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 Post subject: Geforce 4 ti and a zalman flower bracket
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 3:09 am 
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Location: Sheffield, UK
ok i have some searched but not found anything, apologies if ive missed something.
I have the zalman flower copper/aluminium heatsink bracket and fan.
i am going to put some silent fans in my PSu and replace the zalman fan for a quiter one. this leaves the geforce card with the little whiney fan still. i read in the faq for this board that most will be fine if you remove the little fan and put a larger silent one in. My question is if i mount the fan on the curved edge of the zalman bracket and position the fan so it just blows over both sides of the board will that give enough cooling? the heatsink seems relatively small and i know of no way i can check its temperature so wondered if anyone has doen it successfully or has any tips.
Its a pny geforce ti 4200 and already had heatsinks on the ram.
i dont overclock or play many games but it would be nice if the system was stable for gameplay. what happens to the geforce gpu if it overheats? does it throttle like the p4 or explode like the athlon?
thanks a lot.
Mynci


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 Post subject: Re: Geforce 4 ti and a zalman flower bracket
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:02 pm 
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mynci wrote:
? the heatsink seems relatively small and i know of no way i can check its temperature so wondered if anyone has doen it successfully or has any tips.
Its a pny geforce ti 4200 and already had heatsinks on the ram.
i dont overclock or play many games but it would be nice if the system was stable for gameplay. what happens to the geforce gpu if it overheats? does it throttle like the p4 or explode like the athlon?


Tips: The heatsink is an OK size. I unplugged my fan on my Radeon, and I'm fine with no fan blowing over the heatsink.

The first sign of overheating is lots of random white pixels in games...then the GPU may eventually explode.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:14 pm 
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thanks
I found the article on comparing the zalman heatpipe with running with a standard hs and large fan mounted above.
the review showed that the geforce card ran a little hot with the standard heatsink but probably not dangerously so.
I would like to change my question to:
which would be better, a fan mounted at right angles to the card, blowing over both sides, or a fan mounted in the slot next to the card blowing straight onto it, or, as muffin man suggest would it be safe to unplug the fan altogether, provided theres a decent airflow in the case.
obviously i wold rather have less fans, as they are cheaper and quiter, but im not willing to risk the graphics card.
thanks a lot


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:33 am
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Location: Paris, France
Hi!
I just faced the same "fan vs card angle" question, and finally went for a home-made "suspended" fan (inspired from Zalman 123 fixation system), blowing 45° upward the lower side of the rad.

mynci wrote:
which would be better, a fan mounted at right angles to the card, blowing over both sides,

- My GF4 is sandwiched between its rad, but the tiny fan only blows on the lower side. So I assume there is no need for fan cooling the top side.
- Right angle might be risky if not enough air goes below the card where the critical areas ( GPU and RAM) are located.
But safer than no fan at all.

mynci wrote:
or a fan mounted in the slot next to the card blowing straight onto it,

You loose one slot, then other pci card prevent good airflow to enter and exit the fan (you loose efficiency both ends). Pressing the fan on the card will smash air on the rad, resulting in pressure noise.


mynci wrote:
as muffin man suggest would it be safe to unplug the fan altogether, provided theres a decent airflow in the case.
obviously i wold rather have less fans, as they are cheaper and quiter, but im not willing to risk the graphics card.
thanks a lot

I did not have the guts (and money!) to take that risk.

So... all this being considered, here is what I did:
- For better air flow, I decided to keep some distance ( 4-5cm) between the fan and the lower side of the rad.
- But because of other PCI cards, I had to find a way to mount the fan 5cm South-East of the rad, 4cm East of the next PCI card, and 4 cm above the case bottom.
- I saw postings on the new Zalman fixation "arm", and built a cheapo, shorter version of it from a spare slot cover.
- My "fixation" is screwed to the bottom of the case, and the fan is screwed to it by one of its angle. (will post a photo later on).

Works real fine, really killed the noise (fan & turbulence) and ensures far better cooling! ... and no cost since I reused a spare Noiseblocker S2!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:36 am 
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A couple of points:

Fan blowing directly at the fan of the card will get you better cooling, but only if you have at least 2 open PCI slots to the card, so the fan will be able to draw enough air in. If the fan is squeezed between the VGA and another PCI card then it won't be able to move much air at all. Ideally you'd want the fan an inch or two from the VGA heatsink, to minimize the dead spot created by the large hub on the 80mm fan.

Now if you had something like the Zalman HP-80 installed on your card, then you'd want to have the fan blowing at the edge.

No geforce4 card will fry itself if it gets too hot. It will lock up before it gets hot enough to do any damage to itself. The best test for VGA cooling is to run 3DMark03 in a loop for half an hour. If it gets through that without any artifacting or lockups then you're fine.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:38 am 
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Location: Paris, France
OK, here is a picture of my TI4200 cooled with a 80mm Noiseblocker S2:
Image

I simply unplugged the stock 45mm noisy fan, leaving it where it on the rad.
I like the Zalman 123 bracket approach, but thought a 45° angle between the fan and the card would bring interesting points:
- there is sufficient space behing the fan, so it can suck without turbulence noise
- the fan is not to close to the card, so the air flow can develop (more cooling power) while limiting turbulence noise ( no smashing effect).
- the fan contributes to sucking air into the case from under the HDD (not visible, but 2cm right of the fan).
- after cooling the Ti rad, air can exit the case through the empty pci slot below the card.
- some air goes above the card, contributing to airflow in the chipset area.

So I mounted the fan on a spare PCI slot cover (easy to bend), that is screwed to one of the mobo mounting screw (mobo is micro ATX ,leaving all bottom fixation screws unused).
To reduce vibrations (although very limited), I put a cheap elastic rubber band between the fan and the pci slot cover.

Currently the fan is at 12V, but I am considering 5Volting it, as I can't see how this could be worse than the stock 45mm noisy fan.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:38 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 9:30 pm
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Location: uk
Rusty075 wrote:
A couple of points:



No geforce4 card will fry itself if it gets too hot. It will lock up before it gets hot enough to do any damage to itself. The best test for VGA cooling is to run 3DMark03 in a loop for half an hour. If it gets through that without any artifacting or lockups then you're fine.


confirmed from 1st hand experience (2 x)

o and FLD, keep us posted on your progress :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:46 pm 
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I've wondered this before but this brings it up again, why the hell are GPUs on the bottom of video cards? Those suckers get hot.

Also I was wondering, Rusty said if you have the Zalman heatpipe you want the fan pointing at the edge. Isn't the Zalman heatpipe a big enough beast that you wouldn't need a fan on it at all, even on the newest video cards and playing Quake or something, such as the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro for example? (which I just bought :) )

PS. does anyone have any experience with those PCI slot fan things that suck air out the slot? They have some potential for cooling a video card, maybe could undervolt one. It's too bad the GPU isn't on top and then you maybe have some kind of slot above it, then you could put this directly above the GPU. http://shop.store.yahoo.com/computergan ... cofan.html
What if... :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:53 pm 
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Location: uk
I have had 2 - 1 really quiet, one noisy - same model.
Put it in your case and it starts whooshing too much to be quiet (tried it on both) :(

btw - my geforce 4 locked up a further 2 times. Back to the drawing board then :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:08 am 
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MikeK wrote:
I've wondered this before but this brings it up again, why the hell are GPUs on the bottom of video cards? Those suckers get hot.


Shortly:

Before PCI/AGP, computers had ISA/EISA/VESA buses. During the transition computers had both buses. To make this possible, the ISA and PCI slots were interlocked so that PCI slots were between the ISA slots. The PCB of the PCI/AGP cards had to be turned to align the card's bracket (the metal part which You screw to the case) with the case's card slots.

Hopefully this is revesed again when PCI Express starts to appear on the new boards.

Cheers,

Jan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:27 pm 
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FLD: That leadtek-card is good that way. I wish I had thought about it while I had it.

MikeK: In my experience it is so, at least with GF4 Ti and the card I have now (FX5600), but the beauty with the heatpipe is that even with a trickle of airflow (faitly good case-ventilation, a very slowspeedfan) it removes great amounts of heat. It isn´t that hard to install either, if you take normal protection-messueres (try not to take directly at the card, but instead on the edges of it. discharge any static elecricity as often as possible:). I have done three times, so far, and I have a feeling it will be more times:)

The only downfall of the heatpipe, as I see it, is that the memorymodules is hard to cool, the HS gets in the way:)


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