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 Post subject: Here's my plan, it is based upon ECE4252, need your advise
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:54 pm 
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This wil be my first build. Since many of my questions have to do with this case, I decided it post it in the case section in hopes that those that have knowledge of this case will see my post. I hope this is the right place to post it.

Intented application: Image editing, web surfing, light development, light DVD, light music. Not a gamer.

Case: Ever Case ECE4252-PCT, side duct, 2 USB front, 120mm fan rear, 300W PSU here
PSU: Seasonic Super Silencer 400W, SS-400AGX (retail) here
Vibration Dampening Kits: Vantec VDK-PSU, Vantec VDK-120
fan control: Zalman Fanmate 1 on each fan

Cards:
Video: Matrox G550 (retail)
Sound: Creative Labs LS Audigy ?
SCSI for scanner
Modem for internet

Motherboard: Intel D875PBZ, Retail BOXD985PBZLK
Memory: Crucial 512MB 2x256 DDR SDRAM 400MHz memory
CPU: Intel 2.4GHz 800 FSB 512K HT (retail)
CPU Cooler: Zalman CNPS7000A-alcu (retail)here

HDD1: IBM Deskstar 60GXP 40GB 7200rpm ATA-100 IDE (from old system)
HDD2: Matrox 8GB ATA-33 used for backing up data (from old system)
Optical: Samsung Combo DVD/CD-RW 8mb Cache Model SM-352BBRNS RETAIL

QUESTIONS. I have answered many of my questions by searching, but these questions and a few more remain. Some I'm sure will reflect my newbie status.

1) Does this case (ECE4252-PCT) come with motherboard standoffs? or do I need to order?
If it comes with them, what kind (metal screw in, metal inserts, plastic)?
I read that the metal screw in is best, so I hope I can use those.

2) This case (ECE4252-PCT) comes with rear 120mm fan. Keep or replace?
What thickness is this 120mm fan, 38mm? 25mm? or ?
What fan does it come with? Is it quiet at 7v and 5v?
Does this fan have rpm monitoring?
If not, is it helpful to have rpm monitoring on this fan?

3) I want to add a front intake fan to help cool hard drives in the summer when it gets hot, no air conditioning. In the cooler months I can unplug it. What fan would be best? Does this sound right?

Is it helpful to have RPM monitoring on this fan? d875pbz motherboard if that matters.

Will this case (ECE4252-PCT) take a 120mm in front? If so, what thickness, 38mm, 25mm, 24mm? I remember reading of a case that required 24mm front fan, but not sure what case it was.

4) Power supply. I choose 400W PSU based upon desire to leave adequate head-room so drive won't spin up as much, and so there will be room for further upgrades. Do you think I am going overboard here?

5) Since HDD controller on mobo is ATA-133, is it OK to use my existing cable? I bought this cable before ATA-133 came out; it said it was for 33/66/100. Drives are one ATA-100 and one ATA-33?

6) For Samsung DVD/CD-RW drive, is it Ok to use the 40 pin cable from the old Dell system, it was connected to the 8X CD-ROM drive on old dell PII system.

7) For floppy drive, is it OK to use the drive and cable from the old dell PII system?

Thanks for this wonderful group.
Lilla


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:53 pm 
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Hey Lilla,

Personally I'd get a new drive to replace your 60GXP. That was one of their afflicted ones -- high failure rate due to a hot IC. A 8mb cache Samsung -- or even the 2 mb cache versions -- will give you better performance, be quieter and probably last longer. They run pretty cool. I just got some 80G SP0802Ns & really like how they perform.

1) They generally all come with hardware accessories to mount whatever you would normally mount in a PC. I've used this case a few times -- it has nicely raised "volcano cones" that stand the mobo off and don't require other standoffs.

2) If you are referring to http://evercase.com/newsite/2product/index4252.htm, this case can only accept an 80mm on the back panel. No way to mod it for other. I got it without any fans or PSU.

3) I use Panaflo 80Ls everywhere. speed monitoring is not a big deal; play it by ear :wink: If in front, soft mount the fan in some way, it will be less audible. A good Panaflo 80L sample at ~6V will be as quiet as any suspended HDD behind it. 120mm fan in front is overkill, they are too noisy for the front IMO.

4) no.

5) probably. cheap to replace if needed.

6 & 7) yup

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:42 am 
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MikeC, thanks for the answers, I really appreciate the advise.

Glad to hear that RPM is no big deal as it is hard to find those. I'll add a 80mm fan to my list and a Vantec vibration dampening.

Mike, I saw that you used weather stripping on your bread box, good idea. I love the "bread box" computer. Catchy name too!

I remember that problem with the 40GB hard drives, but I think the problem was resolved before I bought mine. I'll make a note of your HDD recommendation just in case.

Regarding the 120mm back fan. On Newegg, some ECE4252 models they offer have 80mm fan in rear, but this one the ECE4252-PCT says 120mm fan in rear. I figured it is something they did to gain the "Recommended by Intel" notation. It is the only case that says that.

If you click here then click on the More... link, that is where it says 120mm fan in rear, as shown below:

Front: 8 cm Fan x 1 +Rear: 12cm fan x1 + Left side: 8cm fan x1 or fan duct x 1 (optional)

I would like to confirm (one way or the other) on the 120mm rear fan on this model, because if it's not going to be 120mm in the rear, then I'd rather have one without the PSU like you use.

Mike, I remember that you said that your quietest systems use a channeled airflow. This got me thinking about how I might do something like that. I'm thinking that it would be best to use a Super Silencer type PSU, rather than a Super Torando type PSU. Is this correct? If so, then I could install my CDRW in a lower bay and leave the top bay for airflow, and add some material to form the duct to the power supply input in the back of the power supply. Am I on the right track?

Thanks so very much for sharing your experiece with me.
Lilla


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:58 am 
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Lilla,

Ah, I see the case specs you're pointing to. Someone had mentioned that Evercase has a 120mm fan version -- this must be the one!

Yeah, the Breadbox PC just keeps getting in the news -- probably the best PR thing I've ever done! :roll: Something about it seems to appeal to people.

Re - the PSU ducting -- totally on the right track. :wink: With the PSU getting fresh air from the outside, it remains independent of in-case temp, only has to cool itself. A Seasonic PSU fan rarely speeds up in such a setup. A case fan is then a total necessity, but I find 2 fans at 1000 rpm is much quieter than 1 of those fans at 2000 rpm. This make little difference with lower wattage CPUs -- say under 50W -- but the higher the CPU wattage, the more useful it is.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:50 am 
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MikeC, oh great I'm on the right track on the airflow channeling. Now while I've got your attention let me ask you this:

If I make a channel will the PSU get enough fresh air from just slits in the sides of the bezel for the top bay, or do I need to drill holes in the drive bay?

I've heard about some people with a black case talk of using a black open foam block, but I'm going with a beige case, so not so easy to make it look good.

What's your opinion, will I want to use case dampening material? If so I'd like to install it from the start so I don't have to take it apart and redo.

Lilla


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:56 am 
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Lilla wrote:
Regarding the 120mm back fan. On Newegg, some ECE4252 models they offer have 80mm fan in rear, but this one the ECE4252-PCT says 120mm fan in rear. I figured it is something they did to gain the "Recommended by Intel" notation. It is the only case that says that.

If you click here then click on the More... link, that is where it says 120mm fan in rear, as shown below:

Front: 8 cm Fan x 1 +Rear: 12cm fan x1 + Left side: 8cm fan x1 or fan duct x 1 (optional)

I would like to confirm (one way or the other) on the 120mm rear fan on this model, because if it's not going to be 120mm in the rear, then I'd rather have one without the PSU like you use.


Look at the pics of that Evercase you linked (click on the "see it" link). They definitely show an 80mm fan in the back and the potential for a 120mm fan in the front. I think that spec sheet that says "Rear: 12cm fan" is a typo.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:21 am 
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Just an additional answer to question 5 (about harddrive IDE cables).
Your old cables are probably ATA-100 cables.
If you decide to stick with your old harddrives (none of them are faster than ATA-100 interface) you will still be fine with the ATA-100 cable.

If you decide to follow the advice given in this thread to buy a new Samsung drive (they are ATA-133) you will still get it to work with your old cable, but it will only be able to use ATA-100 speed.
So if you get an ATA-133 drive and has a motherboard that support ATA-133 you will waste speed unless you get an ATA-133 cable.

Also note that ATA-100 can only handle harddrives up to 128GB capacity. This means that any larger drives will force you to use ATA-133.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:31 am 
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Lilla wrote:
If I make a channel will the PSU get enough fresh air from just slits in the sides of the bezel for the top bay, or do I need to drill holes in the drive bay?

What's your opinion, will I want to use case dampening material? If so I'd like to install it from the start so I don't have to take it apart and redo.

I take the cover off the top 5" bay. I've made perforated covers out of "modder's mesh" or similar. With a little care you can make this look pretty good, and spray painte it to match if you like. Trick is to use a template that you can bend the mesh around.

Damping material is most effective on the inside top, left cover, and behind front bezel, mostly accessible after installation, but obviously before is easier. If you are going to do the PSU channel, then definitely line the top with something. You also want to cover the vent hole in the side of the case. I've used white closed cell foam -- stuff is used often as shipping end caps for gear -- cases, printers, etc-- to protect against damage. It is easy to stick with a hot glue gun -- if you move fast (glue dries fast).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:50 am 
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silvervarg, thanks for the detailed cable information. Lots of good informaiton there. Looks like I'll be OK with my existing cables until I get a new drive HDD. Then I'll need a new cable.

MikeC, "modders mesh", OK. I'm not fond of the mesh look, but then I like it better than noise. Thanks for tips on using modders mesh & areas to put dampening material. Makes sense to leave dampening till last then.

MikeC, do you recommend that I close the side vent permanently?
Using hot glue sounds permanent, I was thinking of closing it off in a temporary way, say by taping some material over the holes. This way I would have the option of using the side vent with duct later if I needed it. But, maybe you are thinking that the side vent is disturbing the airflow stream. Let me ask it this way:

With this case (ECE-4252-PCT which comes with side vent with duct) do you see any reason to ever use the side vent with duct to get more air to the CPU? Even at a later date when I might install hotter components, like bigger faster drives, larger CPU, etc. Because if not then I might as well order a case that doesn't have it. If it's a useless feature I would like to know, because it would be another reason to switch to a different 4252 configuration.

Quote:
Look at the pics of that Evercase you linked (click on the "see it" link). They definitely show an 80mm fan in the back and the potential for a 120mm fan in the front. I think that spec sheet that says "Rear: 12cm fan" is a typo.


Ralf, I noticed that too, that the pictures and the words don't match, but then they have that statement below the pictures to the effect that the pictures may not be 100% accurate...

Since others in the group have posted about the 120mm fan on this case, I concluded (perhaps wrongly so) that the words are right and picture needs to be updated. But, could be the other way around too. I certainly noticed that big open grate in the front there, that you are talking about.

I hope someone that bought this case will let us know on this point, as if could make me change to the 4252 configuration that Mike uses.

Lilla


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:30 am 
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Lilla wrote:
silvervarg, thanks for the detailed cable information. Lots of good informaiton there. Looks like I'll be OK with my existing cables until I get a new drive HDD. Then I'll need a new cable.


You will probably get a new flat 80-wire IDE cable that will be ATA133 compliant as a part of your motherboard package. You didn't list your source for the mobo, but check out the pics of mobos at newegg. Most show the cables included.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:44 am 
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Quote:
MikeC, do you recommend that I close the side vent permanently?

Hot glue is not THAT sticky. It can be peeled off pretty easily. I've never used the side vent on any PC -- but then I don't run hot VGAs or 100W CPUs. Like many PC silencing issues, it really depends on particulars whether you need/want to use the side vent. I know Intel specifies this now for a case to be "Intel P4 certified" -- presumably to ensure adequate cooling.

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 Post subject: Ever Case ECE4252-PCT v. ECE4252-AB
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:03 pm 
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Quote:
Look at the pics of that Evercase you linked (click on the "see it" link). They definitely show an 80mm fan in the back and the potential for a 120mm fan in the front. I think that spec sheet that says "Rear: 12cm fan" is a typo.


Ralf, I went to Newegg site and did some more comparing of text and pictures. I now see it the way you see it, I think the picture must be correct and the text must be wrong. Thanks for giving this perspective. It helped me to make the decision to switch to the -AB model, more on this below.

MikeC, does the NewEgg case that you use use have the 2 USB ports in the front? Is it the one I link to below?

Do you cut the grill work out in the back and replace it with a wire grill, or is the grill work in back open enough as is?

I'm looking now at Newegg Ever Case model ECE4252-AB $26 here
- no power supply, good
- holes for 80mm fans front and rear, fans not included, good
- 2 removable HDD cages, room for 4 drives.
- side vent holes & side fan, fan can be removed, holes can be sealed off
? 2 USB ports in front, maybe, it is not clear, read explanation below

-AB makes no mention of front ports in the text, and the pictures do not include a shot of the port bay open. On -PCT the text clearly states 2 front USB ports, and the pictures shows the front port bay in the open position and you see the 2 USB ports. Leads one to think that -AB does not have front ports, but maybe it does, read below.

But go now to the comments written by the buyers of the -AB, and you will see that there are a number of posts that mention the front USB ports. Is another instance of incorrect information in the product description/pictures?

In the event it doesn't have USB ports (would be nice to have them) I notice that evercase.com lists the front port kits as an option but Egghead doesn't sell these kits, but someone must. But, I'm hoping that it has the 2 front USB ports and just doesn't state/show them.

In any event, I've decided to switch from the -PCT to the -AB model so I don't have to pay for a PSU that I don't want.

Price for -PCT 45 = $39+6 for optional 2nd removable HDD cage.
Price for -AB $26 includes 2nd removable HDD cage
A savings of $19.

Thanks for the great feedback, silentpcreview.com is great!

Lilla


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:08 pm 
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I had the impression the USB front ports were included with all of them... maybe not. From the horse -- http://evercase.com/newsite/index.html

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:21 pm 
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I bought the -AB for my father-in-law and I distinctly remember it having front USB ports.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:47 pm 
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Quote:
You will probably get a new flat 80-wire IDE cable that will be ATA133 compliant as a part of your motherboard package. You didn't list your source for the mobo, but check out the pics of mobos at newegg. Most show the cables included.


aphonos, Thanks for that information. I checked on the motherboard package contents and indeed it comes with 2 ribbon cables, i/o plate for back, and some other cables that looked like USB probably, and maybe a few othe things.

I'm getting it from Newegg or ZipZoomFly, will decide on the day I order as some stuff is coming from each, this board could go either way.

Lilla


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:03 pm 
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miker wrote:
I bought the -AB for my father-in-law and I distinctly remember it having front USB ports.


That's great, I'm glad I found out about the -AB before I ordered the -PCT.

Since this is a good case at a good price, I'm thinking this thread might be a big help to a lot of people. There's a lot of good information posted here. It might even deserve a sticky, or something.

Lilla


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:36 pm 
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Lilla - I've noticed recently that Evercase website lists an atx aluminum case that looks similar to ECE 4252 steel case. This new aluminium version does indeed come with an option for a rear 120mm fan. So is it possible that they also released a steel version of that case with the traditonal ECE 4252 front bezel? If 4252 PCT does indeed come with the option for a 120 mm fan placement then it could be one of the best cases available for silent computing as its aiflow design is second to none. I got the 80mm version btw.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:20 pm 
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mahkum2 wrote:
Lilla - I've noticed recently that Evercase website lists an atx aluminum case that looks similar to ECE 4252 steel case. This new aluminium version does indeed come with an option for a rear 120mm fan. So is it possible that they also released a steel version of that case with the traditonal ECE 4252 front bezel? If 4252 PCT does indeed come with the option for a 120 mm fan placement then it could be one of the best cases available for silent computing as its aiflow design is second to none. I got the 80mm version btw.


Well, the plot thickens, after reading your post, I checked the parts list on the Ever Case site for the ECE-4252 case, and lo and behold, it lists a 12cm rear fan!

The parts list for ECE-4252here list these parts:

E4252-04 Side Fan Kit/8cm Sleeve Fan 4
E4252-04A Side Fan Kit/8cm Ball-bearing (two balls) Fan 5
E4252-04B Side Fan Kit/8cm Ball-bearing (one balls) Fan 6
E4252-06 Front 8 cm Sleeve Fan 14
E4252-14 12cm sleeve bearing rear fan 23 <== 120mm fan rear

It's interesting that there is no mention of an 80mm rear fan. Of course it would be the same as the front 8 cm fan, but they don't say Front/Rear on the 8 cm fan, they say only Front.

Yet, right below this they say

VENTILATION Front: 8 cm Fan x 1 +Rear: 8cm fan x1 +
Left side: 8cm fan x1 or fan duct x 1

It's definitely confusing, but it leaves room to wonder if the -PCT might indeed have a 12 cm fan. Maybe they will change all models over to 12 cm fans in the rear?

Lilla


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:13 pm 
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OK, seeing as there was all this confusion, I emailed Julia at Evercase (US office). Her prompt response:

Quote:
1. Model No. E4252-91, E4252 CASE IN BEIGE, 12CM FAN VERSION, WITH FRONT 2XUSB2.0 PORTS

2. Model No. E4252B-91, E4252 CASE IN BLACK, 12CM FAN VERSION, WITH FRONT 2XUSB2.0 PORTS

Please note 12cm fan version case is in the same price as 8cm fan version case, but there is one limitation, it is unable to put the E4252-07-PLASTIC LONG CARD HOLDER.

3. All the E4252 case comes with the METAL EMBOSS for the standoffs. Also there are several standoffs and screws inside the spare box.

4. 2 front USB2.0 ports are standard now. However, it's flexible, there are many options:
1. case with USB
2. case with USB+AUDIO
3. case with USB+AUDIO+FIREWIRE
4. case with no I/O ports.

Seems to me that you should email the vendor(s) to confirm, Lilla.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:38 pm 
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MikeC, good idea to write to Ever Case. I'm curious as to what email address you used because I tried to email them at the email address given on their site for EVER CASE USA, but it came back as no such address.

Anyway, I emailed Newegg as you suggest and asked for clarification on E4252-AB (USB or not), and asked them to clarify this on the web site. I also asked them if they had this same case with a 12cm fan in rear, and told them this was indicated by -19 in the manufacturers product code. So now we will see if I get a reply.

Food for thought. I noticed that on their Help page there is a link titled "What else would you like us to carry". Maybe silentpcreview.com should request that they add E4252-19 and E4252B-19 with xyz bundled options (picked from Ever Case 4252 parts list). Or, maybe a letter to NewEgg purchasing suggesting that since E4252 models are now available with 12cm option at same cost, that they should stock these instead. Just a thought.

Lilla


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:31 am 
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I received this email reply from Newegg, very prompt reply, I wrote late last. I asked if Ever Case ECE4252-AB here has USB. The question is because text (click on More... link) and pictures make no mention of front USB, yet a number of buyers left comments like front USB ports are very handy, etc...

...quote...

We do not indicate on our website if the item does or does not come with any USB ports since the manufacture can send them with or without. The manufacture has not garuanteed us that the item will have USB ports.

As for the case you have requested [model that accepts 12cm rear fan]. All decisions regarding our inventory selection is determined by our marketing and purchasing departments. If you'd like to submit a product suggestion to them directly, please visit NewEgg.com and click on the YOUR IDEAS box on the left-side of our home page.

...end quote...

I wrote another email today asking about ECE4252-PCThere I asked if it has 12cm rear fan as text (click the More... link) says it has 12cm fan, but picture shows 8cm fan in rear, and buyers comments make no mention of about the new 12cm rear fan, and it's seems to me that someone would mention it. I'll let you know what they say.

Lilla


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 Post subject: Re: Here's my plan, it is based upon ECE4252, need your advi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:08 pm 
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Lilla wrote:
This wil be my first build.

Case: Ever Case ECE4252-PCT, side duct, 2 USB front, 120mm fan rear, 300W PSU here
PSU: Seasonic Super Silencer 400W, SS-400AGX (retail) here
Vibration Dampening Kits: Vantec VDK-PSU, Vantec VDK-120
fan control: Zalman Fanmate 1 on each fan

Cards:
Video: Matrox G550 (retail)
Sound: Creative Labs LS Audigy ?
SCSI for scanner
Modem for internet

Motherboard: Intel D875PBZ, Retail BOXD985PBZLK
Memory: Crucial 512MB 2x256 DDR SDRAM 400MHz memory
CPU: Intel 2.4GHz 800 FSB 512K HT (retail)
CPU Cooler: Zalman CNPS7000A-alcu (retail)here



Lilla,

I just built a system with specs very similar to yours.

I was actually planning on posting my experiences with the 4252 to its own thread, but I'll post them here.

I ordered E4252-PCT from NewEgg about a month and a half ago. About 4-5 business days later I received the case via Fed Ex. The case I received was so WARPED that the side panel wouldn't shut. I had to get an RMA and return it.

The second case I received (which is the one I built in) didn't have any obvious defects. However, there was a big "hidden" defect that didn't make itself apparent until after I had completed building the system.

The hard drive cage fit really loose. Once everything was up and running, this caused a really bad vibration that resulted in a high pitched audible hum based on the hard drive's idle state. I spent literally hours messing with this and figuring out the problem. I managed to eliminate the vibration and the hum by using long nose pliers on the left top of the drive cage attachment mechanism. I got it to fit tightly enough that the hum stopped. The side effect of this, however, was an intensification of the drive's seek noise. Needless to say this was extremely frustrating. I was building the system for someone else and was already a day or so past when I initially told them I'd be finished (due to the wait for the second case). If I'd had the time, I would have pulled everything out and made New Egg replace the case when I first noticed the hum.

Ultimately, I lucked out because the drive was a Seagate Barracuda V with AAM, so I was able to use the Hitachi Feature Tool to put it in quiet mode. However, quiet mode without that mechanical coupling amplification of seek noise would have been quieter than what I ended up with.

The reason I chose the 4252 in the first place was based on information I obtained on this site. Now, to be fair, I did notice that the recommended cases section of this site does make slight mention about quality issues by stating "Modest mid-tower features solid if not top class construction". But I sense you're like me in your choice, you're looking at that "Airflow 8, Noise 7" recommendation and saying to yourself "hmm, this looks like the best 'recommended' case. In my situation, the shoddy quality created something more like a noise=4-5, which totally negated any benefit from the front bezel design. Additionally, if you look closely at the pictures of the 4252's on New Egg, you're not getting the kind of drive cage like you see in the Stealth Review that uses the 4252. They changed the design. If you use the optional grommets to mount your drives (which are easy to get, just CALL Evercase USA - 408-894-9003 - they never responded to any of my email but are super great to deal with on the phone) you have to actually bend the regular metal drive mounting mechanisms out of the way in order for the metal not to come into contact with the hard drive.

I have another system I need to build now. Needless to say, I'm not going to do it in a 4252, regardless of whether they incorporate 120mm fans or not. I didn't originally pick the 4252 to save money ($39 for a case with a power supply - which by the way I replaced with a Seasonic Super Silencer 400). I chose it to build the quietest PC I could.

Here are the cases I'm researching right now for my next build (which again will have components very similar to yours):

Coolcases D8000
http://www.coolcases.com/

Also see SPCR here:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.p ... =78&page=1

Antec SLK3700BQE
http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_en ... dID=93703#

There's also a review by Ralf on SPCR on the SLK3700BQE

Acousti Products C6607B
http://www.acoustiproducts.com/en/futureproducts.asp

This case is vapor ware right now. (Does that apply to hardware :D )
It's supposed to come out this month, but that remains to be seen.

It looks like you want a beige case. If I were you, I'd get the D8000 from Coolcases. My only hesitation is that the black D8000 has some blue buttons on it and I'd prefer solid black. But the beige has beige buttons and only a couple of black highlights which looks pretty clean. The other option I'd consider is seeing if the C6607A comes out this month (although I see that as a long shot since they've pushed back the release date before).

I don't want to sound like I'm badmouthing Evercase. I'm not. Like I said, Evercase USA was super great to deal with on the phone when I ordered the rubber grommets for hard drive mounting. But the 4252 is just not up to snuff. It's not a rip off, but look, for the case without PSU, you pay what $24-29 depending on the color, at New Egg. For a $30 case it's great, an excellent deal. But I wasn't looking for a $30 case. I was looking for a QUIET case! And the poor quality of the 4252 inhibited my ability to build a quiet pc.

By the way, all the cases I recommended to you have the ability to mount 120mm fans in front and in back. The only gotcha is that the front fan can't be more than 25mm thick (which eliminates the quiet Panaflo 120mm).

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Here's my plan, it is based upon ECE4252, need your advi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:28 pm
Posts: 28
Lilla wrote:

Case: Ever Case ECE4252-PCT, side duct, 2 USB front, 120mm fan rear, 300W PSU here
PSU: Seasonic Super Silencer 400W, SS-400AGX (retail) here
Vibration Dampening Kits: Vantec VDK-PSU, Vantec VDK-120
fan control: Zalman Fanmate 1 on each fan

Cards:
Video: Matrox G550 (retail)
Sound: Creative Labs LS Audigy ?
SCSI for scanner
Modem for internet

Motherboard: Intel D875PBZ, Retail BOXD985PBZLK
Memory: Crucial 512MB 2x256 DDR SDRAM 400MHz memory
CPU: Intel 2.4GHz 800 FSB 512K HT (retail)
CPU Cooler: Zalman CNPS7000A-alcu (retail)here



Lilla,

Just a couple of afterthoughts. If you do wind up building in the ECE4252-PCT, you'll probably want to maintain negative pressure. Otherwise, you're sort of defeating the purpose of the duct. One rear case fan will do this. My solution was a Panaflo L1A rear and a Panaflo L1A front, both on Fanmates. I turned the Fanmate on the front L1A all the way down and the fanmate on the rear L1A all the way up (which is still undervolted to 11 just because it's on a fanmate).

Also, I used a CNPS7000-ALCU (you don't need the 'A' version for a P4, but it looks like the price you found is as low as I paid anyway. The 'A' doesn't hurt anything, you'll just have some extraneous brackets included in your package) with the included Fanmate turned all the way down.

The 4252 comes with METAL motherboard standoffs. Some are built into the case (raised areas for motherboard screws to go into), a few you have to screw a standard metal motherboard standoff in (which is included in the hardware package with the case). The 4252 comes with an ample package of screws, standoffs, etc. The only additional hardware you may need is for fan mounting if you use a front case fan. Or front and rear if you use fan isolators.

Ditch the stock rear case fan. Don't listen to it, don't try to undervolt it, just remove it before you start building. The screws might be useful if you don't use isolators but it's ludicrous for you to buy a Seasonic 400 if you're going to use that stock case fan.

Additionally, you'll want to turn "Fan Control" off in that Intel motherboard's BIOS. Fan speeds in the system you're talking about will be controlled completely by the Fan mates.

Now, I know this is off-topic for quiet pc's, but you do know that you can get of version of that motherboard with built-in LAN right? Have you considered cable modem or DSL instead of dial up? Even if you don't have broadband now, you may want to make sure that you get the version of that motherboard with the LAN (you can disable it easily in the BIOS) for when you DO decide to get off of the dialup.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:28 pm 
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Posts: 134
JC, I'm sorry to hear about the quality problems you experienced with this case. I'm sure it was frustrating, and for your troubles you deserve a nice AcousticCase for you next build :wink:

I'm glad that you posted the troublesome details for the rest of us to consider, it will help me and others make an informed decision.

But still, when all is considered, and as you point out, for those (include me here) who want to build a nice system but need to keep the costs down, the Ever Case E4252 is hard to beat, and the trade off is that we need to be willing to deal with some imperfection and perhaps an RMA.

A couple of questions for you:

Q: Did the case you got (the -PCT) have an 120mm fan space in the rear as it states on their? It sounds like it had the 80mm, but I just want to be clear on this since it has been the subject of must discussion and even NewEgg cannot provide an answer.

Q: What was the cost (with shipping) of buying the "HDD shock proof kit" from Ever Case? Does the kit include anything other than 8 rubber grommets?

For this I assume then that I could buy other accessories from them. They have a list on their web site, they offer side duct, a clear side panel, and a front bay with ports for 2USB2.0/Audio/Firewire, and more.

p.s. The motherboad (BOXD875PBZLK) I'm getting does have the Gigabit LAN (I just checked with pricewatch.com to be sure) so I'll be all set when broadband comes my way.

JC, it is wonderful to get detailed information from someone that has actually used this case. You have contributed greatly to the growing thread of knowledge about E4252.

Lilla


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:28 pm
Posts: 28
Lilla wrote:
JC, I'm sorry to hear about the quality problems you experienced with this case. I'm sure it was frustrating, and for your troubles you deserve a nice AcousticCase for you next build :wink:

I'm glad that you posted the troublesome details for the rest of us to consider, it will help me and others make an informed decision.

But still, when all is considered, and as you point out, for those (include me here) who want to build a nice system but need to keep the costs down, the Ever Case E4252 is hard to beat, and the trade off is that we need to be willing to deal with some imperfection and perhaps an RMA.

A couple of questions for you:

Q: Did the case you got (the -PCT) have an 120mm fan space in the rear as it states on their? It sounds like it had the 80mm, but I just want to be clear on this since it has been the subject of must discussion and even NewEgg cannot provide an answer.

Q: What was the cost (with shipping) of buying the "HDD shock proof kit" from Ever Case? Does the kit include anything other than 8 rubber grommets?

For this I assume then that I could buy other accessories from them. They have a list on their web site, they offer side duct, a clear side panel, and a front bay with ports for 2USB2.0/Audio/Firewire, and more.

p.s. The motherboad (BOXD875PBZLK) I'm getting does have the Gigabit LAN (I just checked with pricewatch.com to be sure) so I'll be all set when broadband comes my way.

JC, it is wonderful to get detailed information from someone that has actually used this case. You have contributed greatly to the growing thread of knowledge about E4252.

Lilla


1. My case had an 80mm fan space in the rear along with an 80mm stock case fan. I just looked at the hardcopy I printed from New Egg when I ordered the case a month and a half ago - it said 120mm fan. This is a mistake on the New Egg site.

2. 1 Kit $1.75 + 6.02 shipping. 8 grommets, 8 long hard drive screws, 8 thin metal disks to block em interference - enough to mount two hard drives. Instructions for using the grommets actually comes with the case itself.

Call them at the number I posted previously. They'll email you a price list of all the optional parts they have available. The guy I talked to had it emailed to me before I got off the phone with him.

Quick Suggestion - Get 2 each of the following:

-Panaflo L1A with 3pin to motherboard fan tail ($7.50 each)

http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/fan-19.html

-FanMate ($6.00 each)

http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/bus-08.html

-3 pin extension cable ($2.50 each)

http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/cab-07.html

The extension cables let you be a lot more flexible about where in your case you position the Fanmates (which have fairly short cables on them)

Turn OFF fan control in your Intel BIOS and fine tune the fan speeds with the fan mates to suite your taste.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 5:02 pm
Posts: 134
JC, thanks for the detailed answered. It helps a bunch.

Thanks for the information on the 120mm fan error. I wrote to NewEgg and asked them to correct the error on their web site. They wrote back and said they would forward it to the department in charge of make such changes. Hopefully, it will get corrected.

I am ordering some stuff from SVC.com, this includes two 80mm "L1A" fans as shown here

I wasn't sure if I needed to order extension cables to go with them or not, but based upon your feedback I will order two extension cables to go with them. I appreciate that you pointed this out to me. There are so many details, and for a newbie that has not built before you just don't know what you don't know.

P.S. That AcoustiCase is seems especially nice, any idea what the price will be? Probably more than I want to spend, but I can dream. It is the nicest case I have seen to date.

Thanks, Lilla


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 10:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:05 am
Posts: 278
Location: Tennessee
For what its worth, I've built over 30 computers using the EverCase 4252 case (cheap $26 version). None of the ones I have ever bought from Newegg, were ever damaged or missing any parts. They have always been really good cases, and with a little modding, they are great for quiet computing.

My short list of mods:

- Remove the side fan assemble and seal the hole in the side panel.
- Cut out the fan grill in front and back, for greater airflow and lower noise.
- Buy some cheap rubber grommets from Hardware store and make screwstands for hard drive mounting.
- Sometimes, I use asphalt roofing tape and foam, for additional noise control.

P.S. This case DOES have front mounted USB ports. Some of the more expensive models have firewire or sound ports, in addition to the USB. The cheap case only has front USB. Every one I have ever ordered has come with two hard drive racks, supporting up to four hard drives.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 1:29 am 
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Posts: 134
cmcquistion, 30 cases with no problems. This is good. I needed to hear that to counter the negative report I just read in another thread. I hope I have the same experience as you and get a good E4252.

Chris, I enjoyed your article on building with the E4252, I especially enjoyed your grommet purchasing tip and homemade shoulder screw. Good instructions and nice pictures. You have provided a great resource for those of us that are planning to build with this case.

"Step-by-Step: Building a Quiet PC From The Ground Up - by Chris McQuistion - 8/23/02". Chris's article is based upon the E4252.

I noticed that the HDD cage in your article looks quite different than the HDD cage shown in NewEgg's pictures of the E4252 (all models).

I wonder if the current cases ship with the HDD cage shown in the pictures on NewEgg (v. the one shown in your article)? The HDD cage shown on NewEgg is the same shown in the review of the E4252 below

Review: STEALTH XP2000+ PC by ARM Systems - November 27, 2002 -- by Mike Chin. This system is based upon the E4252 case.

I wonder if the grommets that JC bought from Ever Case are the plain hardware type grommet that you show in your article, or if they are the fancy soft blue E.A.R. grommet sold by McMaster?

Lilla


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 8:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:05 am
Posts: 278
Location: Tennessee
Yeah, they did a slight redesign of the hard drive cage. All the 4252's I've ordered in the past couple months have had the new design (the design you can see in my article.) They work exactly the same as the old design, but it is now much easier to insert the grommets. You insert the grommets in the middle, large hole, then slide them over to the corners.

Here's a pic of the old design (from MikeC's review):

Image

Here's a pic of the new design (from my article):

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 11:54 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 5:02 pm
Posts: 134
cmcquistion, thanks a bunch for clarifying that the cage in your article is the new style (and not the other way around). NewEgg pictures are still showing the old style HDD cages.

Observation: the date on your article is Aug 2002, yet your pictures shows new HDD cage released in last couple of months? So apparently you updated the pictures in your article. Now that I know that I'll be getting the same HDD cage as in your article, I think I'm going to try doing it your way.

I'm curious to know whether Ever Case HDD shock proof kit includes the softer bigger E.A.R. grommets, or the same hardware store grommets like you use in your article. Any idea?

Thanks, Lilla


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