Standby shuts off all on Dell, can a self-built do this?

NetTechie · Post by **NetTechie** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:15 am

Maybe I'm askin a question everyone knows the answer to. Forgive me if so. But just recently I discovered my (barrowed) Dell shuts completely off when I put it in standby. And I mean.... hdd off, psu fan off, cpu fan off, monitor off, and keyboard 'Num Lock' lead on. The shutdown process takes about 5 seconds or less. The restart process is initiated by moving the mouse, and enters back into windows where I left it, in under 5 seconds also. This I find to be a really nifty feature!!! I never use standby, because on my other computers all it did was shut off the monitor (does that anyway after 15 minutes). What makes this happen on the Dell? Does this have a name? It completely shuts EVERYTHING off... psu included. How does it do this? Do any home-build motherboards support this? Do they all, and this is common nowadays? (I haven't really worked on computer hardware much since 2000). Will the Abit NF7-S I'm lookin at buying have this? I love it! It's so great... almost instant silence, yet I can get back to where I was with all my browser windows open, progs open, etc, in about 5 seconds (no lengthy startup). I sure hope it's on the NF7-S v2.0...!

PhilgB · Post by **PhilgB** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:33 am

http://dictionary.reference.com/

You need to go into your bios (i forget which section) and change the standby from S1 to S3.

NetTechie · Post by **NetTechie** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:36 am

PhilgB wrote:http://dictionary.reference.com/

You need to go into your bios (i forget which section) and change the standby from S1 to S3.

Ok, gonna try it asap on one of my computers.

What's the point of the dictionary link btw? Did I misspell something?

PhilgB · Post by **PhilgB** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:37 am

Hehe, yeah, just barrowed (borrowed)

NetTechie · Post by **NetTechie** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:45 am

PhilgB wrote:Hehe, yeah, just barrowed (borrowed)

Guess I can't edit and hide it now.

Hey, I checked, my one system doesn't even have the option of S1 or anything. The other has S1 (POS) selected, and when I go in to change it, that's the only setting you can sellect. Is this a problem of the past? Do all new motherboards have S3 available? In particular, the Abit NF7-S and the AN7?

*edit*
http://www.abit-usa.com/downloads/bios/ ... &model=124

Fix the problem that systems can not detect USB Drvice under WinME resume from S3,S4 mode, and lead to usb connector failed.

Ok... so NF7-S 2.0 has it then I guess.

What is S4? Is it better?

*edit2*
Quick search of the forums resulted in this:

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... ghlight=s4

Jan Kivar wrote:S1 is "Stand-by", S3 is "Suspend-to-RAM". Hibernate is S4, IIRC

IIRC? What? How does S4 work in plain english?

Is there a good article somewhere discussing these? Thanks.

streety · Post by **streety** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:48 am

IIRC = if i remember correctly

I'm not sure what S4 does myself so this will have to be the limit of my help.

Bean · Post by **Bean** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:43 am

To quote the Passmark (see link I've provided below): "ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) is an industry wide standard that defines a power management and configuration mechanism for hardware and operating systems. ACPI defines six discrete power states. Lower states consume more power, but have a smaller latency on wake up.
Working
The system is fully on. Some devices may independently conserve power if there usage falls below a certain threshold.
Sleeping
The system seems as though it’s shut down. Power consumption is reduced to one of the three sleep levels (see below). The lower the level, the more power that is conserved, but the longer it takes for the system to wake. Mouse movement or key presses will usually wake the system.
Soft Off or Hibernate
The system appears to be off. Power consumption is very low. For a hibernate, the operating system context is saved out to disk and no longer exists in RAM. Wake up usually results in hardware boot, but not software boot.
Mechanical Off
No power consumption. A full reboot will be required to start up the system.
S0 – Working
S1 – Sleeping
S2 – Sleeping
S3 – Sleeping
S4 – Hibernate
S5 – Off
PassMark Sleeper "Sleeper is a small utility program developed by PassMark Software to help test the ability of PC systems to enter and recover from sleep and hibernation." Sounds cool but I never tried this software.

nutball · Post by **nutball** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:45 am

AFAIK hibernate is suspend to disc.

S3(STR) absolutely positivvely rocks! Instant off, instant-on, apps. stay in memory when the machine is "off", only have to touch the power button when I want to move the PC. The business!

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:16 am

NetTechie wrote:
Jan Kivar wrote:S1 is "Stand-by", S3 is "Suspend-to-RAM". Hibernate is S4, IIRC
IIRC? What? How does S4 work in plain english? Is there a good article somewhere discussing these? Thanks.

In S1 state CPU is in deep sleep, HDs have stopped (by software request), they are still powered, as is everything else. S1 is not so useful, as the PSU is still running, and so are the fans. The only exception is for fans attached to the motherboard; they usually stop when S1 state is entered.

S2 does not exist, at least not at the moment.

S3 is Suspend-To-RAM (or STR). In this state everything is stopped, except system memory is in slow refresh. It is powered by +5VSB, which is applied to the motherboard whenever the computer is plugged to the mains (the PSU switch must be on "I" position, of course). This means that if You pull the plug while the computer is on S3 state, the contents of the memory is lost, and next time the computer will boot as it would have been powered off.

S4 is hibernate, or Suspend-To-Disk. When the computer enters S4 state, it basically does everything that S3 mode does, but in the end memory is dumped on the HD. After this the computer is totally powered off (except that +5VSB is still on). You can safely pull the plug and move the computer.

When You exit S4 state (=start the computer again), the computer does the usual BIOS POST routines, then reads the memory back from the disk, and after this all is like in S3 startup (perhaps VGA wakeup if set in BIOS).

It's important to notice that BIOS/POST is only done when exiting from S4, not from S3. This means that if one uses RAID, the computer does not show the RAID boot ROM (as it's not necessary).

The next thing is a bit HC: One can actually add HDs (I've done it by using mobile racks) when the computer is in S3/S4. Note that one can't remove them in S3/S4, because one can't "eject/unmount" them from Windows. A proper shutdown is required to remove the disks. Adding disk this way produces a slight difference between S3/S4: As BIOS is ran on S4 exit, the drive is then the maximum transfer rate (UDMA-4/5/6), whereas exiting from S3 means that the drive's transfer rate is MWDMA-2 at best, as it has not negotiated anything better with chipset. I'm not sure whether this still applies to the newest chipsets or not (the UDMA/MWDMA issue, that is).

Lastly, to answer on the enabling S3 state: Normally all motherboards which don't have this option in BIOS have S3 enabled. IIRC not having S1/S3 setting in BIOS is actually a recommendation from Microsoft/ACPI consortium, as changing the setting from S3 to S1 would most likely cause the system to corrupt itself. Sometimes going from S1 to S3 requires re-installation of OS, so it's best policy to check & set the BIOS settings before installing for the first time.

If You (or anyone else, for the matter) has anything else to ask on the subject, just shoot. I'll try my best.

Cheers,

Jan

flyingsherpa · Post by **flyingsherpa** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:15 am

jan,
i recently set up a system that had 3 options: S1, S1-S3, S3 just like that in the BIOS. I ended choosing S1-S3 and installing the OS. when i ask windows xp to suspend, it works just fine... everything shuts off. and it wakes up just fine too (though wiggling the mouse won't do it... i actually have to hit the power button again, which flashes on and off while in suspend).

so i have no problems, i just wonder what S1-S3 means and if it would've been better to choose just S3? anyone else see this option?

alglove · Post by **alglove** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:11 pm

flyingsherpa wrote:so i have no problems, i just wonder what S1-S3 means and if it would've been better to choose just S3? anyone else see this option?

My Epox 8RDA+ motherboard has these same options. I personally have it set to S3 only, as I was not sure what S1-S3 would do, either. From what you say, though, S1-S3 seems to work fine in your computer.

Actually, a lot of older motherboards support S1 only. My feeling is that most motherboards made since the year 2000 support S3.

I love S3. My motherboard also has the ability to power on by using a keyboard hotkey (I use Ctrl+F1), so I don't even need to lean over to press the computer's power button.

NetTechie · Post by **NetTechie** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:48 pm

Thanks Jan Kivar for your very in-depth explenation.

I'm guessing the S in S3 stands for "State" so S3 is State 3 of powersaving/shutdown or whatever.

nutball · Post by **nutball** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:53 pm

flyingsherpa wrote:jan,
i recently set up a system that had 3 options: S1, S1-S3, S3 just like that in the BIOS. I ended choosing S1-S3 and installing the OS. when i ask windows xp to suspend, it works just fine... everything shuts off. and it wakes up just fine too (though wiggling the mouse won't do it... i actually have to hit the power button again, which flashes on and off while in suspend).

so i have no problems, i just wonder what S1-S3 means and if it would've been better to choose just S3? anyone else see this option?

Yes, I have S1-S3 on my board, I have no idea what it does (I just went straight to S3(STR)).

You should check the BIOS, as that might have options to tweak what stimuli the machine responds when in S3 sleep. On my mobo (A7N8X) I also had to swap some jumpers on the board to allow the wake signal to be sent by a USB device (my keyboard).

It won't respond to my mouse -- because it's an optical mouse and the LED goes off when the machine is asleep. D'oh!!!

wim · Post by **wim** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:24 am

*!* WOW

i had no idea about this trick. took a bit of stuffing around to get it going on the a7n8x (no S3 in bios) but i just got it working properly now and I LOVE IT!
it's as good as having yer computer boot up in 3 seconds.
i don't like xp, stuck with win2k but i was always jealous how my friend's xp machine would boot up in abt 20 seconds. but this is even better .. awesome stuff

thanks all for bringing it to my attention

woohoo

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:14 am

S1/S3 setting is "let OS decide what to use". I don't know how it works exactly. IIRC even Win98SE supports S3, but unfortunately not all device drivers for Win9x support S3 state.

Waking up from S3 needs tinkering sometimes. As nutball mentioned, most newer boards have jumpers to toggle the wakeup on/off with USB ports. This is because most boards have 6 or 8 USB ports, and these need to be powered when the computer is in S3 to make the wake up possible. What makes it problematic is that ATX spec required that only 1A of power is supplied from the PSU to the motherboard at all times (the +5VSB rail). Since every two USB ports can supply up to 500 mA, selection has to be made which ports are powered in stand-by/suspend.

Most new PSUs can supply 2-2.5A to the +5VSB rail (rated values, of course). Still, if one encounters problems when waking up from S3, eliminating all unnecessary devices might help. In my computer I couldn't max one memory setting in BIOS (can't remember what it was) as waking up from S3 made the computer boot normally then.

Furthermore, some BIOSes have setting for PS/2 mouse wakeup. Normally a doubleclick of button (selectable in some boards). Keyboard is normally configurable also.

One other thing to consider is that You can set which USB devices are allowed to wake up the computer. It's under Device Manager, at one of the device's tabs. Note that this is not present in all devices; most likely only in wired devices. (My computer at work has it (USB mouse), but my home computer (USB wireless) doesn't).

Cheers,

Jan

nova · Post by **nova** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:09 pm

NetTechie wrote:Thanks Jan Kivar for your very in-depth explenation.

I'm guessing the S in S3 stands for "State" so S3 is State 3 of powersaving/shutdown or whatever.

I've just tried S3 on my NF7-S V2 it works perfectly. You can choose between S1 and S3 with the latest bios, I think you could choose between S1-S3 in earlier bios versions. I wonder why I haven't tried this before... Well I usually keep my machine running 24/7 anyway.