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 Post subject: MikeC and al bundy were right!--Updated: Pictures!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:28 pm 
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Anyone have any experience with the Travelstar 5K80? I'm looking at the 40GB model; it's rated for typical idle and load of 2.1/2.6 bels and maximum idle and load of 2.4/2.8 bels, according to this.

That's means it never even hits 30 decibels!

-Ed

EDIT: After reading about the place, I noticed that al bundy has a ton of experience with laptop drives, and particularly this one (hallelujiah!). If you happen to read this, al, please let me know what you think about this drive compared to the 7K60.

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Last edited by Edward Ng on Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:40 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:28 am 
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MikeC recently posted about his experiences with quiet notebook drives. I think he liked the Fujitsu. Search for his post.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:28 am 
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Yeah, I read that post but am still awaiting his review of this as yet unknown miniITX machine.

-Ed

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 Post subject: Re: Hitachi 5K80?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:45 pm 
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edwardng wrote:
Anyone have any experience with the Travelstar 5K80? I'm looking at the 40GB model; it's rated for typical idle and load of 2.1/2.6 bels and maximum idle and load of 2.4/2.8 bels, according to this.

That's means it never even hits 30 decibels!

-Ed

EDIT: After reading about the place, I noticed that al bundy has a ton of experience with laptop drives, and particularly this one (hallelujiah!). If you happen to read this, al, please let me know what you think about this drive compared to the 7K60.


Hi edwardng,

I can't give you direct comparison feedback between the 5k80 and 7k60 right now, sorry! I have compared the 5k80 to several other laptop drives though, including several current Fujitsu drives. I definitely prefer the 5k80 over all others so far. Very speedy (8MB cache) and quiet, and so far, extremely reliable.

In my quietest systems I can easily hear the sound of any harddrive - even a laptop drive. However I have found that putting a laptop drive in a SilentDrive enclosure, and then mounting the enclosure on foam, cuts out the hard drive noise completely. Highly recommended.

I hope others around here will eventually try this out also, and post their experiences. I feel like I'm the only one!

Good luck.

8)


Edit: [n/m comment made below]

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Last edited by al bundy on Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:17 pm 
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Thanks for the heads up! I'm starting my temporary new job tomorrow so I'll have some money in hand coming in for the next three weeks; that'll give me the funding necessary to experiment with one of these babies.

Even though I owned (and mourned the loss of) a pair of 75GXPs in the past, I'm going to be fair and give Big Blue's brainchild a second chance.

-Ed

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:50 pm 
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You know what? Come to think of it, I'm afraid that 40GB is probably not enough space for me (FLAC files get pretty large)...

Does anyone know how the 80GB (dual platter) 5K80 sounds, in comparison to the 40GB (single platter) model? al, do you know?

-Ed

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:43 pm 
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edwardng wrote:
... al, do you know?

-Ed


No, sorry! Are you going to enclose the drive? If so, the difference likely won't matter anyway, thankfully.

8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:58 pm 
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That's just it though lol...

The dual platter is 3db louder, which, by some people's measures, is literally twice as loud, and maybe even in the realm of the Samsung I am running. Is the SilentDrive really that good?!?

-Ed

BTW al, thanks for your help so far!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:32 am 
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edwardng wrote:
That's just it though lol...

The dual platter is 3db louder, which, by some people's measures, is literally twice as loud, and maybe even in the realm of the Samsung I am running. Is the SilentDrive really that good?!?

-Ed

BTW al, thanks for your help so far!


I think so, as long as the drive runs cool.

Also, if there is room in your case, you could enclose two 40GB laptop drives and build a RAID-0 array with them...

8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:03 am 
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While I do have a spare RAID card laying around (I've got a spare HighPoint RocketRAID 1540 laying around I replaced a while back with a Promise FastTrak S150 TX4), I'm thinking...

Wouldn't a single 7K60 be quieter and quicker (access times) than dual 5K80s?

-Ed

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:03 pm 
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Quicker access time, very likely yes; higher throughput, very likely no. :)

I hope you will post the results of whatever you end up trying!

8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:35 pm 
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Oh, you can bet the family farm I'll post up results! My problem is deciding exactly which way to go, because of noise potential and wallet crushage...

One 7K60 is only 60 GB, and costs over $200, plus is louder than one 5K80.

Two 5K80s of 40GB each will cost almost as much as a single 60GB 7L60, but might make more noise, and won't be as quick, plus I'd have to use my RAID, which involves SATA converters.

A single 5K80 of 80GB would be quieter than either of the above situations, but costs just as much as a 60GB 7K60 and more than a pair of 40GB 5K80s.

A single 5K80 of 40GB would be quietest and cheapest, but it'd make me really tight on space.

Keep in mind I didn't even factor in the cost of TWO Silent Drives over just one for the RAID setup (which makes it effectively as expensive as the 7K60 scenario) and I probably can't fit a full pair of SilentDrives.

I'm thinking either single 7K60 or single 80GB 5K80; dual 40GB 5K80s is a headache, and a single 40GB 5K80 is probably too small.

Any suggestions?

-Ed

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:27 pm 
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In your position I suppose I would use the (expensive) single enclosed 7k60... but that's just me. :)

Looking forward to hearing about how it works out!

8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:22 pm 
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Well it looks like my pal al is the only person who's really going to be any serious help...

I'll keep that in mind; I suppose I'm just going to have to be the guinea pig for dual platter 5K80 and SilentDrive.

Time to make my orders.

-Ed

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:28 pm 
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Okay, sorry to do this, but I'm now also considering the 4200rpm drives. here're numbers to stare at:

Travelstar 80GN (4200rpm, 80GB model)
Idle (typical): 2.3 Bels
Op (typical): 2.7 Bels
Idle (maximum): 2.6 Bels
Op (maximum): 2.9 Bels

Travelstar 4K80 (4200rpm, only specifications provided--all capacities/conditions?)
Idle (typical): 2.4 Bels
Op (typical): 3.0 Bels

Travelstar 5K80 (5400rpm, 80GB model)
Idle (typical): 2.5 Bels
Op (typical): 2.9 Bels
Idle (maximum): 2.7 Bels
Op (maximum): 3.1 Bels

The 5K80's performance is tempting, but it is pretty expensive, costing around $280, and that's before counting the cost of the adapter and the SilentDrive enclosure. :(

The acoustics specification on the 4K80 are pretty suspect (see here), so I'm not sure exactly what to make of it, but it appears like it it may be quieter than the 5K80 (assuming the stated levels are for the 80GB model). It's also much cheaper at only $204 shipped from ZipZoomFly.

The 80GN looks to be most quiet of all, but it's a little harder to find (at reputable e-tailers I know and trust). The price is pretty much equivalent to 4K80.

I'm pretty much settled on the 80GN (if I can find it some place I like, darn it!); however, please feel free to chime in on the new choices I'm considering.

-Ed

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:58 pm 
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Ralf Hutter wrote:
MikeC recently posted about his experiences with quiet notebook drives. I think he liked the Fujitsu. Search for his post.

edwardng wrote:
Yeah, I read that post but am still awaiting his review of this as yet unknown miniITX machine.

You must know by now -- the review of the Mappit A4Fis up. I don't know about the Travelstars, but I would definitely try a Fujitsu. The 4200rpm drive in this thing is unbelievably quiet. I also have a 40G 5400rpm 8mb cache Seagate Momentus I've been trying out -- no contest for noise. You can hear the Momentus whining a bit, whirring, maybe even periodic head resetting like the Hitachi/IBMs -- all from 4-5 feet away. From that distance, there's nothing whatsoever from the Fujitsu. And it has no whine at all. It barely whirs.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:21 am 
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MikeC, you are the man. I totally had not realized the Fujitsu drives had such low noise ratings. I've just finished putting my order in for a Fujitsu MHT2080AT over at ZipZoomFly; only $192 shipped 2-day for free!

Can't wait for it to arrive!

I also ordered a SilentDrive enclosure and the laptop hard drive adapter from Directron.

-Ed

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 6:43 pm 
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Sounds exciting edwardng! We'll be waiting for your next posts. :)

MikeC, that's disappointing info about the noisy Momentus drive. I had really high expectations about its acoustic characteristics.

How well does the Momentus drive perform speedwise? I was building with those 4200rpm Fujitsu laptop drives for a little while, but then I found the recent 5400rpm 8MB-cache TravelStar drives to be very noticeably faster than the Fujitsus in performance, and comparably quiet...

Could you please provide any speed comparison data you found between the Momentus and Fujitsus?

8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 6:58 pm 
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al bundy --

I haven't had time to any of that yet, but I will soon. I have another M10000 based system with the Momentus in a Scythe fanless heatpipe cooled case right now -- yeah it's been weeks of nothing but little systems! I'm making sure it is perfectly well set up and stable and then do some HDD benchmarks and compare against the Fujutsu in the Mappit.

This will turn into a little intro review about using notebook drives in desktop systems -- and a Scythe case review, of course. Time & energy willing.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:26 pm 
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Shweet, Mike; I definitely look forward to it!

Say, did you see my question about changing my handle over in the OT/Not Silent section?

-Ed

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:37 pm 
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It worked! The Fujitsu MHT2080AT mounted inside a SilentDrive and placed on double-layers of foam at the floor of my case with foam lined front and side case panels results in:

Absolutely
Zero
Hard Drive
Noise.

I hear no motor whine. I hear no wind noise. I hear no seek sounds.

It's some sort of ridiculous miracle.

The SMART sensor reports a 100% solid average temp. of 26C, idle as low as 24C and load peaking at 32C. Not hot by my measures, particularly for a laptop drive, which is designed, by principle, to withstand tight spaces and low circulation. Please keep in mind those figures were overnights for a room that was rather cold in the morning.

I have MikeC and al bundy to credit for this one (and whoever inspired al, too). The only sound now, and I have to press my ears against my case panels to hear it, is the minute noise from air flowing in the side duct and out the back.

Mike, al, let us pioneer the new silent computing phenomenon: laptop drives in desktop rigs.

-Ed

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Last edited by Edward Ng on Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:21 am 
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Edward Ng wrote:
It worked! The Fujitsu MHT2080AT mounted inside a SilentDrive and placed on double-layers of foam at the floor of my case with foam lined front and side case panels results in:

Absolutely
Zero
Hard Drive
Noise.

I hear no motor whine. I hear no wind noise. I hear no seek sounds.

It's some sort of ridiculous miracle...


Great news Edward Ng! I think that one needs to experience this particular (and unusual) configuration in order to fully appreciate it. :)

The forum member here who originally inspired me to try laptopdrive+SilentDrive combos was "aderyn" (who stopped posting here a while ago). After experimenting with it for a little while, I found that adding the additional foam mounting is really essential to fully dampening-out that last remaining bit of vibration.

The end result is a silencing masterpiece, in my opinion. If more members also try this out, I think they will become believers too! :D


8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:49 am 
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Okay, I wanted to post here the Motherboard Monitor logs for my overnight so far:
Image
Please keep in mind, I will be honest here and tell you, that when I woke up this morning I had to close my window; it had become #$%*&& cold in here! :shock:

I will post pictures eventually, once I take the time to shoot them.

-Ed

EDIT: Here's the same log after 17 hours of running:
Image
Not bad, huh? Remember I closed my window in the morning, so these temperatures more accurately reflect how the machine will tend to fare in normal conditions.

EDIT 2: Okay, here's the log after 25 hours, including some seriously heavy use:
Image
Massively loaded for a long duration (I loaded the drive down hard for over an hour straight), it peaked at 38C. I'm definitely happy with these results!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:23 pm 
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My last update for temps:

Image
This is after 70 hours.

-Ed

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:32 pm 
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Good job, Edward. I'm also interesting in getting myself a 2.5" HDD, and deciding between the Fujitsu, Hitachi and IBM Travelstar. So far, this site tends to favour Fujitsu. Does anyone use the other HDDs here?

Edward, how much does the enclosure help in reducing the HD noise and heat?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:01 pm 
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I seriously doubt any effectiveness at reducing heat; if anything, it is trapping heat in, and thus actually detrimental to temperatures.

That makes the low temps I see all the more remarkable.

When I was doing the Norton Ghost drive clone operation, I had both drives out in the open, and here's what I can say about the Fujitsu in wide open air:

1) During start-up, you can hear a faint click-whiiiiir sound
2) The motor makes an extremely faint mid-high frequency sound, that I could not detect from more than 2 feet away (again, this is in wide open air)
3) Seeks came across as mid frequency clicks, audible perhaps from up to about 3 feet away.

Keep in mind the drive was sitting right on a wooden floor with only an antistatic bag under it.

Once enclosed in the SilentDrive and the whole assembly placed on thin foam, then the case closed (with dampening material on the case panel), there's no sound from the drive audible at all, from any distance.

Because the temperatures are so low even in the SilentDrive, I see no reason not to use this setup. Perhaps there would be more innovative or secure methods for mounting the entire assembly (I haven't tried hardmounting the SilentDrive inside a half-height bay yet), like maybe on top of sorbothane.

-Ed

PS I am going away to Orlando, FL for a few days tomorrow morning, so I may not be able to reply until around Monday night.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:51 am 
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engseng wrote:
...I'm also interesting in getting myself a 2.5" HDD, and deciding between the Fujitsu, Hitachi and IBM Travelstar. So far, this site tends to favour Fujitsu. Does anyone use the other HDDs here?...


I was recently using those nice MHT laptop Fujitsus (4200rpm), but lately prefer the 5400+rpm Travelstars since they perform at least as quiet, but faster. I sold an earlier 7k60 drive that I had in-shop, so unfortunately I can't any longer perform a direct (i.e. simultaneous, side-by-side) comparison with the 5k80 - but going with my impression of the earlier 7k60, I'd have to say they seemed quite similar noise-wise. Both are silent when SilentDrive enclosed and then mounted on foam. [BTW the 5k80 drives I've used are all 40GB versions.]

I would like to hear feedback from anybody who tries out the Toshiba 7200rpm laptop drives (with 16MB cache :) )...

8)

Edit: Here's the link!

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Last edited by al bundy on Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:06 am 
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I have this hard disk in my laptop and it's very quiet. There is NO whine and some very soft seeks (only when you are pressing your ear against it ;)). It's slow although you could put two in a RAID-0 with SATA adapters to make up for it.

-Por

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:27 pm 
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PorBleemo wrote:
I have this hard disk in my laptop and it's very quiet. There is NO whine and some very soft seeks (only when you are pressing your ear against it ;)). It's slow although you could put two in a RAID-0 with SATA adapters to make up for it.

-Por


Hi PorBleemo,

Which specific laptop drive are you referring to? Is it the Toshiba just recently mentioned above, or else... ?

8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:00 pm 
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I'm looking forward to Por's response but wanted to ask:

Why go with these slower, smaller laptop drives?

Are there no 5400RPM desktop drives that can compare?

An enclosed Spinpoint (the newer quiet ones) on foam is still audible?


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