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 Post subject: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:01 pm 
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http://www.silentpcreview.com/140mm_Fan_Roundup1/


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:09 am 
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I think there was a lot of people waiting for a 14 cm fan spcr review, and finally we've got it :)

Hope we can get the TY-140 as well as Bequiets and Noiseblockers reviewed in the next 14 cm fan review.

Great job, thanks a lot!

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:09 am 
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Too bad the prolimatech fans were not included :(
The red vortex 14 is quite silent (this fan was used for the prolimatech genesis review) and the ultra sleek vortex 14 from prolimatech seems very interesting to me.
Any chance these will also be reviewed, next to the ty140 & other fans mentioned above ? :)


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:33 am 
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Thanks a lot for the new roundup.

Kinda disappointed that the best still the old Noctua NF-P14.

Maybe the next roundup we can see the Thermalrigth TY141/TY147 and Noiseblockers PK1 and PK2, maybe the noiseblockers could take back the crown left by the discontinued Noctua NF-P14.

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:35 am 
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There's an error in the conclusion chart at 17 dBA where Corsair AF120 Quiet's 20 degrees is highlighted in green - it should be cyan for 2nd place. Of course, that means the other cyan highlights at the same 17 dBA level should be cleared.


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Beaten by Scythe in the 120mm event, and by Phanteks in the 140mm. Nice job, Noctua Image


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:48 pm 
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Koldun wrote:
Beaten by Scythe in the 120mm event, and by Phanteks in the 140mm. Nice job, Noctua Image


Bashing Noctua doesn't yield anything productiv imho, so we might agree that every product can be a good or a bad one, regardless of the brand name.

What i hope for future testing are some of Phobya's (own claim: waterproof and silent) and Nanoxia's (marketing bleh: 68.5 CFM at a noise level of 14.4 dB(A)) fans.


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:14 pm 
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By no means am I bashing Noctua, they are great second-place finishers.

Image


moderated for brevity.


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:58 am 
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Something interesting I just observed is from the PH-TC14PE review where the Noctua NF-P14 actually beats Phanteks PH-F140 at 7V and lower levels in both temperature and noise.


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:06 pm 
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140mm reviews are here! Thank you!

It's nice to have a clear winner this time.

Upcoming 140mm test suggestions (with reasons):

Yate Loon D14-XX-12 series. At 9 or 10 USD, they're among the cheapest fans you can buy. They've been around longer than any 140mm fan I know. They come in basic black. It's the quintessential cheap, no-frills and hopefully solid fan. Replace XX with SL for 1000 RPM, SM for 1400 RPM or SH for 2000 RPM; I'd probably go with the lowest speed.

Image


BitFenix Spectre BFF-SCF-14025KK-RP. Its blades have the highest degree of curvature across the x axis I've seen. It's also very cheap: around 11 dollars.

Image


Scythe Kaze Maru SY1425SL12X series. Its struts (left pic) are way more curved than the Kaze Maru 2 (right pic) and thus needs to be tested before supply dries up! It's still available are major US etailers in the L (500 RPM) and M (1200 RPM) variants. I'd go with M for versatility.

Image Image


Sharkoon Silent Eagle 800. They claim the golf ball dimples on the blades "reduce air resistance and turbulence, resulting in particularly quiet operation while maximizing airflow volume." On the face of it (pun intended), this seems laughable. I've seen these used in many builds.

Image


Also, please avoid fans larger than 140 mm on any side. You end up with a fan that is larger than the size of the intake while remaining in extreme close proximity to it. Only this time--and unlike 140mm fans with 120mm holes--there is no potential saving grace, because there is nothing larger than 140mm that still incorporates holes for it. This means no Thermalright TY-140 (but don't worry, Thermalright still has the TR-X-SILENT140 to test).

Abula wrote:
Thanks a lot for the new roundup.

Kinda disappointed that the best still the old Noctua NF-P14.

Maybe the next roundup we can see the Thermalrigth TY141/TY147 and Noiseblockers PK1 and PK2, maybe the noiseblockers could take back the crown left by the discontinued Noctua NF-P14.
Huh? The Phanteks PH-F140HP/TS bested everything SPCR has tested, including the Noctua NF-P14.


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:22 pm 
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In addition to the first three fans I mentioned, there are literally 6 other 140mm fans that come in under 11 USD. Maybe it's a mountain of crap, or maybe there are some real gems in there. I know many will want premium fans like the two 140mm Noiseblocker models tested given their good lineage, but they're twice as expensive (or more) as these 9 or so fans. Help us, SPCR, with a low budget roundup!


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 4:10 am 
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BD Hopkins wrote:
Sharkoon Silent Eagle 800. They claim the golf ball dimples on the blades "reduce air resistance and turbulence, resulting in particularly quiet operation while maximizing airflow volume." On the face of it (pun intended), this seems laughable. I've seen these used in many builds.


I've a number of 8cm versions, and they are surprisingly quiet. Their problem is that they develop quite a friction noise that is audible at every rpm if mounted with the struts on the bottom and the blades on top. (So blowing downwards.) But if they are the "right" side up, they are dead quiet inside my case. I use one 8cm version to blow on my passive AMD6570 VGA, it works wonders, although I can't remember what voltage I have it on...

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 Post subject: Phanteks PH-F140TS for sale differ from the reviewed mo
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 5:39 pm 
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I happily went off to buy som Phanteks PH-F140TS fans, based on the review.

But everywhere I looked, the fan struts shown on retail sites and on the Phanteks site show STRAIGHT struts joined at the outer tip to make an open 3-pointed star!
Phanteks site:
Image

Frozen CPU site:
Image

Doesn't look at all like the struts shown in the review, which are 4 curved struts:
Image.

Harder to determine with certainty, the reviewed version appears to have less protruding ridges than shown elsewhere.

Has anyone found a US source for the Phanteks PH-F140TS that matches the reviewed model?

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:04 pm 
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oldabelincoln: good catch. The model SPCR reviewed appears to come only with the PH-TC14PE cooler (80+ USD), even outside of the U.S. :(


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:53 am 
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BD Hopkins wrote:
oldabelincoln: good catch. The model SPCR reviewed appears to come only with the PH-TC14PE cooler (80+ USD), even outside of the U.S. :(

I'm not completely certain, but post #2 on http://www.overclock.net/t/1382743/lab501-phanteks-ph-tc14-vs-noctua-nh-d14-review seems to indicate that the SPCR reviewed model may be sold as the PH-F140HP model in the UK - the poster is in the UK.

Post clearly shows differences between the two models.

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:57 am 
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Could you add mounting size information to the fan info table, that is whether the fan mounts as a 120 or a 140. Several of the 140 mm fans reviewed are drilled for 120 mounting and will not fit a 140 hole without an adapter.

It would be helpful in choosing. Thanks for another excellent and useful review.

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:56 pm 
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UrbanVoyeur wrote:
Could you add mounting size information to the fan info table, that is whether the fan mounts as a 120 or a 140. Several of the 140 mm fans reviewed are drilled for 120 mounting and will not fit a 140 hole without an adapter.


I've updated the tables with this information in the frame size. 120 mm holes will be noted, assume 140 mm holes otherwise (you can also tell by the picture).


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:02 am 
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Re: the availability of the reviewed Phantek model:

Quote:
They will be available to be purchased separately in the near future.

http://phanteks.com/forum/showthread.php?74-Where-can-I-buy-this-140mm-Phanteks-fan


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:20 am 
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@Lawrence Lee,

Can you consider using CPU_FAN header on future reviews instead of Chassis_FAN, seems like its the only true PWM fan header, the other are voltage controlled. Usually PWM fans can be dropped lower with the PWM signal than with pure voltage control, so for example the NF-A15 PWM is advertised by noctua to be able to drop to 300rpm, but in the test was not even close to this, it could be that noctua advertised their specs wrong or an unlucky sample that doesnt drop that low or my guess is that it was because it was used on the Chassis fan header and fanxpert control/test it as pure voltage, so just to take out this variable, my suggestions for the future reviews if it could be tested on the CPU_FAN header, specially on PWM fans.

Thanks for the all the reviews and effort you put on them,

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:52 am 
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I agree, ASUS motherboards don't allow chassis run under 40% duty cycle, CPU fan header allows it to drop to 20%. I think is unfair that A15 wasn't tested at all speeds, since Noctua fans have different duty cycle/RPM curves.

I hope this will be corrected, this isn't a review I would expect from SPCR :/


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:56 am 
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axee wrote:
I agree, ASUS motherboards don't allow chassis run under 40% duty cycle, CPU fan header allows it to drop to 20%. I think is unfair that A15 wasn't tested at all speeds, since Noctua fans have different duty cycle/RPM curves.
The fan % restrictions are true, but once start FanXpert2, all the bios restrictions disappear, there is no minimum cycle, just depends on the header in use, some are pwm others are voltage controlled. The review is correct, the only problem was the PWM fan was tested on voltage controlled, but newer reviews are being tested both ways, really nice of lawrance to take the time to dual test pwm fans, and very grateful for that.

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:55 am 
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I must disagree. I own 2 ASUS motherboards ATM (H77 and Z77), and they all have same restrictions.

Bios:
CPU min PWM speed: 20%
Chassis min PWM speed: 60%

AI Suite:
CPU min PWM speed: 20%
Chassis min PWM speed 40%

I also have plenty of PWM fans at my disposal, and I can confirm that chassis fans simply cannot be run at lower than 40%.
For instance, I run Scythe Kama PWM at 280RPM via Chassis fan 2, I doubt I could achieve that with voltage control.

Can you please give me link to those new reviews? I really want to see how A15 stack up to competition between 300-500RPM (that should be as low as 20% duty cycle)..


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:35 pm 
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axee wrote:
Can you please give me link to those new reviews? I really want to see how A15 stack up to competition between 300-500RPM (that should be as low as 20% duty cycle)..
Sorry, don't have any review links for you, just my personal testing. Check your other thread you started, i posted some NF-A15 PWM runs on FanXpert2. In here ill post some others run to help explain what i posted above.

axee wrote:
I must disagree. I own 2 ASUS motherboards ATM (H77 and Z77), and they all have same restrictions.
My experience is only with Asus Maximus VI Gene which is a Haswell Z87 motherboard that newer than yours, so idk for before models, but still i think should be similar.

axee wrote:
Bios:
CPU min PWM speed: 20%
On BIOS, all ROG Haswell motherboards are restricted to 40% on manual on CPU_FAN headers (this is intended by Asus), and in the preset "silent" is around 30% (there is no detail on the % that just interpolating).

axee wrote:
Bios:
Chassis min PWM speed: 60%
On Chassis is the same 60% as yours.

axee wrote:
AI Suite:
CPU min PWM speed: 20%
As i said before, FanXpert2 overwrites any restrictions on the bios, you believe is 20% because that what your fans are capable. Ill leave you a screenshot of the Noctua NF-A14 PWM ran on the CPU_FAN header under FanXpert2, in where you can see it can drop lower than 20%,

Image

axee wrote:
AI Suite:
Chassis min PWM speed 40%
I also have plenty of PWM fans at my disposal, and I can confirm that chassis fans simply cannot be run at lower than 40%.
Here the concept is different, Asus motherboards only have 1 true PWM fan header (CPU_FAN and CPU_OPT that its a mirror of it), and the rest of headers even though they are 4pin they are not PWM headers, they are fake PWM header as some other members call them, recommended you read ASUS Z87-Deluxe fake 4-pin headers & other fan control info. Ok so whats happening with your 40%..... well its simple, you are running fans that are design to be ran on PWM on Voltage control, and the fans are not design to work like that, this is the reason you think they are restricted to 40% when thats really the minimum voltage they will run (PWM is design to be run 12V not undervoltage).

Here is an example of a fan running lower than 40% on CHA_FAN2 header (fake PWM header, so its running on voltage control) on FanXpert2 (again depends on the fan)

Image

axee wrote:
For instance, I run Scythe Kama PWM at 280RPM via Chassis fan 2, I doubt I could achieve that with voltage control.
Scythe is wonderful with PWM, but its different, in some cases even PWM can reach lower on Voltage control, check SPCR Scythe Ashura CPU Cooler, where you can see a PWM fan goes lower on voltage control than on PWM control, its all about how the fan was design,

Image Image

The important thing you need to understand is how Asus works in BIOS and under FanXpert2, bios is restricted to what you see on the bios, and on FanXpert2 is unrestricted, the restriction are set by the fan capability to run under certain PWM signal or Voltage control, not by the bios nor fanXpert2 (it just determines it). The conclusion drawn from this is be careful what fans you run where, as not all headers are the same, nor the fans will behave the same.

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:28 am 
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So in conclusion, all PWM fans should be tested on CPU fan header. If they are not, it's simply unfair comparison. Thank you for review, SPCR, but I think your tests were not done properly.


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:54 am 
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axee wrote:
So in conclusion, all PWM fans should be tested on CPU fan header. If they are not, it's simply unfair comparison. Thank you for review, SPCR, but I think your tests were not done properly.

:roll: This is a sweeping generalization for a one of the lesser of a dozen things we test for: Using PWM or not has never changed our assessment of any fan. In reality, very few half decent fans are audible in normal use at under say 600~700 rpm, so there's no advantage to running it slower. Hence, the advantage of PWM is not that significant -- the basic sonic character of the fan and its ability to cool at a given noise level is always what really counts. The issue is not about the fan, but about speed control.

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Mike, I understand that and I'm very grateful for SPCR reviews, but I would like to see how fans perform sub 600 RPM. It's not about motor noise, but airflow noise. Interestingly, some fans produce more "wind" noise than others at the same air flow. For example, I have recently found out that NF-S12A produces noticable less wind noise than Slipstream at the same airflow etc.

That's why I like to run them under 500 RPM, that's why I like PWM control, and that's why I would like how they compare on those speeds. :D


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:29 pm 
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axee, I get your interest, but that still doesn't make our reviews "not done properly", which is a grossly unjustified comment.

BTW, if you're listening to fans at under 500rpm and making distinctions between them on the basis of turbulence noise, you have too much time on your hands! In our last 140mm fan round up, at that speed, measured from a meter, they were all at or below the ambient of our anechoic chamber (11 dBA). This is not something you should be worrying about. Ordinary life is way noisier than that! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:30 pm 
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I'm not "listening" to fans under 500 RPM, I just happen to notice, few days ago, that certain fan (not important) was way quieter on high loads than my old long time loved fan. Old fan was producing "airflow" noise, new fan didn't, without the cost of higher temperatures. Speeds were around 600 RPM.

IMHO there's really no need to be so offended by "not done properly" comment! I just thought that SPCR crowd was kind of "OCD" about silencing PC's, that I would see PWM fans tested on PWM headers at all speeds. I guess I'm wrong.

Have a nice day :)


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:35 pm 
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axee wrote:
So in conclusion, all PWM fans should be tested on CPU fan header. If they are not, it's simply unfair comparison. Thank you for review, SPCR, but I think your tests were not done properly.
You gotta understand that not all know about how Asus is design, even right now you didnt even knew, i also didn't know 6 months ago, and so on. I discover this and brought it to lawrance and he been great and the newer reviews on pwm fans have been tested on both headers, so we get PWM and voltage control on both fans. And even then there are PWM fans that run lower on voltage control (like the ones that showed you on your other thread).

Second thing is that running pure PWM fans on all is not that common either, most manufacturers design their motherboards with only 1 true PWM fan, and the rest voltage controlled (if anything), thus there is no really high demand for PWM fans yet, and even then not all are that great either, for example noctuas con drop very low on pwm control, but for example my Noiseblocker PLPS have a minimum of 650rpm... on thermalright TY147 is around 600rpm... Scythe on the Ashura can only reach 650rpm on PWM contorl and so on. While there are many more 3pin fans that can be lower even more and have even better tone than noctuas, etc.

This is not to say that going PWM is wrong, i personally running like that, and probably will on my future builds, but its a preference. I like more to have my fans at extremely low rpms and ramp up as the load or conditions change, and this is nothing new either, many SPCR forum member have achive this with 3pin fans and Speedfan, just i never had luck with it, initially i planned to do with Asus because of FanXpert2, but having only 1 pwm fan header and having a strange way of measuring CPU temps, made me switch toward MSI, and in here i got very pleased out of having 2 real PWM fans headers and very decent BIOS PWM fan control (AsRock seems to have even more tweakable bios on fan control and also 2 pwm headers).

What im trying to say is that the review was done properly for how the vast majority of user use their fans, other factors like tone, motor noise, clicking, etc are far more important than the way you run them, pure undervolting is what most SPCR user do, even though some of this factors can change on PWM. That said, this was brought to Lawrance attention before and he been great and now runs the newer test both ways (very grateful for that), its just that the review you are checking is older.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:03 am
Posts: 29
Quote:
The PH-F140HP/TS fan ("HP" is displayed on the box but "TS" is on the label and on the website)
The review also states it's 3-pin header.

The frame and mounting holes look different on PH-F140TSl. It's odd that it has 3-pin header and PWM control. How can a fan be PWM controlled with just 3-pins?

PH-F140HP looks like the one reviewed, but it's 4-pin header.

So none of those seem to be the fan that was reviewed :?:


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