Thermaltake claims complete fanless system

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Reyn
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Thermaltake claims complete fanless system

Post by Reyn » Fri May 13, 2005 11:42 pm

ImageOptimized internal space and airflow
ImageVentilantion opening on top (62% opening ratio)
ImageTotally Fanless thermal system validated
(Fanless CPU/ VGA cooler, fanless PSU, fanless chassis are supported and tested by Thermaltake.)


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The setup is using Thermaltake Fanless103 fanless heatsink + schooner VGA cooler + Fanless 350w PSU. Thermaltake claims this setup is validated as in they have tested it and it works. What do you guys think?

Qwertyiopisme
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Post by Qwertyiopisme » Sat May 14, 2005 12:08 am

Having a completely fanless system is nothing particular, but one must specify the heat output of the things in question, as that is what will make or break the whole machine. I doubt they are using very high power stuff in that. Maybe a vanilla 9600, a 3000+ winnie/venice, and other lower power stuff. On second thought I actually doubt they would have those components, seeing as how this is thermaltake...

andywww
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Post by andywww » Sat May 14, 2005 1:59 am

can you post a link? :) curious

Reyn
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Post by Reyn » Sat May 14, 2005 3:14 am

here...

http://www.thermaltake.com/xasercase/ka ... 000swa.htm

scroll to the middle of the page

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StarfishChris
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Post by StarfishChris » Sat May 14, 2005 3:50 am

I wouldn't trust even a 9600 and 3000+ to be completely fanless. Any reviews yet?

EvoFire
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Post by EvoFire » Sat May 14, 2005 10:55 am

Video cards can probably be cooled fanless as there are X800XL, 6600GT, and 6800's out there that are being cooled fanless.

CPU's, well, that's a different story. I doubt a A64 3800+ and above, FX series, Intel 5XX, 6XX, 8XX, A64 X2 can be cooled fanless. Cooling low model Winnies and Venices fanless are a big enough challenge already.

I would also like to see how a PSU can be fanless beside a 100W+ CPU right beside it. Also there is the problem of powering everything with 350W, though it should work, but when everything is working fuill throttle, it might get flaky.

StarfishChris
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Post by StarfishChris » Sat May 14, 2005 11:32 am

Video cards can consume as much as a CPU can, and most of these fanless solutions still rely on a case fan somewhere. Though I'm happy to be proved wrong here...

Shadowknight
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Post by Shadowknight » Sat May 14, 2005 12:36 pm


ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:40 am

Still looking for that 50 mpg Turbo Porsche huh? A Venice 3000 was hardcore power a year ago. A heatsinked mid-level vid card will out game what was the elite card not that long ago.. Basically-this setup works when the case is pretty open-but there's no fan noise the case has to block. HD suspension would matter.

Not long ago folks were content with a silent Eden-now we CAN have a Venice 3000...and some are fussing that their 450.00 monster vidcard and radically OC'd 3800 might get smoked full passive....well :roll: duh!

There IS a way to have the Max overclocked hot rod super game puter....and a silent computer......build 2 :lol:

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:19 am

Ironic isn't it? The company that seems to be making fanless/silent computer components more than anyone else, continues to get bad-mouthed at SPCR. Some of the things they've made are very unique....and at the very least they are trying.

If/when thermaltake ever succeeds with these fanless solutions.....there will be plenty of red faces around here. :lol:

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Post by Ralf Hutter » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:23 am

Bluefront wrote: If/when thermaltake ever succeeds with these fanless solutions.....there will be plenty of red faces around here. :lol:
You got that half-right. It should be:

"If/when thermaltake ever succeeds with these fanless solutions.....it will be be because they ripped off the idea from some other company who spent the R&D dollars themselves."

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:47 am

Ralf.....what you're talking about is original thinking. That is a concept, impossible to prove. Who first thought of a fanless PSU for instance? The first company to patent one, the first company to suggest the idea, the first company to market one? Maybe it was some car mechanic somewhere, tinkering in his workshop. :lol:

I really don't think anything you see is a result of original thinking. We all use ideas we've seen somewhere, and try to improve on it. As to an original thought.....think up one. :)

Remember this project of mine, almost two year's old? The new Antec P180 is a direct copy of this idea......placing a separate chamber at the bottom of the case, using a 120mm fan blowing out through a fanless PSU, using the intake to this chamber to cool the hard drives. I'm not about to claim this is an original idea of mine (maybe it was), or that Antec stold my idea. But you see what I'm getting at?

BrianE
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Post by BrianE » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:47 am

As wary as I am getting into the "Thermaltake sucks" debate, I hate reading about it at SPCR. All I ever read about is how Thermaltake only rips off other people's ideas, and how their products are pure 100% crap that should be ignored at best, villified at worst. I just don't see the "rip off" arguement since there will always be products that look similar (maybe because that is the only implementation that makes sense) and TT does have several products that are original in design as far as I can tell. Companies copying each other's ideas isn't such an uncommon idea anyway, especially if they are good ideas. Business is business and competition can be good for the consumer. As far as performance goes I know little, although some of their products I've seen reviewed actually do well. Why not give it a chance? Try it out and see if it performs as advertised, since all companies make both good and lousy performing products, and if it works, use it. The last criticizm of Thermaltake is that they publish exaggerated (ie, optimistic) specs of their products. While I don't condone such a practice I am pretty sure that TT isn't the only company that has done this. Even "respectable" name brands have been guilty of doing this with SPCR tested products.

Sorry for the OT rant (:oops: ), but this is one reason why I only lurked for a few months and almost didn't want to join SPCR. I've seen this type of mentality before ("car product" related) where people either aren't keeping an open mind, or just jump on a pre-existing (bashing/fanboy/other) bandwagon because it's fashionable. Seeing that kind of thing at SPCR left me with a bit of a bad impression on an otherwise fascinating and friendly forum, that by the very nature of its business should invite open minded experimentation.

[Dons flamesuit, plugs ears with asbestos]

frostedflakes
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Post by frostedflakes » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:04 pm

Doesn't look too bad. Would've been nice if passive motherboard chipset and hard drive cooling had been included though.

Shadowknight
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Post by Shadowknight » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:54 pm

I lot of the complaint center around: copying Thermalright's designs, and supplying "silent" fans that are loud.

The only issue I have with them is that I personally don't care for a "bling" factor, but then again, I don't care for that from ANY company.

Were it not for the Ninja review, I was on the verge of buying the Sonic Tower. The Tower has potential, though it's done so-so in reviews (of course, they never address whether they test in or out of a case, makes a BIG difference). TT has a tendancy to overdo the fin density, it looks good in ads "look! more dissipation area!"), but their engineers don't get that airflow can be more important, and that a 'sink can be MORE effective with less fins.

(note: the Ninja and ST have similar weights, the Ninja has a better center of gravity and airflow setup).

TT has, on occasion, released good, original products, but I agree that their is a lemming mindset on SPCR, and other forums, against TT. They do deserve the benefit of the doubt that they MAY have a good product. The Sonic Tower bashing is ridiculous without a review by SPCR, in my opinion, the best review site period. I would like to see a sample donated so a fair review and comparison to the Ninja could be made.

I will mention in closing, however, that my issues with their "fanless case" remain the same. Even the Zalman case has issues, and that is a high quality case that uses heatpipes. With a modern system, you CAN'T do a fanless setup, even a 5v Nexus will do for cooling.

alglove
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Post by alglove » Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:43 pm

For whatever it is worth, I do have a Thermaltake Schooner on my Radeon 9800XT and am quite happy with it. I do have fans in my case, though, so I am not dealing with a totally passive system. The main questions I have about this setup are...

1. What are the components they used to verify the fanless configuration?
2. Is there enough convective airflow inside the case to effectively draw the heat out?

I did notice that the power supply is mounted vertically instead of the in the usual horizontal position. This does have the potential to allow more air to escape out the top of the case. It does make the case bigger, though, and I am not a huge fan of large cases.

Until I actually see several reviews of it, count me as "interested but wary".

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Post by blackstar » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:19 pm

ronrem wrote:Still looking for that 50 mpg Turbo Porsche huh? A There IS a way to have the Max overclocked hot rod super game puter....and a silent computer......build 2 :lol:
hey, i think dual fanless PSU's and giant external rads could be pretty cool.

there is one way to run fanless PSU's next to hot CPU's.. have the PSU mounted underneath, a la V1000. works in my case..
With a modern system, you CAN'T do a fanless setup, even a 5v Nexus will do for cooling.
i think you can. relocate the heat to a big enough external radiator. other secondary heat sources like mosfets etc you can cool with convection with enough strategically placed holes in the case (or ignore, like i've done with my HDD's for the last couple of years without failure).

i will post this system when its finished.

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:51 pm

TT has published decibel claims for fans that are pretty much dubious,but so has Vantec to name just one of sevral others. the 2 "passive-optional "CPU heatsinks TT sells appear to do pretty good. A stock clocked Venice 3000,basically the baby if quiet is a top priority,can get cooled enough. Thermaltake's VGA cooler and PSU extend the heat exchange outside the case,using heatpipes,and that copies nobody. Otherwise you'd need to hang the whole PSU outside to have a no-fan PSU and a no fan CPU heatsink,you can't leave that psu heat in the box and run the cpu fanfree too. you also need a good airflow case. Theirs is Aluminum. If you have internal fan noise vibration-aluminum is not good BUT if there are no moving parts,except suspended-isolsted HD's,no fans,then the aluminum box helps conduct away internal heat. If there is virtually no noise in the box-you can have a LOT of venting,since escaping noise is less of an issue. Personally,I like the Coolmax PSU with the adjustable 140 mm fan.. First off,you spend 30-40 bucks less,and even at 1000 rpm,a 140 moves enough air to let an otherwise passive rig work.

As I suggest elsewhere- Gamers who feel a need to overclock have to accept that Max silence strategies won't work for them. I figure the dual core X2's and ALL Pentiums won't be safe in a fan free rig,or even one with the very minimum fans. Coolermaster now sells a 120mm fan that runs at 750 rpm. That's gotta be near inaudible. I reckon it could even get undervolted and run at 500rpm. It would not move a lot of air but would move SOME. Venice/Winchester chips run so cool you can get away with a lot IF the whole rig is planned out as a unit.

Another tradeoff is case size. A very small case can be heated easily by a cpu,a large case has more air volume to heat,and more sufaces to radiate,and better airflow. Another tradeoff-want passive? The tiny case works against you. I could mention too that a 4 Raptor Raid array and a couple gigs of fast Ram add some heat,plus theres the notorious NF4 chipset.

Bottom line-Don't Whine-pick your priority,but get beyond thining there are no trade offs------end of rant :roll:

Mar.
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Post by Mar. » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:28 pm

I like Thermaltake as a company, everything they do makes perfect sense.

Why waste time and money on researching some unnecessary new design when it is just as easy to copy the product against which you'll be competing? The end result is a product that performs almost if not as well, and is usually cheaper. The trade-off, of course, is that they never have the cutting-edge designs.

As far as fan noise, here is how I look at it. Ninety percent of the people who buy their stuff are not at all concerned with noise, they buy them for three reasons: price, looks, and tech specs. Most people will take the specs at face value, and never know the difference when they start using the product.

Those who do know the difference, either would not have bought Thermaltake products in the first place, or will have expected the added noise, and are prepared to deal with it by replacing fans. Thermaltake knows this, and does not bother to make their fans quiet, thus making the product cheaper.

alglove
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Post by alglove » Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:20 pm

Mar. wrote:Those who do know the difference, either would not have bought Thermaltake products in the first place, or will have expected the added noise, and are prepared to deal with it by replacing fans. Thermaltake knows this, and does not bother to make their fans quiet, thus making the product cheaper.
I can see how this could apply to their other products, but how does this apply to a totally fanless system :?:

Mar.
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Post by Mar. » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:03 am

alglove wrote:I can see how this could apply to their other products, but how does this apply to a totally fanless system :?:
It doesn't specifically apply to this system, but I'm just pointing out that even though Thermaltake rarely makes a product that a silent PC enthusiast would use, they do offer a good selection for people who aren't concerned with absolutely top-notch performance, and are willing to sacrifice a little speed, noise, etc. for a product that is often a bit cheaper than a competitor's.

alglove
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Post by alglove » Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:47 pm

Gotcha. :)

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:48 pm

and yet the reality is that Thermaltake has been doing coolers for years,and has evolved to where they do the basic cheapo,do the Gamer-Power User stuff ----AND are quite creative when it comes to the silent side...that being most of us.

Looking at those items that are part of their fanless setup,I see nothing that appears to copy anything else. TT and Scythe are alone in the Fanless CPU cooler market. They both use heatpipe technology,but otherwise are much different designs. Indeed the two TT fanless coolers are about as unique looking as any coolers out there.

My fantasy rig will have a Coolmax PSU-the one with the adjustable speed 140mm fan,A Sonic Tower,the new Coolermaster heatpipe chipset cooler-minus it's fan,with an NF4 mobo,an A64 3000 venice,a passive vanilla Radeon but a high end soundcard. I might add a single case fan-like the 720 rpm Coolermaster 120mm,or a thermo-sensing Artic tc 80mm,setup to function only if temps warm up from high-loads. I figure such a setup would be very near silent without lots of tricks-though I likely will use plenty of tricks to furthur reduce sound.

If I was a Game guy,and wanted a high power/high heat vid card plus an overclocked CPU,I'd figure that I'd need to have a fan/heatsink on the cpu,plus a case exhaust. I am not planning on a full passive PSU just because of the price.

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