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 Post subject: 8500DV and ZM-17: Help
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 9:07 am
Posts: 16
I was wondering if any has had following problem or any advice?

I have experienced a problem with the ZM-17. I snapped off the original ATI 8500dv heatsink and fan, applied the adhesive (one on the core; other on the zm-17) and then when it had set, I reinserted it back into the pc.

Immediately, the Bios and POST screens were corrupted with a small pattern (not unlike the melting screen in Matrix). Windows XP loaded properly to the desktop and the card seemed to function normally in windows, except for the video-playback in the TV-tuner, DVD and recorded programs, which all suffered from a similar video corruption. This has basically made the major functions of the Multimedia Center unusable.

There is a fan above the video-card and the case temp is 32C. The ZM-17 gets very warm but not too hot to touch.

Any help would be much appreciated, Joe.


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 Post subject: Re: 8500DV and ZM-17: Help
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 4:33 pm
Posts: 376
Location: Athlonville, My Computer
Flip wrote:
I was wondering if any has had following problem or any advice?

I have experienced a problem with the ZM-17. I snapped off the original ATI 8500dv heatsink and fan, applied the adhesive (one on the core; other on the zm-17) and then when it had set, I reinserted it back into the pc.

Immediately, the Bios and POST screens were corrupted with a small pattern (not unlike the melting screen in Matrix). Windows XP loaded properly to the desktop and the card seemed to function normally in windows, except for the video-playback in the TV-tuner, DVD and recorded programs, which all suffered from a similar video corruption. This has basically made the major functions of the Multimedia Center unusable.

There is a fan above the video-card and the case temp is 32C. The ZM-17 gets very warm but not too hot to touch.

Any help would be much appreciated, Joe.


In general that heatsink is not reccomended for use, too small, you had better hope you dont burn out your card using it. Either apply a fan or buy the ZM-80AHP (I reccomend this) which is what Zalman reccomends for that card.


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 Post subject: Re: 8500DV and ZM-17: Help
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 6:14 pm 
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Flip wrote:
There is a fan above the video-card and the case temp is 32C. The ZM-17 gets very warm but not too hot to touch.

Can you try pointing the fan closer or from a different direction?

It's gonna be hard to remove/reseat that HS isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: 8500DV and ZM-17: Help
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 6:50 pm 
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Location: Tennessee, USA
Flip wrote:
I snapped off the original ATI 8500dv heatsink and fan, applied the adhesive (one on the core; other on the zm-17) and then when it had set, I reinserted it back into the pc.

Joe, welcome to SPCR!

I'm no video card expert by any means.

Zalman recommends having the fan blow across the cooler from the side rather than from above. Try powergyoza's suggestion to move the fan around. Your issue, as Athlon Powers alluded to, may be that your card is undercooled. What type of fan are you using to actively cool it now? It seems unusual to me that some functions work fine, while other's fail. I wouldn't immediately point to temps being your problem since your trouble begins as soon as you POST the computer with the card and machine cold. The Zalman cooler is at least as big as the stock cooler you removed. Again, what fan?

Check, too, to make sure that the wings of the cooler are not making contact with something on the card and shorting out a part of the board.

Another gruesome possibility is that you did some damage to the card during your mod. What exactly do you mean by "snapped off"? *wince* How did you go about removing the original HSF and fan and clean off the core? And any chance you gave a little static charge to the card while working?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 8:29 am
Posts: 1076
Location: USA
my 8500 does not have any holes on it. So he must of poped it off with the epoxy. So aphonos your fears may not be so off. Other then what has already been mention maybe you moved a part. the little spools of copper wire ( the name escapes me now) can provide stablility which if damaged may let your card run but still make it crash under load.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 4:33 pm
Posts: 376
Location: Athlonville, My Computer
DryFire wrote:
my 8500 does not have any holes on it. So he must of poped it off with the epoxy. So aphonos your fears may not be so off. Other then what has already been mention maybe you moved a part. the little spools of copper wire ( the name escapes me now) can provide stablility which if damaged may let your card run but still make it crash under load.


One method of removing the heatsinks on Radeons is to heat it with a hairdryer untill you can cut it off with a wire. I personally have not done this as I just bought a passively-cooled Radeon 9000 off the bat. :)


Last edited by Athlon Powers on Wed May 28, 2003 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 8:29 am
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Location: USA
Heat with a hair dryer!!! that doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I like the put in the freezer method until it just chips off with veryy little force.


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 Post subject: It's not total failure either
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 9:07 am
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The card is a horizontal position with the HS facing upI've tried a number of different fan positions, the best (touch-testing only) seems to be having a fan directly overtop the heatsink.

The weird thing is that this happens at POST, then the machine starts into XP normally, all other things run normally. Then there is the same distortion in the ATI video functions... they run, but only with a corrupted image. I can't make the connection...

I think I might have to remove this and try something different. I am hesitant to try the hair dryer but does anyone know who I can get the ZM-17 off... I hope I didn't manage to do some kind of subtle but irrevesible damage in the earlier process...


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 Post subject: Re: It's not total failure either
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 8:41 pm 
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Location: Tennessee, USA
Flip wrote:
The card is a horizontal position with the HS facing upI've tried a number of different fan positions, the best (touch-testing only) seems to be having a fan directly overtop the heatsink.

The weird thing is that this happens at POST, then the machine starts into XP normally, all other things run normally. Then there is the same distortion in the ATI video functions... they run, but only with a corrupted image. I can't make the connection...

I think I might have to remove this and try something different. I am hesitant to try the hair dryer but does anyone know who I can get the ZM-17 off... I hope I didn't manage to do some kind of subtle but irrevesible damage in the earlier process...


Now you've stumped me. :? How did you get the HS facing up on an AGP card installed in a PC? Pics would be a big help.

Zalman's product description says, "The ZM17-CU attached with the adhesive cannot be removed afterwards." Which I take to mean it will be pretty darn hard, but not impossible to get off.

Have you tried using a thermometer with a probe (like a Radio Shack indoor/outdoor model) to test the temp of the HS to see if you are having a heating problem? If your temps are not your issue, then there is really no point in tugging the Zalman off a defunct card.

My guess is you cooked something on your card when you were modding. :cry:


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 Post subject: case
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 8:54 pm 
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Posts: 16
It's in a strange little mAtx aluminim case sold by Chilli. I have no pictures but the motherboard going up the side and then the AGP card is slotted horizontally facing up. Both the PSU and CPU beloware at the bottom of the case.


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 Post subject: Re: 8500DV and ZM-17: Help
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 5:07 pm
Posts: 809
Location: London, UK
Flip wrote:
except for the video-playback in the TV-tuner, DVD and recorded programs, which all suffered from a similar video corruption. This has basically made the major functions of the Multimedia Center unusable.


I take it you have not been to the Zalman web board, they advise you that the VGA heatsink interferes with the Radeon 8500DV AIW.

QUOTE FROM ZALMAN
"Thank you for the interest in ZALMAN's product.

Neither of our VGA chip cooling products are suitable for ATI All In Wonder series because there are interferences with TV-Tuner pack, heatsink's width and several electronic components, especially capacitors. ZM80A-HP is fully compatible with All In Wonder Radeon 9700 Pro exceptionally.

Fundamentally, ZM80(A)-HP which is suitable to ATI Radeon 8500 except "All In Wonder versions" can be installed on a VGA card having 2 holes for cooler mounting on its PCB.

Regards.
Jinkook Kim/ZALMAN"

I was also interested in the product before so I read up on it quite a while back. Just remove the whiney 40mm fan and place a L1a at 5v parrallel to it or on top with a Zalman bracket and it should be ok. I have one mounted parallel to it and it has been fine. :D If you have removed the small HS make sure you put it back on. :wink:

I doubt you have cooked it, I have ran the card fanless for a number of weeks, although it does get pretty hot.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:45 am
Posts: 83
Location: Sheffield, UK
Sorry to dig up this old thread but I'm in the same situation with a couple of ATI 8500DV AIW cards. One of which the fan has broken so I have to replace it with something.

I've finally got hold of a Zalman ZM17-Cu after a dodgy eBayer who never dispatched and a slow delivery from another seller that never responded to emails. Seems like I was destined never to own this cooler! After searching for some tips on how to remove the original heat sink and fan I come across this thread and realise why the higher powers that be were trying everything to stop me getting hold of one of these!

My question is do you think that if I bend the fins as far away from the graphics card as possible the TV tuner and other bits and bobs will be OK? I have a Zalman NB32J also looking for a home (didn't fit my GA-8I875) but I'd rather use something a bit more substantial, especially considering the hassle over getting it!

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Will


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:48 pm
Posts: 8
I have the ZM17-CU on an ATI AIW 8500 (not the DV version), and it's been running fine for a year, and the 8500 runs hotter than the 8500DV. I spread out the fins on the cooler so that it looks more like a zalman flower heatsink, and i have a 80mm fan over it running at 5-7v. I probably would not want to run it fanless, though i've never tried. I don't think I had a problem much with interference with parts on the board (tv tuner, capacitors, etc.). just bend up the fins a little if there is something in the way. I removed the ati glued on heatsink using the freezer method. A bit nerve racking, but it worked well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:29 am 
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Posts: 173
Location: Texas
Hmmm.... I am running a 8500DV AIW with a ZM17 with zero problems. All TV functions work fine. I removed the old HS using the freezer method. I had to work a bit to scrape off the old glue (using lighter fluid (not for charcoal!) and a credit card to scrape with). I do not use a dedicated fan. The ZM17 is definitely warm but I can touch it without bodily harm. Case temp is usually about 37C (room temp is 78-80F). The ZM17 only gets air through the hard drives from the front intake fan (slow). I don't see how the ZM17 can affect the tuner unless the copper heat sink is causing an undesired electrical circuit of some sort. At boot - if the system is "cold" the card can't be hot yet so the POST problem shouldn't be temperature related. I suspect it is an electrical problem due to damage to the card, poor insertion in the AGP slot, or something else (?).

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