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 Post subject: Intel Q9550 c1+Xigmatek 1283+P182 = High Temperature! HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:26 am 
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Hello!

I was reading about CPU temperatures and I read that a Q9550C1 with Xigmatek 1283 cooler should be around 30s to 40s when cpu is idle, however I am getting:

54-43-50-49 - Minimum reported by Real Temp 3.00
72-63-69-66 - Maximum reported by Real Temp 3.00

I got the maximum temperature after running Prime95 for 1 hour, I stopped because I was afraid that the CPU would overheat. Also its good to notice that the front door (of the p182) was closed.

The outside temperature should be around 25-27C...

I applied only one line of OCZ Freeze Thermal compound directly at the CPU, and attached the 1283 cooler with the crossbow kit.

Is it normal to have those temps? How can I get lower temperature? Would be nice to see 30s to 40s!

Please help??

Here is a description of my system:

- Evga Nf790i Ultra
- Intel Q9550 C1 (NON OVERCLOCKED)
- Xigmatek 1283 with original fan
- ATI Radeon 3870 (will be GTX260 ot 285 soon)
- 8 GB ram - Corsair 1600 Mhz
- Antec P182
- Two Nexus Fan in the upper chamber, close to the CPU
- One tri-cool fan (intake, set at slow)
- One tri-cool fan in the lower hdd/power supply chamber.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:40 pm 
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A few things you could do is this:

Feel the heat pipes if they are hot you have alright contact, if they are cool then you aren't getting good contact.

Then feel the fins are they hot or cool. If they're hot you aren't getting the air off the heat sink and outta the case?

If you are in fact have contact issues you could re-apply thermal paste. Apply it mount the sink, then take it off and check the application and see if how it is filling in the sides of the heat pipes.

With the crossbow you shouldn't have this issue but also check how tightly the sink is clamped on there.

Another thing you could check is overall case temperature, I've had a CPU run 20°C hotter than usually because I went and soundproofed like mad and just ended up insulating my case, and robbing all airflow.

These are just my thoughts someone else may see things I don't.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:03 pm 
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Callmeroth,

thank you for your help, however I would like to ask...

Is it normal to have this temperatures?? Is it considered normal or high? Is it possible to get lower if I do the things you recomended?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:13 pm 
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looking at the temp. spread, i'd say - re-apply the compound.

for quads you need two lines of thermal compound, not one in the middle. or you can use the 5 dots method.

either way, before fastening the sink, grind it a bit to let the compound spread and thin out.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:16 pm 
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mcoleg wrote:
looking at the temp. spread, i'd say - re-apply the compound.
<snip>
either way, before fastening the sink, grind it a bit to let the compound spread and thin out.

I agree. Sounds like poor contact. Just to elaborate on what mcoleg said, "grind" (to me) means to add some extra pressure to the heatsink when you place it on the CPU. You also may also try wiggling the heatsink (while keeping pressure) to ensure the thermal paste spreads. (no more than 20 deg rotation)

Your temps do seem high. I'd expect a stock 45nm Quad to idle in the 40's and load around 60C. But I'm nearly certain your problem is from poor heatsink contact.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:28 pm 
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I agree with both angelkiller and mcoleg. Bad contact is basically what I was getting at with my first post.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:03 pm 
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I will do that... But I think i might buy a better thermal paste...

FIY.. I was surfing the net.. and I found something about undervolting the CPU... It was very interesting..

Right now... As I type.. I am running at 1,025v no errors so far

idle temperature dropped to:

51-38-45-44

Also tried 1,013v but vista crashed!

I included the printscreen, please let me know if the picture is too big, I can try to make it small, but since its a fresh vista installation I do not have all the software installed, yet...


Large image link

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:53 pm 
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That's hot. My Q9550 with S1283 idles at 32/32/30/30, and when running at 100% rarely goes over 40 per core.

Dumb question - but did you remove the plastic film from the bottom of the heatsink?

When I applied thermal paste to mine, I applied it to the heatsink, and spread it out by finger (wrapped in some plastic to stop any skin oils). I made sure I filled the crevices between the heatpipes and the base of the heatsink with thermal paste. Am VERY happy with my temperatures using this approach.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:05 pm 
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Hello Bgiddins,

Yes I removed it! See? I dunno why my temperatures are so high!!

I applied one line of OCZ Freeze on the CPU and attached the heatsink, I am seriously thinking about buying AS5 and re-seating the cooler so check if I can get lower temperatures.

Thank you!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:00 pm 
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You might find this link interesting.

Their results match mcoleg's suggestion below for HDT coolers like your Xigmatek.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:45 am 
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I followed the instructions on that link when I installed mine - and that was using the stock paste. Give it a try!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:06 am 
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Undervolting will reduce heat but your also reducing the speed of the processor.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:11 am 
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TJmax of the Q9550C1 is 95ºC or thereabouts so your temps are technically safe, but under load your chip is running very close to the "worst case" thermal specification of the chip at stock (71.4ºC). Also, Intel's stock cooling specification states an ambient temperature of 35ºC (iirc) so whilst your temps could easily happen in a bad/cluttered case with a bog-standard cooler on a really hot day, your brand new P182+Xigmatek should be able to do better than that. At the very least they should keep your load temps some distance from Intel's "worst case" thermal spec. So, despite what Eyedolon said in your other thread (sorry, no offence Eyedolon) I'd definitely take a look at your cooling. I wouldn't advise undervolting as a solution when the problem seems to be with your cooling, and I'd agree with others and say perhaps reseat your heatsink.

Beware it's very easy to get obsessed with temperatures. Once you get sensible figures, get on with more important stuff and don't let the temperature bug bite :).

EDIT: Forgot to say - having P182's door closed should make no difference either way.


Last edited by blackworx on Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:48 am 
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Did you run the calibration routine for Real Temp?

Changing your brand of thermal paste is not worth the effort.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:55 am 
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CallmeRoth wrote:
Undervolting will reduce heat but your also reducing the speed of the processor.

What? :? How does reducing the voltage reduce the speed of the processor?

@ Kate. Please resize that picture. (it's huge!) Upload it to some image hosting site that resizes the pic. And I wouldn't go as far as to change your thermal paste just yet. Changing thermal paste might lower your temps because the difference between the best and worst pastes is relatively small. The OCZ Freeze is actually good stuff.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:30 am 
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Hello,

If you reapply the thermal paste, here's how to do it the best way:

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=170&Itemid=1&limit=1&limitstart=5

Kate, are you using a bolt-through kit? If not, that would help your temps a lot!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:15 am 
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when making a screenshot like this, put a neutral colour on your bg instead of an image, and save to .png if you want to go quick and dirty, or gif.

http://www.imageoptimizer.net/

you can also crop:
http://www.picturemosaics.com/tools/crop/

and.or resize:
http://www.picresize.com/

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:34 pm 
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WOW!~So many replies! cool

I am sorry if my big printscreen annoyed anyone, as it was "oversized", the reason is I use 2 22" monitors, and the printscreen became huge, since this is a new fresh vista installation I do not have all my software installed, and I hate using paint! LOL

Anyways, I am really sorry if I have annoyed anyone or have failed to follow forum rules.

Also I would like to thank the ADMIN for editing my post, and removing the picture but leaving a link to it!

THank you!


----


Hello JamieG,

Yes! the link is VERY interesting! thank you!

Hello bgiddins,

I will just waiting for my new thermal paste to arrive, the one I was using is over, it was an old one and my friend gave it to me, so it only have enough for 1 or 2 applications!

Hello CallmeRoth,

It shouldnt, I followed this link: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/s ... p?t=308869 and it says that we can keep the same CPU speed/performance and lower the CPU voltage to reduce heat, and it worked... I will keep the voltages as low as I can, even after I figure out whats wrong my CPU & Heatsink.

Hello Blackworx,

Thats exactly what I am afraid of, I need to find out whats going on with my computer, I do not like the high temperatures! Also I read in this forum that leaving the P182 door open helps with the temperatures, thats why I have mentioned!

Hello CA_Steve,

I didnt even know about the calibration Ill surely follow the link and do it!

Hello angelkiller,

I am really sorry for the big printscreen, this is a new vista instalation and I still do not have all my software installed, please im sorry if I have caused any problems.

Hello NeilBlanchard,

Thank you for the link, I will apply the thermal past as soon as I get it.

Hello Acook,

Ya sorry, as I said it is a new vista installation, so I still do not have all the software I am used to use installed, yet!

I am really sorry if I have caused problems with the forums and/or users. My intention was never to annoy anyone!

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Wear shirts and boots
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Lack of calibration is the cause of your odd temp readings.

Do that first.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:43 pm 
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I'm not just following this thread to stalk you, I have a Q8200 and the same Xigmatek HDT-S1283 with xbow ready here to be assemblied.

I've been a bit busy with customers' pc's, but hope to get building this weekend. I'll give results on my own temps here too.

Am impressed with the way the s1283 is packed btw, much nicer than the ninja.

as TIM I'll have the choice between AS5, Ceramique, AC MX-2, Xigmateks own, some Zalman stuff, and some generic stuff.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:24 pm 
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ACook,

nice! :) I am having big problems to discover why the CPU is running hot, however I need to wait, get my AS5 and re-test everything!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:28 pm 
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Also...

I have re-tested everything... For some reason I discovered that...

Changing the voltage at the NVIDIA Control Panel I can run stable at 1,038V however...

At the bios screen, I need to set the CPU Voltage to 1,05625 to get stable.

Not sure what is the difference but Ill email evga and ask!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:58 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Lack of calibration is the cause of your odd temp readings.

Do that first.


Hi CA_Steve, I do not know how to calibrate, for me the calibration instructions makes absolutelly no sense! It doesnt tell you how to calibrate, what to measure, and how to measure!

Look at this example:

"Open your computer case and compare your reported idle temperatures to your room temperature near your case or to your water temperature if you are water cooled. Based on the type of CPU cooling you are using, Core 2 based CPUs should be seeing reported temperatures similar to what rge saw during his testing. "


Again for me Makes no sense, idle temp reported by Real Temp is around 54oC, ambient temperature is around 25-27!


"If your reported temperature is too low then you will need to go into the RealTemp Settings window and use a positive calibration factor to increase your reported temperature. If your CPU is reading too high, you will need to use a negative calibration factor. "

What reported temperature?? The one reported by Real Temp? The one we just measure? or the ambient temperature?

Then "use a positive calibration factor" where?? And how?

Sorry this guide is impossible to follow! According to the guide, since ambient temperature is around 27C and I have a air cooler, it should be 27+7 = 34C and I get 54... What is that? It means that I have to adjust real temp to show a difference of -20??

Thats just crazy!

Lol, maybe I am a total retard but the guide makes no sense at all!!

Sorry for the rant, I know it is not your fault, its just hard to understand!

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Girls can wear jeans
And cut their hair short
Wear shirts and boots
cause its ok to be a boy
But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
cause you think that being a girl is degrading
But secretly youd love to know what its like
Wouldnt you
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Last edited by Kate on Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:03 pm 
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You know what is funny??

I was talking to a RL friend about this temperature setting things, and it was around 2:30am!

Then I told him I need to find a way to measure the temp of the air outside and the air inside the case

After explaining him what I needed, he decided to come to my place, he drove 30 kilometers just to come here and give me a solution...

We installed a Lian Li thermometer (gift from heavens!), model TR-3B, he told me it is supposed to control fans, but since I dont need the fan controlling feature, we just used the 3 temperature probes to measure the air temps... the sys-f show the air coming in, the sys-r the air coming out and the CPU the air inside the chassis...

The installation was fun, it was made in a way that there are no wires showing!


Image


The probes where installed near the intake fan.
Image

Inside the chassis.
Image

Near the top exaust fan.
Image


The reading I have is:

- 25C - air coming in
- 30C - air inside the Chassis, upper chamber
- 31C - air going out, upper exaust fan

At least now should be very easy to calibrate the Real Temp, as long as I understand what it says!

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Wear shirts and boots
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:44 pm 
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The way i could understand is...

Setting the bios to default values, I would get 51-45-43-47 from Real Temp idle...

Then the ambient temperature is 27+7 (because the guide says its a high end air cooler 1 fan), which would give me 34.. Then I subtracted all the temps given by Real Temp -34...

So basically I went to settings, and at the temp calibration I used -17 -11 -09 -13

It really makes no sense...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:35 am 
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Due to the inherent non-linearity, this is an iterative process, not just a-b=c.
First step - remove your case door.*

A. Set (45nm) CPU core in BIOS to run at 333MHz and x6 when idling

B. Set Vcore to 1.1V for idle measurement:
1. With your current settings, look at CPU-Z. Write down the Vcore (idle).
2. Reboot, and go into BIOS. Look at your Vcore setting. Write down the offset between this setting and the CPU-Z reading. If your Vcore is set to auto...change it to 1.15V and then boot PC. Read CPU-Z and then write down the offset.
3. Change Vcore in BIOS by this offset or something close until CPU-Z reads 1.1V or something slightly lower.

This sets the baseline for idle temp. Let it run for a couple of minutes.

C. Real temp idle calibration.
1. Use your temp probes to measure the ambient temperature inside the case and read the Real Temp core temp. If they are within, say 8C**, stop. If not, go to step 2.
2. Go to the settings screen in real temp and put in about a -5 degree offset.
3. Read real temp and case ambient temps again. If they are within 8C stop. If not, change the offset.
4. Rinse, repeat until all cores are within 8C. (My offsets ended up being -6C and -5C).

D. Go back into BIOS and configure your CPU for desired speed, voltage. Close your case door.

That should do it.

* you may have better circulation with the door closed, but this is the way the author set up his data gathering and offsets. So, it's best to calibrate the same way.
** better to have Real Temp overestimate your load temps than underestimate them...if you feel good about your setup, you can always reduce the Tcore-Tambient difference.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:52 am 
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Hello CA_Steve,

Thank you very much, I followed your instructions and ended up with the following offsets:

-6 +2 -4 -4

So.... After setting the desired voltage and closing the case... I got 40-38-38-37 C

I hope this is correct..

See, in less lines you described the calibration, a lot less confusing!

Thank you very much!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:28 pm 
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I had several comments, but I couldn't get it into one nice post: so this one has to do ;)

I had 4C temperature difference with my C2D (E6600). After I polished my heat spreader the difference was down to 1C difference :), It could be that your heat spreader isn't flat, which leads to bad contact between your heat spreader and your cpu cooler, which would explain the different temperature readings.
Also a lack of thermal paste, or a lot of dust on / in the thermal paste would explain such differences.

The difference between very good thermal paste and "not so good" thermal paste is only 5-8 degrees, so don't expect "miracles" from very expensive thermal paste ;).

Intel CPU's do have a real good temperature control mechanism in place. When they are getting hot they will enable a throttling mechanism, which will execute a lot of halt instructions (idle instructions) in stead of "calculating instructions" which will lower the temperature of the cpu. When this ain't enough finally the cpu will shutdown to prevent any damage. Even when your cpu cooler falls off under heavy load the cpu shouldn't be damaged, although I wouldn't test it on mine ;)

your cpu: C2Q E9550 C0 specs state a thermal specification of 71 Degrees celsius, (TCase), this is what speedfan measures as cpu temperature. As long as you are below this figure your cpu should be safe, according to Intel.

Good luck with it.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:35 pm 
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Location: UK
Hi Kate, those readings are pretty odd to say the least. :shock:

Here's some advice about how to apply the thermal grease because getting it right is very important (you can decide if you like this way or prefer what Neil Blanchard suggests, this way I know the paste gets where it should). I don't worry about putting drops or whatever, I use my finger to spread a thin layer onto both surfaces, I'd say about 0.1-0.2mm deep on each surface, not much. A thin layer like that won't ooze out the sides too much. Then when you put the surfaces together, roll the heatsink on if that makes sense (first one side, then press them together), then rotate the heatsink 5-10 degrees each way, once or twice. That gets the surfaces close together. And that's it.

I don't think what brand you use isn't too important because I've yet to have a problem with no-name grease. A properly working heatsink can drop the CPU temp 5C or more in the first second after it goes from load to idle, pretty amazing really.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:41 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Canada
Vertigo, I agree with you on the spreading part. I personally do it similar. I put a drop on the cpu (after a few systems I kinda know how much to drop) then I take an old credit or gift card and kinda bend it and spread the paste around the chip. It takes me a while but I like to get it perfect.

Then I mount the heatsink down. Then I take it off and see how the contact was and if any "oozed" out the sides. If all went well I mount it back on and go.


*As for how thick to apply it, you will kinda see when you test mount it if there is any uneven parts due to the heatsink or chip not being even.

Also if you are adventurous look up a process called "Lapping" "Heatsink LApping" "CPU Lapping" could be called any of those.

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