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 Post subject: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:53 pm 
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my laptop has windows 7 preinstalled. I don't see windows 8 or 8.1 as an upgrade and also, I don't wish to lose the 7 desktop.

For Windows 7/8 users and 8.1 upgrade, do u think 8 is worth upgrade over 7?


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:12 pm 
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Im happy with 7, love its stability, love that i know how to do most of the things i need to.

I even rush buying my laptop last year one month before 8 was released to avoid it, did test on beta but im the kind that didnt like it.

Weather its better or not for you, only you can decide, test it and see how it works out for you, im going to wait for 9 to adapt to something new.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:23 am 
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As long as you have no touch screen, i'd recommend staying with Win7. If you happen to have touch, Win8 "magically" feels less akward and clumsy and surfing with IE and touch is a nice thing for Joe Average.

As to 8.1: From what i've gathered, they implemented some kind of start menu back in, but the existing freeware start menu softwares for Win8 do a better (read: more usable, more like Win7 menu) job.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:32 am 
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Abula wrote:
im going to wait for 9 to adapt to something new.

I wouldn't hold your breath if your expecting any major changes, rumor has it the only major change will be to bring back Aero, rumors on Windows 10 says it will be a cloud based OS.

In reply to the OP, i would echo others in saying only you can decide if its right for you. The default GUI in 8 is a full screen start menu optimised for touch devices, so if you don't have a touch enabled device you may want to install a third party start menu replacement, or be ready to spend a few weeks getting used to the changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:45 pm 
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according to wiki there are some under the hood improvements in win 8 like usb 3.0 support which sounds nice.

not interested in learning a new UI


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:55 pm 
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I have found that in 8 Win+D is the command to remember. It will instantly get you to desktop and desktop mode is good. Great even.

After going through the pains of win8 at work (I hated it!), I bought a comp with 7 at home. I was very surprised to find the win7-machine lacking, despite faster hardware and so I had to buy win8 for home as well.

So what am I trying to say? Don't fear win8. As long as you remember Win+D it is nothing but a faster version of 7 with some (a lot?) improvments in features.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:28 pm 
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Tobias wrote:
I have found that in 8 Win+D is the command to remember. It will instantly get you to desktop and desktop mode is good. Great even.

After going through the pains of win8 at work (I hated it!), I bought a comp with 7 at home. I was very surprised to find the win7-machine lacking, despite faster hardware and so I had to buy win8 for home as well.

So what am I trying to say? Don't fear win8. As long as you remember Win+D it is nothing but a faster version of 7 with some (a lot?) improvments in features.


is win 8 a lot faster than win 7?

do u have to do win d all the time? what about using a program to keep it at desktop?

win 8.1 is around the corner.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:25 am 
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What are the RAM requirements/recommendation for Win8? It seems like keeping everything running unless you specifically shut it down (like OSX) would require much more RAM.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:13 am 
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Minimum is 1GB, recommended is 4GB. Oddly i don't think Microsoft say what is recommended for Windows 7, they just give minimum specs broadly similar to 8 (min 1GB).

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:24 am 
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NeilBlanchard wrote:
What are the RAM requirements/recommendation for Win8? It seems like keeping everything running unless you specifically shut it down (like OSX) would require much more RAM.


For both 7 and 8 i'd recommend 4GB RAM if you want a fluid system, 8GB for a power/gaming build and more than 8 if special need arises (using multiple VMs or other software profiting from more RAM).


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:12 am 
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My impression after installing Windows 8 on 2 desktops and 2 laptops is that Windows 8 is worth installing if one can afford it. It's a more stable and snappier Windows 7 with a few useful additional features, e.g., bookmark synchronisation between Windows 8 computers, more embedded anti-virus program, and enhanced or perhaps meticulous multi-core/thread performance. Also, the booting time has been considerably reduced, which is why I installed another Windows 8 on my HTPC lately.

The irony is that most people are usually swayed by rumors and shenanigans rather than real facts.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:38 am 
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Quote:
My impression after installing Windows 8 on 2 desktops and 2 laptops is that Windows 8 is worth installing if one can afford it. It's a more stable and snappier Windows 7 with a few useful additional features, e.g., bookmark synchronisation between Windows 8 computers, more embedded anti-virus program, and enhanced or perhaps meticulous multi-core/thread performance. Also, the booting time has been considerably reduced, which is why I installed another Windows 8 on my HTPC lately.


I am going to pick apart your brief critique of W8 vs W7 - please don't take this personally, this is just what I see day-in day-out.

Price - depends if someone is buying new, at which point its a non-issue, and I don't know anyone who has bought Win 8 to install on an existing system.

Stability was never an issue with W7, so your point holds no value.

Snappier, only if you can figure out how to use a PC with a vastly different interface to all previous versions of Windows. To me, who has used every version of Windows from W3.1, W8 is distinctly less-snappy - although to be fair, if this is the first OS that you have ever used its no different a learning curve to any other.

Bookmark syncronisation between computers is only any good if you have (use) more than one, most people don't. And businesses are refusing to use it at all.

More embedded AV, its so embedded that it stupidly doesn't even make the end user aware of its existence, I have encountered a few W8 PC's that have serious problems because people have installed an AV program, PC's really don't work well with more than one AV program and can actually become unusable. This is a massive cock-up on MS's part and is unforgivable.

Whether W8 has better core/thread usage is irrelevant to most users who never tax their systems, Power-Users might find this useful though.

Boot-up time has been considerably reduced, as has the shut-down time. This is great news for the army of (cheap/average) laptop users, but makes little/no difference to power users who wuill be using a SSD anyway.

The main drawback to W8 for me and most other people is the hideous UI. The UI has been designed for touch-interfacing, and falls flat on its back for 99% of users. The learning curve alone is extreme, and I have still only met one person who actually "likes" the new UI (although she keeps on asking me how to do stuff, which I always respond with "I don't know", so that's of little value).

On a personal level, when I have the sad misfortune of having to sort out problems with W8 machines, the first thing I do is to install "Classic Shell", which never gets removed when the customer (I am a computer engineer) collects their PC. Most peopel want to kiss my feet for making their W8 machine much more like W7.

---

To summarize. I have no issue at all with people who prefer to use "X" OS over "Y" OS for whatever reason (I know a few people still happily using XP, Mac OS, Linux), by I wont stand by and let your above reasons "why W8 is better than W7" go unanswered, especially as you have given "your" reasons which are unlikely to be the same as "Average-Joe's", and I certainly shall not berate you for preferring W8 over W7 or other OS's, that's your personal choice.

The one thing that I absolutely cannot stand about MS is that they have "forced" the average end-user to buy a (new) machine with an OS that they cannot use, hate using and causes them huge amounts of grief. If MS simply allowed people the choice of W8 with the "new" interface, or W8 with the "old" interface we wouldn't even be having this discussion, and I wouldn't be removing W8 and installing W7 on peoples brand new computers or even installing "Classic Shell" on them. Are you listening MS, people like "choice", give it to them, let people chose which interface they use on their own computer.

The amount of people that I have met who:

(a). Like the W8 interface - 1 (2 including yourself, although I have not met you in person).
(b). Dislike (or even HATE) the new W8 interface - hundreds (that I have met personally).
(c). Are so disgruntled with MS they have started using Linux, about 10.


Andy

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:55 am 
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Posts: 82
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Just Wow.

andyb wrote:
Snappier, only if you can figure out how to use a PC with a vastly different interface to all previous versions of Windows. To me, who has used every version of Windows from W3.1, W8 is distinctly less-snappy - although to be fair, if this is the first OS that you have ever used its no different a learning curve to any other.

For your information, I have used every version of Windows from 2.1 and I'm using Windows 7 (work) and Windows 8 (home) everyday. I believe I am quite entitled to compare them.

andyb wrote:
Bookmark syncronisation between computers is only any good if you have (use) more than one, most people don't. And businesses are refusing to use it at all.

I will give this to you.

andyb wrote:
More embedded AV, its so embedded that it stupidly doesn't even make the end user aware of its existence, I have encountered a few W8 PC's that have serious problems because people have installed an AV program, PC's really don't work well with more than one AV program and can actually become unusable. This is a massive cock-up on MS's part and is unforgivable.

Well, I think this makes sense.

andyb wrote:
(a). Like the W8 interface - 1 (2 including yourself, although I have not met you in person).

I have not mentioned anything about its interface. If you insist in this way, I must add that I don't really like it personally. It's a free country. You can opine whatever you want but should exploit only what I stated. Having said that, as far as my experience goes, Windows 8 is more stable and snappier like I said, though your mileage might vary.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Quote:
For your information, I have used every version of Windows from 2.1 and I'm using Windows 7 (work) and Windows 8 (home) everyday. I believe I am quite entitled to compare them.


Indeed you are.

Quote:
I have not mentioned anything about its interface. If you insist in this way, I must add that I don't really like it personally.


Although you didn't mention the new interface, I felt obliged to do so as that is the ONLY grievance I have heard anyone mention about W8, plus of course the obligatory learning curve.

IMO, MS should (as mentioned before) have given their paying customers the option of which interface to use on the desktop and laptop versions, but on the phone and tablet versions should have only given the option of the new "Metro" interface as it makes perfect sense on a phone or tablet. I have played around with a W8 phone, and it seemed to work well. If MS had have done this there would have been no complaints about W8 at all, only praises, and no doubt as people get W8 phones and tablets they will begin to switch over to the "Metro" (W8) interface on their desktops and laptops.

For the rest of us, I will be waiting eagerly for W9. Hopefully W9 will follow the trend of MS OS's (and Star Trek films) that every other one is good, this IMO has certainly been true in recent years. XP Good, Vista Bad, W7 Good, W8 Bad, so I have full expectation that W9 will be a good OS (and I don't say this just from my perspective, but from Joe-Public's perspective as well, who had Vista machines "downgraded" in droves to XP), thankfully the W8 OS under the skin as you have quite rightly pointed out is responsive, light-weight and has a selection of new and useful features which bodes well for W9 - I was very much looking forward to using a selection of the new features in W8, but personally I would prefer to have W7 without those features than W8 with those features even with "Classic Shell" installed.

In all honesty I was looking forward to W8, as much as I would be able to have a phone and desktop OS that had the same interface, I cannot begin to tell you how disappointed I was (still am), and as such I wont even be replacing my phone with one running W8, I will be using Android, so sadly (for MS) they have shot themselves in the foot and lost the sale of 2 OS's from me (and many other people) who will have likely been put off of getting a W8 phone because of the desktop interface.

On the other hand, I am happy that you (and others) DO like the OS and its benefits.


Andy

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:36 pm 
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i have no interest in win 8 interface.

does classic give u aero glass?

how does win 8 w/one of those classic shells work?


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:50 pm 
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Aero glass has been removed from 8, rumor has it Win 9 is bringing it back.
Classic Shell isn't actual a shell in the strictest sense of the word, it gives you the option to boot straight to desktop, brings back the Start Menu (with a choice of skins, 7, XP, etc) brings back the status bar in explorer, and many other fixes and tweaks. I even use it on Win7 to get rid of some of the annoying "features" and fix some other bugs.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:15 am 
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Spoon Boy wrote:
Aero glass has been removed from 8, rumor has it Win 9 is bringing it back.
Classic Shell isn't actual a shell in the strictest sense of the word, it gives you the option to boot straight to desktop, brings back the Start Menu (with a choice of skins, 7, XP, etc) brings back the status bar in explorer, and many other fixes and tweaks. I even use it on Win7 to get rid of some of the annoying "features" and fix some other bugs.


i guess then how does win 8 w/classic shell compare w/win 7 w/aero glass?


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:30 am 
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Like i said...
Spoon Boy wrote:
Classic Shell isn't actually a shell in the strictest sense of the word

Probably best to follow the link and take a look for your self, as there are plenty of details on the features and pictures to give you a idea what the software does.

AFAIK you cant get Aero Glass on Windows 8/8.1 as the ability for that to be displayed has been removed along with lots of other things.
Microsoft needed to make Windows 8 run well on tablets/phones so a lot of compromises have been made.

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Last edited by Spoon Boy on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:31 am 
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How do they compare?

For the average user it won't be much of a deal. For power users you'll notice some minor differences, but nothing too serious and no showstoppers imho.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:37 am 
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Actually your average user notices massive differences, as the default GUI in 8 is a full screen start menu.
I'm guessing you haven't seen the videos on you tube of people having problems doing simple tasks like shutting down their PC, or launching a program.

It is equally hated by power users for its Jekyll and Hyde split personality and the difficulty in doing once simple tasks.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:24 am 
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Spoon Boy wrote:
Actually your average user notices massive differences, as the default GUI in 8 is a full screen start menu.
I'm guessing you haven't seen the videos on you tube of people having problems doing simple tasks like shutting down their PC, or launching a program.

It is equally hated by power users for its Jekyll and Hyde split personality and the difficulty in doing once simple tasks.


so if u like aero glass and don't like the full-screen start menu in 8, there's not much of a reason for desktop users w/keyboard and mouse to upgrade from 7 to 8?


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Quote:

so if u like aero glass and don't like the full-screen start menu in 8, there's not much of a reason for desktop users w/keyboard and mouse to upgrade from 7 to 8?

exactly.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:53 pm 
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Touchscreens are very much in vogue but they shouldn't be employed everywhere. For desktop computer users control via a touchscreen requires much more movement than control by mouse and keyboard.

I've installed Windows 8 on a test drive but I don't like it. The OS just seems awkward and ugly.

A bit off the subject but I hate the idea of touchscreens in cars because they divert attention from the road. Automobile controls should employ buttons and knobs that don't require sight to use.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Win8 adds a touchscreen interface that looks like a bunch of postcards tacked onto a bulletin board, and some of them are animated (which is incredibly annoying) which makes them harder to use because you can't just know what they are. Icons are supposed to be easy and intuitive. They don't even fit on one screen - you have to know this, and you have to know to scroll to see them, and the darn pop out menu keeps getting in the way, and you can get lost. The first time I used a Win8 machine, I got frickin' NetFlix 3 or 4 times - and I still don't know why or how what I was doing caused it to happen.

What purpose is this supposed to serve? Why can't they fit everything on one screen? Is there any advantage at all to this postcard-on-bulletin board? Who wants a giant touchscreen to clean constantly?

It seems to be rearranged and reheated leftovers, to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:05 pm 
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Windows 8's biggest complain can be fixed by purchasing start 8, but then, it's still an odd bag. Assuming, you purchase start 8, which addresses the UI concerns, my opinion remain mixed, and the pros and cons are

Pros
1) Fast boot-up. This is especially true if you are a power user with multiple peripherals. In Windows 7, all drivers appear to initialize on startup in a sequential order. In windows 8, it's managed smarter and your computer will bootup faster

2) Copy / Paste files. Windows 8 has a more optimized Copy / Paste engine. I think it's even better than Terradata

3) Secure Boot.

Cons
1) Weird design choices remain, such as

a. not having a proper wireless network manager (removed from win 7, have to use command prompt now), so you can't change settings for a remembered wireless network unless it is in range
b. lack of notification before deleting files
c. Windows Backup can only back up files from the user's library now.

2) more weird design choices, Windows search is replaced by "Don't call it Metro" Search. Conveniently, "Don't call it Metro" Search doesn't work like before. I used to just hit win Key, then type in Regedit, or "Task Scheduler". Doesn't work in "Don't call it Metro" Search. Again, this might not matter to you.

3) if you are on a laptop, Windows 8 recognizes edge swipes and brings up charm bars. This makes the oft-annoying to use windows touchpad even less usable.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:35 am 
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Blood wrote:
1) Fast boot-up. This is especially true if you are a power user with multiple peripherals. In Windows 7, all drivers appear to initialize on startup in a sequential order. In windows 8, it's managed smarter and your computer will bootup faster

2) Copy / Paste files. Windows 8 has a more optimized Copy / Paste engine. I think it's even better than Terradata

3) Secure Boot.


Actually i would consider all those pro's as con's

1) Yes it boots faster, but only because it uses a hybrid boot. Essentially the internal Windows processes use hibernate all the time, but the drivers start up like they would on a cold boot. hiberfil.sys is by default 75% of physical RAM, so on an average PC that's 6GB of HDD/SSD space used up, along with added security concerns.

2) Yes you get more detailed information when copying files in 8, but benchmarks show for small files the two are the same, and for large files 8 is actually slower than 7 (by a small margin). http://www.techspot.com/review/561-windows8-vs-windows7/page3.html

3) Secure Boot only works if you have a UEFI compatible MoBo, and even then it has caused a lot of problems for people when they try to install other OS's such as Linux.
There’s a campaign by the Free Software Foundation against secure boot, and a lot of people have been saying that it’s a “power grab” by Microsoft to “eliminate free operating systems”.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:41 am 
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win 8 or 8.1 supports usb 3.0 - does win 7?
what about 4k display and resizing fonts


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:22 am 
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Location: London
dan wrote:
win 8 or 8.1 supports usb 3.0 - does win 7?

Windows 8 supports USB 3 natively (Msoft drivers come with the OS), Windows 7 would need drivers installed before the device would operate above USB 2 speeds
dan wrote:
what about 4k display and resizing fonts

Win 7 and 8 offer no native support for 4k afaik, rumor has it 8.1 is going to support 4k better.But in the end its more if your GPU drivers support 3840x2160.
IDK many people that depend on the drivers that come with Windows rather than installing the driver provided by the vendor of their hardware.

_________________
Case: P182, Fans: 4xNF-P12@800Rpm, MoBo: GA-EX58-UD4, CPU: i920, GPU: GV-N670OC-2GD, PSU: Seasonic 760 platinum, HDD: HD203WI, SSD: VTX4-25SAT3-128


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:52 am
Posts: 114
Spoon Boy wrote:

1) Yes it boots faster, but only because it uses a hybrid boot. Essentially the internal Windows processes use hibernate all the time, but the drivers start up like they would on a cold boot. hiberfil.sys is by default 75% of physical RAM, so on an average PC that's 6GB of HDD/SSD space used up, along with added security concerns.



Really? That's a con? Why would I (or most people) care what trickery Microsoft used to make windows boot up faster? On my machine, bootup time (with fast boot enabled, which is another shortcut where Bios doesn't do most system checks) went from 14 seconds to ~5 seconds. I like it.

Spoon Boy wrote:

2) Yes you get more detailed information when copying files in 8, but benchmarks show for small files the two are the same, and for large files 8 is actually slower than 7 (by a small margin). http://www.techspot.com/review/561-windows8-vs-windows7/page3.html



OK, agreed, didn't know.

Spoon Boy wrote:

3) Secure Boot only works if you have a UEFI compatible MoBo, and even then it has caused a lot of problems for people when they try to install other OS's such as Linux.
There’s a campaign by the Free Software Foundation against secure boot, and a lot of people have been saying that it’s a “power grab” by Microsoft to “eliminate free operating systems”.


I think you are mixing Microsoft's Mandated use of Secure Boot on the RT devices vs. the optional requirement on an x86 PC. If you are able to install Linux on a Secure Boot enabled PC, then that kind of defeats the purpose of Secure Boot. If you don't want to use Secure Boot, don't enable it. I am slightly paranoid when it comes to data security, and I like having it on my travel laptop.

Again, I don't advocate Win 8. I have been testing it on VM for a while, and still hate Metro UI (especially since my primary desktop uses two monitors at 2560). I also purchased STart8 / Acronis to compensate for 2 features removed from win 7 and resent having to pay for them. But gotta give credit where due. Start8 does a pretty good job at hiding the Metro UI.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:23 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Posts: 1087
Blood wrote:
Spoon Boy wrote:

1) Yes it boots faster, but only because it uses a hybrid boot. Essentially the internal Windows processes use hibernate all the time, but the drivers start up like they would on a cold boot. hiberfil.sys is by default 75% of physical RAM, so on an average PC that's 6GB of HDD/SSD space used up, along with added security concerns.



Really? That's a con? Why would I (or most people) care what trickery Microsoft used to make windows boot up faster? On my machine, bootup time (with fast boot enabled, which is another shortcut where Bios doesn't do most system checks) went from 14 seconds to ~5 seconds. I like it.

Spoon Boy wrote:

2) Yes you get more detailed information when copying files in 8, but benchmarks show for small files the two are the same, and for large files 8 is actually slower than 7 (by a small margin). http://www.techspot.com/review/561-windows8-vs-windows7/page3.html



OK, agreed, didn't know.

Spoon Boy wrote:

3) Secure Boot only works if you have a UEFI compatible MoBo, and even then it has caused a lot of problems for people when they try to install other OS's such as Linux.
There’s a campaign by the Free Software Foundation against secure boot, and a lot of people have been saying that it’s a “power grab” by Microsoft to “eliminate free operating systems”.


I think you are mixing Microsoft's Mandated use of Secure Boot on the RT devices vs. the optional requirement on an x86 PC. If you are able to install Linux on a Secure Boot enabled PC, then that kind of defeats the purpose of Secure Boot. If you don't want to use Secure Boot, don't enable it. I am slightly paranoid when it comes to data security, and I like having it on my travel laptop.

Again, I don't advocate Win 8. I have been testing it on VM for a while, and still hate Metro UI (especially since my primary desktop uses two monitors at 2560). I also purchased STart8 / Acronis to compensate for 2 features removed from win 7 and resent having to pay for them. But gotta give credit where due. Start8 does a pretty good job at hiding the Metro UI.


does start 8 make it exactly like win 7? will it work for 8.1?


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