It is currently Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:00 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:38 pm 
Offline
Patron of SPCR

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 3302
Location: Essex, England
My monitor seems to have given up, its had a good innings and was an excellent purchase.

I will double check in the morning that its not some weird intermittent fault, but its sure looks dead.

It is a Samsung SyncMaster 245B 24" 1920x1200 monitor.

19x12 monitors these days cost a fortune, so i would really be looking at a 19x10 monitor, a downgrade in resolution, but perhaps better in other respects.

Money is a real problem at the moment, I don't have a lot to spend, so I am going to be constrained to what I can afford rather than what I want.

This monitor doesn't need swivel functionality, 10-bit colour or to be a 1440p model. I would consider a 27" screen if it doesn't break the bank and really offers something above and beyond the norm.

Money is a real problem at the moment, I don't have a lot to spend, so I am going to be constrained to what I can afford rather than what I want, although saying that I wont buy anything other than Grade-A brands with 3-year warranties.

I do play fast paced online games (FarCry 3) and also much slower games such as Civ-5. This monitor is also going to be the only one attached to my PC (rather than the one I am using that is usually attached to my work PC), so it gets used for everything that people do on PC's, plus this is also my TV, so all movies get watched on it as well - at roughly arms-length BTW.

I have ruled out getting a 42" TV a while ago because of motion blur, input lag, and the colour quality being rubbish compared to a good monitor (unless you cough up loads of cash which I wont).

The IPS vs TN question still remains, but I really have not looked into it a great deal. I suppose that so long as the screen was as fast as my current screen I would prefer better colour quality, viewing angles are a non-issue as I always look square at the screen from the same position.

Video inputs, anything but VGA is fine as my graphics card has them all. I don't care about whether it has speakers or not.

Suggestions, or general input from your own experiences are welcome.

FYI, I looked up the spec of the 245B, and its a TN-Film, 6-bit, 5ms response time screen that has lasted about 5-years and cranked up about 20,000 hours of usage, so although it was one of the best screens of its type on the market at the time, its specs are not now so impressive.


Regards Andy

_________________
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,000MHz, 256 GB Samsung 830, 500-GB 7K500, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr, PC is super quiet :o
Server, 6-TB RAID-5 array, + 2 x 2-TB backup drives, 380W Enermax Pro82+, 4x very quiet fans, positive pressure only, no exhaust fans
Living Room PC, 3500+, 2-GB RAM, HD501LJ


Last edited by andyb on Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 686
Location: Gefle, Sweden
I'd suggest considering some 23-24" IPS based monitor as there are many consumer models out today that are both fast enough for games and has much better angles/colors than TN panels. A cheap 27" TN panel might seem like it could be a great deal and they've certainly improved their constrast over the last few years, but viewing angles remain horrible. If you sit with an IPS or VA monitor for a while you'll be able to spot a TN's bad angles even while looking straight at one.

Most screens are 1920x1080 today but there are some IPS panels that still do 1920x1200. They tend to be more expensive but some using the cheaper e-IPS technology can still be affordable. The downside of e-IPS is that they apply 6bits of color per channel like TN does, but overall they still give you better looking colors than a typical TN panel so it might not be much of a problem. e-IPS panels also tend to be among the faster, while some IPS panels made primarily for office work can still be a bit slow for gaming. Look for models that have come out on the market over 2012/2013 and you'll avoid getting some older office monitor that might be on sale.

I wouldn't write off 23" monitors as a viable alternative for general/gaming use. The market is loaded with affordable 23" IPS monitors and one inch less area can usually be compensated for by moving the screen just a little bit closer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:03 am 
Offline
Patron of SPCR

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 3302
Location: Essex, England
-RANT-

Having not shopped around for a new monitor for a while, I have discovered the same problem as previously.

Is the damned screen glossy or not, if I cant find out I wont buy it, no matter how good it claims to be. I will not have a glossy screen, they drive me nuts.

The seem to be a number of different "coatings" on these screens, but none of these wankers seem to be able to give the buyer the information that they so desire, is its glossy or is it matte.? Anti-reflective, does not give me the answer, is the screen like a mirror, and the anti-reflective coating takes the edge off, so its more of a dull mirror i.e. still glossy, or is it matte.

Surely this is a very simple piece of information to tell the end user, apparently not.

-RANT OVER-

Anyway, IPS, does seem to be the way to go, especially as I am now seriously eyeballing 27" screens, on the basis that if I can get one such as the one in the link below that doesn't cost the earth and claims to have a 5ms response time then I will be happy.

http://www.ebuyer.com/411048-lg-e27ea33 ... r-e27ea33v

All I would need to know now is whether "Anti-Glare, 3H" means MATTE.? If someone else has an LG monitor that's got an "Anti-Glare, 3H" coating, please tell me if its matte or glossy. I want to see no reflection at all in the screen, if there is a lightbulb over my right shoulder i would expect to see a muted dull glow and not the filament.


Andy

_________________
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,000MHz, 256 GB Samsung 830, 500-GB 7K500, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr, PC is super quiet :o
Server, 6-TB RAID-5 array, + 2 x 2-TB backup drives, 380W Enermax Pro82+, 4x very quiet fans, positive pressure only, no exhaust fans
Living Room PC, 3500+, 2-GB RAM, HD501LJ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:49 pm
Posts: 1243
Location: UK
I also have an SM245B! I wouldn't say 7 years old as I've had mine since March 2008 and it was a new model then.

In terms of resolution, I would try to stick to 1920x1200 as opposed to 1920x1080. They are better monitors. If you look at what the really high end CAD monitors are, they're 1920x1200 and I've never seen a 1920x1080 monitor with colour calibration equipment! If however your budget is contrained then you might be restricted to 1920x1080 or other cheaper resolutions - I really don't understand some of the latest ultra wide aspect ratios, they're like computing through a letter box!

_________________
Silverstone SG03B: E8200, Asus P5E-VM HDMI, 2Gb RAM, Leadtek 9600GT+S1 rev. 2, Samsung 500Gb, Seasonic X-400, 2x Akasa 120mm, Scythe Zipang 2 fanless


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:42 am
Posts: 345
Location: Australia
I can vouch for the Dell 24" U2412M.

  • e-IPS, so above average quality
  • Low-ish input lag of 9.4ms
  • Matte screen and bezel
  • Very clean aesthetic
  • Rather dull dark-blue power LED, so nothing bright and annoying :)
  • Solid stand, and easy to assemble and adjust
  • 17mm bezel (for better or worse, just stating it here)
  • No electrical noise/whine at any brightness setting, whatsoever. And I've got quite sensitive ears. :)
  • Low power consumption of ~20W once calibrated -- the top of the monitor takes over 12 hours to get even slightly lukewarm

I got mine for AU$279 (~180 GBP). Its base price is AU$399 (~240 GBP), but it goes "on sale" pretty often in Australia, about every month for the past year. Not sure about UK pricing, but it's worth checking out. Keep in mind that Dell include shipping in their listed price, so that's a bonus as well.

Check out these links:



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:31 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:53 am
Posts: 1541
Location: Sweden
flemeister wrote:
  • Rather dull dark-blue power LED, so nothing bright and annoying :)

A small piece of black electric tape fixes this problem. ;)

+1 for the U2412M.

_________________
Main: ASRock B85M-ITX | i3-4330 | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 730 240GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 13.9W
HTPC: ASRock H81M-ITX | Pentium G3420 | 4GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 11.2W
Gaming: Intel DH77EB | i5-3570K | GTX 750 Ti | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | TJ08-E | G-360 360W
Server: Intel DH77DF | i3-2100T | 4TB+3x3TB | picoPSU | Idle 24W AC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:06 pm 
Offline
Patron of SPCR

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 3302
Location: Essex, England
Thanks for the suggestions.

That Dell monitor retails for £199 and looks pretty good, my only concern is with the LED Backlight flicker. I have experienced this with just a few minutes of use with a couple of 19"-22" LED screens a couple of years ago. This was not included in the testing of this monitor, but is now included with new monitors.

Is this a problem with this monitor.? I will be using this screen an enormous amount, and as such I could not use it if the backlight flicker could be an issue.


Andy

PS: TFT Central is now bookmarked.

_________________
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,000MHz, 256 GB Samsung 830, 500-GB 7K500, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr, PC is super quiet :o
Server, 6-TB RAID-5 array, + 2 x 2-TB backup drives, 380W Enermax Pro82+, 4x very quiet fans, positive pressure only, no exhaust fans
Living Room PC, 3500+, 2-GB RAM, HD501LJ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 686
Location: Gefle, Sweden
If you are sensitive to flickering of PWM regulated backlights then it's definitely a very important factor to consider. I don't know about that specific Dell model, though going by Dell's reputation of changing manufacturing specs on monitors over time I'd be extra wary. Fortunately there are monitors coming out where the absense of PWM regulated lighting is a specified factor, like the BenQ BL2411PT. It costs a little bit more but should have great ergonomics. I'm somewhat interested in it myself and hope that TFT Central will be able to review it. It's a business oriented product so I'd be especially curious to see its test scores on input latency.

Also, I cannot stand the heavier types of anti glare coating that many IPS screens have had in the past, so I'd look out for that on a business model. I'd rather regulate the lighting to minimise reflection, than have a constantly grainy picture.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:42 am
Posts: 345
Location: Australia
andyb wrote:
Is this a problem with this monitor.? I will be using this screen an enormous amount, and as such I could not use it if the backlight flicker could be an issue.

Not as far as I can tell.

mkk wrote:
Also, I cannot stand the heavier types of anti glare coating that many IPS screens have had in the past, so I'd look out for that on a business model. I'd rather regulate the lighting to minimise reflection, than have a constantly grainy picture.

Ah, that's something I forgot to add... :( I've never been bothered by it, but I did read many complaints about it when initially buying the monitor. It does look rather grainy when my eyes are <30cm from the monitor, but from my normal ~60cm viewing distance, it's only very slightly grainy looking -- hard to detect when consciously looking for it, and impossible to notice when occupied with a task.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:13 pm 
Offline
Patron of SPCR

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 3302
Location: Essex, England
That Benq does look good, but its an expensive screen @ £260, sure you get some good benefits, but sadly the monitor doesn't seem to have any professional reviews so its difficult to identify just how good it is in reality vs manufacturer specs, and a big question remains over the "automatic brightness" and whether it can be disabled.

This looks to be a reasonable compromise that has few drawbacks, as well as benefits.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_gw2760hs.htm

No backlight flicker above 20% brightness. No grainy coating, Not IPS, but also not TN, seems to be somewhere between the 2 in terms of image quality. Seems to be OK for gaming, but not superb. only 1920x1080 resolution. 27"instead of 24" 2-year warranty. £200

So, compared to the U2412M, which costs the same, its a viable option, although the only thing stopping be buying that Dell is the question over backlight flicker, and the £200 cost, vs numerous 1920x1080p TN monitors that cost £140 or less.


Andy

_________________
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,000MHz, 256 GB Samsung 830, 500-GB 7K500, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr, PC is super quiet :o
Server, 6-TB RAID-5 array, + 2 x 2-TB backup drives, 380W Enermax Pro82+, 4x very quiet fans, positive pressure only, no exhaust fans
Living Room PC, 3500+, 2-GB RAM, HD501LJ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:40 pm
Posts: 23
Location: UK
I used to have the SyncMaster 245B 24" until relatively recently (in fact I had/exchanged 3 until I got one with a bearable buzz!!!)

I now have the Dell Ultrasharp U2412M... Cheap(ish) and utterly silent! :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:41 pm 
Offline
Patron of SPCR

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 3302
Location: Essex, England
U2412M Ordered.

Will be with me on Wednesday, I cant wait to get back to a good resolution on a large screen, 1366x768 is driving me nuts.

I will let you know what I think of my new screen.


Andy

_________________
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,000MHz, 256 GB Samsung 830, 500-GB 7K500, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr, PC is super quiet :o
Server, 6-TB RAID-5 array, + 2 x 2-TB backup drives, 380W Enermax Pro82+, 4x very quiet fans, positive pressure only, no exhaust fans
Living Room PC, 3500+, 2-GB RAM, HD501LJ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:57 am 
Offline
Patron of SPCR

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 3302
Location: Essex, England
The monitor looks fantastic, thanks for the recomendations.

The colours:

The colours are simply better in every way... richer, more vibrant and are obviously a closer match on screen to what they are in real life (photos a prime example), photo's are especially good to look at, and everything looks more like it should.

Blackness:

The depth of black is such that I am going to finally have to start using "torches" or such magic equivalent in Skyrim, there are dark corners where you bump into things because you simply cant see anything. This goes way beyond just one game though, because the blacks are blacker and everything else is just as it should be, the whole experience in any game or film is better.

Wide viewing angles:

I always thought "what difference would it make sat at arms length looking straight at the screen"...... I was very wrong, and wish that my old TN panel monitor still worked so I could look at them side by side. I could not now go back to any panel with narrow viewing angles, the differences are nonexistent in the middle of the screen but the further towards the edges you go with a narrow-viewing-angle screen the more the colours distort and the dimmer the edges of the screen become. I now actually have my screen a few inches (4-5) closer than I used to, as much as anything else because I can without the distortion affecting a large area of the screen.

Screen coating:

This has an effective anti-glare coating that is a "smooth finish", many IPS screens have a rougher surface that many people find annoying (especially on text), this doesnt.

Calibration:

The "Gamma" (white colour balance) is perfect out of the box. The monitor only needs 2 simple tweaks to make it "perfect", a reduction in the brightness (done), and to follow the instructions for a different colour level balance via an "ICC Profile", which simply wont work for me, tried repeatedly, it just wont happen.

Response time (Gaming):

I need to play with this a little more and do some testing because nVidia released the "GeForce Experience" which changes the user settings to "Optimal" settings. I installed this and "Optimised" my games at about the same time as I got my new screen, so I am not certain which is to blame for my fast games now feeling "laggy".


Andy

_________________
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,000MHz, 256 GB Samsung 830, 500-GB 7K500, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr, PC is super quiet :o
Server, 6-TB RAID-5 array, + 2 x 2-TB backup drives, 380W Enermax Pro82+, 4x very quiet fans, positive pressure only, no exhaust fans
Living Room PC, 3500+, 2-GB RAM, HD501LJ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 686
Location: Gefle, Sweden
Check so that Overdrive is turned on in the monitor menu, and everything should be ok at the monitors side.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:11 am 
Offline
Patron of SPCR

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 3302
Location: Essex, England
I cannot find the option in the menu for "factory Settings", where the "OD" (overdrive) setting is to be found, it should be on by default, but the specs might have changed since this model was released, and the "factory settings" menu might have been removed altogether.

The only thing that might be useful is the presets. e.g. movie, text etc as there is one called "gaming".


Andy

_________________
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,000MHz, 256 GB Samsung 830, 500-GB 7K500, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr, PC is super quiet :o
Server, 6-TB RAID-5 array, + 2 x 2-TB backup drives, 380W Enermax Pro82+, 4x very quiet fans, positive pressure only, no exhaust fans
Living Room PC, 3500+, 2-GB RAM, HD501LJ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Monitor Suggestion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:37 am
Posts: 91
Location: Youngstown, OH
I was going to recommend going with an asus monitor with the new gsync chip added to it. It is a game changer in how gaming is done and I can't wait to try it out. Asus has exclusivity rights on gsync for the first year.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group