Noise escapes out the air vents in pc cases and dust comes in, if the vents were sealed and the whole case lined with foam the computer would be much easier to silence and keep clean.
Has anyone tried this?
One way to acomplish this, is using a fanless watercooling sytem. I would use a small centrally located radiator with an 80mm fan to cool and circulate the sealed case air. Also i would cool the CPU, GPU, and HDs directly with waterblocks. If a zalman reserator were used, i'd have to include a more powerfull pump.
Completely isolating the case would cause a huge reduction in noise and dust. Plus no grille cutting, intake modding or ventillation mods would ever have to be attempted again.
decrease noise and dust at its source; Ventilation...
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
yeah, you are. 
you have a normal wc loop, but with lots of blocks, and an additional 80mm+ rad that works the opposite of normal.
you just, like, dangle the fan + little rad in the middle of the case, to keep air moving around the mosfets etc. everything else putting out more than a few watts of heat is cooled with blocks. a pump good enough for this wouldn't even fit in a reserator though.
actually, an even better way might be to put the 80mm internal rad on a separate loop, with a little rad somewhere else to cool it off... this way would make it possible to maintain case temps fairly low, since you wouldn't have to be using the fairly warm water from the main loop. then again, you'd probably want the pump and rad fairly well isolated themselves, so you could just use a big rad + fans... but then it just becomes a derivative of "move your pc to another room". i know of at least one person on some other forum (would be ocforums or procooling or something, not a hardware site, not that that helps any) that's done this, but for cooling the loop they used copper pipe buried underground. lots easier to be quiet if you can just put a huge pump outside too.
you have a normal wc loop, but with lots of blocks, and an additional 80mm+ rad that works the opposite of normal.
you just, like, dangle the fan + little rad in the middle of the case, to keep air moving around the mosfets etc. everything else putting out more than a few watts of heat is cooled with blocks. a pump good enough for this wouldn't even fit in a reserator though.
actually, an even better way might be to put the 80mm internal rad on a separate loop, with a little rad somewhere else to cool it off... this way would make it possible to maintain case temps fairly low, since you wouldn't have to be using the fairly warm water from the main loop. then again, you'd probably want the pump and rad fairly well isolated themselves, so you could just use a big rad + fans... but then it just becomes a derivative of "move your pc to another room". i know of at least one person on some other forum (would be ocforums or procooling or something, not a hardware site, not that that helps any) that's done this, but for cooling the loop they used copper pipe buried underground. lots easier to be quiet if you can just put a huge pump outside too.
Re: decrease noise and dust at its source; Ventilation...
Nice idea if you can afford it.. but what do you plan to do about the PSU?mpteach wrote:Completely isolating the case would cause a huge reduction in noise and dust. Plus no grille cutting, intake modding or ventillation mods would ever have to be attempted again.
Having a single fan PSU would break your "no holes" criteria.. having a fanless PSU (and no case ventialtion) would make this PC a fire hazard.
Maybe you should relax your criteria and get a PSU with a 120mm fan.. if there are no major heat sources (since everything is on waterblocks) then there won't be much internal heat and the fan will run slow and quiet. I'm not sure where the case will be getting intake air from though - maybe a few vents in the base of the case.. not in the front, but in the actual floor.. seen it done somewhere around the forum here.
This isn't that wacky of an idea; Hush has been doing it for years.
Once you give all the major heat produces a way to release their heat outside the case (either through watercooling or heatpipes) the stuff that's left can use the natural internal arflow and the case shell to cool themselves.
Adding a coldplate to the loop, as straker suggests, seems like a simple way to help keep the interior cooler.
Once you give all the major heat produces a way to release their heat outside the case (either through watercooling or heatpipes) the stuff that's left can use the natural internal arflow and the case shell to cool themselves.
Adding a coldplate to the loop, as straker suggests, seems like a simple way to help keep the interior cooler.
DonP, cooling the psu wouldnt be that much of a problem, there are watercooled psu's on the market, but theyre prohibitively expensive so i would probably attach some heatpipes to the psu heatsinks and connect them to a small waterblock. IF the psu still needed a little bit of air i would move it around so that the psu recirculated case air and had no external case ventilation.
Rusty, what do you mean by coldplate?
Straker, never though about a seperate loop, though that might simplify things alot, I originally planed on using 1 loop with one big 12V pump in the bottom of the case. with a second loop i would try to use some sort of passive radiator that was easy to dust without an air can, kind of like the reserator or copper pipes buried in your cement garage floor.
Unfortunately i probably wont have time to test my concept out untill christmas, just refining my ideas now.
Rusty, what do you mean by coldplate?
Straker, never though about a seperate loop, though that might simplify things alot, I originally planed on using 1 loop with one big 12V pump in the bottom of the case. with a second loop i would try to use some sort of passive radiator that was easy to dust without an air can, kind of like the reserator or copper pipes buried in your cement garage floor.
Unfortunately i probably wont have time to test my concept out untill christmas, just refining my ideas now.
Who said anything about hard mounting HDs? Why would i hardmount my hard drives when i said i would watercool them?sthayashi wrote:All I have to say about this is watch out for those hard drives.
The SPCR review of the TNN-500A showed that even with proper cooling devices attached, hard drives should not be hard mounted.
Obviosly they would be suspended.I might even stick the watercooled hds inside thier own block of foam if they could still be heard through the sealed and damped case.
I have considered this same basic idea and I have not found any drawbacks yet. Other than the complexity of the design and contruction. With proper design it should work and be close to totally silent. But I think the design has to be carefully done and getting it right is not trival.
I would put water blocks on every thing possible - CPU, GPU, PSU, MD chip set, HDDs.... Maybe even the optical drives.
I would also isolate the optical drives from the main compartment in thier own sealed chamber. This way no sound from the main chamber can escape through the optical drive openings.
For the internal cooling loop I would use one of the 120mm radiators with a 120m fan. I would also set this up so that it pulled the air from the top of the case into the interal cooling loop and I would use internal ducts to control the air flow pattern in the case.
All interal components that have moving parts (HDD, fan..) should be very carefully isolated from the case to prevent transmittion of vibration.
The case should be built such that it is very resistant to both resonance and trasmitted sound. Concete would be ideal (but very heavy and hard to work with) but heavy MDF would be OK and would be easier to work with than concrete.
Connectors for things like USB ports, firewire ports and video ports would have to be sealed to prevent sound from escaping. Difficult but I think it can be done.
This could be made to work with a very powerful system. For example a SMP machine with a 3, 4 or 5 disk RAID system and a high end GPU could be built that was almost totally silent.
I would put water blocks on every thing possible - CPU, GPU, PSU, MD chip set, HDDs.... Maybe even the optical drives.
I would also isolate the optical drives from the main compartment in thier own sealed chamber. This way no sound from the main chamber can escape through the optical drive openings.
For the internal cooling loop I would use one of the 120mm radiators with a 120m fan. I would also set this up so that it pulled the air from the top of the case into the interal cooling loop and I would use internal ducts to control the air flow pattern in the case.
All interal components that have moving parts (HDD, fan..) should be very carefully isolated from the case to prevent transmittion of vibration.
The case should be built such that it is very resistant to both resonance and trasmitted sound. Concete would be ideal (but very heavy and hard to work with) but heavy MDF would be OK and would be easier to work with than concrete.
Connectors for things like USB ports, firewire ports and video ports would have to be sealed to prevent sound from escaping. Difficult but I think it can be done.
This could be made to work with a very powerful system. For example a SMP machine with a 3, 4 or 5 disk RAID system and a high end GPU could be built that was almost totally silent.
You didn't say, and just because you're watercooling them doesn't imply that you wouldn't hard mount them like the TNN-500 w/ the ZM-2HC1.mpteach wrote:Who said anything about hard mounting HDs? Why would i hardmount my hard drives when i said i would watercool them?
Obviosly they would be suspended.I might even stick the watercooled hds inside thier own block of foam if they could still be heard through the sealed and damped case.
It's a moot point though, since you're obviously taking that into consideration and that's what I wanted to confirm.
Quite honestly though, it'll be interesting to see whether a watercooled hard drive would transmit noise at all. My guess is probably not, but I don't know since few people around here have tried to watercool their suspended hard drives.
Sealling the otical drives off from the rest of the case is a good idea. I think the rest might be overkill. One thing you didnt think of, locating yoour radiator on the other end of your apartment/househvengel wrote:I have considered this same basic idea and I have not found any drawbacks yet. Other than the complexity of the design and contruction. With proper design it should work and be close to totally silent. But I think the design has to be carefully done and getting it right is not trival.
I would put water blocks on every thing possible - CPU, GPU, PSU, MD chip set, HDDs.... Maybe even the optical drives.
I would also isolate the optical drives from the main compartment in thier own sealed chamber. This way no sound from the main chamber can escape through the optical drive openings.
For the internal cooling loop I would use one of the 120mm radiators with a 120m fan. I would also set this up so that it pulled the air from the top of the case into the interal cooling loop and I would use internal ducts to control the air flow pattern in the case.
All interal components that have moving parts (HDD, fan..) should be very carefully isolated from the case to prevent transmittion of vibration.
The case should be built such that it is very resistant to both resonance and trasmitted sound. Concete would be ideal (but very heavy and hard to work with) but heavy MDF would be OK and would be easier to work with than concrete.
Connectors for things like USB ports, firewire ports and video ports would have to be sealed to prevent sound from escaping. Difficult but I think it can be done.
This could be made to work with a very powerful system. For example a SMP machine with a 3, 4 or 5 disk RAID system and a high end GPU could be built that was almost totally silent.
For the internal loop cooling i could use a WACC P/A Reserviour.
http://www.themodfathers.jolt.co.uk/?pa ... w&id=10357
Its similar to a reserator except that its doesnt contain an internal pump and they are made in several sizes 300mm 350mm 550mm and 1m. The 300mm version would be big enough to cool off the low wattage internal loop.
Hey i might even scrap the plans to buy a reserator and get a 1m version of this thing instead, if i overlclock i could connect 2 of them in series.
http://www.wetandchillychips.co.uk/cata ... ucts_id=90
Anyone at SPCR willing to do a reveiew on these things?
http://www.themodfathers.jolt.co.uk/?pa ... w&id=10357
Its similar to a reserator except that its doesnt contain an internal pump and they are made in several sizes 300mm 350mm 550mm and 1m. The 300mm version would be big enough to cool off the low wattage internal loop.
Hey i might even scrap the plans to buy a reserator and get a 1m version of this thing instead, if i overlclock i could connect 2 of them in series.
http://www.wetandchillychips.co.uk/cata ... ucts_id=90
Anyone at SPCR willing to do a reveiew on these things?
except you aren't gonna get any water through half a dozen waterblocks with an eheim 1048 or 1250 or whatever the Reserator uses.hvengel wrote:I was thinking that my radiator would be a passive unit the Zalman unit. So the only components that had moving parts that are exposed to the outside of the case would be the optical drives.
you'd be looking at something more like an Iwaki MD20RLT, and you may or may not want that in your case either - they're pretty amazing (quiet, strong, relatively small, nearly immortal) pumps but even their smallest are too big for anything short of a cube case. or you could just go with 2 or 3 of the Swiftech scp650s or Danner mag3s in series or something... but this all adds more heat too, with a big pump/pumps and a new fully loaded PC you'd be looking at getting rid of say 250-300W.
mpteach: not sure if you're thinking of the same thing i am, or if you meant a second loop to cool the radiator from the first, which would be great if you used a compressor or something (quiet, but wouldn't want to risk drives being much below ambient). i just meant on the second loop, you'd have a radiator inside the case and another one outside, one pump and nothing else. this way, you'd hopefully be able to easily keep the case within 5-10C of ambient, depending on how much stuff was being cooled by the loop with all the blocks on it.
not trying to go for overkill, just that it gets difficult with any ordinary wc loop and a loaded PC.
and all the old/slow computers with no fans still had/have to have ventilation holes.
Straker, brace your self, the reserator uses an eheim 300. Yes its barely powerfull enough to handles a lowflow cpu block and vga.
I was saying that hvengals idea was overkill because you need ither a small interior faned radiator to keep the case air cool and ciruculating or you need a dozen waterblocks for absolutely everything and no fans. Each will work fine on its own, and i prefer to only try the first method.
Straker i like the idea of a second independant wc loop only used for the HDs, interior Rad, pump and maybe psu all cooled by a small external rad.. There is no need for the exterior Rad to be fanned, thats why i recomended the 300mm version of the WACC P/A Reserviour, its basically a mini reserator, but for the second loop.
I was saying that hvengals idea was overkill because you need ither a small interior faned radiator to keep the case air cool and ciruculating or you need a dozen waterblocks for absolutely everything and no fans. Each will work fine on its own, and i prefer to only try the first method.
Straker i like the idea of a second independant wc loop only used for the HDs, interior Rad, pump and maybe psu all cooled by a small external rad.. There is no need for the exterior Rad to be fanned, thats why i recomended the 300mm version of the WACC P/A Reserviour, its basically a mini reserator, but for the second loop.
right right, wasn't saying that loop would need much for a rad on the outside.mpteach wrote:There is no need for the exterior Rad to be fanned, thats why i recomended the 300mm version of the WACC P/A Reserviour, its basically a mini reserator, but for the second loop.
this thing looks neat for the pretty decent price, at first i thought it'd have way too little surface area but from the first review i found it seems to work quite well.another review
http://www.viperlair.com/reviews/case_c ... ndex.shtml
some more product links
http://www.wetandchillychips.co.uk/cata ... ucts_id=88
http://www.watercoolingshop.com/catalog ... =1&sort=3a
Now that i have the external radiators all covered, Does anyone have any suggestion on other components?
If i watercool my psu by connecting the hot components to the waterbock via heatpipes i will start another thread for that and write a review.
I dont have the skill to fabricate an entire case out of MDF board, would gluing mdf sheets to the outisde of my case provide the same effect? I probably wouldn do that caue i want a nice looking case.
Whats is the best way to mount a small internal rad so that i get maximum cooling and recirculation, especially on the parts of the mobo that need it?
http://www.viperlair.com/reviews/case_c ... ndex.shtml
some more product links
http://www.wetandchillychips.co.uk/cata ... ucts_id=88
http://www.watercoolingshop.com/catalog ... =1&sort=3a
Now that i have the external radiators all covered, Does anyone have any suggestion on other components?
If i watercool my psu by connecting the hot components to the waterbock via heatpipes i will start another thread for that and write a review.
I dont have the skill to fabricate an entire case out of MDF board, would gluing mdf sheets to the outisde of my case provide the same effect? I probably wouldn do that caue i want a nice looking case.
Whats is the best way to mount a small internal rad so that i get maximum cooling and recirculation, especially on the parts of the mobo that need it?
careful with that PSU, would be funny ending up with an entire wc loop with current running through it until drives and stuff started dying. 
if you want a nice looking, big case, MountainMods sells beautiful cube cases, http://www.mountainmods.com/cases.htm
insanely expensive though, and aluminum too, although it's thick and only the drives + one fan are gonna need to be decoupled anyways.
with this sort of setup, i think a cube case of any sort would probably work best, even if it's not absolutely huge, simply because you have tons of room on both sides of the motherboard, rather than it being right up against the side of the case.
dunno why cube cases are mostly so expensive though, kind of ridiculous... you'd think at most, nice ones would cost a little less than two tower cases.
if you want a nice looking, big case, MountainMods sells beautiful cube cases, http://www.mountainmods.com/cases.htm
insanely expensive though, and aluminum too, although it's thick and only the drives + one fan are gonna need to be decoupled anyways.
with this sort of setup, i think a cube case of any sort would probably work best, even if it's not absolutely huge, simply because you have tons of room on both sides of the motherboard, rather than it being right up against the side of the case.
dunno why cube cases are mostly so expensive though, kind of ridiculous... you'd think at most, nice ones would cost a little less than two tower cases.