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 Post subject: Re: CAREFUL!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:41 pm 
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Kimo wrote:
A word of warning to everyone here trying to put passive heatsinks on their Nforce4 -

These things are FRAGILE and they have an EXPOSED CORE, like the old Thunderbirds. On my A8N-E The core chipped with the original HS on it!

Could you elaborate a bit more on what happened to you? Did you have a problem while removing the original heat sink/fan for the Nforce4 chip?

I will soon be replacing the stock HSF fan on my A8N-E and would like more information.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:27 pm 
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Sure, I can elaborate.

I put a Zalman HS (the big blue one) on my NF4 chip. When I was installing my HS I noticed that the NF4 had one corner chipped off. This is right after I took off my NB HS.

It partially booted but didn't even finish the bios info screen - It just hung up. Then, I get power to the cards and fans but it never boots.

Be REALLY careful. REALLY REALLY careful. The warranty is void if you remove the fan. I was having some problems prior to this that I am sure were related to some prior damage to the NB. When I re-installed the stock HS, I noticed that it tips pretty easily from side to side. Just don't poke it too much or it WILL bust the core.

Also, be really careful about the cooler on your gfx card, if it is pushing on the NB HS then it may bust the core.

Good luck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:38 am 
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The nForce4-SLI has about the same appearance as an AthlonXP manufactured at 0.18. Of course you can chip, scratch or break the core if you aren't careful. The GeForce 6600 core looks also a bit exposed, but it seems to have a layer of ?protection? over the core.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:02 am 
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So how would you clean and install the heatsink? I don't have much experience with installing heatsinks, with my only experience being applying Ceramique on a a Pentium 4 (which has a heat spreader).

Is it really very delicate?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:41 am 
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Well, it's been a bit of a sweat-generating experience for me... The Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe is quite expensive and I had it sent from the UK (in my country only now it becomes available), so any damage would have been irreparable. My Thermalright NB-1 has a bit different installation procedure than the Zalman NB47J, and has a very smooth bottom. With the NB47J I would check the quality of the finish on the bottom, and if it's a bit rough, apply more AS5. For the cleaning of the NB-1 I used isopropylic alchohol, but for the cleaning of the nForce4 core just plain alcohol, since there is a ?plastic? shim around it, and I've read about people getting that shim swollen by using isopropylic.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:56 pm 
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The following picture shows the Leadtek GeForce 6600 GT / 128MB with Zalman VF700-AlCu (replacing the stock Leadtek HSF) on a Asus 939 NF4Ultra A8N-E motherboard, with the Zalman ZM-NB47J chipset HS installed (replacing the stock Asus chipset HSF). Note that there is plenty of clearance for the two Zalman HS's. This is not the case with all video cards on the same motherboard based on other pics I have seen on this forum.

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:44 am 
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Yeah, that looks like enough clearance - my XFX 6800gt causes the vf700 to push down on one side of the Zalman heatsink - I'm going to have to mod it once I get my new motherboard.


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 Post subject: Re: CAREFUL!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:12 pm 
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Kimo wrote:
A word of warning to everyone here trying to put passive heatsinks on their Nforce4 -

These things are FRAGILE and they have an EXPOSED CORE, like the old Thunderbirds.


I completely agree. This is a flip-chip core, with an exposed (and small) core on the top. You MUST keep the heatsink stable as you set the push pins. You should not do this if you don't have the time to do it slowly.

Remember that crunchy noises are a bad sign. :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:29 pm 
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Hmm - maybe I shouldn't be doing this, since my only experience with applying thermal interface was on a Pentium 4 (with heat spreader).

Should I just go with an nForce 3 (and socket 754), as most nForce 3 boards have passive heatsinks already?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:44 pm 
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I did a little mod to fit a zalman cooler on my gigabyte board.
URL to really big image.

Moderator Edit: Linked oversized image


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 Post subject: Fitting VF700 an 6800GT with Swiftech MCX159
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:10 am 
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I'm about to grapple with a new build of an nforce4 system. I have a Leadtek 6800GT, a Zalman VF700-Cu, an Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe and a Swiftech MCX159. In another forum, someone with the same parts has posted that he installed a VF700 using the opposite mounting holes to those suggested by Zalman, which has the effect of rotating the big fins anticlockwise and upwards, away from the nforce4 chipset. This leaves more room for a replacement heatsink.

I suppose I am going to try this tomorrow so please could anyone who knows this is a bad idea chime in now before it is too late!


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 Post subject: Re: CAREFUL!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:34 am 
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Kimo wrote:
Additionally, I'd like to see some more passively cooled NF4 MBs.


There is (or was) one: the Chaintech VNF4

Image

Unfortunately, cooling wasn't so efficient, according to xbitlabs:

Quote:
After this discovery we got to overclocking with new enthusiasm. Controlling the frequency from the OS we got more impressive results. At x5 HyperTransport multiplier the system remained stable till the clock generator frequency reached 237MHz. With 4x HyperTransport, we raised the frequency to 292MHz. When we dropped the HyperTransport multiplier to x3, we managed to increase the clock-generator frequency to 305MHz. After that we encountered a new problem, this time a fatal one. As I have mentioned above, the chipset on Chaintech VNF4 Ultra VE mainboard is cooled by a passive needle-shaped heatsink of a medium size, and our supposition that this heatsink wouldn’t handle the chipset during overclocking came true at 305MHz clock generator frequency. When the mainboard was tested for stability in this mode, its nForce4 Ultra chip got overheated and burned out beyond repair. So, basing on our tragic experience, we have to claim now that nForce4 series chipsets require active cooling, at least the two top models of the series do. You should keep this fact in mind when choosing a mainboard for overclocking. For the owners of Chaintech VNF4 Ultra VE we recommend to mount a fan on the chipset heatsink. Just in case.


As a result, if you go to the Chaintech global page, you now get this:

Image

Maybe passive cooling is not a good idea after all. :?


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 Post subject: nforce4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:49 am 
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Location: Europe
I agree. I used on my Asus A8n-sli a zalman ZM-NB32J, but this sink on the nforce4 chip got too hot to be touched.

Image

I had to add a Papst fan 412/2 40x40x20 mm., 18 dB(A), 10 m³/h, blowing on top of the sink, and at 7V is almost silent. Not perfect, but much, much quieter and cooler than before!.

Image
Regards


Last edited by fjf on Thu May 05, 2005 8:41 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:24 am 
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Well, I'll either be purchasing a DFI or Asus board soon - and I'll try to replace the heatsink. Hopefully I'll have no issues with chipping the core! :(

To keep it cool, I'll be putting a 120mm fan on a Zalman fan bracket. It looks like the bracket isn't long enough to position the fan over the chipset, but do you think it will be okay?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:25 am 
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Edmil -

I have sent a message to Zalman regarding rotating the VF700. I would like to do the same thing. I would certainly feel better with more metal on the NForce4, but I am concerned about the double die on the 6800gt - There seems to be a big one and a small one, and I think it is important to make sure both make good contact with the heatsink.

[Edit: Here are some pics from anandtech that show what you are talking about - it looks ok, but...]

http://home.comcast.net/~hwan-td/SYS3.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~hwan-td/SYS4.JPG

[Edit 2: More googling...]
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... erthread=y


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:02 pm 
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Anyone ever consider, think of, seen, etc a system where a 120mm fan would generate airflow, then split it up into a 92mm duct to the cpu and a 40mm duct to the northbridge?

So basicly put a 120mm on a 92mm heatsink with some kind of converter and use the remaining fan surface to attach a 40mm duct somehow.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:42 am 
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What about the Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra-SLI?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:52 am 
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Ok everyone - here is the response from Zalman:

Quote:
Dear Jamie,

If there are no other parts on the graphic card that interfere with the way you want to install the VF700, it should be ok.

Best regards,

Support

Zalman USA, Inc.


Soo it looks like we can do this! Good news for the 6800GT owners.

Jamie


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 Post subject: VF700 orientation
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:00 am 
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Good news from Zalman. I had already gone ahead anyway and I can't see why there would be problems. The heatsink seems to cover the core quite nicely. My only issue was that I forgot to bring any isopropyl alcohol to where I was doing the build so I left the Leadtek thermal paste on the core and RAM chips. It seemed like there was a lot of it. I had intended to use AS5 or Ceramique. Anyway, the ramsinks didn't really stick too well to this paste but if you don't bump the case they don't fall off! Not sure what you mean by a "double die" - at any rate I did not notice two dies. There was an extra piece of stock heatsink to the right of the main one, which I left in place as it does not interfere with anything.

I have a 120mm Nexus in front of the drive cage and with only two drives in an SLK3000B some air does pass over the MCX159. So far, the pins of the MCX159 have been no more than warm to the touch but I have only installed WindowsXP and done nothing more taxing. This is mainly because I am waiting for a twin-molex-to-6-pin Pci Express adapter for the 6800GT. I have just been powering it through the PCI Express slot, which must be a bad idea, even if just doing an installation in VGA mode.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:23 am 
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I have that Chaintech mobo that is talked about on this thread. It came with an annoyingly loud fan!!! Instead of heatsink. I don't do ANY overclocking at all. Would a heatsink or quieter fan be an option? Thing is, I bought the Seasonic S12 430 power supply, but i got the mobo fan, 6600GT fan and stock AMD fan that are all loud as heck!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:00 am 
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Hi,

im also new to silent pc hardware. I have the Zalman 7000a and a coolermaster fan. My mainboard is the K8N neo4 f serieswhich is very loud. I tried reading all posts but my english knowledge around fans isn´t very good. So can the blue zalman cool my nforce chip without an additional fan blowing at it ? space shouldn´t be the problem but if i ead ur posts i thinkjust the zalman isn´t enough for the chip is that right ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:22 am 
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dwd3885 wrote:
I have that Chaintech mobo that is talked about on this thread. It came with an annoyingly loud fan!!! Instead of heatsink. I don't do ANY overclocking at all. Would a heatsink or quieter fan be an option? Thing is, I bought the Seasonic S12 430 power supply, but i got the mobo fan, 6600GT fan and stock AMD fan that are all loud as heck!!

It is fairly well accepted that to get a quiet PC, you have replace the stock CPU HSF, video HSF, and chipset HSF. For CPU's, Thermalright and Zalman are the most popular. For the video, Zalman and Artic Cooler are probably best. Many people use a passive Zalman HS for the chipset, especially if the the video or other fan is blowing any kind of air on the passive chipset HS.

You will also want to have your hard drives soft mounted, at the very least using soft gromments for the mounting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:05 am 
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Real newbie question, but in view of Kimo's warning I want to make sure I don't screw up.

How do I remove the stock chipset fan on an Asus A8N Deluxe SLI?
Do I just pull the plastic pins out and pull the fan assembly off, or is it more involved than that?
I'm assuming I don't need to remove the mobo from the case.

Thanks
Phil


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:27 am 
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angleseven wrote:
I'm assuming I don't need to remove the mobo from the case.

Typically you would need to remove the motherboard, as you need access to the back of the board to compress the plastic pinheads.

_________________
Deal with it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:42 am 
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I cut the plastic pins off from the bottom of the motherboard using diagonal pliers. Then the HSF fan comes right off. I was afraid that while trying to compress the pins back through the board, I might damage the board with the pliers.

Then clean the bottom of the old HSF fan so you can use it to allign the location of the pins on your new Zalman HS. Getting the pins lined up correctly makes it easier to install the Zalman on the motherboard, and lessens the change of damaging the chip.

I have an Asus A8N-E and was amazed at how small the stock chipset HS was, notwithstanding that it had a fan on it.

BTW, does anyone know where to get replacement plastic pins for a Zalman in case I ever need to remount it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:46 am 
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Many thanks!


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 Post subject: What about keeping the stock
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:18 pm 
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Hey guys,

I have an Asus A8n-sli delux in a Arctic Cooling Silentium case.

Before I even visited this thread, I just slapped a Zalman Fanmate2 on the chipset fan and lowered its speed from 8000rpm to 4500rpm - This made the chipset effectively noiseless (i really cannot hear it).

Isnt this a good , if not the best solution? considering that there are huge risks of busting the exposed chipset if you remove and replace the original heatsink and fan?


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 Post subject: Re: What about keeping the stock
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:35 pm 
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twinturbo11 wrote:
Hey guys,

I have an Asus A8n-sli delux in a Arctic Cooling Silentium case.

Before I even visited this thread, I just slapped a Zalman Fanmate2 on the chipset fan and lowered its speed from 8000rpm to 4500rpm - This made the chipset effectively noiseless (i really cannot hear it).

Isnt this a good , if not the best solution? considering that there are huge risks of busting the exposed chipset if you remove and replace the original heatsink and fan?

You may be right. However, on my Asus A8N-E the chipset HSF I removed was such a pitifully small HS that I suspect that my passive Zalman is better even compared to the stock HS with fan. I think they are limited on how high they can go with the stock HS because of certain video cards, but my 6600GT was no problem (picture posted earlier in this thread). So I might be a little concerned about lowering the fan speed on such a small HSF.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:53 pm 
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Ok, so I ordered a Zalman cooler for the vid card, not the passive heatsink one, but the fan, I think it's VF7000. I ordered the Zalman Heatsink for my mobo. Now all that's left is the cpu cooler. I think I'm going to experience with speedfan a little bit, because with the setting at 65 percent for the cpu fan, it's pretty inaudible for my ears. I'll see what happens when I quiet down those other component!


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 Post subject: fan
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:10 pm 
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Touch the sink. It will be burning hot. I don't recommend it. You need a bigger sink to cool that bastard!.

Regards


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