It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:37 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: My Review: Nexus 4090 16dB 400W PSU
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:17 am
Posts: 50
My old PSU was driving me crazy so I just couldn't wait to get a new one. I saw that EndPCNoise.com was advertising the new Nexus 4090 PSU's as in stock (and they are just across the bridge in Vancouver) so I decided to take the plunge.

First impressions:
Cool Box, nice carrying handle.

The box contents were very sparse, just the PSU and nothing else. No manual, power cord, nada. The lack of 'stuff' in the box made me wonder if this was a USA unit or European as I have read that many PSU's sold outside the USA don't include the power cord. I turned the PSU over and sure enough it was set to 220 instead of 115. No real problems there, just glad I caught it.

The PSU is small for it's power rating, but solidly built. It weighs like 5 pounds. The fit and finish is excellent. The fan is HUGE!! it takes up the entire bottom of the PSU.

If you need more than 4 Molex plugs you will have to get splitters as this PSU only comes with 4 4-pin, 1 Floppy type and 2 SATA connectors. None of the wires are sleeved which I suppose is a personal preference. I would like to have at least had the main power connection to the motherboard sleeved. The length of the cables seems to be just right for mid tower cases. Full towers might be a bit short if you have to 'route' the wires behind or around many obstacles.

All connected, double checked and ready to turn on.

Is it running? This PSU is really quiet. I haven't disconnected the 2 case fans to see just how quiet, but I really can't hear it from 1 meter away. The loudest thing in the system now is the hard drive which makes seek noises akin to a matchbox of ball bearings.

The room where the computer is is by no means silent. The ambient noises are a bit loud. So I will have to wait till the wee hours to really tell how quiet the PSU is.

I ran Prime95, Intel system burn-in test suite, and just about everything else I could find to stress the system.
During the tests, using the Intel Monitor, all of the voltages were right on, not once dipping below their designated values.

The case temp got up to 40c, the CPU 50c during the testing (I had all fans set to go as slow as possible, including CPU fan to force the heat to the PSU) and Not once did I hear an increase in PSU fan noise. You can definitely feel the warm air being pumped out the back of the unit so I know it's helping with the case temp.

All in all I am really impressed with this new PSU.

The only down side is now the PC is so quiet that I can hear the monitor flyback whine... time to go LCD!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:14 am
Posts: 555
Location: London, UK
I've just ordered one as well. Hopefully it will arrive by Saturday.

I'll add my comments over the weekend once I get it up and running.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:40 pm
Posts: 424
Location: EU
Can we see a review for this PSU? Mike? :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:40 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11831
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
When I get one.

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:53 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:51 am
Posts: 1464
Location: Elk Grove, CA
As great as all this sounds, I hate to burst the bubble. I recently purchased a NX4090 from www.endpcnoise.com (which is DOWN, for some reason), and after connecting everything, it wont work! More specifically, I can't seem to get the HDDs to power up. The RAM also doesn't get any power, even though the DRAM LED POWER LED is lit. (I have the Corsair XMS XL Pro PC3200 512 MB x 2 DDR).

I honestly don't know what's wrong, and because EndPCNoise's site seems to be down for some mysterious reason, I can't find their RMA email address.

One thing I DID notice, though, was that the 20 (or is it 24? i forget) pin ATX power connector does not have dual wires inserted into 2 of the 20(or 24) pin holes. On my Seasonic A3 460W, dual wires are inserted into 2 of the 20(again, or 24, i forget) locations. Maybe that's why.

I HIGHLY doubt that it is because it cannot power my system. a 60W difference is not that much, and the 400W power is quite a lot, mind you.

Oh well. If any of you have the email address for EndPCNoise's RMA department, i'd gladly appreciate it. I'd like to get an exchange, and, if the 2nd one fails on me, I'm just going to return that one and stick with my A3.

_________________
My Pretty Black P180 Rig .:drool:.
"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of mad silence." -acaurora


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:17 am
Posts: 50
Acuaurora,
I was just at the http://www.endpcnoise.com site and they are up and running. It's 12:30pm here in Oregon.

What are your system specs? Are you running a P4 system? Did you remember to connect the extra 12v connector?

Just an idea.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:14 pm 
Offline
SPCR Reviewer

Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:33 am
Posts: 8636
Location: Sunny SoCal
Endpcnoise.com
10411 NE 4th Plain, Suite 107
Vancouver, WA 98662
Phone: (360) 882-1883


Link to EndPCNoise RMA page

_________________
Main Box: Intel i3-3225, Intel DH77EB, 16GB Corsair RAM, 256GB Samsung 830, SS360GP PSU, CM PS07 case.
Music Server: Intel DH77EB + i3-3220, 2xSamsung 2TB F4, Pico PSU, Fractal Define Mini, 2xScythe Fans @250 rpm.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:44 pm 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:51 am
Posts: 1464
Location: Elk Grove, CA
yes, i remembered the 12V connector. My specs are in my sig... -_-;;

_________________
My Pretty Black P180 Rig .:drool:.
"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of mad silence." -acaurora


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2003 8:55 am
Posts: 66
Location: UK
Interesting...I was looking at the Nexus 3500 for my next PSU upgrade but a number of people here have mentioned that the 4090 is even quieter. KustomPCs in the UK sell both PSUs (only £8 difference between the two) so I may opt for the 4090 instead.

Davidstone28 let us know your opinions also, once you install it :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:40 pm
Posts: 424
Location: EU
Anyone can tell me how many amps does it have on the 12v line?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:14 am
Posts: 555
Location: London, UK
DG wrote:
Anyone can tell me how many amps does it have on the 12v line?


The official blurb is here


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:40 pm
Posts: 424
Location: EU
Yes, i know, but i don't see there what i'm looking for....I must be blind or something... :oops:


Last edited by DG on Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: My comments on the 4090
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:14 am
Posts: 555
Location: London, UK
[Comments temporarily removed for revision]


Last edited by davidstone28 on Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:23 pm, edited 7 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:40 pm
Posts: 424
Location: EU
What are the specs of your sistem? What video card (and cooling for it) and CPU?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:14 am
Posts: 555
Location: London, UK
Not sure about the amps on the 12v rail. Do you need a multimeter or something to read them or are they printed on the side of the PSU?

My system specs for the tests above were as follows:-

Barton 2500+ (@ 3200+, 200mhz x11, 1.75v)
Gigabyte 7N400Pro2 (Nforce2 Ultra 400)
512 Crucial DDR @ stock voltages
Thermaltake SilentBoost HSF @ 7v
Northbridge fan removed (replaced with passive Zalman HS)
1 x Nexus 120mm case fans @ 12v
2 x HDDs (Spinpoint 160gb, Maxtor DM9 80gb)
2 x optical drives (Pioneer DVD-ROM, Lite-On CD-RW)
Geforce Ti4200 128mb
Zalman ZM-80C-HP Video Card HSink with Zalman ZM-OP1 Fan

The following were in the system but not plugged in:-

WD Caviar 80gb
1 x Nexus 120mm case fan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:40 pm
Posts: 424
Location: EU
I guess they should be printed on the side of the PSU...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:17 am
Posts: 50
The amperage listings for the PSU are odd:

+12V1 Minimum Load=1.0A Normal Load=7.0A Max=4.5/15A
+12V2 Miniumm Load=1.0A Normal Load=8.5A Max=15/5.55A

What ever it means, I have had no problems running my system even under stress. I can run Prime95, Burn CDs, run graphics intensive games, all with no problems. I have monitored the voltage readings for all the rails and they never dip below rated specs.

My System Information
CPU: Intel P4 3.4C GHz 800 FSB (OC'd to 3.55 GHz)
CPU Cooling: ZALMAN CNPS7000A-CU
Mainboard: Intel 875P D875PBZLK FMB1.5
Mem: 1GB (2x512) Crucial PC3200 DDR
HDD: 80G MAXTOR 6Y080M0 SATA
Video: HIS ATI 9800PRO w/Arctic Cooler
Sound: Soundblaster LIVE! 5.1
Misc: Nexus 4090 SE 400W PSU
Case Fans: 2 120mm SilenX 14dB
Optical Drives: - Pioneer DVD & Plextor Premium 52x CDRW
Teac Floppy


Last edited by Deheinx on Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:42 pm
Posts: 90
Deheinx wrote:
My System Information
CPU: Intel P4 3.4C GHz 800 FSB (OC'd to 3.55 GHz)
CPU Cooling: ZALMAN CNPS7000A-CU
Mainboard: Intel 875P D875PBZLK FMB1.5
Mem: 1GB (2x512) Crucial PC3200 DDR
HDD: 80G MAXTOR 6Y080M0 SATA
Video: HIS ATI 9800PRO w/Arctic Cooler
Sound: Soundblaster LIVE! 5.1
Misc: Nexus 4090 SE 400W PSU
Case Fans: 2 120mm SilenX 14dB
Optical Drives: - Pioneer DVD & Plextor Premium 52x CDRW
Teac Floppy


You can OC on Intel boards now? Is that with the program that lets you do it in windows?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:17 am
Posts: 50
Nebor,
The Intel 875 BIOS allows you to OC the board up to 4% over the CPU speed. They call it 'Burn In Mode'. You can set it permanently in the BIOS or, if you run the Intel Control Center, temporarily while in Windows.

If you look at this pic, you will see that the ICC shows the OC state.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:42 pm
Posts: 90
Er.... No PCI\AGP bus lock?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:17 am
Posts: 50
Nope. I suppose since they only allow you a max 4% OC they feel the slight OC on the AGP/PCI bus isn't a problem. I have had no problems at all running the system in this mode.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:32 am 
Offline
SPCR Reviewer

Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:33 am
Posts: 8636
Location: Sunny SoCal
Nebor wrote:
Er.... No PCI\AGP bus lock?


Nope. A 4% OC won't bother either the AGP or PCI bus.

Of course the "real" OCing boards generally have locked PCI/AGP busses these days. But you'd have to, seeing that you can OC the FSB to around +33-50% on a lot of the decent Intel boards these days.

_________________
Main Box: Intel i3-3225, Intel DH77EB, 16GB Corsair RAM, 256GB Samsung 830, SS360GP PSU, CM PS07 case.
Music Server: Intel DH77EB + i3-3220, 2xSamsung 2TB F4, Pico PSU, Fractal Define Mini, 2xScythe Fans @250 rpm.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:14 am
Posts: 555
Location: London, UK
Okay, my Nexus 4090 has arrived and here are my inital views:-

Antec Truepower 380s (Sonata) - R.I.P.

The aim was to replace the Antec Truepower 380s PSU inside my Antec Sonata. That PSU isn’t particularly quiet and certainly nowhere near silent. Although it isn’t an annoying sound, there is a lot of whoosing noise which is noticeable if the case is next to you. The sound tends to reflect off the back wall as the fan is at the back of the PSU and blows outwards. The sound is much less noticeable if the case is under a wooden desk – the wood seems to act as a barrier to the sound. Anyway, I moved house recently and my PC has ended up in my bedroom (with no wooden desk). I sleep about 3 metres from the PC and although the sound doesn’t stop me from sleeping (in fact, its background hum / low pitched whoosing sound is vaguely soothing), it is definitely noticeable at night, even from 3 metres away. I live in a very quiet area, so perhaps it’s more noticeable to me now. But anyway, I decided I had to replace the Antec PSU.

At the same time, I decided to replace the stock 120mm Antec case fan that comes with the Sonata because I knew I wouldn’t be able to use any ‘fan only’ PSU connectors. Running the 120mm Antec case fan at 12v isn’t an option – at that voltage they are really noisy – anyone who has tried plugging them into a normal molex connector will know what I mean. At 12v it pushes a lot of air, but sounds like a vacuum cleaner.

Nexus 4090 400W

I ordered from www.kustompcs.co.uk and the PSU arrived the next working day, well packaged as usual (although they no longer charge the £2.50 flat rate postage – it’s all charged by weight now.)

The PSU comes in a cardboard box with carrying handle. Useful, because I can stash my old Antec PSU in it. I agree with the comments that Deheinx has made above - in the box is just the PSU and nothing else. No manual, or power cords. The PSU has a 220v / 115v switch at the back. Black colour scheme with orange fan. Seems well built and is heavy – about the same weight as the Antec. On the side of the PSU is a ‘specs’ sticker with the additional words, “W/NOISE KILLER” and “W/PFC”. Not sure what specific noise killer functions it’s referring to or whether it's PFC is active or active. I guess its probably passive PFC.

None of the cables are sleeved and like Deheinx, I prefer this, as I can route the wires around the case more easily. My old Antec 380S came with 7 molex and 2 ‘fan only’ molexes, The Nexus has fewer – 4 molexes and 2 SATA power connectors. Although it would nicer to have a couple more – I can’t say that I found this to be a problem because although I have 7 potential molex devices (2 optical drives, 1 x IDE HDD, Antec blue case light plug, Zalman graphics card fan with 5v/12v molex > 2 pin splitters, and 2 x 120mm Nexus case fans), I don’t use the Antec blue light (too bright) which in any case has a pass through plug, as do the two Nexus 120mm fans. However, some people will require molex splitters if they have a lot of molex requiring devices. The 2 x SATA power plugs go straight into my two SATA drives.

All the cables are slightly shorter in length than those found in the Antec. I prefer slightly shorter cables because it makes for less case clutter (wrapping the old Antec PSU case cables into figures of eight takes up so much space).

Noise levels.

It’s quiet. In fact, it’s quiet to very quiet - definitely quieter that the Antec Truepower 380S although I wouldn’t say that the Nexus silent. I did several listening 'tests' during different times of day over the last couple days to try and form an accurate opinion. During that time, my opinion has changed from thinking that the Nexus was brilliant (noiseless), to good / very good (I can hear the PSU). I’m not entirely whether it’s the initial euphoria of installing a new component giving way to a more objective view or whether the PSU has simply become louder during this ‘burn in’ period.

I sit about 0.5 metres from the case and during daytime normal use I don’t really notice the PSU. During quiet periods, I do notice the PSU. The sound is faint hum with just a slight buzziness. The noise signature of the PSU is particularly noticeable during the dead of night (say about 2am) My PC is located in my bedroom, so perhaps I notice these sounds more but during the dead of night, when things are really quiet, there’s definitely a faint humming, whoosing, slight buzzing sound coming from it. The air turbulence noise is not as loud at the Antec 380S but what’s noticeable about the noise signature of the Nexus is that it isn’t constant or consistent. There’s an occasional click or stutter to the noise levels, which to me is more annoying than the slightly louder but consistent whoosing of the Antec 380S. It's not enough to stop me going to sleep or loud enough to wake me up, but it's enough to occasional distract me, particularly when I'm just about to drift off to sleep.

As I don’t have MikeC’s high tech sound measuring gizmos, here’s a mini subjective sound comparison chart (10 is the loudest, 0 is absolute silence), taken from 1 metre away from the component (closed case).

Component (Relative Sound Level)

Dustbuster portable hoover (10+)
Antec Sonata 120m stock case fan @ 12v (7)
Antec Sonata 120m stock case fan @ 5v (3)
Thermaltake Silentboost 80mm Panaflo @ 12v (7)
Thermaltake Silentboost 80mm Panalfo @ 6/7v (2)
Antec Truepower 380S (4)
Nexus 120mm fan @ 12v (2-3)
Nexus 4090 400W Psu @ idle (2-3)
Silence (0)

Conclusion

After two days of listening to this PSU during various times of the day, I have to say that it’s a good PSU in terms of sound levels, but it’s not silent (not in my setup anyway). During the daytime, the PSU sound is not really noticeable. However, during really quiet periods, and definitely during the dead of night, you do notice that the PSU is on. The noise signature is not as ‘clean’ or as consistent as I had hoped for. I do not know whether all units are like this, whether I’ve got an slightly glitchy model or whether it's my compoent load. It’s has actually crossed my mind as to whether I should put the Antec 380S back into my main rig. One thing that has become apparent to me during the last of couple of days of testing is that just comparing relative Db levels does provide the full picture – the noise signature and type of sound given off by the PSU is just as important as Db levels.

If the nirvana of silent computing is not knowing whether the PSU is “on” at any time of day – daytime, dead of night etc – then this PSU, in my opinion, doesn’t quite hit the mark. Overall, I’d give it 7.5 out of 10.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:48 am 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:56 am
Posts: 128
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
acaurora wrote:
As great as all this sounds, I hate to burst the bubble. I recently purchased a NX4090 from www.endpcnoise.com (which is DOWN, for some reason), and after connecting everything, it wont work! More specifically, I can't seem to get the HDDs to power up. The RAM also doesn't get any power, even though the DRAM LED POWER LED is lit. (I have the Corsair XMS XL Pro PC3200 512 MB x 2 DDR).

I honestly don't know what's wrong, and because EndPCNoise's site seems to be down for some mysterious reason, I can't find their RMA email address.

One thing I DID notice, though, was that the 20 (or is it 24? i forget) pin ATX power connector does not have dual wires inserted into 2 of the 20(or 24) pin holes. On my Seasonic A3 460W, dual wires are inserted into 2 of the 20(again, or 24, i forget) locations. Maybe that's why.

I HIGHLY doubt that it is because it cannot power my system. a 60W difference is not that much, and the 400W power is quite a lot, mind you.

Oh well. If any of you have the email address for EndPCNoise's RMA department, i'd gladly appreciate it. I'd like to get an exchange, and, if the 2nd one fails on me, I'm just going to return that one and stick with my A3.


Why are you ordering one of those? You have a SS460W A3, aren't they suppose to be the most quiet or at the very top atleast? Well if/when you get the NX4090 working can you make a direct comparison between the 2.

I've got a SS 400W A3/M1A mod(by MikeC 8))..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:10 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:51 am
Posts: 1464
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Mine somehow makes a whiny noise that varies in pitch... and it's getting annoying. I might RMA to see if it's just me, maybe I might be able to get the new version of the A3 with the PCi Express/Yate Loon fan ^.^

_________________
My Pretty Black P180 Rig .:drool:.
"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of mad silence." -acaurora


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:25 am 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:56 am
Posts: 128
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Ok, mine is PCI Express ready, well it's the one MikeC reviewed actually I think. Can you make out if the noise is from the fan or is it the famous "coil whine"? What fan does your have?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:58 pm 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:51 am
Posts: 1464
Location: Elk Grove, CA
It has the SuperRed one. Mine is the A3 that came out before the ones MikeC reviewed, thus it does not have the PCI Express connectors nor the Yate Loon fan. I believe the whine is from the fan, because if I use my fan controller to turn off the other case fans, and monitor the PSU's fan via SpeedFan, I see the fan drop down in speed to ~ 1500 RPMs, then skyrocket back up. While the fan slows down, the whine disappears as well. The whine appears to be at around 1700-1750 RPM, which, unfortunately, is the spin rate that mine usually is at ~.~

The ones MikeC has are, I suppose, an A3v2.... while mine is the A3v1... there's no way to tell based upon the sticker, only by the connectors (PCI express). I do hope that Seasonic does recall or does something so that all A3s will be v2s when in stores, because having an A3v1 and A3v2 business is very confusing =[

_________________
My Pretty Black P180 Rig .:drool:.
"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of mad silence." -acaurora


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 pm 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:51 am
Posts: 1464
Location: Elk Grove, CA
I fixed my problem. You know what it was? THE STUPID VOLTAGE SELECTOR!!!!! ARG.... didn't even bother to check, but my Nexus, along with Deheinx's 4090 PSU, the voltage selector was set to 230V, instead of 115. I will check it tomorrow to see how it performs :P

_________________
My Pretty Black P180 Rig .:drool:.
"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of mad silence." -acaurora


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group