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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2003 8:34 am 
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Location: Fairfax, Virginia, USA
silenx wrote:
Do not confuse the SilenX branded products on our site with those on Ahanix, ColorCase or ExoticPC. We are in no way affiliated with ExoticPC and our products are different from theirs. We no longer use the Jamicon fans, model JF0825B1E, which is rated 15.9 dBA @ 1m and 19.1 CFM, in our power supplies. We've replaced the fans with hypro bearing fans from Jaro Components, rated 14.0 dBA @ 1m and 20.5 CFM, tweaked the voltage regulator, included ISODAMP fan mounts among various other enhancements to differentiate our product line from ExoticPC or ColorCase, both of which are run by Ahanix. I would just like to make that clear, my apologies for ExoticPC's behavior in confusing the general public.


Thanks for clearing that mud, silenx! I've been confused about this whole deal for a while now. And you definitely got that last part right. The folks at ExoticPC jump into this board now and then and just make my head spin with their insistence that everything fine, everything's the same, ours is the real silenx, ignore the man behind the curtain! Then there is the weird corporate relationship going on between Ahanix, ExoticPc, ColorCase, Kaimei (and Jamicon?).

So how come all of you are able to call your product Silenx?! Nobody's bothered to copyright the Silenx brandname? But even then, isn't there some law about similar branding from multiple producers?

BTW, I'm also interested in getting that Jaro fan retail. Will that every be possible? Thanks!

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2003 9:57 am 
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Posts: 39
Location: Los Angeles, CA
al bundy wrote:
When you were still with ExoticPC you were marketing the 400W 14dbA product as having a max noise spec (under full sustained load) of 14dbA. Does this newer revised version of this product maintain this precise noise spec as well? If so, was the fan changed-out due to supplier considerations only, or are there substantial differences between these fans that you could directly advise us about? Also, will you be selling these Jaro Components fans separately on your site?


Realistically, the max noise can go up to 17 dBA under maximum load and high ambient case temperatures (ambient case temp of 50C) on the ExoticPC version but in typical computer use, as long as the computer was in a well ventilated environment (ambient room temp of 25C), 14 dBA was the maximum value we got at 1m. The 14 dBA number was more or less an arbitrary number on the ExoticPC product, but we're now able to achieve similar or lower noise levels while improving the cooling aspect of the PSU in addition to providing less vibrational noise from the fan itself.

The fans were changed due to both supplier and performance differences between the two. For one, Ahanix forced Jamicon to cut the supply of the fans to us. Second, we did find this fan to perform better than the Jamicon fans. Two of the most obvious performance advantages we noticed was higher air flow and noticeable reduction in bearing vibrations. The hypro bearing is a similar concept of Panaflo's hydro bearings and basically allows for less friction between the fan shaft and the bearing itself with a pocket of lubricant. When combined with the fan isolation mounts, the only noise you do hear from the unit is air turbulence. It turns out you can decrease the noise from the turbulence significantly by removing the cover, but that doesn't necessitate to better cooling as it wouldn't direct the air optimally through the appropriate vent holes on the PSU casing. Regardless, we've done extensive testing with the new fan with FSP Group to make sure it does provide adequate airflow to the unit.

As for the sale of the fans by individually, they will be available shortly but initially with thermistors only. Please email us at [email protected] to inquire about orders if you're interested at this time.

al bundy wrote:
Lastly, you said above that the new Jaro Components fan carries specs of 14.0 dBA and 20.5 CFM. When I look at the Jaro Components page at http://www.jaro1.com/indextherm.htm I find one similar fan item (code is ADO812DX-A70GL, see 9 lines up from bottom of p.5 of that document). However, its reported noise spec is 15.0, and not 14.0. Can you please clarify this discrepancy for us - was this a typo in your message above, or am I just possibly overlooking the correct fan item on that page?


It's actually a typo on their specifications. The fan model is actually identical to one offered by Adda. You can check at http://www.addausa.com/specifications/70-80.pdf Jaro and Adda are both obtaining these fans from the same fan manufacturer in Taiwan. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to email us!

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2003 10:15 am 
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jamoore9 wrote:
Thanks for clearing that mud, silenx! I've been confused about this whole deal for a while now. And you definitely got that last part right. The folks at ExoticPC jump into this board now and then and just make my head spin with their insistence that everything fine, everything's the same, ours is the real silenx, ignore the man behind the curtain! Then there is the weird corporate relationship going on between Ahanix, ExoticPc, ColorCase, Kaimei (and Jamicon?).

So how come all of you are able to call your product Silenx?! Nobody's bothered to copyright the Silenx brandname? But even then, isn't there some law about similar branding from multiple producers?

BTW, I'm also interested in getting that Jaro fan retail. Will that every be possible? Thanks!


-- EDITED -- The fans will be available for retail soon, if you are interested, feel free to drop us an email, [email protected]. I appreciate everyone's patience. If you need help with anything on how to silence your PC, our staff with years of experience will be available at all times to quickly respond.

-- In the interest of peace, NO asides and cheap shots against competitors will be tolerated. Any further contentiousness by either party to the other in this fracus will be banned from the SPCR forums. There will be no further warning. --

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 12:33 pm 
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digitalix wrote:
Good stuff, the bearing noise is non-existant with the new fans plus mounts whereas it was audible on the older exoticpc power supplies

Digitalix, you seem to have experience with the new PSU model by silenx.com. Care to enlighten the rest of us on the difference (if any) between the old Jamicon fan and the new Jaro unit?


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 1:18 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Radeonman: replied to your inquiry by email, let me know if you haven't received it.

Please contact us for pricing on the fans, that information is confidential and not available for release to the general public as of yet.

I don't forsee any problems running our fan on your heatsink, our fans have a thermistor that you can use to probe the temperature of the hardware you would like to cool, basically it allows for adequate cooling and not having to worry about hardware failure due to extreme temperatures.

The fans come with 3 pin headers plus a 3->4 pin molex connector standard, along with 4 fan screws and 4 silicon fan isolation mounts.

As for noise due to object placement, this is really dependent on the situation. Noise can get directed due to objects placed in front of it and might "sound" louder as it is focused towards a given direction, this phenomena does occur to all fans out there. Generally, the quieter the fan is to begin with, the less effects you will have from this phenomena.

Feel free to contact us if you have any other questions or inquiries!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 4:26 am 
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Posts: 40
This is almost too good to be true!. A company actually posting relevant information about their products in an independent forum!. Havent seen this ever. BIG thumbs up!.

this must mean that SPCR really is the forum to find info about silent pc's. I'm buying my products from www.gtek.net (swedish reseller) and they refer to tests made here on SPCR. Nice to know that I'm in the right spot.

/Per


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 11:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 2:59 pm
Posts: 247
A general note:

o Clicking etc noise from fans is mostly fan-start circuitry
---- some fans may not start if they have voltage-detect circuit
---- Panaflo are one of these, but it's a very low voltage

o PAPST 80mm 12dB(A) are nothing like 12dB(A)
---- at least when fitted :-)
---- fitted they are lower airflow & similar noise to L1A
-------- hence I moved to L1A
---- where the PAPST 80mm is poor is vibration
-------- less important with actually engineered cases now
-------- however substrate vibration IS the noise you hear
-------- Panaflo 80mm L1A vibrate very little

Conversely 92mm & 120mm L1A are unremarkable re noise/vibration
and the M1A 120mm is not an appealing fan for the very high prices.
M1A does have 38mm depth which most generally available PAPSTs lack.

o Fan blade design can assist low noise
---- PAPST have a quite poor 80mm fan blade design
---- blade tip thickness a bit chunky for super low noise
-------- hence they use very low rpm, but that kills cfm & static pressure
---- Panaflo & NMB have good 80mm fan blade designs
-------- they are low noise AND maintain some static pressure
-------- L1A panaflo outperform PAPST 12 & 21dB(A) 80mm 84xx fans
with respect to noise & airflow on some custom PSUs I did, surprisingly
-------- conversely Panaflo bearing whilst rugged, *blades* are not

Panaflo also provide perpendicular airflow from the fan, whereas
many others provide tangential. This can assist point cooling. NMB
also use this type of blade arrangement on some of their 80mm fans.
I have some 14dB(A) 18cfm 3-wire NMB being processed, in stock,
which are essentially "quiet L1A" but low airflow & 3-wire tacho output.
Personally I prefer 25cfm over going sub ~21dB(A), others vary.

Re PSU fans - a tip:
o Colleague reminded me of externally mounting PSU fans
o External mounting can save you about 4-5dB(A) on noise levels
---- however /please/ fit a grill because some fan blades are SHARP
o External mounting can also improve your cooling & net cfm
---- less obstructed airflow in front of the fan intake
---- better cooling from low-static pressure axial fan in tight enclosure

For higher airflow fans, this will *not* work.
With higher airflow you get excitation of the PSU casing, you have a fan
inline with an oblong container offering a static intake load & external
exhaust which creates a resonance due to case width:length ratios.
To experience this pick up any PSU which is ~70mm wide & 200mm long
with a 60mm fan even PAPST 612L at the end of it and buy earplugs.

It can also be used on critical servers to serialise 2 fans back-to-back
to provide redundancy, however note this can create some peculiar
"hunting" noises as the two fans rpm vary around one another. The
beat frequency varies continually around 0.2-2Hz and is quite loud.

Mounting of fans gets critical when you aim to achieve <25dB(A) *fitted*.
Sticking a 12-14-21dB(A) fan in a case with tight bolts all sound the same;
don't overtighten, consider nylon nuts/bolts, consider acoustic mounts.

After than, fan noise is the noise you hear:
o You can soundproof the inside of a case all you want
o Sound from case fans has no soundproofing between it & your ears :-)

So you either inset fans in a duct which is itself soundproofed, turn
sound thro 180-degrees to knock 6dB(A) off it (and cfm similarly),
or use quieter fans. Soundproofing is a combination of many factors,
it is a Science, just takes effort on many fronts to achieve it.

Also remember, sometimes 2 very quiet fans can make up for the
airflow of 1 normal fan - so you can have hot CPUs in quiet cases.
Simple ducting of air by cardboard gets the cfm to where it is needed.
You can freeze cardboard shape/bolt-holes with diluted epoxy.

Never use fan-screws to mount fans, they are a blind-fastener designed
for high speed production facilities and not low fitted-to-case noise levels.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan
Panaflo 80mm L1A at 4.99ukp citing this forum
NMB 15dB(A) 18cfm 3-wire tacho available direct


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 12:22 pm
Posts: 208
Location: The Netherlands
Dorothy, a few remarks:

jafb2000 wrote:
o External mounting can save you about 4-5dB(A) on noise levels
---- however /please/ fit a grill because some fan blades are SHARP


1. The blowing side of a fan is quite protected by the "motor-mounting-spokes"
2. The blades are angled in such a way that anything approaching a rotating fan from the "blow-side" is pushed away. You touch the rear-edge of the blade.
It's the "sucking-side" that can cause harm.
In most situations you don't need a grill on the "blow-side"

jafb2000 wrote:
It can also be used on critical servers to serialise 2 fans back-to-back
to provide redundancy, however note this can create some peculiar
"hunting" noises as the two fans rpm vary around one another. The
beat frequency varies continually around 0.2-2Hz and is quite loud.


A very good point, but I assume you meant "front to back" :lol:

jafb2000 wrote:
You can freeze cardboard shape/bolt-holes with diluted epoxy.

Most epoxies available to members of this forum are the kind that comes in two tubes, intended to be used as glue. These epoxies are free of solvents, and adding a solvent might make it possible for the "hardening-component" to migrate into the skin with the solvent. This "hardening-component" is known to harmful to your health. Make sure to wear gloves resistant to solvent used, or use the epoxy without a solvent.

Regards, Han.

_________________
MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R
AMD64 3000+ with ducted Zalman 7000A CU, 2 Panaflo L1A fans in tandem @ 6 volts
NVidia 5200
AOpen 350 Watts PSU (AO350-12APFN) modded with 'Nexus real silent' 120mm fan (1000 RPM max)
1 Samsung 1614N + 2x Samsung 1614C
1 'Nexus real silent' 120mm casefan (front) @ 6 volts


Last edited by SpyderCat on Tue May 06, 2003 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 2:59 pm
Posts: 247
Has,

o Yes the spokes do act as a grill on a fan exhaust side
o However accessing a PC from the front, fumbling with
fingers into a nice cubby hole of a fan housing can get painful :-)
o At least where a bare fan is fitted to the outside of a case

Children do like to poke fingers into pretty flickering blades, and
they still represent a moving edge against a stationary fan spoke.
Granted, 80mm fans are not 254mm 115/230vac 550cfm Caravel's.

Re serial fans back-to-back, yes serial - exhaust-fan-A to intake-fan-B.

Tubes/Bottles of epoxy have warnings on them for good reason:
o You may not be allergic to them with minor skin contact
---- however epoxy resins, eg, West System aren't friendly
o However allergy is accumulative by exposure
---- and you may suddenly find a quite nasty skin/respiratory reaction

A simpler method is to take laminated cardboard used for the back
of comb/wire-bound documents or thin foamex foamed PVC sheet.

Surprised no-one's got a gallery started of their fan/CPU ducts :-)
Bunch of wussies, calling themselves PC silentartists *smile*


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 12:22 pm
Posts: 208
Location: The Netherlands
jafb2000 wrote:
Tubes/Bottles of epoxy have warnings on them for good reason:
o You may not be allergic to them with minor skin contact
---- however epoxy resins, eg, West System aren't friendly
o However allergy is accumulative by exposure
---- and you may suddenly find a quite nasty skin/respiratory reaction

A simpler method is to take laminated cardboard used for the back
of comb/wire-bound documents or thin foamex foamed PVC sheet.

Surprised no-one's got a gallery started of their fan/CPU ducts :-)
Bunch of wussies, calling themselves PC silentartists *smile*


Hey,

I even provided a cutting patern for a cardboard duct :lol:
Image

Okay, so you know WEST-epoxy ! (Is used mainly in boatbuilding, but computers can benefit too!)
Do you own a wooden boat perhaps?
WEST-epoxy is thin enough, you don't need to dillute it.
I swear by PlastaZote (tm) foam, and my previous duct is shown here
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=3584

The advantage of PlastaZote is that its light, firm, and doesn't forward vibrations.

Regards, Han

_________________
MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R
AMD64 3000+ with ducted Zalman 7000A CU, 2 Panaflo L1A fans in tandem @ 6 volts
NVidia 5200
AOpen 350 Watts PSU (AO350-12APFN) modded with 'Nexus real silent' 120mm fan (1000 RPM max)
1 Samsung 1614N + 2x Samsung 1614C
1 'Nexus real silent' 120mm casefan (front) @ 6 volts


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 8:23 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:44 am
Posts: 11
Has anyone received their Silenx fan yet?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 03, 2003 8:16 pm
Posts: 97
I've just received 8 of them, immediately replace my 2 intakes with 2 of the silenx fans, using the blue silicon fan isolator mounts that Peter Kim of Silenx also provides with orders of the fans.

As soon as I started up my PC, with case cover off, I noticed the difference straightaway! I think partly due to the low rpm of the fans (versus the 2500rpm of my previous fans), and partly due to the blue silicon mounts rather than the hard black plastic mounts I was using before, the low noise but high pitched irritating whine of the intake fans is gone.

I was so happy I replaced a 3rd intake side fan, and one of the outtakes (I have 2 outtakes, but usually only one is running, although once I also replace my 470W verudium PSU with the 400W 14dBA silenx PSU I'll replace the 2nd outtake too), in the process breaking one of the blue silicon mounts. Sigh.

My case temps after half an hour were at 40'C (typically 43-44'C), and in case anybody is wondering why, my ambient temp is typically in the high 20's to low 30's as I'm in sunny/humid/drenchingly hot singapore (!), plus I run an old palamino XP1800+ (hot hot hot). Oh and probably because I have 3x 80GB 7200rpm HDDs behind the inttakes too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:53 am
Posts: 2
have you considered testing using different fan speed controller techs? fan speed controllers like vantecs use a different design unlike the ordinary resistors, they rapidly switch on and off to vary the speed. i've heard this causes noise in panaflos.


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 Post subject: I'm making a 80mm fan comparison with identical flow rates
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:41 am
Posts: 15
Location: Finland
Hello!

What a coincidence that here is a topic of this....because next week I'm making a test of 30 80mm fans operating at the same airflows :)

I have contacted Dorothy and other admins with email for this matter and you hear more about me soon :)


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