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 Post subject: 90 nm A64 for S754, FINALLY!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:28 am 
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Found it here, a guy just bought one. I got quite surprised! AMD lists 3 models with stepping E:
3000+, 2.0 GHz, 512 kB L2 cache
3200+, 2.0 GHz, 512 kB L2 cache (must be a typo, 2.2 GHz I guess)
3400+, 2.4 GHz, 512 kB L2 cache

Not such a big deal anymore though, since Semprons got 64-bit extensions. L2 cache is not that important.
Mobile Athlon 64 and Turion 64 are two other alternatives if your motherboard supports it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:14 am 
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Talk about late.


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 Post subject: Re: 90 nm A64 for S754, FINALLY!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:43 am 
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Mats wrote:
3000+, 2.0 GHz, 512 kB L2 cache
3200+, 2.0 GHz, 512 kB L2 cache (must be a typo, 2.2 GHz I guess)

51W and 59W respectively compared to Sempron's 62W. :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:48 am 
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11 W difference is always something. The 3000+ got 51 W which looks individual and reliable. 62 W for Sempron are for all models from 1.4 to 2.0 GHz (both S462 and S754 :roll: ), there's a possbility that this number is made for an upcoming, faster CPU.
S754 owners got a lot to choose from, Athlon, Mobile Athlon, Sempron, Mobile Sempron and Turion. No bigger difference though, a dual core would have been more exciting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:02 am 
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I think a dual-core would have attracted people to buy S754 motherboards. But with this it just gives the current S754 owners another option.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:11 pm 
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S754 is the budget option (socket A peaked long ago) - dual core is hardly budget right now! I wouldn't expect it until at least another 6 months.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:20 pm 
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StarfishChris wrote:
S754 is the budget option (socket A peaked long ago) - dual core is hardly budget right now! I wouldn't expect it until at least another 6 months.

S754 is also the mobile socket, and that's a bigger reason why dual core would show up. AFAIK it won't, dual core will come for the new socket S1 only with 65 nm manufacturing process and dual channel memory.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:01 pm 
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perplex wrote:
Talk about late.

I hope this isn't indicative of the time it will take them to get 65nm parts to S939.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:39 pm 
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er hm. i remember semprons being really really really crappy for gaming. I game. so that's a big factor.

I have a 3000+ 2.0 512 right now. I am planing on getting a 3700+ for this machine because you can find them cheap and the 2.4 ghz 1 meg cache is a big jump that will hold me over for another year of gaming (i will get an x800XT card, good enough for a year of cutting edge gaming it seems, just not at stupid high resolutions)

NOW... I see tonight that someone says E stepping. is 90 nm with 2.4ghz and 512K ?? I would buy that instead. or is it sempron lameness with something special added?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:26 am 
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~El~Jefe~ wrote:
er hm. i remember semprons being really really really crappy for gaming.

Those are really strong words. Of course Sempron is slower! It got a lower price too! It's not just that bad.
Look here (they're using both 90 and 130 nm chips though, not fair). Yeah you've probably seen it before.
On the other hand I'd better shut up. I mean, why am I sitting here with a 1 MB L2 cache chip? :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:32 am 
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jackylman wrote:
perplex wrote:
Talk about late.

I hope this isn't indicative of the time it will take them to get 65nm parts to S939.

Which I still don't think will happen.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:57 pm 
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Mats wrote:
jackylman wrote:
perplex wrote:
Talk about late.

I hope this isn't indicative of the time it will take them to get 65nm parts to S939.

Which I still don't think will happen.


Why not? They've said in the roadmap that Semprons will be built for S939 in '07. What happens with it until then? And, if S754 is any indicator, will we get the parts after then? It would be a very good way to keep people from moving to Intel.

I'm guessing all they will need is a revised mem controller for DDR instead of DDR2.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:53 pm 
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jackylman wrote:
Why not?

It's just my opinion, I hope I'm wrong.
jackylman wrote:
It would be a very good way to keep people from moving to Intel.

Those "people" you're talking about, are you suggesting that they would think something like "If AMD won't make a 65 nm S939, then I'm buying an Intel."? Sure, some people will do that, the question is if how many they are. If their opinion matters at all compared to all the thousands of machines sold for office use.
Let's make some guessing here. How many AMD CPU's sold goes to persons who actually cares about which manufacturing process it's made in? Less then 1 % is my guess, but let's say 1 % to make it easy. Now out of that 1 %, how many of those can't imagine buying a new mobo and RAM?

And why would they buy Intel? If they do that they'll most certainly need new mobo and RAM, they might as well buy a socket M2 instead. So going Intel is not a reason for keeping it low cost.

Every time a new socket shows up there are some people who can't stop worrying about what they'll miss by having a one generation older computer. Trust me, I'm one of them. I've done stupid things because of that. It has costed me money. :roll:

People are staring blindly at a certain socket type that they actually forget everything else, like a lot of features on a mobo gets outdated. Look at S462 or S478 for instance, they both stayed in the market for a long time, but the only thing the oldest and the newest mobo have in common is the socket. You simply don't want to put a newer P4 in your old i850 mobo simply because it won't run at 200/800 MHz, and that's just one example. Other things like DDR RAM, support for more L2 cache, better overclocking, better sound, faster/newer AGP slot, hyperthreading. It never ends.

We can probably agree that 65 nm S939 will most unlikely show up during 2006, which means that it'll take more than a year for them to show up, if they ever do. It can happen a lot of things while we're waiting during those more than 12 months. AFAIK there's a new revision of PCIE on it's way for instance.

And S462 never got 90 nm. S754 finally got 90 nm A64, but it was so late that almost nobody cares it seems, and the reason why they got it at all is that they're using the same cores. S462 and S754 got some extra attention because they are also mobile sockets, S939 is not. AMD is showing up three new sockets to replace the old ones, F, M2, and S1.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:00 pm 
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jackylman wrote:
They've said in the roadmap that Semprons will be built for S939 in '07.

You must be talking about 2006, right?
I don't think X-bit labs got one 14 months before release.
Quote:
Today three Socket 939 Sempron models, with ratings of 3000+, 3200+ and 3400+, are being distributed among the OEMs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:13 pm 
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Yes, I know I'm deluding myself, but it's fun.

I guess AMD meant ONLY Semprons will use S939 in 07. Basically, AMD still hasn't explicitly stated what they're doing with S939 in '06.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:13 pm 
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is a sempron 90nm 754 with 512KB cache up to the same gaming power as a 754 a64 with 512KB cache now??

im confused. In order for that to be the case, the core must have 64 bit memory controller, it must have all the extensions, must have same cache on all levels. etc.

is it so? the new 90nm parts can replace my 3000+ a64 130nm??

that would be neat. I would sacrifice the full cache and get a 2.4 ghz model, it would run very cool then :)

I was goign to try and buy a 3700+ 754, the 2.4 ghz 130nm chip with 1 meg cache. but... if the sempron is around now, could it compete?

-------------------
some say E6 stepping yet it clearly on amd says E3. duno the difference but isnt E6. Venice in general is awesome though. the 3400 hasnt shown up on the radar for buying yet....

Where is it ! I will buy it tonight! or would


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:12 am 
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~El~Jefe~ wrote:
is a sempron 90nm 754 with 512KB cache up to the same gaming power as a 754 a64 with 512KB cache now??

Why are you talking about a Sempron with 512 kB L2 cache? Where did you get that from?
Haven't you seen the link in the first post?
Pics of the box, the CPU, and a screendump are here.
And the link again to AMDCompare.
Athlon 64!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:40 am 
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ok so it seems you answered me.

one more question. why is it called sempron when it seems liek it is just 754 athlon 64 with 90nm process?

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY!!!

WHERE IS IT TO BUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:00 am 
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While going from 130nm to 90nm for the S754 gives a decent drop of about 11W of power, the main reason for the drop is to phase out the older equipment that produces 130nm CPU in favor of the now widely available 90nm process. This reduces costs for AMD because more CPUs can be made on a silicon wafer using 90nm instead of 130nm. It is no surprise that this is not major news.

Will the S939 be produced using the 65nm process? Yes, I think so but not any earlier than the end of 2007. M2 CPUs (and I think S1 CPUs) are expected to be produced using the 65nm process in the second half of 2006, if everything goes according to plan. AMD (and Intel) will be replacing all of their 90nm manufacturing equipment with 65nm so it seems logical that AMD will produce the S939 using 65nm. But that will probably be the last hurrah for the good ol' S939 before being phased out in 2008 (IIRC).

While the migration of the S939 from 90nm to 65nm will produce more power efficient CPUs, the main goal is to reduce costs. This is similar to the S754's transition to 90nm. If and when this happens it will also be a silent launch.

Although 65nm CPUs have recently been released by Intel, Intel already has plans to migrate to the 45nm manufacturing process by 2008. AMD typically trails Intel in terms of manufacturing process by 6 to 9 months and if this holds true in the near future then AMD will be producing 45nm Athlons no later than 2009.

So what to do with all the information available on upcoming CPUs? Well, for those who have already upgraded recently all this information is probably a interesting read. But for those who on the verge of upgrading their PCs, like me, all this info about socket M2, DDR2 and 65nm can cause quite a bit of hesitation.

Socket M2 is supposed to come out in Q2 of 2006, but will not be manufactured on 65nm, that won't happen until the second half of 2006. Also, I think it's would be fair to say that Revision 1 of any product can be a bit buggy and maybe not as optimized as it could be. I am specifically referring to motherboards, so being there first to jump on new technology may be the "Mecca" for the techo-geek, it is not without it's risks. I would think that revised motherboards with better stability will be out about 3 months after their intial introduction, which would be around Q3 2006, if M2 comes out in Q2 2006.

I'm guessing that it will not be until the middle of Q3 where we will see stable motherboards for socket M2, and the transition to 65nm. That's a long time to wait before upgrading my ancient Athlon XP-M 2600+ to an Athlon 64. By then there will most likely be another drop in Athlon 64 prices:

http://www.behardware.com/html/news/cat2/page2.html

In the end I don't think it is worth the wait for the 65nm socket M2, and I prefer to upgrade sooner rather than later, but that depends on a couple of things outside of all this techno babble about CPUs. Namely:

1. How much more will I be spending on Christmas gifts this year?
2. How much will I have to dish out to the IRS next year come tax season?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:19 am 
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~El~Jefe~ wrote:
one more question. why is it called sempron when it seems liek it is just 754 athlon 64 with 90nm process?

This is what I don't understand, what are you talking about??
Who calls it a Sempron?

~El~Jefe~ wrote:
WHERE IS IT TO BUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Patience, my friend! :lol:
Newegg seems to have the 3000+, but you want a 3400+ which doesn't even have a retail code (yet), seems like its OEM only so far. Who cares. The problem is that it may be harder to find since it's OEM only. Ask your local dealer if they can get it, just give 'em the code: ADA3400AIK4BO


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:29 am 
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[quote="~El~Jefe~"]ok so it seems you answered me.

one more question. why is it called sempron when it seems liek it is just 754 athlon 64 with 90nm process?

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY!!!

WHERE IS IT TO BUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:[/quote]

If I remember correclty (IIRC) the newest Sempron 3400+ (Palmero core) is based on the Venice core. It is different from your typical Athlon 64 S754 because it's L2 cache is only 256K, as opposed to a 512k L2 cache in a true Athlon 64.

There may be a couple of other differences, but I generally don't keep myself informed of "budget" CPUs.

Here's an article if you want to find out more about the performance of the Sempron 3400+.

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/c ... hp/3524786


Last edited by stupid on Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:38 am 
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Stop confusing it all with this Semporn talk.

All K8 got 128 kB L1 cache per core.
All Semprons got either 128 or 256 kB L2 cache
All A64 and T64 got either 512 or 1024 kB L2 cache per core
All Opterons and got 1024 kB L2 cache per core

Gosh...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:48 pm 
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bah so they arent semprons ok.


do they have a name like clawhammer, newcastle, etc?

Me wants one. the 2.4 ghz one.


OH, what is E3 vs E6 stepping entail?

http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop ... 3400AIK4BO


that's E3.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:54 pm 
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~El~Jefe~ wrote:
do they have a name like clawhammer, newcastle, etc?

Should be Venice. All E3 A64 are Venice.

The XS guys can tell you about the difference between E3 and E6. Most people (including me) wouldn't notice the difference.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:25 pm 
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I'm pretty sure that M2 is supported by all the new chipsets coming out now like the Crossfire and the new ULI single chip. The process for switching to M2 should be easy for motherboard makers. The memory controller is on-chip


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:33 am 
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hm, crossfire. sounds like it will look great as image quality is supposedly really great, so it might be nicer over SLI for that. however, ati's best boards are REAL power hogs. a 7800GT which handles most things great on highest settings actually doesnt use that much power.

Also, M2 is about 20% more power usage. That sux. all for "security". this security is mostly to secure things like legit copies of new Vista, anything else is easily hacked that is hardware of course. DDR2 does use less power, but the difference is a couple of watts which means notthing if m2 uses much more in total.

I do not know if I should bother to wait for M2. I know right now that the lowest power for speed possible system right now is a k8t800 pro chipset on a 754 board with that new spankin super-sexed 3400 90nm athlon 64. (via's 754 chipset uses the least power by 15-30 watts compared to nforce 3 and 4)
I would doubt that I could use a turion anyways, x2 wasnt meant for my chipset. 3400 would be the sweet spot


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:44 pm 
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Hey I am bumping this, why? cuz it is important for 754 people who dont want to upgrade but feel compelled to.

this is the only thing that could delay my new computer purchase for about another year solid.

Any word on anyone selling any of these badboys? the 3400 is probably going to be priced really low as it is cheaper to make and has half the cache disabled (512 vs 1 meg, and 90nm is much cheaper)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:01 am 
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I would have to agree that these CPUs can postpone someone upgrading from 754 to 939. I think the main difference between the two is the memory controller which is limited to 3.2GB/sec on the 754 (IIRC). The shrink also reduces heat as well. So this is a good thing for a quieter 754 'cause the CPU fan's RPM can be lowered.

It would also be nice too if AMD gives one more speed bump for the 754 as it is nearing the end of it's production life. But I don't remember seeing any faster 754 on AMD's roadmap.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:16 am 
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2.6 ghz 90nm would make me not buy one for 2 years :D

amd doesnt want that!!!

anyone have word where to get one yet?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:56 am 
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Newegg has the 90nm A64 3000+ S754 in stock for $139 + $4 shipping.

[url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103606] Click Here.[/url]

Edit.....
Hmmm doesn't seem to take the link using the '[url=][/url]' tag. Oh well, just copy and paste.


Last edited by stupid on Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:10 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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