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 Post subject: HTPC CPU Cooling
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:52 am 
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I'm looking to passively cool the CPU in my HTPC which is an Intel Core2Duo T7200 running on an Asus N4L-VM Motherboard. Now looking at the HSF mounting I actually need a northbridge cooler. I've seen the Thermalright HR05, which seems ideal, but I'm not sure if it will fit into the Antec Fusion case everything is sitting in.

I don't suppose anyone has tried...

Failing that does anyone know of a good silent solution.


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 Post subject: I might have found my own solution!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:30 am 
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Just came across this...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:46 am 
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Noctua's is probably best air cooled and passive solution there is for NB at the moment. But its also more expensive than Thermalrights HR-05. But Noctua's nb cooler is effective, no doubt about it.

Passive cooling HTPC case is pretty tough one as many are rather small and slim, reducing effectively passive coolers you can use.

http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_product_si128.htm Now I am not sure but this should be small enough to fit most HTPC cases and can be used passive.

For better understanding, could you tell us the case you're using for HTPC setup or give its measurements. It would tremendeously help us to look suitable coolers.

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Maturity is just not experience in life but also ability to make compromises.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:50 pm 
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thejamppa wrote:
For better understanding, could you tell us the case you're using for HTPC setup or give its measurements. It would tremendeously help us to look suitable coolers.

From post #1
Delta_42 wrote:
I'm not sure if it will fit into the Antec Fusion case everything is sitting in.

Antec Fusion Specsheet
Case Dimensions
5.5"(H) x 17.5"(W) x 16.3"(L)
14(H) x 44.5(W) x 41.4(L) cm

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Main PC: Antec SLK 3000B, Fortron Bluestorm 400w, Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, Intel e7300, Kingston 2x2Gb Value DDR2, OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb, 320Gb 7200.10, 750Gb Samsung. Silencing/Cooling mods= Glacialtech 120mm front fan, rear Tri-cool on low, CPU HSF = std @ 850rpm :D
WHS: Antec LS-100, GA-MA74GM-S2H, LE-1250, 2x2Gb XMS DDR2, 7Tb
HTPC: Antec NSK2480B, MA78GPM-DS2H & Athlon 64 X2 4850e


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 Post subject: Thanks for the replies
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:24 am 
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Thanks for the info. I think I'll go for the Noctua as it is lower and won't even be borderline as to whether it will fit in the Fusion. It is more expensive to be sure, but we're only talking £15 compared to £10 and considering what I've shelled out already to build this MPC £5 is neither here or there (although I should be saving all my pennies for an LG GGW-H10N or similar.

I had a little play last night with the stock HSF. With the fan disconnected and the 2x120s in the case on low the CPU hit 70 pretty quick on full load with TAT, but the temps under a regular load were acceptable even with the weedy heatsink Asus ship with the board, so I'm sure with a heatsink designed to be used passively and a bit of decent thermal compound the T7200 will be quite happy passively cooled. The next target is the fan on the 7600GT graphics card, although, on balance I might just leave that as is because:

1) once the fan slows down to idle its barely noticeable and
2) if I'm cooling the CPU passively and relying just on the case fans on low I'd rather not dump any more heat into the case, besides I'm dubious about the effectiveness of passive VGA coolers in a desktop case without the aid of convection.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:53 am 
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thejamppa wrote:
Noctua's is probably best air cooled and passive solution there is for NB at the moment. But its also more expensive than Thermalrights HR-05. But Noctua's nb cooler is effective, no doubt about it.

Passive cooling HTPC case is pretty tough one as many are rather small and slim, reducing effectively passive coolers you can use.

http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_product_si128.htm Now I am not sure but this should be small enough to fit most HTPC cases and can be used passive.

For better understanding, could you tell us the case you're using for HTPC setup or give its measurements. It would tremendeously help us to look suitable coolers.


Thanks for that, but I'm looking to use the Noctua to cool the CPU rather than as an NB cooler due to the odd mounts (two little hoops) the ASUS board uses. The si128 wouldn't fit on my board (N4L-VM).

Once I've got the Noctua I'll post a report and some pics.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:48 am 
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Firetech wrote:
thejamppa wrote:
For better understanding, could you tell us the case you're using for HTPC setup or give its measurements. It would tremendeously help us to look suitable coolers.

From post #1


LOL, I missed those few words, Antec Fusion. My bad ^^

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If seeing is believing, how can blind person believe in anything?
Maturity is just not experience in life but also ability to make compromises.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:32 pm 
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I'm surprised you would go to all the trouble of making your CPU passive-cooled, but keep the whiny VGA fan. Should be the other way 'round.

I'm using an XP-90 with a Nexus fan for the CPU in my NSK2400, with a passive VGA card and it's plenty quiet.

DE


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:07 pm 
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I made the CPU a priority because the stock CPU HSF is even more whiny, once the VGA fan has spun down to low speed its a lot quieter than the CPU fan, barely noticeable in fact.

However, having said that I've now ordered the Noctua NB cooler and a NorthQ VGA cooler which should quiten everything down.


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 Post subject: Update...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:39 am 
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The NorthQ VGA cooler arrived, but there was a cock-up at my supplier and the Noctua is on back-order :-(

I fitted the NorthQ (eventually, the fitting instructions seem to be a little misleading and I managed to lose one of the little rubber grommets and had to improvise :oops: )

The NorthQ fan is nice and quiet on its lowest settings (using the fan controller that was included) and my GPU is cooler than before (48 deg idle).

I've now got a SATA DVD in there too to cut down on cabling. Although I had to install Nero to control the drive speed as the NEC/Sony DVD drive sounded like a jet engine!

Hopefully the Noctua should be here by the middle of next week.


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 Post subject: Grr!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:43 am 
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Still no Noctua NSF cooler!!! The wholesaler seems to have screwed up an entire order to my supplier :(

However, having got sick of my gaming PC sounding like a hovercraft and high-ish temps on my overclocked E6600 so I've just sprung for an Antec p180 and a Scythe Ninja to replace the Coolermaster Wave and Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 I'm using currently.

The AC cooler is going to be recycled into a server I'm building (that won't be silent though, but will live in a cupboard on its own upstairs!). The AC cooler is probably overkill for the CeleronD 331 I just got to go in the server, but every little helps.

So by the end of weekend I'll be free from the hurricane sounding server I have currently (old NForce 2 board, AMD Athlon w/stock HSF in a cheap beige case) and my hot and loud gaming rig!


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 Post subject: Noctua NC-U6 on Asus N4L-VM DH
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:32 pm 
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Hi,

I have the Asus N4L-VM DH with a Merom T7200 (2.00), 2 x 1 GEIL 667, Zalman 360W PSU. case is Antec Sonata, have the stock 120 mm exhaust fan turned off most of the time, and no intake fan present. graphics card is changing one of these days, so onboard for the moment. HDD is a WD4000AAKS.

I want to passively cool the cpu, and was like so many people disappointed that no standard cpu cooler would fit. So i tried the Noctua NC-U6 chipset cooler today. Results: NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR COMPLETE PASSIVE COOLING.
Running some dual cpu rendering in cinebench, temps were rising above 55 C in a very short time (2 min). when back to idle, this only went down slowly, even with case open, and stayed above 50.

for decent cooling, you would still have to attach the stock fan (or another one) to this heatsink. i've read that this gives up to 10 C difference, but i've still got to test this. it would surprise me, because i've weighed them both: stock is 110 grams, noctua is 130 grams (also in specs). stock heatsink is all alu, noctua's has got quite some copper in it, but if i hold both in my hands, the stock cooler feels at least as solid.

I think it might be good enough to passively cool a Yonah, but not a Merom, unless your case airflow is superb and goes right throug the fins. but that's not passive nor silent, that's cheating. I have tried a yonah T2400 (1.83) on this board before, and temps were A LOT lower than those of the Merom T7200: in idle, cpu was always under 30 C with stock cooler and qfan silent mode. in full load it never came above 35. that's at least a 10° difference with the Merom. off course, it didn't run quite as fast, but for htpc is that not really an issue, while temps en noise are very important. i'm thinking of buying zalmans HD160 case, plug in a N4L and a yonah, and have only one Noctua 120 mm fan running at 5 db (and maybe a 120 mm fan in the psu, not sure about completely passive psu)

I'm a bit disappointed, but still i think it's a great product. but not worth te money if you want better cooling on the N4L-VM DH, then i would recommend my first solution:

Buy Zalmans ZM-FB123. it's as simple as the name itself: it's the 80 mm zalman fan on a bracket. this bracket is easily attached on the pci slots of your case. and with some minor altering of the FB123, it can hang right above your (stock) heatsink. just remove the little fan, and attach the zalman fan bracket to your case, and the connector to your mobo (or fancontroller).

Benefits:
- the 80 mm fan hangs above your cpu heatsink, AND at the same time above the chipset heatsink AND above your ram. so it cools everything at the same time, with less noise than the stock cooler. even with a high end graphics card and no case fans, at full load it keeps my cpu under 45 C and the mainboard at a constant 25 C. at idle the cpu stays under 35 C, and the mainboard is always 25 C, sometimes 24 C. this is all in silent mode, with fan at 500 - 800. with qfan disabled and the zalman adapter, it's even cooler, but at 1000-1200 rpm. No case fans present!
- you can install any fan you wish on the bracket! i'm trying it with some 120 mm fans soon, results will most likely improve since then almost all of the mainboard is covered.
- this solution is a lot cheaper than the noctua NC-U6: i only payed 8 € for the zm-fb123, and 20,75 for the NC-U6.
- installation is a lot easier: you don't even have to remove the stock heatsink. just screw off the fan, and on goes the zm-fb123. (But it's better for your cpu if you do the screwing with the heatsink removed)
- you can't screw the retainer clip to the NC-U6 (believe me, i've tried), so the stock cooler will always be firmer in place than the noctua. when i bump into the noctua cooler (which already happened twice), it turns slightly. and i'm quite sure i've attached it as firmly as possible.

i hope this helps, and please try ZM-FB123 (with some very silent fan of your choice)


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 Post subject: Thanks for all the info
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:30 am 
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Thanks for the heads-up. I've already ordered the Noctua and I think I'll wait and have a play with it. In the Fusion case it will be right next to a pair of 120s to give some airflow over the heatsink, and if it doesn't do the job I'm sure I can find a home for it somewhere else.

The P-180 (revised model with the cable ties and fan switches on the back 8) ) arrived on Friday so I spent the weekend re-building my PCs, my gaming rig is a lot quieter now, but my CPU temps seem high (50 deg. idle with CoreTemp, 43 deg with Asus Probe). I'm not sure the Ninja is seating properly on top of the CPU :(


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 Post subject: s-ata issue
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:31 am 
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i just hope it helps people who think: hmm, if i take a mobile cpu, i can defenitely cool it quietly and passively, and end up with a mobo WITHOUT ANY HOLES around the socket.

Delta_4, you're lucky if your fans are blowing through the noctua, that will certainly keep it well below the temps of the stock cooler. you wouldn't need to attach another fan to the heatsink. with the zm-fb123, i could keep it just as cool as with the stock cooler attached. and the fb123 hangs above the noctua, so the air just hits it on top, instead of going through the fins. so if your casefans blow through it, that's more than enough.
unfortenately, even if i would install an intake fan, it would never be anywhere near a good location. if you find a good way to attach the noctua, hope you post it. mine is currently only beying pressed down by the original bracket, and it's not as firm as i'd like it to be. no problem if it just sits there, but if you have to move and open up your case a lot, it's nicer when the heatsink sits firmly.

the only thing that really bugs me about this mainboard, and would keep me from buying a second one, is the SATA setup: WTF were they on at asus when they thought this one up: you get 2 s-ata controllers onboard Plus One! there is a third s-ata controller on the mainboard. it's a Jmicron controller, and that is really the lousiest s-ata controller out there.
BUT the two (blue) controllers on the mainboard are S-ATAI (150), and the one (red) Jmicron controller is S-ATAII (300). this is also a raid controller, but with what i'm experiencing with it so far, it would be madness to use it for raid.
Since i want a fast system, i try to keep everything at the best speeds. the mainboard is max. 667, so i got 667 memory. the specs say S-ATAII (300) , so i get a S-ATAII hard disk (sounds fair so far, right?)

not with asus: the only controller with s-ata2 is the jmicron, and those losers simply do not make linux drivers. so if i want to run linux, i have to change my hdd to one of the s-ata1 ports. since my regular startup config is 1. linux 2. win, i have to make sure i'm there to select windows when i want to run a game in xp with hdd at full speed. otherwise it won't boot in the jmicron AND i have to change cables again when i want to run linux.

possible solutions:
- get a pci S-ATAII controller. not really an option, since the mainboard only has 2 slots available.
- be happy with 150, knowing that a S-ATAI hard disk is already more expensive then it's S-ATAII brother
- buy an icy box, rip out the s-ataII- controller (it actually has 2 ports!!!NICE!!! i have no idea why, probably same reason as why s-ataII is now cheaper than s-ataI), and connect it to your mainboard through usb. in theory, it should be faster than the onboard s-ata of de mainboard. haven't tried it yet, because the icy box i opened is not mine, so i can't take it out. i would actually have to buy one and only use that tiny part of it. then you attach the controller somewhere to your case, and also the pci-slot usb ports that come with the mainboard. this way you don't have to route any cables through the back to get to usb.
-anyone any bright ideas?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:42 am 
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Location: Southern France
Hello !
I know I arrive a bit late, but here's a HR-05 modified to fit on s479 mobo like the Asus (with two holes). There's an other version with classic retention bracket.

http://www.ichbinleise.de/CPU-Kuehler/i ... :2920.html


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 Post subject: Finally!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:42 am 
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The Noctua arrived this morning!! Huzzah! Now I just have to spend all day at work looking at it on my desk wishing I was at home buggering about with my own PCs rather than at work buggering about with theirs!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:06 am 
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Benito, I think you have expectations of the board that it just wasn't designed to meet.

It was designed to be the centre of a low-power HTPC/light use PC, not as a high powered gaming rig/Linux workstation. I think the J-Micron is there mainly to give the e-sata connector on the back. I would also guess that the native SATA 150 support is a limitation of the Intel mobile chipset rather than a decision by ASUS as the Abit and Gigabyte boards are also just SATA-150.

For me the clinching feature of this board was the onboard SPDIF out, which I couldn't find on any other socket 479 board (without resorting to an optional header bracket, which I didn't want). However for different requirements there are probably better all-round boards (although only a handful of manufacturers make them.)

Sata-300 drives will work on a 150 controller, so just buy whatever drives you like, stick them on the Intel controller and don't worry about the theoretical loss of performance. If you're doing something so disk intensive that you can genuinely notice (and care about) the difference between a 150 controller and a 300 controller then maybe a machine based on this chipset isn't your best solution.


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 Post subject: Success!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:41 pm 
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I was about to post that the Noctua experiment was a failure, having tried to fit it using the retention bracket it came with I got no joy, the core temps idled in the low 30s and gave me a heart attack when they jumped to over 90 with TAT full load. The heatsink just wasn't fitting closely enough

However, I just had a flash of the blindingly obvious and took the retention bracket off the stock cooler and simply placed it over the Noctua. It probably isn't the most secure way of doing it, but my HTPC lives on a TV shelf and now I've finished buggering about with it won't be moved again.

Both cores are now at 55 under full load and I'll keep an eye on them for a while and see how they go. I have both the 120s in the Fusion running on low to pull air through the Noctua.

However, the house is quite cool at the moment, with a wicked cold draught coming from the kitchen, so whether I'm still quite so pleased with this setup in the summer will have to wait. I'll keep the stock cooler somewhere safe until then!

I just stopped TAT from loading the processor after about 15 minutes of both cores loaded. The temps dropped quickly and within a minute were down to 32 and after 3 minutes (ish) were right down to 23 (bear in mind the PC is just above the floor in a cool room with a cold draught!)

Latest update : I just enabled all the CPU power saving etc.

My CPU has now clocked down to 1GHz and my core temps are.. 17 and 16! just goes to show how cold and draughty it is in my house!


Last edited by Delta_42 on Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:12 pm 
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Where did you get the P182 from? Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:58 pm 
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amjedm wrote:
Where did you get the P182 from? Thanks.


I got it from Scan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:39 am 
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Delta_42 wrote:
amjedm wrote:
Where did you get the P182 from? Thanks.


I got it from Scan


I've posted a question on the Scan sub forum in Hexus :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:12 am 
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Delta_42 wrote:
amjedm wrote:
Where did you get the P182 from? Thanks.


I got it from Scan


Big favour please - can I have the SCIL number from the P182 box?

This is from the label Scan stick on the box. They need to know this so they can find out which supplier has new stock and amend product description on their website.

Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:22 am 
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Big favour please - can I have the SCIL number from the P182 box?

This is from the label Scan stick on the box. They need to know this so they can find out which supplier has new stock and amend product description on their website.

Thanks.[/quote]

No problem. I'll have a look when I get home


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