Car heatercore question

Wheat · Post by **Wheat** » Thu May 20, 2004 7:45 am

Hello,

I am planning to watercool my computer and are currently doing the reasearch (I join the praise for Chyllds guide), and I have a question:

Why is the heatercore from Toyota Camry so popular for watercooling? Is it beacuse of its size or perhaps something with its internal construction?

(I would like to use a equivalent core form a Volvo as it would be much easier to find here in Sweden, and probably much cheaper.)

/Wheat

afrost · Post by **afrost** » Thu May 20, 2004 11:42 am

i know there are heatercore databases around, check out procooling and overclockers austrailia to see if they have databases. i think a heatercore's popularity is only based on size and how easy it is to find.

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Thu May 20, 2004 7:43 pm

there's no hard and fast rule with regards to selecting a heatercore. the main constraints are size, construction and barb positioning.

size: depends where you want to fit it in

construction: all copper (some are partially/wholly aluminium = not as good)

barb positioning: depends on your situation.

the camry sv21 heatercore is popular because it's a nice size, it's all copper (iirc) and the barbs come out at right angles just like the black ice radiators. the sv21 actually has holes in the sides and is pretty much the same width as a cdrom drive so what you can do is screw your drive sleds onto the radiator and just slide it into a 5 1/4" drive bay, perfect fit. (i'll try to find a pic)

edit: found pics:

the holes in the side of the radiator you see in the last pic actually match up perfectly with the regular 5 1/4" drive mounting holes.

afrost · Post by **afrost** » Thu May 20, 2004 8:47 pm

that is cool, the person that stumled onto that perfect fit must have been stoked!

Wheat · Post by **Wheat** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:49 am

Thank you for the replys!

I am planning to have the radiator otuside of my computer case, so size is not so important.
But I will try to find out if the Volvo radiators are made out of Cu or Al.

sbabb · Post by **sbabb** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:16 am

Cool photos, chylld. I've never seen that done before.

From a science/mechanical point of view, that's not a good place and orientation for the radiator, though.

If you put the radiator at the top of your cooling loop, especially with the barbs facing downward, then the radiator becomes a trap for all air bubbles in your system. The rad is probably the worst place to have air bubbles. Ideally there would be a reservoir or some other device designed to trap air at the top of the cooling loop.

Even though there's an empty bay below the rad, airflow is still restricted because of the CD/DVD drive below. And the air that's getting to the rad is pre-heated by the components in the case and the CD/DVD drives. You might be able to improve the situation a little by removing the front 5.25" bay cover and replacing it with some kind of grille to let cool air in for the rad.

Since the rad is up against the top of the case, the rad fan(s) will need to be mounted on top of the case. This means that you'll either have to live with exposed fans or box them like the Koolance case does. Either way, it's probably going to be loud. The fans will be fighting with the PSU to pull air out of the case, too, so you'll need a lot of free-flowing intake area at the bottom of the case to let enough air in.

From a physics point of view it would appear that having the rad at the bottom front of the case (with the barbs at the top so air can escape easier) and pulling fresh air into the case through the rad will give the best cooling. But since Wheat is mounting his rad outside his case, the best location is probably submerged in that cold mountain stream running through the back yard

Scott

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Sun May 23, 2004 3:02 pm

yeh i agree, it is probably the worst place to put the rad, but there are only so many places inside a case where you can fit a BA

moparchris · Post by **moparchris** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:14 am

afrost wrote:i know there are heatercore databases around, check out procooling and overclockers austrailia to see if they have databases. i think a heatercore's popularity is only based on size and how easy it is to find.

theres one here.. http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/s ... hp?t=71321 - thats a good WC guide, the link to the database is on there but you can just go get it here http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/a ... ntid=34565 you probly need to be registered to get it though..

bobkoure · Post by **bobkoure** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:40 am

afrost wrote: i think a heatercore's popularity is only based on size and how easy it is to find.

And on water-contact material (copper or brass much better as waterblocks tend to be made of copper and, if you can avoid it, it's better to not "mix" copper and aluminum in a system - yes there are anti corrosion agents, but it's better to need as little anti-corrosion help as possible.) Look for a heater core for a car that had an iron block - core's more likely to be copper/brass.
And on water flow resistance.
And on inlet/outlet tube size and placement. Some of 'em you can just use - some need cutting, gets more complicated from there.
Availability of pre-made shroud. Some folks like to buy rather than build. Coolingworks shrouds for 6x6 cores are very good.
Finally - cost. Prices range from US$20 to well over US$100. The $20 ones do a fine job shedding heat - particularly for what we're doing (low noise).
If you're putting the core in the lower front of your case, have a look at the heater core for the '71 Mercury Monarch. It might not even be that expensive in Sweden (maybe so, though - had a friend move his automatic door factory from Sweden to the US because his personal income taxes had gone over 100%. This was late '70s, so maybe the taxation situation has improved...)

Blackeagle · Post by **Blackeagle** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:29 pm

One thing I'd like to add. If you can, find a single pass heater core as they are much lower resistence to flow than a dual pass type. The core from a Chevy 69-72 pick-up With A/C is one such that is populer with many here in the US.

bobkoure · Post by **bobkoure** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:02 pm

Blackeagle wrote:...a single pass heater core ...much lower resistance to flow

For the uninitiated, he's talking about heater cores that have an inlet on the tank on one end and an outlet on the tank on the other end.
The flow resistance that's "much lower" is water flow not air flow.
With all that said, given that this is a silence forum (so quiet pumps) and given that resistance is proportional to the square of the velocity, I'm not sure it's worth bothering with a single pass - just not much benefit for the flow from a 1046 or 1048 sized pump. It won't hurt, of course - except to limit the selection in cores. IMHO you'd be better off finding a core that fits somewhere in your case so you can pull outside air through it. There is one single pass HC (ford?) that's on a 6x7 finned section (so overall is around 6x8). That'd just fit across the lower front of a FS020 (case that's around 9" wide). I have a FS020 but haven't bothered because I'm not convinced that it'd make a difference at the low-ish flows I'm using.
Bob

Becks · Post by **Becks** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:07 pm

"If you put the radiator at the top of your cooling loop, especially with the barbs facing downward, then the radiator becomes a trap for all air bubbles in your system. "

I have 2 170x170mm rads on the top of my case facing downwards and I think its the best spot for a radiator, a little more work but for cooling I think its the best.

I have another computer too with a normal 2-120mm-fan-sized radiator.

Air getting trapped in the rad... turn the computer upside down when you fill it.... really once its down to a few airbubbles, little enough for the pump to keep a flow going, the water actually starts pushing them around in the loop.. eventualy a little settles at the top but if u hit the radiator o the side normaly they'll get sucked though the loop... in my loop the fill is at the bottom.....

and really the air only gets caught at the 2 ends of the rad, the small/thin paths though the rad can't get airbubbles, the water would push them. They always get caught next to the barbs in that little take that hangs off the ends.

ANyways to be real safe you can just turn the computer upside down and shake it a bit to get any air out.

About cooling, heat rises. Air in the rad gets a little warm and rises, the air right below all nice and cool is pulled in... its not much but, there is a huge surface area, and any movement of air does something, according to me. One day I'll try horizontal at the top of the case vs virtical in the front with no fans and see which takes longer to reach 50C from idle... well maybe 40C (my current computer takes 40min to go up 2-3C w/nofans) And I'll either prove its best palce for the rad or I'll prove to myself its not, either way I'll be happy knowning.

jinu117 · Post by **jinu117** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:01 pm

sbabb wrote:Cool photos, chylld. I've never seen that done before.

From a science/mechanical point of view, that's not a good place and orientation for the radiator, though.

If you put the radiator at the top of your cooling loop, especially with the barbs facing downward, then the radiator becomes a trap for all air bubbles in your system. The rad is probably the worst place to have air bubbles. Ideally there would be a reservoir or some other device designed to trap air at the top of the cooling loop.

Even though there's an empty bay below the rad, airflow is still restricted because of the CD/DVD drive below. And the air that's getting to the rad is pre-heated by the components in the case and the CD/DVD drives. You might be able to improve the situation a little by removing the front 5.25" bay cover and replacing it with some kind of grille to let cool air in for the rad.

Since the rad is up against the top of the case, the rad fan(s) will need to be mounted on top of the case. This means that you'll either have to live with exposed fans or box them like the Koolance case does. Either way, it's probably going to be loud. The fans will be fighting with the PSU to pull air out of the case, too, so you'll need a lot of free-flowing intake area at the bottom of the case to let enough air in.

From a physics point of view it would appear that having the rad at the bottom front of the case (with the barbs at the top so air can escape easier) and pulling fresh air into the case through the rad will give the best cooling. But since Wheat is mounting his rad outside his case, the best location is probably submerged in that cold mountain stream running through the back yard

Scott

Eheheh... this case will be perfect work out tool. Bleeding comes with strong muscles flexing the case this way and that... Takes only about 1-2 hours of lifting on t-line. (I've done similar thing on my previous rig... )

zoob · Post by **zoob** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:16 am

chylld wrote:the camry sv21 heatercore is popular because it's a nice size, it's all copper (iirc) and the barbs come out at right angles just like the black ice radiators. the sv21 actually has holes in the sides and is pretty much the same width as a cdrom drive so what you can do is screw your drive sleds onto the radiator and just slide it into a 5 1/4" drive bay, perfect fit. (i'll try to find a pic)

Hey, where did you find these pics? I Googled for it but found nothing.. if you could link me to a thread or something of this guy's journey, I'd love to read about it.

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:19 pm

it was from the overclockers.com.au forums. i can't remember which thread it came from though.

essentially it was just a quick 5-second experiment that turned out well, not much of a journey really. people had been placing this radiator in the top fronts of their cases for a while, it was only a matter of time until someone mistook it for a cdrom drive