About a silent power-gaming HTPC

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:55 pm

Hi guys, I’m new here, and I just found out that my PC annoy me

Ok, I’m a gamer and I tend to be a videophile/audiophile too, so I want big quality picture and high frame rate, so I need performances, but performances normally come with big noise, so I ask you, how can we get the noise out the equation?

Here is the thing; I currently have a big NOISY beige box that contains a XP 1700+ with an MSI Geforce4 Ti 4200. I would like to quiet that thing up for a temporary solution, since I know that in about 6 months I will be building my new Home Theater PC. I plan to equip my next PC with the AMD 64-bit CPU and the GeForceFX GPU.

I want a temporary solution that will be able to cool both my current PC and my next, see the thing?

The problem is that I know close to nothing in the cooling domain... (I’m a PC-cooling student since about a weeks

)

I think that a powerful water-cooling system would be a good solution to make it work with both PCs.

I would like to collect some ideas about different solutions to construct such a box. What have been done? What do you plan to do?

EDIT: Oh yeah, here is what I found so far, but it's not powerful enough: http://www.calmpc.com/english/company-e.htm

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanx in advance.

~ Mercury

TheMuffinMan · Post by **TheMuffinMan** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 7:10 pm

For the CPU, I used SpeedFan to control the speed, and brought it down to a silent speed. You can have the program bring up the fan speed if it gets hot etc...

I put my hard drive in a small cardboard box (from my UT2003 box

), and then placed that box at the bottom-front of my computer on top of bubble-wrap.

I bought two new case fans, one Vantec Stealth and one Antec (Thermoflow?). I put the stealth in the front, pending some sort of on/off switch, it remains off. The thermoflow is on in the back next to the CPU for exhaust.

I also bought round IDE cables to maximize the lower airflow. And I put my comp. on the floor (it was rug, so I'm pretty sure that helped to dampen the noise)

I am looking for a way to quiet my Radeon (orig) 64 MB, and that's pretty much the last source of noise in the computer.

Cost Summary:
Round IDE Cable: $11
Cardboard box: Free (sort of)
Bubble Wrap: Free
Stealth Fan: $12
Thermoflow fan: $16
Total: $39

Hope that helps.
Specs: AMD Athlon 1700+, Western Dig 40 GB HDD, Radeon 64 MB, 2x NICs, IWill XP333, Mitsumi 40x Burner
My temps at the moment CPU/Case/Approx Ambient (in deg F): 117/91/72

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:15 am

Thanx for the help MuffinMan, but the problem is that this solution probably won’t work for my next PC (witch was the purpose of this thread: found a solution for both of my PC).

When the time comes (when I will hear it), I will put my HD in one of those cases: http://www.quietpc.ca/silentdrive.html

I already got 2 secondary fans that cool down my current PC, I think that if I can make my PC quiet to the point where I’ll be able to hear them, the temporary solution will be archived.

Round IDE cables will really help the ambient temperature of the case? (Could someone link me to a good prices Canadian online vendor?)

Note: I need my PC silent when I listen to DVD-V, DVD-A and when I play games, so a quiet IDLE PC isn’t enough

For an independent temporary solution for my current PC, I thought about this HSF combo: Thermalright SLK-800 & Panaflo FBA08A12L.

What do you think?

Gandalf · Post by **Gandalf** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:43 am

I have -- just like you -- an xp1700+. I put a zalman6000cu on it. It doesn't reach 40°C under full load. Actually I've never seen it go over 38°C. I have a GeForce4MX440 with a zalman17cu (those older vga coolers) on it and that one doesn't get hot either (I don't recommend that on your Ti though!). My case (a Lian Li pc61) has two papst intake fans running at 7volts, one papst outtake at 7v and an Aopen 300w psu. Believe it or not, but this thing is silent. When my music is on I don't hear it at all.

I don't know how hot AMD's new CPU's will be, but considering their tbreds are a few degrees cooler than the older generation I'm guessing that their 64bits won't be disturbingly hotter, so I'm guessing the zalman shouldn't pose a problem. And if it does, turn up the fan a bit, cuz mine's running at 5v.

Yes, round cables can help improve airflow, and they also look better. Most computer stores sell them, and if not you can try finding them in the more "overclocking and casemodding"-oriented stores. I don't live in Canada so I don't know many Canadian stores

A watercooling system is another very nice option. I can recommend the DangerDen Maze3 waterblock. You'll also need a radiator, which you can usually get for free (an old car radiator or something, Renaults and Opels both use copper radiators .. volkswagens use alu). A pump isn't hard to get either, a garden/pond pump isn't too expencive. You don't want to buy a pump that can create a 10metre high fountain, but you do want a pump that *moves* some water. Of course you'll also need tubing and such.
Also, there are excellent waterblocks for GeForce cards. That would eliminate another fan in the system

.

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 9:58 am

When the time comes (when I will hear it), I will put my HD in one of those cases: http://www.quietpc.ca/silentdrive.html

I don't recommend it -- check the recommended HDD page.

If I was planning a quiet gaming system (which I am, for SPCR), I would use a top notch watercooling kit + large case + external radiator w/o fan. The Swiftech systems look really good, but there are a couple others too.

DarkLord · Post by **DarkLord** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 11:38 am

About the SilentDrive:

I'd actually recommend it to enclose any non-main HDD. I didn't want to get one after the bad reviews and opinions it got on this site, but since others recommended it anyways I tried it because it's the cheapest sollution other than just decoupling.
I enclosed an IBM 30GB 7200rpm HDD ("DTLA"-something) which is *not* my main harddisk but my 'media'-drive with audio and video files I use a lot.
The temperature on this IBM drive, which used to be about 1°C above the temp of my seagate baracuda IV 80GB main-drive is just that: 1°C, sometimes 2°C warmer than the non-enclosed seagate, which means:
Seagte is around 46-48 and IBM (SilenDrive) is ~ 46-49°C.
Of course others might not feel as well with these temps, but I do.
No special active cooling is used within my system other than cpu, psu and graphics card. So this results did actually positively surprise me, currently both drives are at 46°C each after ~ two days uptime and my room temperature is not specially cool or anything.

So I didn't see which HDDs you want to stick into those things, but all I want to say is I wouldn't strictly say SilentDrives are a bad thing for 7200rpm drives - with my personal experiance in mind I'd say it pretty much depends on the specific drive. Which is why I'm looking forward to stick my brand-new baracuda in another special enclosure (not smartdrive - only available in germany).

sgtpokey · Post by **sgtpokey** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 12:15 am

---

...since I know that in about 6 months I will be building my new Home Theater PC. I plan to equip my next PC with the AMD 64-bit CPU and the GeForceFX GPU.

---

Just a thought but if you plan on using your new system as a home theatre system, you might want to check out the fanless Sapphire 9700 Radeon Pro (Ultimate). It's a Radeon 9700 Pro with a pre-installed zalman fanless heatpipe. Not out yet as far as I can tell, but then again neither is the GeForceFX. You probably want the FX 'cause it'll be the best out at that time. However, the 9700 Pro ought to make mincemeat out of anything for years and years to come AND it'll be silent. The GeForce FX, not sure if you've read, has a large (it covers an AGP and a PCI slot!!) active cooling solution that engages when temp limits are hit. The implication is that the cooling is rather loud when on. That whirring noise just might start to bug you whenever you hit a quiet moment in a movie or game.

Oh and as far as silencing the hard drive goes... I still have had a very good experience using the Smart Drive II enclosure rather than the Silent drive you've linked to.

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:00 pm

post by MikeC
If I was planning a quiet gaming system (which I am, for SPCR), I would use a top notch watercooling kit + large case + external radiator w/o fan. The Swiftech systems look really good, but there are a couple others too.

Well, that’s would be a perfect solution, but has I said, I’m a newb, and I understood that watercooling system are “riskey” for newbs, right?

What I CURRENTLY know about water-cooling :
I need a pump.
I need a radiator.
I need waterblocks.
I need tubes.
Must be plugged in the following pattern: CPU -> GPU -> PSU -> Pump -> *loop*
…and The parts cannot be cooled more then the water temp.

That’s about it. :-/

Merc’s newb Qs list:

1. The thermoelectric technology seems pretty powerful, but it’s a big no-no for newbs, but why, what are the risks? (I read that review: http://www.3dxtreme.org/swiftechgpup1.shtml )

2. Do basic watercooling requires more power (W)?

3. What are the advantages and disadvantages of having an internal or external radiator?

4. Does Swiftech sell an easy-to-install solution or an out-of-the-box solution?

5. What is decoupling (about HD)?

***

DarkLord, what would you recommend me for silencing the “main” HD (the only HD in my instance)?

Note: I’m WILL buy a new HD for my next PC (so I will buy what it takes to be silent

), probably a Serial-ATA, any recommendation? I’ve notice that Seagate are the king in the silent domain...

***

sgtpokey, I’ve seen the GeForceFX cooling system, and it has been reviewed very LOUD, so that’s probably why I wouldn’t get something worthful without getting in touch with some liquid.

Could you link me to the Silent Drive II?

Damn, I’m lost now… so much to learn…

sgtpokey · Post by **sgtpokey** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:21 pm

***

sgtpokey, I’ve seen the GeForceFX cooling system, and it has been reviewed very LOUD, so that’s probably why I wouldn’t get something worthful without getting in touch with some liquid.

Could you link me to the Silent Drive II?

oops, I misled you on the name, it's actually the Smart Drive 2002:
here's googlegear's link for it:
http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDe ... ode=143901
here's my experience of it:
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/forums ... php?t=2512
and here's someone else less happy review:
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/forums ... php?t=2552

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:27 pm

1. The thermoelectric technology seems pretty powerful, but it’s a big no-no for newbs, but why, what are the risks? (I read that review: http://www.3dxtreme.org/swiftechgpup1.shtml )

2. Do basic watercooling requires more power (W)?

3. What are the advantages and disadvantages of having an internal or external radiator?

4. Does Swiftech sell an easy-to-install solution or an out-of-the-box solution?

5. What is decoupling (about HD)?

1. requires watercooling and more PSU power
2. the pump takes 20W or less; no big deal, and it is usually connected to AC, not the PSU
3. seems fairly self-evident
4. Swiftech has an informative web site
5. Read articles about HDD quieting on the main SPCR site

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:08 pm

Sgtpokey, thanx for the links, I’ll read them when I’ll have time.

1. requires watercooling and more PSU power
2. the pump takes 20W or less; no big deal, and it is usually connected to AC, not the PSU
3. seems fairly self-evident
4. Swiftech has an informative web site
5. Read articles about HDD quieting on the main SPCR site

1. Ok. But what makes more risky then simple water-cooling?
2. Ok.
3. Well, if I would find it evident myself, I wouldn’t ask, but I do.
4. URL?
5. Ok.

Thanx for the answers.

6. Where can I find a watercoolable 400W+ PSU?

7. What kind of case would you recommend for a water-cooled system?

Riffer · Post by **Riffer** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 4:46 am

Silent Gaming PC?

How many silent games are there out there?

Before you adopt any radical solutions, my suggestion is to get a decent case and put in Panaflo L1A's, get a relatively quiet power supply like Enermax, and put quiet fans on your CPU and Video card.

Once that is done, I doubt you will hear the computer over your games/multimedia.

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:43 am

hey im a gamer and i want a quiet pc too, mainly because my computer is in my room right beside my bed and i would like to have it quiet enough that i could sleep or watch tv without having to turn it off.

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:18 pm

Riffer, thanx for your advice, but it’s sure that I wouldn’t hear a moderatly silent PC when I’m in a full-action scene in a FPS game, but in silent scene, I will. I will use this PC not only as a gaming-box, but also as an HTPC, thus I will listen to DVD-Vs, CDs, MP3s and DVD-As, so silent is a MUST.

***

I would appreciate a good water-cooling website (with reviews, forums, recommandations, etc), anyone knows?

RickStrobel · Post by **RickStrobel** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:48 pm

MADONION WATER-COOLING RESOURCE AND FAQ

Riffer · Post by **Riffer** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:48 pm

Mercury wrote:Riffer, thanx for your advice, but it’s sure that I wouldn’t hear a moderatly silent PC when I’m in a full-action scene in a FPS game, but in silent scene, I will. I will use this PC not only as a gaming-box, but also as an HTPC, thus I will listen to DVD-Vs, CDs, MP3s and DVD-As, so silent is a MUST.

Okay, I get it now.

How about a Rheobus or 0/7/12volt bus? Then you can quiet down your fans when you need to.

Even with watercooling, you will still need fans on the radiator.

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:34 pm

RickStrobel, thanx for the very informative link.

Riffer, I need silence in game too

A water-cooled solution will probably do less overall noise.

How would you cool (in silence) a GeforceFX without liquid?

Ginta · Post by **Ginta** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:41 pm

I think since the base system is to be a home theater (inferring non-portable) I think a external water cooling solution is the most optimal. However this route can get expensive. Some suggestions solutions:

Koolance Exos is probably the easiest out-of-the-box solution.http://koolance.com/products/product.html?code=EXT-A01 I'm not sure actually how quiet the unit itself is but since it is external it makes it easier to silence either by moving to to a quieter position, building a enclosure or modding the fans. HardOCP has a fairly through review on it.

If you want a home built kit adding this to any of the number of kits out there would be work. http://www.clear-viewtech.com/Excoolers.html

Beyonder · Post by **Beyonder** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:33 pm

sgtpokey wrote:However, the 9700 Pro ought to make mincemeat out of anything for years and years to come AND it'll be silent.

If this was true, then my Geforce 2 GTS would still be sitting in my gaming box.

Doom III, from what I hear, will already tax a 9700 pro on high quality settings and a high resolution. In the 3d world, cards don't have a longevity of "years and years."

But yes - it'll be silent and fast.

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:20 am

yea next year there will be cards that will blow the 9700pro away, and the year after that there will be cards that blow those cards away. So basically just buy what you want now, because in a few months its gonna be crap anyways.

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:46 pm

Ok ok guys, I’m convinced, I’m going water-cooling, but I still have a couple (many) Qs:

1. Is there a fan less radiator solution out there?

2. Where can I get watercoolable PSUs?

3. Do I have to plan more PSU power for the pump?

4. How often I will have to change the water inside the system?

5. Does the pump produce a considerable amount noise?

6. How do I fix my waterblocks on my components?

... more to come…

Note: My component does not have to be as cold as 30C, 40-50 is OK for me, silence is more important. (I mean my current CPU run 42C at idle, and the fan on it is an airplane). I would like to have no fan in my system, that way it will be silent, but also dust free .

Thanx in advance.

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:07 pm

2. Where can I get watercoolable PSUs?
3. Do I have to plan more PSU power for the pump?

Um... on the basis of the questions you are still asking, I'd say don't try this. There's no such thing as a watercoolable PSU. It's DIY -- going to be difficult. Just get a Nexus & if everything else works out & it's the noisiest thing, then consider modding another one (so you'll have this one as a backup just in case).

A fanless radiator -- like a fanless HS -- is just any radiator that you don't stick a fan over! You can do this safely if the radiator is big enough (like Michael Greene's), or if the water flow rate is really high or both.

Some of your questions are already answered elsewhere in these forums or others; waterblock clamps are specific to each waterblock.

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 9:34 am

post by MikeC
Um... on the basis of the questions you are still asking, I'd say don't try this. There's no such thing as a watercoolable PSU. It's DIY -- going to be difficult. Just get a Nexus & if everything else works out & it's the noisiest thing, then consider modding another one (so you'll have this one as a backup just in case).

That’s bad, the market is slow...

So you recommend Nexus PSUs...

I see that you’re from Vancouver, do you know good CANADIAN online stores for water cooling (and silent PC in general) products? (Importing is so pricy with the so damn low CAD)

post by MikeC
A fanless radiator -- like a fanless HS -- is just any radiator that you don't stick a fan over! You can do this safely if the radiator is big enough (like Michael Greene's), or if the water flow rate is really high or both.

Woh! Does it have to be THAT big? And with a big thing like that, a more powerful pump will certainly be needed, how can I “calculate” the power of the pump that I will need?

Alicey · Post by **Alicey** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 9:42 am

I've never watercooled anything so I don't know much about it, but the GFFX will put out so much more heat than any card today that I'd make sure you invest in a bigger radiator and pump than is recognised as 'standard' today.

I wouldn't go with no fans, either, even a 12dBA 19.4CFM fan is better than nothing, and super quiet.

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 11:29 am

post by Alicey
I wouldn't go with no fans, either, even a 12dBA 19.4CFM fan is better than nothing, and super quiet

Probably that I will go that route for a first try, which brand do you recommend, witch size? An example of that kind of fan? Running it at 7V or even at 5V will be OK?

Any example about a GeforceFX-proof pump/radiator combo?

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 12:55 am

Mercury, if you're really interested, here's a couple of guys in the UK who watercooled their PSU:

The legendary bladerunner, who is like God among some silencers, with his amazing finish WC enermax 550:
http://www.zerofanzone.co.uk/content.as ... 50w&page=1

A more recent convert, it appears:
http://www.digital-explosion.co.uk/inde ... ticleID=65

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 7:21 am

Well thanx MikeC for the links, I’ll read them later, but I think I will put PSU water-cooling aside for now, but I will surely consider it when I’ll have my working watercooling system installed and efficient.

I’ve made some research and I’ve managed to find this as a “mix and match” WC system (note: I’m going watercooling ONLY because I want my PC silent, and IF possible perhaps overclocking):
Pump: Eheim 1250 water pump - 68.00$
Radiator: The Scoop - 150.00$ (I heard it was available without fans, where? WHERE?)
Waterblock – CPU: Danger Gen Maze 3 - 42.00$
Waterblock – GPU: OCHO Geforce 3 and Geforce 4 block/Radeon 9700 - 49.00$
Tubbing: Tygon - 3.25$ / foot
Hose Clamps: ???
T - 1.75$
Water Wetter (25% WW - 75% water): 3.50$
Artic Silver 3: 8.00$

TOTAL: 335.25$ + shipping (with 4 feet of tubing, enough?)

What do you guys think?
Anybody has a “silent freak” review about the Scoop radiator and/or the Eheim 1250?

And here is an updated list of Q:

Does it better to use 3/8" or 1/2" ID hose?
Does north bridge (chipset) cooling is really necessary (or just a big efficient HS will do (witch?) )?
Upgrading my system by adding a watercoolable PSU will just require 2 tubes, right?
An installation guide would also be appreciated, where do I physically fix the radiator, the pump and the T or reservoir inside the case (and still be able to silence my HD later on)?
As a newb, does I’m better with a reservoir?

Could you provide me a link where this Q (How often I will have to change the water inside the system) is answered?

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 9:48 am

Here's the place for WC, at Overclockers.com -- looks like over a hundred articles on the subject: http://www.overclockers.com/topiclist/i ... %20COOLING They have a very active forum, as well.

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 1:05 pm

Finally a Canadian store!

Thanx MikeC, but I would appreciated to hear what “silent pc folks” have to say about what I’m about to buy since I go water-cooling ONLY because I want to silent my annoying airplane (PC). I will spend around 300-350$ on that WC-system, so if it happen to be half-silent, I’ll just say fuck-off, and I’ll buy an mid-end air-cooled system for around 150$.

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 1:17 pm

Finally a Canadian store!