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 Post subject: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 780
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Location: Youngstown, OH
"The outside fans are 90mm while yellow, interior fan is smaller at 80mm. Both black fans are controlled by one fan controller while the center one has its own for better flexibility depending on which components need the most cooling at any given time. By separating the controllers MSI can lower noise levels by only increasing fan speeds when necessary."

What a beauty this card is. And to think I almost bought the twin frozr MSI gpu.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-C ... ard-Review

"Finally, we put the new cooler to the test and even though the MSI GTX 780 Lightning is using three fans rather than the previous two (or the one of the reference designs) it is just as quiet as the stock cards under a full load!" Same noise level but 6 degrees cooler at 75 under full load. Would love to see SPCR give this the one over as I'm sure many here would like. This card was out benching the gtx titan due to superior clock speeds. And for the super noise obsessed you could probably downclock it back to stock speeds and lower the fans by a good margin and get the same temps with much lower noise.


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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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This is not an a card for someone looking for quiet card. Most of the time lightning or Hawk cards have more aggressive fan profiles on the vbios. Even in the review, its even noiser than the stock cooler,

Image

There are even reviews between the 760 hawk and 760 gaming, and the hawk is louder,

Image Image

Personally i think the MSI N780 or the Asus GTX780 DCUII (with the new vbios) will be best bet for less noisy high end GPU (the MSI does seem lower noise at idle), the lightning is more aimed for people that overclock really heavy and want to run above what nvidia allows.

Image Image

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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:17 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:37 am
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Location: Youngstown, OH
Well I was thinking more like downclocking the lightning and lowering the fan profiles. Since it has a better cooling system if you downclock it to stock you should be able to have the fans spinning slower than the n780. Is that a possibility? Thats why I said I want SPCR to do a review. Downclock it back to stock levels and lower the TriFrozr fans. 3 fans spinning slower should be quieter than 2 spinning faster right?

I think I'm gonna step down to the 770. Probably just the 400 dollar MSI n770 twinfrozr. basically 300 dollars saved. I'm just worried it won't be enough for 2560x1600


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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:45 am 
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Location: Germany
You can always go the spcr way and send Mike a review sample, bought by yourself. :mrgreen:

He might be able to return it to you after testing, but i can't say for sure, you might want to talk to Mike directly.


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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:48 am 
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laststop wrote:
3 fans spinning slower should be quieter than 2 spinning faster right?
Not always, and also depends on the the fan design, how low they can work off etc. I still think the MSI N780 is the best bet, lower sounding than the lowest GPU they had on the charts, and 3db more on load... i still would love for SPCR to test them as its the only real source of quiet info i trust.

laststop wrote:
I think I'm gonna step down to the 770. Probably just the 400 dollar MSI n770 twinfrozr. basically 300 dollars saved. I'm just worried it won't be enough for 2560x1600
Really come down to the games you going to play, for example most of the my days is League of legends, even under all at high, 2560x1440, my GTX780 is at 50% load, 32C max temps, so i could be with GTX760 and still be fine at full, but other games like BF3 take more, still not enough to justify my GTX780, games like Crysis, Metro2033 are much more demanding.... but then these are games that i play once if so, not my daily thing like LOL, SC2, WOW and DOTA2, all of this games will run fine on 1440p, which is what most people are playing today. I bought the GTX780 expecting to go SLI soon on 4k monitor, but i might also wait for 2x GTX880 to move into 4k.

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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Location: Youngstown, OH
Yea I play a lot of Starcraft 2, Path of Exile (really awesome game it's what diablo 3 should have been), various grand theft autos, BF3, all the crysis's. I got a killer deal on ebay for a 30" korean monitor 2560x1600 was only 475 dollars. The only thing that sucks about it is along the borders you can notice light leaking and its kinda grey around the edges when it should be pure black but you only notice it on a black screen. The screen uniformity on a black screen is pretty poor too but its 2560x1600 and still looks great. And you can't complain really when it's only 475 there has to be a catch. But thats better than paying dell 1500 dollars for their monitor. The korean monitors actually use the identical panel the dell's use, I just think they are the panels that dell rejects for uniformity, light bleed and dead pixels(thankfully no dead pixels)

Regarding 4k, I think we still got at least 3 years probably more like 5-7 years before they become decently cheap. When I can order the cheap korean monitors with 4k for around 600-700 then i will pull the trigger but thats gonna take a lot of years to happen. Most likely 5-7. And by that time I'd rather have a 27" 2560x1440 AMOLED panel over a 31.5" 3840x2160 LCD panel


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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:32 pm 
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even if you take other sites' dB measurement with a grain (or cup?) of salt, this is still very unimpressive - @ TPU

VGA makers, why so much noise in idle? Please, understand that a card that draws 10-15W in idle really doesn't need that much cooling force, the fans (2 or 3, whatever) really don't have to spin and 1500 RPM; heck, I'd even say they don't have to spin at all in idle, or at least < 700-800 RPM. Is this so hard to do? Make an intelligent RPM controller and match it with a proper fan?


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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:44 am 
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Location: Australia
I'd much rather see SPCR review of one of the MSI Twin Frozr "Gaming" branded cards (GTX 760/770/780).


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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:21 am 
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Location: Guatemala
kater wrote:
even if you take other sites' dB measurement with a grain (or cup?) of salt, this is still very unimpressive - @ TPU

VGA makers, why so much noise in idle? Please, understand that a card that draws 10-15W in idle really doesn't need that much cooling force, the fans (2 or 3, whatever) really don't have to spin and 1500 RPM; heck, I'd even say they don't have to spin at all in idle, or at least < 700-800 RPM. Is this so hard to do? Make an intelligent RPM controller and match it with a proper fan?
Im not 100% sure, as i dont own the MSI N760, but according to Guru3d MSI GeForce GTX 760 Gaming review.

Quote:
The idle results are brilliant, the fan will even turn itself off when the GPU idles.
There are some SPCR forum member that are going for it, maybe one of the could confirm this.

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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:30 am
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Location: New Brunswick
Abula wrote:
kater wrote:
Quote:
The idle results are brilliant, the fan will even turn itself off when the GPU idles.
There are some SPCR forum member that are going for it, maybe one of the could confirm this.


I have the MSI Gaming N760 and have yet to see the fans switch off at idle. The min value reported by Hardware Monitor is ~900rpm. It could be that the fans do switch off but this isn't reported to the software--I've only opened my case a couple times since installing it (fans were running both times).

That said, it is an extremely quiet card, very comparable to the Asus DCII 670 that I owned previously.


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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:00 pm 
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I recently bought the MSI GTX 760 Gaming and I can attest that it is very quiet. I have this card in an older P180B case but it never exceeded 74C in there and the fans just barely ramped up from idle.

You can set a custom fan profile with MSI afterburner but I think the BIOS is very well adjusted for noise and cooling capacity as is.


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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:57 am 
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It should be noted that TPU doesn't change any settings at all when reviewing graphics cards, so when comparing noise levels of different cards a few things besides their noise measurement should be considered:
- Max GPU temperature with stock fan profile - if it's quieter but 10* hotter then it's not that great of a cooler
- Overclock - if it's the highest clocked 780 it is going to run hotter than others and the fans will have to run faster
- Did the card ever throttle? If it maxes out at 32db but the clock dropped the fans will need to spin faster
- Probably other stuff that someone who knows more about GPUs could fill in

Also, @abula, do consider that they have a crazy high noise floor when compared to SPCR

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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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Location: Guatemala
claes wrote:
- Max GPU temperature with stock fan profile - if it's quieter but 10* hotter then it's not that great of a cooler
Depends on what you are after, and for what are you buidling your PC. I'll take 10C higher temp in exchange of a inaudible GPU easily, as long as im with in the recommended temps of the manufacture, its a trade that i'll always take. That said i do look for the most efficient coolers, so i can run them at their lowest settings, but the MSI Gaming seem to be getting good reviews about their noise, if i were buying again either of the MSI Gaming line would be my pick, even if the Lightnight/HOF/DCUII can run lower temps, but if they cant be brought down to lower noise levels, then they are not worth to me.

claes wrote:
- Did the card ever throttle? If it maxes out at 32db but the clock dropped the fans will need to spin faster
None of the reviews that i read on the MSI said the cards throttled, i belive nvidia throtles their GPU boost at 80C, didnt see any of the MSI gaming reach those temps, but each setup is different, and usually here we runs fans a lower rpms than OCers, so this could or not be an issue, this would be releated to each setup in particular.

claes wrote:
Also, @abula, do consider that they have a crazy high noise floor when compared to SPCR
Yes but out of not having SPCR reviews on these GPUs, I gotta go by whats available, i try to check mostly the same webpage, Techpowerup usually has tested a lot of the latest GPUs, and while i do think their db numbers are not as accurate as SPCR, i do consider comparing between their reviews to be meaningful, to the point you can draw conclusions into which is more noisy of the reviewed gpus, even if the numbers are not as accurate as SPCRs chamber measurements.

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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:07 am 
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I apologize, I see now how my post could be taken as argument. I was merely saying that it's worth looking at more than the noise results from TPU reviews because if the quietest card, card A, is running 10* hotter and only 2db quieter than another card (B) with stock fan profiles that would suggest that you could turn down the fan profile on card B to achieve lower noise levels (say by 2db, maybe a 5% decrease in fan speed) while getting better temperatures.

For example the MSI Gaming 780 vs ASUS DirectCuII 780.
26/28db idle, 30/30db load
BUT the MSI card is clocked higher at stock
902Mhz vs 889Mhz from the factory
BUT gets higher temperatures at the same noise level
73*/67*C - max temperature with stock profile
BUT THEN they OC the cards as far as they can, and the ASUS clocks higher
1020 and 1765 mem vs 1090 and 1855 mem when OC'd
WHICH LEADS TO the ASUS achieving lower temperatures
76*/68* - max temperature with extra OC

Not the best example, and I don't think they updated the temperature/OC chart for the ASUS card's new BIOS as they did for the noise test, but just to illustrate that a "louder" cooler in idle actually performs better at load while maintaining the same noise profile. I think if they were clocked 1:1 and fan profiles were adjusted you would probably get lower noise and temperatures from the ASUS card.

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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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Location: Guatemala
claes wrote:
I apologize, I see now how my post could be taken as argument. I was merely saying that it's worth looking at more than the noise results from TPU reviews because if the quietest card, card A, is running 10* hotter and only 2db quieter than another card (B) with stock fan profiles that would suggest that you could turn down the fan profile on card B to achieve lower noise levels (say by 2db, maybe a 5% decrease in fan speed) while getting better temperatures.

For example the MSI Gaming 780 vs ASUS DirectCuII 780.
26/28db idle, 30/30db load
BUT the MSI card is clocked higher at stock
902Mhz vs 889Mhz from the factory
BUT gets higher temperatures at the same noise level
73*/67*C - max temperature with stock profile
BUT THEN they OC the cards as far as they can, and the ASUS clocks higher
1020 and 1765 mem vs 1090 and 1855 mem when OC'd
WHICH LEADS TO the ASUS achieving lower temperatures
76*/68* - max temperature with extra OC

Not the best example, and I don't think they updated the temperature/OC chart for the ASUS card's new BIOS as they did for the noise test, but just to illustrate that a "louder" cooler in idle actually performs better at load while maintaining the same noise profile. I think if they were clocked 1:1 and fan profiles were adjusted you would probably get lower noise and temperatures from the ASUS card.
No need to apologize, i like your argument and while i do agree with most of it, you are disregarding some crucial points (at least in my POV), for example in my case, i want my PC as quiet as possible when its at idle, specially at night where ambient noise is low, Asus might have a better cooling setup in terms of temperature, but not all fans are created equal, even the deisgn of their pwm profiles matter (even if you can use software like msi afterburner, evga precision, asus gputweak), not all will drop as low. The Asus DCUII is still noisier at idle than the MSI Twinfrozr,

Image Image

Weather the Asus can be vbios flashed to drop the fans idk, or weather the asus fans can drop to the point that the MSI can to have the same noise ratios idk. Both cards have the same load noise, 30db according to techpowerup (this is with the new asus vbios), and probably asus is better in terms of temps on load and ocing, so you can get more performance for your $$$, but MSI can idle 4db lower than Asus.

From the MSI reveiw (this is the Asus DCUII with the old bios)

Image

Now from the updated vbios,

Quote:
Update: ASUS sent me an updated BIOS that improves gaming noise levels of the card dramatically. NVIDIA's Boost 2.0 tries to manually adjust fan speed levels to avoid sudden changes. ASUS did not take this mechanism into account, so the card ended up running higher fan speeds than intended. With the new BIOS, the card reaches 72°C under load (good), and noise levels are reduced by 6 dBA (very good).

So after the new vbios, both cards have almost the same load temps and dbs (1C lower for the asus). But according to the reviews of each card, Asus has slightly higher core clocks but lower boost clocks than the MSI. Now your argument about the 68C temp on OC is no longer valid on the new vbios, assuming 72C as the new temp for stock, and in the past was 1C higher for the OC 67/68, so it should be at least 73C (more likely more), even then its 76C of the MSI vs 73C of the asus.

Image

Overall i still think MSI is a better buy, lower idle noise (24db vs 28db), 1C higher load temp for the MSI for the same noise (30db).

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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:44 pm 
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I was having an argument about water pumps being louder than the last couple of generations of aftermarket GPUs at an overclocking/watercooling forum, and came across this Legit Reviews article comparing ASUS and MSI's GTX 770s. Wishing they had done a comparison based on RPM or dB's produced, I came across this review of MSI's 770, with a comparison to ASUS's 770, although I'm more skeptical of their test setup for audio. They also did this review of ASUS's 780, but no review of MSI's. I also learned that the 670 and 680 DirectCuII coolers were very different, with the 780 having a 3-slot cooler with larger sinks and fans as well as 5 heatpipes as opposed to 3 - something I had sort of known before but had never really considered. Still worth noting that MSI usually has more aggressive clocks and less aggressive fan profiles.

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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Abula wrote:
Really come down to the games you going to play, for example most of the my days is League of legends, even under all at high, 2560x1440, my GTX780 is at 50% load, 32C max temps, so i could be with GTX760 and still be fine at full, but other games like BF3 take more, still not enough to justify my GTX780, games like Crysis, Metro2033 are much more demanding.... but then these are games that i play once if so, not my daily thing like LOL, SC2, WOW and DOTA2, all of this games will run fine on 1440p, which is what most people are playing today. I bought the GTX780 expecting to go SLI soon on 4k monitor, but i might also wait for 2x GTX880 to move into 4k.


32C? Is that using a custom fan profile? I'm curious about your cooling setup. I'm assuming the system in question is the "MicroMi" in your sig. Do you have a front (intake) and/or side fan blowing cool air toward the GPU?


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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Dmesg wrote:
32C?
Yes, remember LOL is a game that even iGPU can drive, given that im running everything very high and 2560x1440 the GPU wont even reach 60% load ever, most of the time peaks at 52%, so considering the GPU is not being stressed out at all, its understandle, it used to ide at 26C on 20C ambient, but i have moved to Define R4 and temps are little higher, idling at 28-30C, so im assuming the LOL gaming will be around 35-40C, again the GPU is not stress at all.

Dmesg wrote:
Is that using a custom fan profile?
No custom profile, the GTX780 PWM design has issue with Arctic Cooling Accelero III, the fan is controlable, but no matter what rpm you set it up, it get ramp up to full every 10 sec or so, so i cant use software to control it, i might try a custom bios, but worried some about flashing it. Im currently using the included power adaptor and running all the Accelero III on 7V, steady no increase or decrease with load. I ran Furmark for about 30mins and the max temp was 65C.

Dmesg wrote:
I'm assuming the system in question is the "MicroMi" in your sig.
At the time yes, it was TJ08-E on Asus Maximus VI Gene. Now its on MSI Z87-GD65 that ill be posting pics and test on the weekend, but atm im still setting up the fan control on the bios and im not home for the rest of the working week, but ill try to post it on the weekend.

Dmesg wrote:
Do you have a front (intake) and/or side fan blowing cool air toward the GPU?
At the time on the TJ08-E was only the frontal 180mm fan, silvertone AP181, now i have 3 Noctua NF-A14 PWM (two front one bottom).

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 Post subject: Re: Request to SPCR Plz Review: MSI TriFrozr Lightning gtx 7
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Location: Guatemala
Dmesg wrote:
32C? Is that using a custom fan profile? I'm curious about your cooling setup. I'm assuming the system in question is the "MicroMi" in your sig. Do you have a front (intake) and/or side fan blowing cool air toward the GPU?
Just got home yesterday but had to do some house duties, here is my temps on 4 hours playing League of Legends, this game even maxed out on settings and 2560x1440 doesnt strees much the GPU (max load on this 4 hours was 53%), abient temp was 24C, the setup changes as i said before from TJ08-E to Fractal Design Define R4 and im running extremely low my case fans, check the HWmonitor for SYSFANIN. The GPU fan is at 0rpm because its running directly from Molex to 7V converter, as i cant control it reliable with the GTX780 or with software.

Image

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