Can someone check this for me?

ONEshot · Post by **ONEshot** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:25 am

Alright after seeing Edward Ng's Sigma III, I have finally decided on what I'm going to do: copy his computer as closely as possible

.

I'm not going to change the core of the computer, so here's what it is right now (Not Changing These Items):

Mobo: MSI 875p Neo
Processor: P4 2.66 (no overclocking for me)
RAM: 512 pc2100 ddr (generic somethingrather)
Harddrive: 80 gig western digital
Video Card: ATI 9500 pro
Sound Card: SoundBlaster 5.1
DVD-Rom: Sony something
DVD-RW: Lite-On DVD+R/RW

Right now I have some generic manilla case with a generic 300W (I think...) PSU.

Here are the plans: Get the Inwin case with the duct, get an 80mm silent fan (I'm deciding between the panaflo L1As and the Papsts), get one of Mike's modded 300W seasonic PSUs, get the Thermalright heatsink (someone tell me which one please, I think the slk-800 will do, it's got good price and seems to do the job), do something about the 9500 pro fan, and plug up all the other airholes in the computer.

Here's what I need help with: Which 80mm fan is best, is Mike's modded seasonic the best way for me to go, what should I do about my 9500pro, and which heatsink should I go with?

Can y'all make sure that my components are alright and everything? Thanks a bunch!

EDIT: also have to do something about the mobo chipset fan... any suggestions?

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:26 am

ONEshot wrote:Alright after seeing Edward Ng's Sigma III, I have finally decided on what I'm going to do: copy his computer as closely as possible .

Instead of copying his system why not upgrade/change in areas that will give you lower noise and much better performance?

I'd suggest:

ONEshot wrote:I'm not going to change the core of the computer, so here's what it is right now (Not Changing These Items):

Mobo: MSI 875p Neo

Asus P4C800E-Deluxe, or Intel 875PBZ. Either choice gives you the best quality 875 Intel board you can buy. Neither have active NB cooling. The Asus has tons of features, is stable and OC's like a mofo. The Intel is fast and stable with less features and no OCing (well 4%, but that doesn't really count).

ONEshot wrote:Processor: P4 2.66 (no overclocking for me)

Definitely go with one of the newer 800MHz, hyperthreading CPUs like a 2.8C or a 3.0. Much better performance than the 2.66 which only runs at 533MHz and has been discontinued for a while anyway.

A Thermalright SLK947 or SP-94, or a Zalman 7000AlCu will be nice heatsinks for either of those CPUs. I'd probably go with the Zalman 'cause it performs well, is fairly cheap and already comes with a fan.

ONEshot wrote:RAM: 512 pc2100 ddr (generic somethingrather)

NO! Get yourself 2 x 256MB sticks of some PC3200 memory. You'll be massively crippling the performance of any 533MHZ or 800MHz P4 by using PC2100 memory. It's way too slow for the P4 CPU that craves fast memory. And don't get generic, it's too problematical. At least get Crucial or one of the "value lines" by the big manufacturers. Much safer.

ONEshot wrote:Harddrive: 80 gig western digital

NO! You'll be sorry! They're too noisy and you'll have to deal with it. Get yourself a Samsung Spinpoint or Seagate 7200.7 drive.

ONEshot wrote:Video Card: ATI 9500 pro

Not to be too picky but I'd probably choose the cooler-running 9600Pro.

ONEshot wrote:DVD-RW: Lite-On DVD+R/RW

Waay too noisy. Hit the "Storage" forums and look for some of the quieter DVDrw drives. I know the Plextor 708 is pretty quiet but there's probably others that can beat it.

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:37 am

Ralf, I think Oneshot already has those components and wants advice only on the quieting side. About which:

Panaflo L1As are a fine choice and cheap - a good fam to try first. As Ralf says, the WD drive is pretty loud, so the case fan probably won't be your main source of noise.

For the 9500 Pro, there are 2 main choices: Zalman ZM-80 or Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer. The AC unit would be a great choice for this system.

Everything else looks okay.

Post by **MikeC** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:23 am

If the goal is to create a low noise PC, what's the point of including a bunch of noisy components? Every chef knows you must start with good ingredients. I agree with Ralf Hutter: Not only is this system going to be very hard to quiet, it is not even going to be that good a performer.

peteamer · Post by **peteamer** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:25 am

I'm not going to change the core of the computer, so here's what it is right now (Not Changing These Items):

I think ONEshot is saying he already has these components and isn't going to change them.

That he's only playing with case/filtering and some other stuff at the moment.

In which case *pun intended... but crap

* HammerSandwich is going down the right track.

Pete

ONEshot · Post by **ONEshot** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:41 am

I think peteamer and hammersandwich got it right.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not changing those items. This is my current setup, as in I already have these parts and I don't wanna spend money on more superfluous items that I don't really need. So the motherboard, CPU, RAM, videocard, and harddrive are gonna stay.

And if you look at the Sigma III, you'll find that there is no CPU fan, there is a duct, which is what I plan to use on my Thermalright. He's also got the harddrive enclosure that I was planning on using as well.
And about the active NB fan, I was thinking of just replacing that with a Zalman northbridge passive cooler, so I don't think that replacing the mobo will help make it silent. Also, the CPU (the actual chip type) and the RAM dont have anything to do with quieting the computer anyways, right?

So about the one 80mm case fan, I'm looking towards the Panaflos based on Hammer's recomendation, and I'm still wondering about the right PSU for the money. And also if the heatsink for this passively cooled CPU should be the Zalman 7000 with the fan removed or the slk-800. The sp-94 is just too expensive.

Post by **MikeC** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:02 pm

Trust me -- the WD needs to go. If you manage to silence the rest, its noise will stand out like a car alarm on a suburban lane.

bomba · Post by **bomba** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:05 pm

MikeC wrote:Trust me -- the WD needs to go. If you manage to silence the rest, its noise will stand out like a car alarm on a suburban lane.

As an owner of a WD caviar SE 120GB that has been banished to use as an external USB2.0 backup drive, I couldn't agree more. Not just the seeks, but a constant idle whine.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:04 pm

Good evening, everyone.

ONEshot, before I give you any tips, I need to just clarify; you mean Sigma One, no? I guessed that since you mentioned the duct, but since you are tackling a P4 2.6, I was confused as to if you're thinking of doing something based on Alpha Three...

Anyhow I would say you may be able to get away with this whole thing but you will simply have to make two changes...

1) As stated, the Western Digital drive simply will not, nay... it cannot do. I'm recommending this to help you, not because of my antiWD sentiments, but because if the rest of the system becomes as quiet as my Sigma One, the WD will literally drive you nuts. It's for your own good to use a better drive.

2) The SLK800 will not do the job unless you plan to mount some sort of fan on it, like a 92mm AcoustiFan; on Alpha Three, I have the SP-94 with an AF92CT and I'm getting idle temps of about 32C and load temps of 49C, and that is a P4 2.6C at 3.0GHz. For a stock 2.6, at stock voltage, you probably cannot get away with even an SP-94 without at least an 80mm Panaflow L1A, and you most definitely cannot rely on just the duct to cool the P4 2.6 with an SLK800, unfortunate as it is. An SP-94 is the way you have to go if you will even dare to do duct-only (or a Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu/Cu), but even that's tough with a P4 2.6; remember, I'm running a 2.0 @ 2.28, not a 2.6, and my temps are 30C idle and 48C load, and my HDD makes negligible heat, as does my video card; you will be running a hotter video card and way way way hotter hard drive, as well. I seriously recommend using some slow active cooling on the CPU.

BTW my InWin V523G is microATX only, while your specified mainboard is standard ATX; don't worry, as InWin also makes standard ATX towers with the Intel 3G-spec intake duct, but they're different model number than V523G.

These are my tips to you, if you plan to get successful with the project. If you look through the whole gallery thread on Sigma One, you will see the whole progression of the thing, and I'm just trying to help you avoid doing it in 40 steps like I did; lets say, that you can learn from my mistakes, instead of making them all over.

I agree with HammerSandwich that installing a ZM80C-HP or Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer will work fine; I used to have a softmodded 9500 128MB card running at 9700 Pro with the ZM80A-HP and a single short-voltaged TMD fan.

Good luck, and let me know how it goes; continue to ask us questions if you need help; we're here for you!

-Ed

PS btw...

WELCOME TO SPCR!!!

Oh yes and one more thing, in regards to the chipset cooling, I'm using a Swiftech MCX-159 northbridge cooler without the fan; it "works good."

More blazin' hot EDIT action: added links to ATX midtowers with Intel 3G Duct:

White/grey InWin midtower

Much better looking black/silver midtower case made off the same chassis as the previous one, but for $18 more

$28 Beige/silver midtower with 3G duct by Athenatech

Same thing but in black and silver, $3 more (Because, as Ralf once pointed out, Dan from Dan's Letters says black computers are faster!)

Looks exactly the same as last, but costs $2 more, and I have no idea why

Far less ho-hum grey midtower from Athenatech with 3G duct, $35

Much more fancy-shmancy charcoal black midtower from Athenatech, also $35

Seems to be the same; same price too

Another Athenatech, in black and silver, less garish design with 4 front USB ports; their most expensive 3G-ducted model at $36.50 (undercutting all InWin models with the 3G duct)

ONEshot · Post by **ONEshot** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:44 pm

Okay so I've ditched the idea about the duct-only, in my reading of Edward's website, I mixed up processors blah.

So I'm thinking, what if I still get a ducted case, except run a Zalman C7000AL-CU with the fan? It would still be drawing cool air from the outside therefore the fan speed would go down anyways.

Then for the power supply, I would be ducting it to the outside also, thereby making the PSU silent. That leaves the only fan being the 120MM exhaust fan.

About the video card: The Arctic or the Zalman? It seems to me as though the Arctic would be louder since it has a fan, yet people still recommend it. Why?

After even MORE thinking, I've decided to consider getting a SpinPoint, but if I do get a new harddrive, it will only be because it is the LAST thing in my system to get fixed. I doubt I will become so sensitive that I will notice the tiny sound of the harddrive.

Thanks for your help, you have no idea how much I appreciate it!

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:59 pm

I think it depends on your sensitivity to different frequencies of sound. Many people, such as myself, are extremely sensitive to higher frequency sounds (people who wish for a quick death when the teacher scratches the board with the chalk, raise their hands!). The sound of 7200rpm drives can easily reach into the upper registers that don't bother some people and yet drive others completely nuts.

The reason why people tend to recommend the Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer over Zalman's ZM80C-HP is because the VGA Silencer not only cools the video card, but it also cools your system, because it exhausts the heat from the video card straight out instead of recycling it within the system, or in the case of using the ZM80C-HP passively, simply radiating it into the case itself. A little exhaust action can go a long way, particularly with really hot things like modern VPUs (Radeons) and GPUs (GeForces).

The CNPS7000A-AlCu is an extremely good choice, but like any other active CPU cooler, you still need to think about venting out the heat it takes off the CPU, just like the case with the ZM80C-HP. The obvious advantage of trying to use passive duct cooling on a CPU is that you're pulling cold air directly onto the heatsink, wicking heat off, and then pulling that hot air right out. With a fan on the heatsink swirling around, this will pull in more cold air, yes, but it will also have the effect of tossing the heated air out in all directions from the sink, so if your case doesn't have a good flow pattern set, it will basically cause a warmer overall case temp.

Every system has its own air flow signature; I think many of us SPCRers sign our machines as distinctly as we are distinct from each other.

We've turned quiet cooling into an art, that's for sure.

-Ed

ONEshot · Post by **ONEshot** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:45 pm

Ah I understaaaaand... Okay. So I've moved away from the duct as a whole. So now my airflow will be as follows: Sucks in from the front due to the negative pressure in the case, air will blow past my harddrive, up past my CPU HSF and out through either the rear-exhaust 120mm or my Mike's Seasonic.

But what about the SOUND of the Arctic versus the Zalman? I understand that the Zalman might raise the case a few degrees... but at the price of a few decibels?...

Thanks.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:49 pm

With a Caviar, that VGA Silencer might as well be negligible.

ONEshot · Post by **ONEshot** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:43 pm

Is it really that bad? I mean assuming that I DO get a SpinPoint, then what about the noise of the VGA Silencer?

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:55 pm

I don't think it would be that bad; I mean you'd have to turn it almost completely off to work, "only," as well as the Zalman.

After all, keep in mind that the VGA Silencer shrugs off its heat right out; the Zalman has to deal with its own heat, too.

In other words, the Zalman will not only heat up the case air, but it has to use the same warm air to do more cooling, whereas the VGA Silencer is more likely to be working with cooler source air.

-Ed

ONEshot · Post by **ONEshot** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:35 pm

Is the fan speed of the Arctic able to be controlled by the cooler itself? Or do I have to use a Zalman/other fan controller and some modding?

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:47 pm

It has a low setting and a high setting.

ONEshot · Post by **ONEshot** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:29 pm

I just can't get over this duct idea, it is such a great idea.
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=9918

This guy seems to have an OCed 2.2 up to a 2.66 and it runs perfectly fine... even cooler than my setup right now, which worries me a little.

Why does his work but mine wouldnt?

Can someone check this for me?

Can someone check this for me?

Re: Can someone check this for me?