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 Post subject: Should I trade off my 650TX for something smaller?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:23 am 
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Location: Rockford, IL ( USA )
Okay, I scored a 5 month old Corsair 650TX for $10 on Craigslist after I sold the rest of the stuff that I got with it :) The question is, should I trade off this PSU some something in the 300 - 400w range with higher efficiency? Atm I'm running an e7600 @ 333x9 for 3ghz while using only 1.175v vs the stock 1.2875v, 2x WD green 1tb HD's, 1 optical, 2x 2gb memory, 3x silent 92mm fans and 1x silent 80mm fan along with a 9800GT EE. Looking around at the various PSU calculators and charts my system's load would be around 200w so it seems PSU efficiency would suffer @ less than 1/2 the rated power for any given PSU.

There is a very very good chance I'll be upgrading to an HD 5770 before too long so my power consumption may peak at 250w - 275w after I add yet one more HD to my system for raid-5 or 2 more for raid-10 ( still deciding what I want ).

With the very likely near future potential upgrades to my system should I keep my 650TX or trade it off for something Bronze certified and a lower wattage to retain peak efficiency?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:37 am 
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Calculate an estimate of what the percentage increase in efficiency is likely to be and about how many watts that will be.

Do a separate calculation for idle and for typical use. And do this for current power needs and projected power needs.

Then go here and calculate how much money that converts into:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=58327

Once you convert things into money, the decision will be made easier.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:17 pm 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec (Canada)
i have a Corsair TX650W myself, and i will keep it since i'm looking to upgrade soon... (tax returns seem to be kinda large for me this year, so i might use a part of that to upgrade...)

this PSU is able to run quad-core CPU and PCIe 8pins video cards in SLi, and plenty of connectors that you don't know what to do with them (right now i put them on top of my DVD-writer since it's right in front of the PSU's connectors hole and next-to-none of the internal heat goes there

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:57 am 
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does running low wattage system on big psu damage psu over time?

so running the psu at 25-35% decreases the efficiency?
I got the impression the TX650 had good efficiency?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:40 am 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec (Canada)
i think running on lower power consumption on a higher Wattage PSU gives more stability to your system

for example, if your computer takes around 400W and you have a 600W PSU, it'll be more stable and maybe more efficient also.

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Case: Antec Three Hundred (w/ Corsair TX650W) | Main Board: Asus P7P55D-E LX | Video: eVGA Geforce GTX 560 Ti SuperClocked 1gb | HDD: Western Digital WD10EALS | CPU: Intel Core i5 750 (w/ Prolimatech Megahalems rev. B + Nexus B/W 120mm @ 12V). | Memory: 4 x 2gb G.Skill DDR3-1600 | Exhaust fans: Noctua NF-S12B FLX @ 12V. & Noctua NF-P14 FLX @ 12V. | Monitor: Asus VE228H.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:51 pm 
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grandpatzer wrote:
does running low wattage system on big psu damage psu over time?
No. But running a system on an undersized (as opposed to oversized) PSU can do damage.


Last edited by ces on Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:10 pm 
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grandpatzer wrote:
so running the psu at 25-35% decreases the efficiency?
I got the impression the TX650 had good efficiency?


The PSUs have efficiency sweet spots. I believe SPCR typically provides a graph of efficiency at various current draws:

To determine the best fit you need to know what that graph is and also know:
what your system draws at idle
what portion of the time your system operates at idle
what your system draws at typical use
what portion of the time your system operates at typical use
what your system draws when fully stressed


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:29 pm 
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but i would stick with the TX650 if i were you, stable PSU with enough power for a quad-core and power-hog videocards, it even support SLi

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:01 pm 
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Location: Essex, England
Quote:
i think running on lower power consumption on a higher Wattage PSU gives more stability to your system

for example, if your computer takes around 400W and you have a 600W PSU, it'll be more stable and maybe more efficient also.


A claim of that magnitude best be backed up with some degree of evidence........

The quality of the PSU is far and away more important than having a huge excess of potential power output never being utilised. That being said, I want to make a clear distinction between a 33% power excess as (I assume a random example) and a far healthier 5-10% excess to counter usage spikes, voltage drops, and mis-calculated usage (usually way over calculated anyway, but specifically people often forget that an optical drive can add more than 10W of power draw on its own, if someone has really calculated their power draw down to such a fine degree). I would certainly ignore such nutcases on many hardware overclocking entusiast sites that tell you that if your system draws 400W at the wall (i.e. AC not even DC) that you really need a 1,000W PSU to cope properly.

I am not suggesting that Raptor would suggest anything of the like, but its certainly on the slippery slope. An excess is always suggested for anyone who might add a power hungry device (graphics card) to their machine that could make a dramatic difference to the power draw, but for everyone else power usage for PC's is falling not rising for a given performance level (who wants a quad core for word processing and Solitaire).?

A quality PSU should be perfectly happy running at 95% power output for hours so long as it is well ventilated.

A question: Your $10 PSU is a bargain, if you replace that with a $60 PSU, how long will it take for you to gain back $50 in electricity bills.? A decade at least is my guess, so why even contemplate it.? In theory its a good contemplation and all of this talk of efficiency is laudable and worthwhile if you were buying new, which you are not, this is why I wont bother replacing my now (ancient and incficient Phantom 500) the sheer cost implications. Remember during such discussions that:

"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." Quote: Einstein


Andy

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:46 pm 
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andyb wrote:
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." Quote: Einstein
Nice Quote

Having some overhead does provide some safety if you don't have a good handle on what your current and/or future peak loads might be.

And I would propose that "rated" capacity is a misnomer. Two vendors can take the same PSU and give it different rated capacities.

I think a case can be made that the Seasonsoic x 650 is really a very quiet 300 watt PSU, but you can drive it higher without harm because it has a super fan that kicks in to protect it against any damage if you run it past 300 watts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:00 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
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Location: Essex, England
Quote:
And I would propose that "rated" capacity is a misnomer. Two vendors can take the same PSU and give it different rated capacities.

I think a case can be made that the Seasonsoic x 650 is really a very quiet 300 watt PSU, but you can drive it higher without harm because it has a super fan that kicks in to protect it against any damage if you run it past 300 watts.


That argument can be flipped over, that 300W PSU could have its fan removed and some fat heatsinks added and be called a 150W PSU.

The type of electronics used in PSU's are very sensitive to load and heat, but so long as the manufacturer of the product is good, and the components used are good, the "rated" power output of the PSU can be relied upon as an accurate figure.

What I dont trust are PSU's like the one linked below.

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/163998

What I do trus is this PSU, that I have been using for some time and I am extremely happy with, that actually costs more than the shit 750W model.

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/152505


Andy

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Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:14 am 
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andyb wrote:
That argument can be flipped over, that 300W PSU could have its fan removed and some fat heatsinks added and be called a 150W PSU.
At 300 watts the fan is not moving (depending of course on the ambient temp)


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