is there actually a viable keyboard/mouse package?

ki_cz · Post by **ki_cz** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:13 am

I've been hunting on the forums for what should be a relatively easy chore:

A keyboard/mouse package that functions well, is at least somewhat quiet, and is reliable. The logitech dinovo looks beautiful and I'd be willing to spend the money on it, if the user reviews elsewhere on the web didn't tear it to shreds. I've never had a problem with keyboards/mice, so I can only imagine how annoying it must be to have that kind of problem.

I'd like a wireless set, of good quality, doesn't have to be the quietest, but it needs to work. I use my computer 100% for design, and watching movies. No games, but I would still like minimal reponse time between the mouse and the computer. I love logitech products, but would be willing to look elsewhere, unfortunately, aesthetics are important. If somebody can convince me to get the dinovo, I'd do it, it's just that sexy, but otherwise, I'd like some opinions on a good combo.

I've seen the ultrax combo, but don't know much about it and can't find any reviews.

http://shopper.cnet.com/Logitech_UltraX ... l?tag=coco&

Any help?

nici · Post by **nici** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:12 am

Whats wrong with the diNovo? I didnt use the included mouse but otherwise it worked flawlessly and the batteries lasted for ages. Just get the bluetooth version, not the notebook version wich is cheaper and not bluetooth and apparently has some lag.

If not the diNovo then the microsoft wireless desktop elite is good imo, though i dont like the bluish color of the new bluetooth version very much..

I like the feel o the microsoft keyboards better, and i can type faster with them, and they are very quiet as long as you dont bang the keys...

What i dont like about the microsoft boards is the enourmous amount of extra buttons, i never need them, but maybe someone does.

sun.moon · Post by **sun.moon** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:25 am

nici wrote:If not the diNovo then the microsoft wireless desktop elite is good imo, though i dont like the bluish color of the new bluetooth version very much..

I like the feel o the microsoft keyboards better, and i can type faster with them, and they are very quiet as long as you dont bang the keys...

What i dont like about the microsoft boards is the enourmous amount of extra buttons, i never need them, but maybe someone does.

I second that. I have also had good experience with the Microsoft wireless desktop elite. The keys are quite, mouse reaction is fast and reliable. But there are those tons of extra buttons...

My wife was looking at the diNovo too, sure it looks cool. But she also decided for the desktop elite, and hasn't regretted it.

ki_cz · Post by **ki_cz** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:28 am

I've heard that the dinovo has a tendency to freeze in some cases and the software is a bit buggy. These are of course just reviews from zdnet so I'm not sure how reliable they are. All professional reviews seem to love it, but then again they don't really use them day in day out for weeks before reviewing them.

What's the lag like on it? Is it at all noticeable? I don't really play games, but would rather have it not lag. I really hope to not have to resort to microsoft, I don't really like the look of their stuff.

KansaKilla · Post by **KansaKilla** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:25 am

I have used the Logitech MX Duo for over 2 years now, and still going strong. Relatively quiet, haven't had to change the batteries in the keyboard yet. Only downside is that the knobs on the base of the mouse that come into contact with the recharging base need to be wiped with alcohol a couple of times a year to get the oil and crud off so that they can charge properly.

All in all, I love that combo.

We have a Microsoft bluetooth keyboard here at work, but it is laggy. I think my MX Duo runs circles around it.

My 2 cents.

--KansaKilla

sun.moon · Post by **sun.moon** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:27 am

Why don't you just get the diNova and try it out. If it turns out that you don't like it, you can always unload it in Ebay. That combi set would definitely have a good resale value. Just make sure to keep the original packaging and place the auction at a good day/time. In fact some people are so stupid to actually bid more than the street value, since they have no idea what it really costs!

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:33 am

KansaKilla wrote:I have used the Logitech MX Duo for over 2 years now, and still going strong. Relatively quiet, haven't had to change the batteries in the keyboard yet. Only downside is that the knobs on the base of the mouse that come into contact with the recharging base need to be wiped with alcohol a couple of times a year to get the oil and crud off so that they can charge properly.

All in all, I love that combo.

We have a Microsoft bluetooth keyboard here at work, but it is laggy. I think my MX Duo runs circles around it.

My 2 cents.

--KansaKilla

i think my keyboard/mouse combo and situation is almost identicle to his. i also have to wipe off the connects for the mouse battery to charge every so often. i havnt changed the batteries in the keyboard yet. but i did just recently have to change the batteries in the mouse because it wouldnt hold a charge anymore. they use rechargable Nickle-hydrate batteries. cost about 5 bucks for a pair of AA's. but it runs like brand new again. its by far the best keyboard/mouse combo ive ever used. the mouse that came with it is the MX700 with base recharger.

i dont think i'll ever own any keyboard/mouse combo other than logitech ever again.

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:12 am

I've been using a non-bluetooth diNovo keyboard since April and have yet to notice any lag, and no software problems, either. My only complaint is the un-stepped Caps Lock key (typical of Logitech keyboards), which allows inadvertent caps if you're as bad a typist as me. I use several of the special function buttons in the top row, as well as the media control buttons. And it works fine to edit the BIOS when needed, despite being a USB link.

I've never even unwrapped the companion mouse, since I prefer the five button arrangement on the MX510 mouse.

cAPSLOCK · Post by **cAPSLOCK** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:04 pm

I have the UltraX Media Desktop for about 2 months now. The fact that it's a flat keyboard is great, now I feel like I have swollen fingers or something when I use a normal keyboard, and I'll be forever dependent on laptop-style keyboards from now on. The media buttons on the keyboard are of two sorts: the F1-12 keys have little blue icons on them and can be used with teh Fn button, these are basically useless, you might as well have Alt-F1-12 shortcuts, that said I never use media buttons to lauch programs anyway. The other media buttons are vol up/down, next/previous track, play/pause and mute, these are separate buttons, the only thing bad that can be said about them is that the play/pause is in the middle of the volume/track buttons, so sometimes if I overenthusiastically press it I also skip a track or something. As far as the keyboard layout goes, the only non-standard bit is that the Delete key is double sized and the Insert is combined with the Print Screen key, although this is the case with all recent Logitech keyboards.
The mouse has a scroller that can go left/right, and extra up/down buttons for the thumb. I don't use these fancy functions. Apart from that it's as good as any optical mouse, can't comment on latency, precision, etc... I don't play UT2004

The only inconvenience is perhaps that the buttons and the top part of the mouse is made out of shiny plastic, and your hand can get sweaty on it.
For the receiver module, it uses only one USB, doesn't come with any form of PS/2 adapters, and has handy LEDs for cAPSLOCK

, Num Lock, and low battery for the keyboard and for the mouse.
I haven't tried any other notebook style keyboards, but I don't think the keyboard's action can be improved in anyway, if you are really demanding you might want another [laser] mouse though. All said, for less than a third of the price of a DiNovo desktop, you can't go wrong with the UltraX Media Desktop

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:55 pm

i have a cordless mx duo and i'm looking to replace it. the keyboard is too noisy and the mouse's left click is malfunctioning in an extremely irritating manner - when the button is physically down it sometimes seemingly un-clicks and re-clicks by itself which means dragging things around is nearly impossible (it'll let go half-way). also single-clicking on an icon sometimes registers as a double click which is insanely annoying.

has anyone here actually used a dinovo? the keyboard keys are flat notebook-style which is what i prefer (i can type about twice as fast and more accurately) but is it available without the mouse?

although i imagine a keyboard/mouse combo would be significantly cheaper...

nici · Post by **nici** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:08 pm

chylld wrote:
has anyone here actually used a dinovo? the keyboard keys are flat notebook-style which is what i prefer (i can type about twice as fast and more accurately) but is it available without the mouse?

Yes .^^^^. Initially i liked laptop keys, but when i managed to rip off some keys from the diNovo and broke the mouting thingies i switched to the microsoft elite and noticed i typed faster on that one even though i was used to the diNovo. So i guess its down to personal preference.. Or more accurately, i switched he diNovo or a cheap warped Ultra-X look-a-like wich i had lying around, and used the Elite for my other comp.

I haven´t played any games on the microsoft Elite though so cant comment about lag on that one, havent noticed any lag in windows though.

I never noticed the diNovo lagging when playing FPS games.

All things considered i don´t think you can go wrong with the diNovo bluetooth

The Ultra-X cordless might also be a good alternative, it looks quite nice and is a lot cheaper but i havent actually used one, cAPSLOCK seems to be happy with it though.

ki_cz · Post by **ki_cz** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:09 am

Looking aaround the net, the reviews are around 50/50. So guess it depends on your configuration. The problem is that I live in Europe, and they still go for over $250 here, so I definitely need to think about it. On anandtech, people are selling the bluetooth version for around $100 used, I'm just wondering if anybody knows why working versions are being let go for so cheap? I'm guessing that the used keyboard market drives the price down?

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:06 am

Some people are just desparate for $, and will mark down prices accordingly on FS/FT forums. The guy I bought my diNovo from had had his ad in the FS/FT forum at anandtech had been there for 3 months. I talked him down from $120 to $70. A lot of people aren't going to pay $250 for a used keyboard set. Logitech also has been reguarly offering rebates on the dinovo, so if you bought it on newegg you could probably get it for $150 or less after rebate.

Some equipment is considered "hot" like last generation video cards, Ipods, SLI motherboard.... Some people reguarly want such as SCSI drives or cards, Raptors, well-known gaming mice or keyboards... A lot of people, even computer saavy ones, haven't even heard of the dinovo, so even if the know it's BT that's not enough motivation to spend a lot of money on it. So the sellers try to get what they can.

ki_cz · Post by **ki_cz** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:40 am

Shadowknight wrote:Some people are just desparate for $, and will mark down prices accordingly on FS/FT forums. The guy I bought my diNovo from had had his ad in the FS/FT forum at anandtech had been there for 3 months. I talked him down from $120 to $70. A lot of people aren't going to pay $250 for a used keyboard set. Logitech also has been reguarly offering rebates on the dinovo, so if you bought it on newegg you could probably get it for $150 or less after rebate.

Some equipment is considered "hot" like last generation video cards, Ipods, SLI motherboard.... Some people reguarly want such as SCSI drives or cards, Raptors, well-known gaming mice or keyboards... A lot of people, even computer saavy ones, haven't even heard of the dinovo, so even if the know it's BT that's not enough motivation to spend a lot of money on it. So the sellers try to get what they can.

I just wish I could test it out for a week, so how much memory is sucks up, how slow the BT drivers are, etc. No dice.

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:48 am

It's a keyboard. It's no sucking up memory. I don't actually have any BT devices other than the keyboard/mouse, but it doesn't affect my performance anymore than my old RF wireless keyboard.

AndyP · Post by **AndyP** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:03 pm

Been using DiNuvo (non bluetooth) for some time now. Best thing about it is seperate number pad, so your mouse can be much closer to your keyboard. The keyboard itself is OK, but

1) Caps lock is easy to switch on.
2) Occasionally it will lock up and require a reset. Done this maybe 4 times in 10 months.

3) There is definite lag in games. Couldn't do the last bit of half-life 2 with the di nuvo mouse, after having completed it with my corded optical mouse. Rest of game was OK though.

Overall the bling and prettiness of the thing is just about worth it, but if it crashes one or two more times I just might go back to cords!!

ki_cz · Post by **ki_cz** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:28 pm

Shadowknight wrote:It's a keyboard. It's no sucking up memory. I don't actually have any BT devices other than the keyboard/mouse, but it doesn't affect my performance anymore than my old RF wireless keyboard.

I think it was more with the drivers that logitech provides than the keyboard itself. It's basically come down to this or the mx3100 series which also looks good.

AndyP wrote:3) There is definite lag in games. Couldn't do the last bit of half-life 2 with the di nuvo mouse, after having completed it with my corded optical mouse. Rest of game was OK though.

This is definitely not what I wanted to hear. Even though I don't play games, I use my computer pretty much 100% for design, and I think that lag would eventually drive me insane ...

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:03 am

ki_cz,

Sounds like you've convinced yourself that the diNovo isn't right for you.

That's OK. I'll keep using and enjoying mine.

ki_cz · Post by **ki_cz** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:30 am

dfrost wrote:ki_cz,

Sounds like you've convinced yourself that the diNovo isn't right for you.

That's OK. I'll keep using and enjoying mine.

I'm unfortunately going by user reviews online, but God knows that a lot of people out there don't know what they are doing, believe me, if I could be certain that my PC would work exactly as it does now, with the dinovo, I would already have it.

snutten · Post by **snutten** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:56 pm

The bluetooth edition MX5000 keyboard + laser mouse kicks serious ass. Very nice feel for typing, rather quiet too. The mouse received rave reviews eveywhere, even for gaming. Quite esthetic set too, in my eyes.

One problem is that the bluetooth connection can become unstable and lose its connection sometimes, so keep a secondary mouse nearby.

swaction · Post by **swaction** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:35 pm

I've got the plain vanila flavoured DiNovo and don'trun the software which was included... The volume + mute keys still work and the mouse is a bit lame but otherwise it's great.

Two thumbs up!