Cool'n'Quiet unstable? nVidia chipset? hmm...

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meglamaniac
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Cool'n'Quiet unstable? nVidia chipset? hmm...

Post by meglamaniac » Thu May 26, 2005 2:28 am

When I built my system (Asus A8n-SLI Deluxe, Athlon64 3000+) one of the first modifications I made was to replace the active cooling on the nVidia chipset with the Zalman ZM-NB47J. Recently, as the weather has been heating up, the system has become unstable when the processor load is at a point which causes rapid switches between CnQ levels. It got to the point where I could expect a random BSOD (all with different messages) once every two days.

In an effort to fix this, the first thing I did was to check and upgrade all the relevant drivers for the processor and the chipset, but that had no effect so I began to suspect a heat problem.
I removed the board from the case and detached the Zalman heatsink, but the contact seemed to be fine and there was no problem with the AS5 I used for thermal compound. I decided to reattach the active cooling for a short trial period, and while I was doing so I noticed that the pins on the activer cooler were much stiffer than those on the Zalman - that is, they were pressing the heatsink down onto the chip much harder.

Anyway, after a week with no crashes using the active cooling it was obvious heat was the issue. I cleaned down the Zalman cooler and the chipset with alcohol again, and reapplied the AS5. This time, I also wedged a small piece of card between the Zalman retention pins and the underside of the motherboard, to try and increase the tensioning.

So far I am happy to say it appears to have worked. The system is once again 100% stable and I'm very glad to get rid of the annoying whine of that chipset cooler again. So if you seem to be having trouble with stability on an nVidia based board, this may well be the cause.

Incidentally, the "system temperature" sensor on the A8N-SLI Deluxe seems to be located either in or very close to the chipset. When unstable it was reading around 45 in speedfan. With active cooling it read around 38. With the reapplied Zalman it now reads 41. I also have a fan controller with independant temperature probes, and the one i have dangling in the middle of the case to check system temperature has read around 35 regardless of which heatsink I had on the chipset.

m0002a
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Post by m0002a » Thu May 26, 2005 9:09 am

I would not use AS5 on the chipset cooler because the Zalman (or other HS which uses spring loaded pins) does not apply enough pressure IMO. AS Ceramique would be better (or even the stuff that comes with the Zalman).

I have no problems with my chipset temps.

meglamaniac
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Post by meglamaniac » Thu May 26, 2005 10:08 am

Ah, I wasn't aware the AS5 required a particularly high pressure.
I don't have much on this weekend so I may try removing the heatsink yet again and using the Zalman supplied TIM instead.

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Thu May 26, 2005 10:59 am

cool n quiet is does often not work using more than 2 sticks of ram on a 939 or 1 stick on a 754. THis includes the recommended list of motherboards where it says "yes 2 sticks verified! woohoo!" it didnt for me, and it hasnt for 2 other people who are computer geeky and have fx systems.

just a tip.

My bsod's happened 1-2x a day and then never for a week when I THOUGHT i fixed the problem... lol..... it only really fixed when i put 1 stick on my 754 of 1 gig ram (1 gig chips are sexier anyways)

Pooh-Bah
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Post by Pooh-Bah » Thu May 26, 2005 2:35 pm

I've come to the conclusion that a fan is required on the NF4. Even a totally silet fan will do. My NF4 gets to over 60c in minutes under a prime95 torture test without a fan. I'm using the Zalman gold heatsink on the chipset. I threw in an old fan I had and attached it to a speed controller so I could make it dead silent. I just laid it up against the heatsink and it works perfectly. With my silent fan, it only gets to the mid 40c range according to my Raytek heat gun.

So in my opinion, the gold Zalman heatsink and probably even the larger blue model just cant cut it at full load without a minimal fan.

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Thu May 26, 2005 3:26 pm

Pooh-Bah wrote:I've come to the conclusion that a fan is required on the NF4. Even a totally silet fan will do. My NF4 gets to over 60c in minutes under a prime95 torture test without a fan. I'm using the Zalman gold heatsink on the chipset. I threw in an old fan I had and attached it to a speed controller so I could make it dead silent. I just laid it up against the heatsink and it works perfectly. With my silent fan, it only gets to the mid 40c range according to my Raytek heat gun.

So in my opinion, the gold Zalman heatsink and probably even the larger blue model just cant cut it at full load without a minimal fan.
zalman gold heatsink???

id like to see it! yum!

m0002a
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Post by m0002a » Thu May 26, 2005 3:31 pm

~El~Jefe wrote:zalman gold heatsink???

id like to see it! yum!
It is gold colored instead of blue. It is flat on top, and easier to mount on a fan on it.

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Thu May 26, 2005 5:16 pm

m0002a wrote:
~El~Jefe wrote:zalman gold heatsink???

id like to see it! yum!
It is gold colored instead of blue. It is flat on top, and easier to mount on a fan on it.
oh.
yeah that one. thats the older one, lil smaller in total mass. but yes it is good for putting a fan on it.

I suggest highly, a simple solution from Zalman, the swing arm fan that attaches to a pci screw slot, it doesnt take up a slot, it just rides above it hovering the board. You can swing it and slide it over that and not have to be concerned about a tiny buzzing fan. I would try this first. The kit comes with a fanmate controller to make life easier.

meglamaniac
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Post by meglamaniac » Fri May 27, 2005 1:47 am

I already have an airflow solution, as I realised at the start that trying for totally passive cooling would probably not work.
I have a GeForce 6600GT in this system, with the Zalman ZM80D-HP on it. Rather than buying the optional fan, I managed to rig up a system to attach a normal fan instead. I went to my local hardware store and bought the smallest bag of flathead nails I could find. I then filed the heads of the nails down until I could slide them into the channel that runs along the top side of the ZM80D. With that done, I chopped the ends off the nails to avoid nasty accidents, and then secured them into the channel with rubber washers.

The result is I can use the ZM80D to hang more or less any fan I want, so I positioned a good old orange nexus 120mm so it blows over both part of the ZM80D and over the chipset as well.
With the tensioning problem sorted out it seems to be doing the trick, as I can have it running full power - the acoustipack deadens the sound enough that I can't hear it.

fjf
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nf4

Post by fjf » Fri May 27, 2005 7:41 am

I use the golden nj32 zalman with a 40 mm papst fan, not very noisy. I agree that a fan is required. That chip is hot!!. The passive solution is dangerous.

Regards

m0002a
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Re: nf4

Post by m0002a » Fri May 27, 2005 10:00 am

fjf wrote:I use the golden nj32 zalman with a 40 mm papst fan, not very noisy. I agree that a fan is required. That chip is hot!!. The passive solution is dangerous.
In a lot of PC cases, it is easy to attach an 80mm (or larger) fan to the hard drive cage using zip ties and get it to blow right on the chipset cooler (sideways). This fan can run at 5V in most situations.

`clipse
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Post by `clipse » Sun May 29, 2005 12:18 am

meglamaniac wrote: have a GeForce 6600GT in this system, with the Zalman ZM80D-HP on it.
im confused do you have 6600gt PCI-E or agp?
DFI Lanparty NF3 250gb 260x9
s754 AMD Sempron 3100+ @ 2340mhz
Corsair BH6 @ 235mhz, 3.1v, 2-2-2-5-10-16
Zalman CNPS7000cu, NB47j, ZM80D, MFC-1
Asus Ti4200 @ 315/630

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sun May 29, 2005 7:41 am

see, everyone tells me im stupid on here for saying not to go above a via kt800 pro chipset. OMGOSH YOU CNT B l33t d00d !@! type of comments.

really, I say, if building, stick with agp (the fastest models out there work in agp form just as well. Stick with a via chipset, under massive/max load they are touchable and just kinda warm with a stock heatsink. They will not at all lag you down in any game at all, and have basically, as far as I can see, no bugs if you are on a windows based system.

I am unsure how the pci-express boards fair with the new pci-express chipsets for via. My next board is an asus 939 board with that chipset. :)

(i have a 754 socket kv8 pro ABIT as of this moment)

Jan Kivar
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Post by Jan Kivar » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:52 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:cool n quiet is does often not work using more than 2 sticks of ram on a 939 or 1 stick on a 754. THis includes the recommended list of motherboards where it says "yes 2 sticks verified! woohoo!" it didnt for me, and it hasnt for 2 other people who are computer geeky and have fx systems.
Older A64's (S754) don't officially support two double-bank sticks @DDR400. Some boards automatically drop to DDR333 when such a memory configuration is installed. Venice core should support 4 sticks @DDR400, IIRC. Winchester should drop to DDR333 when four sticks are used.

I needed to set 2T command rate in BIOS for my MSI K8N Neo Platinum in order to get it Prime95-stable (I did test only at 1.1V then). Then it worked without a hitch. I'm using 2x512MB Kingston Value RAM.

Cheers,

Jan
[size=75]E6600 (2GHz@1,163V, 3GHz@1,237V), Ninja rev. B, AB9 Pro, 4x1 GB Corsair (CM2X1024-6400), MSI 7600GS, Samsung HD501LJ/HD401LJ/SP2504C, Plextor PX760SA, Seasonic S12-430, Nexus Fans, Antec Solo, ViewSonic VP201b[/size]

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:28 am

The Venice cpu's improve several memory issues. A cheap L bracket from the hardware store can let you aim an 80 mm or 120-like the 750 rpm coolermaster,so it blows across the chipset and toward a rear exhaust. The NF4 is a great rig,the adaptations are pretty simple stuff.

m0002a
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Post by m0002a » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:37 am

ronrem wrote:A cheap L bracket from the hardware store can let you aim an 80 mm or 120-like the 750 rpm coolermaster,so it blows across the chipset and toward a rear exhaust. The NF4 is a great rig,the adaptations are pretty simple stuff.
I completely agree. I think the NF4 w/o SLI and with audio disabled (use a PCI audio card) is cooler than what some have have reported with a NF4 SLI chipset using on-bard audio. If needed, it is easy to blow some air on the passive Zalman chipset cooler.

My Asus A8N-E runs rock solid with Cool n Quiet.

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