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 Post subject: Finding -> Realizing Optimal Configurations & Upgrade Paths
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 30
When seeking to realize something based on this thread, was offered|suggested a some-what difFerent configuration as well...

( perhaps this'd work better in another thread )
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66416


__
Greetings to You!


For quite some time, have read, searched for information about parts and tried to find optimal( more usefulness , less cost ) configurations and upgrade|assembly paths , taking into account as much as possible. Still a lot to learn, I think.

It'd be used for game development( including testing ), programming, 3D modelling, image editing, rendering, some engineering, research, learning and such.

Newest or most expensive parts may...
- not be truly ready yet, featuring issues to be dealt with
- become significantly cheaper
and thus might not be most reasonable right away.

Less noise is better. However, shouldn't most newer parts be more silent|quiet and energy-efficient than, say, a P4?

Power
How'd be... ?
- SeaSonic P series Modular 400W 92+ (Platinum) 7 Years warranty Fanless

...Or could there be use of an already present... ?
- Chieftec CFT-650-14C , 650W , 14Cm fan

CPU
- Intel® Core™ i5-3570K 3.4GHz 6M Processor S1155 BX80637I53570K SR0PM Unlocked BOX

How much do many-core processors justify themselves already? Applications able to utilize them with enough benefit? ...Some problems can be hard to parallelize.

Mother-Board
~same price
- Asus Socket 1155 P8Z77-V LX2/C/SI
- Gigabyte Socket 1155 GA-Z77P-D3
- Asus Socket 1155 P8Z77-V LX2
- Gigabyte Socket 1155 GA-H77-D3H
- Gigabyte Socket 1155 GA-Z77-DS3H

Are ASUSes only ones with best|rightful fan control? More are mentioned at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_control#Software

Do|Can 1.35V memories fit if just 1.5 and 1.65 are mentioned in compatibility sheets?

GPU
considered
- RADEON HD 7750 Passive with GDDR5 -- sounded distinctive due to 'Passive'-ness.

However...

If
- there are going to be fans( CPU and ( Case-global | PSU ) ) anyhow,
- "if your system doesn't have great airflow, even the lesser TDP cards may need a fan."
- a higher GPU would not end up making it loud either
- 1GB RAM can start to become limiting
, could as well go for a higher GPU.

...
- MSI RADEON HD 7850 2GB Power Edition , R7850 Power Edition 2GD5
- MSI nVidia GeForce GTX660 OC 2GB GDDR5 192BIT 2x DVI, HDMI,DP 980/6008 DirectX11 PCI-Exp (N660-2GD5/OC)


Currently have...
- CLUB 3D ATI RADEON HD3870 HDCP+ HDMI 512MB GDDR4 OverClocked Edition

RAM
~same price , 1.35V
- Crucial DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHz 4GB CL9 (9-9-9-24) Ballistix Sport Black
- Crucial DDR3 4GB Ballistix UDIMM 240pin, L-1600, PC3-12800, Unbuffered, NON-ECC, CL8 VLP, 1.35V, 512Meg x 64, Low Profile

Storage
- Samsung 840 Series PRO 256GB SATA 6Gb/s

Carapage
- Fractal Design Define R4 Titanium Grey|Arctic White
- Cooler Master CM SILENCIO 650 MID TOWER Black , RC-650-KKN1
- Antec P280 FULL TOWER USB3.0 NO PSU , 0761345-82000-4


Great Things to You!

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


Last edited by T K on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:54 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4770
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Welcome to SPCR.

T K wrote:
Less noise is better. However, shouldn't most newer parts be more silent|quiet and energy-efficient than, say, a P4?

Well, if your P4 is the 660, it has a TDP of 115W. The i5-3570K has a TDP of 77W. So, that's one core with hyperthreading vs 4 cores. Here's how that plays out. Single threaded performance is ~3x faster and multithreaded is up to 10x faster for the i5.

T K wrote:
How'd be... ?
- SeaSonic P series Modular 400W 92+ (Platinum) 7 Years warranty Fanless

...Or could there be use of an already present... ?
- Chieftec CFT-650-14C , 650W , 14Cm fan

The Chieftec fan's minimum rotation is 1100rpm. So, it can't be very quiet. It's ok on efficiency. Your system load power without a discrete graphics card will be in the 130W range. The HD 7750 adds 55W, the 7770 adds 80W. So, call it 210W under stress load and maybe 180W while gaming. The fanless Seasonic 400W would be fine. Or, you could go cheaper with the Seasonic G series 360W (~$60). It'll be quieter than your Chieftec and more efficient at lower loads.


T K wrote:
How much do many-core processors justify themselves already? Applications able to utilize them with enough benefit? ...Some problems can be hard to parallelize.

A better way to look at it: which of your apps will benefit from a quad core CPU? 3D modelling, image editing, rendering certainly will.


T K wrote:
How do compare... ?
- 4GB GDDR3
- 1GB GDDR5

4GB of slow memory on a video card is just window dressing to lure in suckers. Generally speaking, DDR3 on a video card means it's not very good for games. 1GB of GDDR5 is good enough for the 7750 and 7770. If you plan to game at 1080p, or if your game development is targeted at PC gaming, then you might consider moving up to a higher class of card, otherwise you may be limited on what AA, AF, textures you can resolve at a useable framerate.

T K wrote:
Could a 8GB of SSD be enough? Aren't current OSes supporting such HW already taking much space themselves, though one shouldn't need to cache all on SDD?

I think you'd be MUCH better off having a reasonably sized (120GB) SSD for OS/apps and a HDD for data/media. These hybrid drives might be a tad faster than an HDD, but really don't compare to a full SSD.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 30
CA_Steve wrote:
Welcome to SPCR.
Thank you for being welcoming and for the information|knowledge :)


In case of such fanful processors, would passivity and fanlessness of other parts go to waste?
In case of a separate GPU, would some K-ness( HD4000 over HD2500 ) of i5-3570K go to waste? Would a non-K become more reasonable then?


CA_Steve wrote:
T K wrote:
How do compare... ?
- 4GB GDDR3
- 1GB GDDR5

4GB of slow memory on a video card is just window dressing to lure in suckers. Generally speaking, DDR3 on a video card means it's not very good for games. 1GB of GDDR5 is good enough for the 7750 and 7770. If you plan to game at 1080p, or if your game development is targeted at PC gaming, then you might consider moving up to a higher class of card, otherwise you may be limited on what AA, AF, textures you can resolve at a useable framerate.
7750 with GDDR5 sounded distinctive due to 'Passive'-ness.

Does "Cool Stream" mean it'd be more silent|quiet than other-wise or other models? Or could it also be to lure in suckers or perhaps to suck in together with air?
- Club 3D AMD RADEON HD 7850 Cool Stream 2048MB 256BIT GDDR5 ,Directx11,2xminiDP, 1x DVI, HDMI, 860/4800 PCI-Exp,(CGAX-7856F)

Currently have...
- CLUB 3D ATI RADEON HD3870 HDCP+ HDMI 512MB GDDR4 OverClocked Edition


Quote:
T K wrote:
Could a 8GB of SSD be enough? Aren't current OSes supporting such HW already taking much space themselves, though one shouldn't need to cache all on SDD?

I think you'd be MUCH better off having a reasonably sized (120GB) SSD for OS/apps and a HDD for data/media. These hybrid drives might be a tad faster than an HDD, but really don't compare to a full SSD.
How'd be if some data was also on SSD? Could it wear out quicker?
Found...
- Samsung 840 Series PRO 256GB SATA 6Gb/s

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 30
Mother-board
What good strategies exist to get it right or what needs attention? ...Ensure that there are enough holes for every part, including some for upgrading and then minimize price?
Is there also an internal connection speed between ports for parts to consider?

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4770
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Quote:
In case of such fanful processors, would passivity and fanlessness of other parts go to waste?

It depends on what you are trying to do. Do you live in an anechoic chamber with a noise floor of 10dBA where ANY sound from the PC would be noticable or in a noisy apartment next to an airport? It's a relative scale. In general, the approach is to find quiet/silent components and then put them into a quiet case. You can certainly build a completely passive system...up to a certain level of CPU/GPU power (look through the article index). After that, the system will require some level of airflow/fans. The trick is to minimize the noise sources without throwing uneccessary $'s at the problem.

Quote:
In case of a separate GPU, would some K-ness( HD4000 over HD2500 ) of i5-3570K go to waste? Would a non-K become more reasonable then?

Go for the K if you want to overclock. Otherwise go for the non-K.

Video cards: First figure out what level of performance you need - is it 1080p gaming or some other resolution? Do you want to maximize out the effects or don't mind turning down AA/ AF/ textures, etc (just within 1080p, this is the difference between a $100 80W card and a $260 170W card).

SSD: They have longer warranties than HDDs...and for a decently built SSD, wearout takes a longer than you'd think.

Mobo: In general, if you go with the K part, then get a Z77 chipset mobo. If you go with the non-K part, then you can drop down to the H77 chipset mobos. And yes, it really just comes down to feature sets, how well the board works (look for reviews!) and how well it's viewed by consumers (newegg.com and Amazon reviews are good yardsticks for customer satisfaction). In specific, Asus boards get specified a lot here due to their well done fan controller software.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 30
GPU
Quote:
If you plan to game at 1080p, or if your game development is targeted at PC gaming, then you might consider moving up to a higher class of card, otherwise you may be limited on what AA, AF, textures you can resolve at a useable framerate.
Quote:
Video cards: First figure out what level of performance you need - is it 1080p gaming or some other resolution? Do you want to maximize out the effects or don't mind turning down AA/ AF/ textures, etc (just within 1080p, this is the difference between a $100 80W card and a $260 170W card).

currently have a 17.1" LCD -- 768p or perhaps 960p at 4:3 aspect ratio
Don't mind turning down AA / AF / DoF.
Yes, game development is targeted at PC, at least at 1st.

Earlier considered that if, in case there are some fan-ful parts( like processors ), passivity and fanlessness of other parts( like a 7750 GPU ) would be masked( and be wasted ) and a higher GPU would not end up making it loud either, could as well go for a higher GPU.

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
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If you have a 17" screen, it's most likely 1280x1024..unless it's ancient. Easy enough to tell by right clicking on your desktop to pull up the screen resolution menu. In any case, there are lots of review sites that will give you an idea of the range of fps for a given video card at a given resolution for a variety of games. I gathered some video card reviews that also gave noise levels here. It's mostly targeted at 1080p gaming, but, other lower TDP cards are compared as well.

Passive or fanned gfx card when you have a CPU fan: Yes, there will be a baseline noise level in your system with the PC cooler and other stuff. That can be very quiet, depending on your build. Adding any additional fanned component will add to that baseline - whether of not you will notice will depend on how quiet that new component is and your ambient noise level.

On the practical side, once you get up past 80W TDP or so, the graphics card will need a fan (or directed airflow) to stay cool...and if your system doesn't have great airflow, even the lesser TDP cards may need a fan.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:34 am 
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Mother-board
Quote:
"In general, if you go with the K part, then get a Z77 chipset mobo. If you go with the non-K part, then you can drop down to the H77 chipset mobos."
Thank you! That helps narrow it :)

If 'Dual-channel architecture' memory is to be...
- ASRock Socket 1155 MB H77 S1155 ATX/ZH77 PRO3
- Gigabyte Socket 1155 GA-H77-D3H , more expensive

RAM
Have heard that Memory modules need same Speed to co-operate. ...How about CAS latency?
Could there be stricter requirements for Multi|Dual Channel mode?

Could consider combining...
- ADATA DDR3 Premier 8GB U-DIMM 1600
- Integral DDR3 4GB -1600 DIMM CL11 R2 UNBUFFERed 1.5V


AtB!

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Not familiar with the Asrock board - that description/part number looks to be jumbled up.

RAM: Stick with the first tier memory providers...don't think I'd buy either of those. Look for low profile, CAS9 or so, perhaps 1.35V. Get 2x4GB of DDR 1600. If you need more later, you can always add another 2x4GB.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:49 pm 
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Posts: 30
CA_Steve wrote:
Not familiar with the Asrock board - that description/part number looks to be jumbled up.

Seems to be...
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/ZH77%20Pro3/
.

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:10 am 
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No reviews found for that mobo.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:01 am 
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Posts: 30
CA_Steve wrote:
On the practical side, once you get up past 80W TDP or so, the graphics card will need a fan (or directed airflow) to stay cool...and if your system doesn't have great airflow, even the lesser TDP cards may need a fan.
Could issues be similar regarding fannyness of PSUs?


Quote:
RAM: Stick with the first tier memory providers...don't think I'd buy either of those. Look for low profile, CAS9 or so, perhaps 1.35V. Get 2x4GB of DDR 1600. If you need more later, you can always add another 2x4GB.
~same price , 1.35V
- Crucial DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHz 4GB CL9 (9-9-9-24) Ballistix Sport Black
- Crucial DDR3 4GB Ballistix UDIMM 240pin, L-1600, PC3-12800, Unbuffered, NON-ECC, CL8 VLP, 1.35V, 512Meg x 64, Low Profile

...How'd be these?


The best with|for you!

TK

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Here's the thing: when a graphics card consumes 100W of power all 100W is turned into heat. When a 90% efficient PSU provides 100W of power only 11W* is turned into heat.

* 111W AC -> 90% efficient PSU -> 100W DC.

RAM looks good.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:25 pm 
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Carapage
Should a special kind of case be sought?

...Or could there be use of an already present one like in those pictures?
( Can anyone recognize such design or what to call it? )


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:34 am 
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Case Basics is worth reading.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations -- Carapages
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:32 am 
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Posts: 30
Thank you!

A good read indeed and read I did :)
...few years ago already actually, when I searched for and found this site, read many articles. Also read few weeks ago, before registering or posting.

Seemingly more recommended cases didn't seem readily available here.

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:33 am 
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Posts: 688
Location: Germany
But even if most or all recommended cases are discontinued, the principle behind the award stays the same, so it seems possible to deduct the essential architectural traces of a "silent" case.

Some of them are:

-120mm or 140mm case fans, at least one in front and one in the back
-mostly closed case, but still having a minimum air movement
-case need not to be sound proofed with additional material if you pick your stuff accordingly
-pleasing to your eye

And in some cases: WAF requirements.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:34 am 
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Posts: 30
Greetings, Pappnaas!


How is... ?
- Cooler Master CM SILENCIO 650 MID TOWER Black , RC-650-KKN1

Supposed to be a better option than the 550 reviewed here?

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Location: Germany
The CM seems to be a suitable choice.

Get decent PSU and add a few slow spinning fans and you should turn this into a really low noise build. The case has enough room for suspending a HDD if need be.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations -- Cases , GPUs
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 30
Case
Pappnaas wrote:
The CM seems to be a suitable choice.

Get decent PSU and add a few slow spinning fans and you should turn this into a really low noise build.
You mean in place of the existing ones? Or in addition to?


Found...
- Fractal Design Define R4 Titanium Grey|Arctic White
...cheaper than the R3 reviewed here.

How'd the R4 fare? Compared to CM 650?
Should also add a few slow spinning fans?


GPU
Could Bus Size matter less for GDDR5 than for GDDR3? Eg 192BIT vs 256BIT.
As in...
- Club 3D AMD RADEON HD 7850 Cool Stream 2048MB 256BIT GDDR5 ,Directx11,2xminiDP, 1x DVI, HDMI, 860/4800 PCI-Exp,(CGAX-7856F)
- MSI nVidia GeForce GTX660 OC 2GB GDDR5 192BIT 2x DVI, HDMI,DP 980/6008 DirectX11 PCI-Exp (N660-2GD5/OC)

...192BIT GTX660 even being a bit more expensive.


Best wishes!

TK

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:37 pm 
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The R4 is a well liked case around here.

gfx cards: Performance is driven by many things...and memory bandwidth is just one of them. My suggestion is to read some card reviews at the The Tech Report, Techpowerup, Anandtech, and others to get a feel for how these various components interact and to decide what level of card you want to get. Once you narrow it down to a GPU, we can help point you toward a quiet model.

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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:38 am 
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Posts: 688
Location: Germany
T K wrote:
You mean in place of the existing ones? Or in addition to?


In principle. I'd always test the stock fans first, see how loud they are to my ear and then start fine tuning rpm of individual fans.
How many fans will your build use? And how will you try to tune rpms?
If you think of just buying, assembling = silence, then you clearly are mistaken.

T K wrote:
How'd the R4 fare? Compared to CM 650?


IMHO R4 beats the CM.

T K wrote:
Could Bus Size matter less for GDDR5 than for GDDR3? Eg 192BIT vs 256BIT.

Faster RAM is always to prefer. If there are GDDR5 versions of your card, don't bother with GDDR3. Bus Size is determined by GPU model and nothing to order as an extra.

T K wrote:
As in...
- Club 3D AMD RADEON HD 7850 Cool Stream 2048MB 256BIT GDDR5 ,Directx11,2xminiDP, 1x DVI, HDMI, 860/4800 PCI-Exp,(CGAX-7856F)
- MSI nVidia GeForce GTX660 OC 2GB GDDR5 192BIT 2x DVI, HDMI,DP 980/6008 DirectX11 PCI-Exp (N660-2GD5/OC)

...192BIT GTX660 even being a bit more expensive.


You're comparing apples to pears. Don't look at the architectural parts, look at benchmarks/powerconsumption instead.


Since one of our sugestions seems to trigger a whole bunch of new questions, i somehow gather the impression you could use some more basic reading and stuff. Try to follow some of our user building threads, they are often describing what they exactly did to stock parts to tune them quiet enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations -- Mother-Boards
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 30
T K wrote:
CA_Steve wrote:
Not familiar with the Asrock board - that description/part number looks to be jumbled up.

Seems to be...
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/ZH77%20Pro3/
.
CA_Steve wrote:
No reviews found for that mobo.
Better not to bother?

Searched more, for more...

Mother-Boards
Z(1H)77 , ~same price
- Asus Socket 1155 P8Z77-V LX2/C/SI
- Gigabyte Socket 1155 GA-Z77P-D3
- Asus Socket 1155 P8Z77-V LX2
- Gigabyte Socket 1155 GA-H77-D3H
- Gigabyte Socket 1155 GA-Z77-DS3H

Are ASUSes only ones with best|rightful fan control? More are mentioned at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_control#Software

Do|Can 1.35V memories fit if just 1.5 and 1.65 are mentioned in compatibility sheets?


Goodnesses for You!

TK

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Optimal Configurations -- GPUs
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 30
CA_Steve wrote:
In any case, there are lots of review sites that will give you an idea of the range of fps for a given video card at a given resolution for a variety of games. I gathered some video card reviews that also gave noise levels here. It's mostly targeted at 1080p gaming, but, other lower TDP cards are compared as well.
Thank you! Did read those posts and many reviews. Some of those could also be found when searching for "CardDescription review" via search-engines.

- PowerColor RADEON HD 7850, 2GB DDR5 (256 Bit), DL DVI-I, HDMI, DP, BOX
seems reported as less noisy than
- MSI RADEON HD 7850 2GB Power Edition , R7850 Power Edition 2GD5

Trying to compare with 660s too...

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding and Realizing Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 2060
Location: Guatemala
The 7850 also has a fanless version, PowerColor AX7850 1GBD5-S3DH Radeon HD 7850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card, but at that price the GTX760 start to get really close, one that has gotten good reviews is the MSI Gaming N760 TF 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 760 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 SLI Support Video Card

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Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Finding and Realizing Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 30
Abula wrote:
Happened upon|Found about 7850 fanless too :) Where'd the other RAM-GB go?
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/po ... iew,8.html
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... n_US#gid=0

Not sure about those cards' availability here though.


Found circular|conflicting noise results info for
- Asus GeForce 600 Series GTX660 TI-DC2T-2GD5, GeForce GTX 660 TI, 2GB DDR5 (192 Bit), HDMI, DP, BOX
- non-Ti DC2T

How do relate difFerent sites' noise measurements?
- for RADEON 7850 and GTX 660 ""|"Ti"?


Wish you the Best!

TK

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding and Realizing Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 2060
Location: Guatemala
T K wrote:
How do relate difFerent sites' noise measurements?
- for RADEON 7850 and GTX 660 ""|"Ti"?
Its really hard to compare sites, and even then its all relative, not all have high end chambers to measure noise. I only trust SPCR, but there is not that many gpus tested, but other fellow members also share info.

T K wrote:
Found circular|conflicting noise results info for
- Asus GeForce 600 Series GTX660 TI-DC2T-2GD5, GeForce GTX 660 TI, 2GB DDR5 (192 Bit), HDMI, DP, BOX
- non-Ti DC2T
I wouldnt consider any GTX660TI, the GTX760 is faster and cheaper.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Finding and Realizing Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 30
Abula wrote:
I wouldnt consider any GTX660TI, the GTX760 is faster and cheaper.
Here, cheapest respective offers were...
- Asus GeForce 600 Series GTX660 TI-DC2T-2GD5, GeForce GTX 660 TI, 2GB DDR5 (192 Bit), HDMI, DP, BOX €216,00
- Gainward GeForce 700 Series GTX 760 2GB €233,00

Strange :)

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


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 Post subject: Re: Finding and Realizing Optimal Configurations
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 11:23 am
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Location: Germany
Abula wrote:
I wouldnt consider any GTX660TI, the GTX760 is faster and cheaper.


This is not true in Germany, we have the cheapest 660ti around 190€ whereas the cheapest GTX760 runs in at 250€. If you only use 1080P only, i cannot see any real life difference between a 660/660ti/760 because regardless of GPU you will have to reduce the eye candy to achieve 35+ FPS in most modern titles.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding and Realizing Optimal Configurations -- Video
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 30
Mother-Boards
~same price -- 81.38 .. 83.00€
- Asus Socket 1155 P8Z77-V LX2 -- uk.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z77V_LX2/
- Asus Socket 1155 P8Z77-V LX2/C/SI -- seemed to find no info, just offers
- Gigabyte Socket 1155 GA-Z77P-D3
- Gigabyte Socket 1155 GA-Z77-DS3H
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/compar ... =4326,4238

How'd any of those be?


Video Cards
CA_Steve wrote:
gfx cards: Performance is driven by many things...and memory bandwidth is just one of them. My suggestion is to read some card reviews at the The Tech Report, Techpowerup, Anandtech, and others to get a feel for how these various components interact and to decide what level of card you want to get.
Read I did, even more than before. Including over half of that same day of your suggestion.
Found conflicting noise test results info, too.

CA_Steve wrote:
Once you narrow it down to a GPU, we can help point you toward a quiet model.
Yes, thank you! Available models can also affect a GPU's usability though.

...Thought around RADEON 7850 and GTX 660 ""|"Ti".

Most quiet|reasonable models of respective GPUs found thus far seem to be...
- GTX 660 DC II TOP -- seems non-available
- PowerColor RADEON HD 7850, 2GB DDR5 (256 Bit), DL DVI-I, HDMI, DP, BOX
- Asus GeForce 600 Series GTX660 TI-DC2T-2GD5, GeForce GTX 660 TI, 2GB DDR5 (192 Bit), HDMI, DP, BOX -- €216,00
How do their audibilities relate to each other though?


Had considered
- RADEON HD 7750 Passive , GDDR5 -- sounded distinctive due to 'Passive'-ness.

However...

If
- there are going to be fans( CPU and ( Case-global | PSU ) ) anyhow
- "if your system doesn't have great airflow, even the lesser TDP cards may need a fan."
- a higher GPU would not end up making it loud either
- 1GB RAM can start to become limiting
, could as well go for a higher GPU.


Thanks in advance!

TK

_________________
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard : Asus P5GPL
Memory Modules : 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0) , 512MB DDR PC3200U DDR-200 (2.5-4-4-8 2-12-0-0)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series (320 SP 800MHz, 512MB DDR4 2x1.17GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)
SAMSUNG HD160JJ (160GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Chieftec CFT-650-14C


Last edited by T K on Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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