches of brick? No. It costs about £15 for a drill bit. Presuming you don't have one to begin with.
It does NOT cost £300, so how can it NOT be less expensive (by a long way) than building a quiet (I notice you didn't say silent) computer?

I notice you didn't say 'silent'.


No, I'm talking about my NEXT purchase. My NEXT graphics card, hard drive, etc.etc. Every time I have to consider how much noise they make. Or at least, I used to.

You guys really have a problem with this: you're so obsessed with making your PC silent that you can't even see that it's far easier and cheaper to just quieten the PC down as easily as possible (i.e. quiet CPU heatsink, quiet PSU, quiet hard drives) and then MOVE it.

XG2004, thank you for starting this amusing thread! I don't know which is better, your tenacity at defending your viewpoint, or the apparent wounded pride of some who argue with you. Just realize that some people can't move their computer because of their particular environment, and some won't because it's more fun to spend money and/or play with the hardware! By the way, my recollection is that moving the computer itself as a solution has been brought up here before, though maybe not lately, as has using an enclosure.

Hi Tom, I'm all too aware (now) that some people can't actually move their PCs, I didn't think so many would take it so personally, as if it was some sort of order to do so! I enjoy tinkering with my PC, I'm very interested in silencing PCs (I've made many posts on the SOS forum to this effect, including the idea of using the entire case of a PC as a giant heatsink (before Zalman published their ideas on this) and of using a barrel of water sunk in the garden as a heatsink for a watercooling system that would require no fan or radiator (imagine how long it would take to heat up 100 gallons of water stuck in the ground, using a 100 watt power source!).

Can you point me to any of the other posts about moving computers? I'd be very interested to read them.

Clearly, the subjectivity of display image quality has once again cropped up.

It's the same thing as people who feel Bose speakers sound great, versus those who know what really sounds good. If you cannot hear the difference, no one can help you.

It's also the same as people who thought the image quality on the first generation plasma displays were great, versus those who were able to see beyond the thinness of the displays, and see the fact that the image quality on equivalently priced CRT TVs could easily blow those said plasmas clear out of the water. If you cannot see the difference, no one can help you.

If a TV dinner is as gourmet to you as a dinner at a real fine dining establishment, no one can help you.

Once again, if you cannot see the difference, between professional grade display adapters with professional grade displays, versus most-pennies-pinched value market goods, I cannot help you.

Do you drive a Toyota Corolla, sip your rehydrated coffee with instant Coffee Mate in the morning before heading off to whatever it is you do until your fast-food lunch break, then back to the mundane task you repeat over and over for hours on end to make bill pay, before heading home, walking past your noisy computer to the quiet zone, and happily enjoying your silence in peace?

Wait, I don't think so, because you're obviously too busy in here arguing with us over how good it must be, to actually enjoy it, having seen the pace at which you're hawk-eying this thread of yours. Instead of just being at peace about it, convincing yourself that we, like yourself, cannot be helped, and just surrenduring to the fact that you know it all, and we don't, and leaving it at that.

Just as I will, right now; this is most likely the last anyone will read from me in this thread, as the point has been moot from the beginning, and I've wasted enough keyboard tapping on it.

Congratulations, you have pwned this thread. Have a nice day.

-Ed

Why is everyone so determined to feed the troll???

Gooserider

Cat5 is specced up to 1000m runs, so you're just making stuff up.



First off, there are high end CRTs with DVI. Second, you seem to be ignoring http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=-840&langId=-1&partNumber=9503DG5&storeId=1 that. 3840x2400 resolution? And it costs only a fraction the cost of your average CRT monitor.

Xg2004.... You're a troll, plain and simple. Your solution just is not viable for many reasons, not to mention it's not the point of this site. This site is about SILENT PCs, not loud PCs in other places. Hell, I can't hear my friend Tara's Sony desktop right now, does that make it a silent PC candidate? It's loud as fvck if you're on the same story with it. There's probably a bunch of computers with Vantec Tornadoes in them in the UK right now, but I can't hear them. Do Vantec Tornadoes go in silent PCs? Noooo, go elsewhere.[/url]

Yes, that was a classic!

I don't see why the guy didn't just move it to another room... It would have been a lot easier...

http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/skyscraper ... ground.htm

Only because YOU brought it up, because you believe there will be problems if you move your PC.

So don't do it!
It's quite simple.

But you CAN use a KVM extender and no doubt achieve a perfect display at distances of hundreds of feet. It aint' rocket science...

Do you want me to take some photographs of my screen so you can see what it looks like with 5m versus 1m of monitor lead?

More patronising 'golden eyes' bull...

Here we go...
"I'm rich, therefore you're an idiot."

Really? I've been enjoying my absolute and CHEAP complete silence for over four weeks now, and will obviously continue to enjoy it for the rest of my life. Not a bad return for one day's work, huh?


Aah...

There's the real problem. You think that just because somebody suggests something that negates the whole purpose of your existence (and how sad is THAT - to obsess for most of your waking hours about silencing your bloody PC!!) that they are therefore evil.

You're obsessed!

You're starting to sound like ScottDru on the SOS forum...

Look - YOU're the one who had the big problem with 'image quality'. You used it as your 'excuse' (as if you NEEDED one!) to not move your PC to another room. You acted as if I was FORCING you to move your PC, or something.

No doubt you took great offence at my website because I showed how pointless it was to keep trying to silence a PC when it was far easier to move it. Get over it.
Find a new hobby or something.


Congratulations, you're paranoid...

Yes, how very amusing it was too!

Yes, how very true too!

No, I'm not a 'troll'. Just because somebody says something YOU don't like, doesn't mean they're a 'troll'. Still, it's a nice way of proving yourself 'right' by simply calling somebody a name.

Not viable for WHO? Care to name the reasons?
My solution IS viable, because I've just DONE IT, and it only cost me £40. What more do I need to say?

Yes, and you're all having great difficulty achieving SILENCE, aren't you? Whereas my method is EASY and it WORKS, and is very cheap. So basically the site is going to ignore what lots of visitors are looking for - advice on how to achieve SILENCE in their PC workroom. So they'll spend years following your advice and then find out they could have had absolute silence years ago at very little cost. Why do you think it's fair to NOT tell people about this?


Find another thread if this one bothers you so much.

The very nature of some of the replies here proves my point entirely: some of you are so obsessed with your 'mission' that when somebody provides an easy solution (which YOU don't happen to like) you feel your whole purpose in life is being taken away from you...

Loads of people just want silence - by whatever EASY means possible. This site doesn't tell them about moving their PC. I thought it would be difficult, because I'd never seen a site about it. Now I know it's easy, I'm determined to make sure other people know they have ANOTHER option. Why are you so keen to PREVENT them from finding this out?

xg2004: it would have been so much better for you to just say "hey, i moved my pc to another room, it makes my room quieter and i am happy." your determination to add a twist of authority on this basic message serves only to underline the absence of common sense in your being and also your appreciation of other people's goals. thus denouncing you as a troll, if you hadn't realised yet.

your "success" at remedying your failure to actually silence a pc is illustrative of your inability to not only sidestep the problem at hand but also to show a total lack of understanding and respect for others.

silentpcreview thrives on the efforts of individuals to silence their computers and benefits from the sharing of views between mature members. your mindless trolling is in itself an insult to these forums; and that you have the tenacity to tell other users to "find another thread if this one bothers you so much" is despicable and ironic, to say the least.

here's a problem for you: my current pc is so quiet that for months, my monitor (a philips 109p4) has been the loudest component. how do i fix that? do i go stuff it in another room? sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

i think if you pulled your finger(s) out, and read your posts from the beginning of this thread, you'll realise how ridiculous you sound yourself.

would you like a tissue?

chylld > just do it like that, you can even share it with your SO

Hey, come on people, why don't you cool it! This isn't the sort of shit we usually dish out around here.

It's a "he said, she said" thing and obviously no one's going to change their opinion. The original poster has the right to his opinion (even if he is wrong , just kidding ) and everyone else has the right to theirs, and obiously nobody's going to give an inch. Why keep beating a dead horse?

Please clean it up or I'll lock this thread. Have a great weekend!

The likely reason why is obvious.

The other side of his wall could be the outside, or his bedroom, or someone else's bedroom, or the kitchen, or a dining room, or a laundry room, or a bathroom, or a hallway, or...well, it could have been ANY room or location where placing a noisy computer is either impractical or impossible.

That's the basic point--almost any location one desires to place a computer is not suitable for the put-the-computer-in-another-room method. Only under rare circumstances will this method be possible without excessive cable lengths and expense.

This site isn't about silent rooms. We don't talk about ducting our air conditioners or duct taping our cats. We talk about making our PCs quieter. Can't you see that people don't like your solution? It's not for this place. Now leave our Grail Quest alone.

An unsusually heated discussion!
I think moving computers to other rooms should have its place on this site; though there's not much to it - I don't know what could be discussed apart from what cables are best. There should be perhaps not a whole section like there is for watercooling but a stick thread or two. Would MikeC agree?

My PC is much quieter now but I still want to move it from my study into my bedroom as the last step.

xg2004 - A suggestion for your setup; probably irrelevant now. I don't see why you need so much wiring: for audio wouldn't the best solution would be to have an external sound card so you only need a firewire or usb cable to go from your pc to where the sound needs to be? This should maintain sound quality.