Passive, dual-monitor, fast graphics card - at a low price?

Keyz316 · Post by **Keyz316** » Sun May 04, 2003 4:25 pm

Hi all --

I'm still in the dark ages with my Matrox Millennium G400 32MB dual-head graphics card. It's worked well for many years - but it's come to the point that I can no longer play even the somewhat-latest computer games without major problems. I'm not an "avid gamer" but I do at least like to play now and then, and have it smooth and look nice when I do. So I need something new for sure.... I'm not sure what to get though. Within my budget of about $150, I'd like to get whatever is the fastest currently possible - I also need to have dual monitor support (I have a 19" Viewsonic PF795 CRT, and a 15" Samsung 151S LCD), and of course, it has to be passively cooled (preferably without needing special heatsinks from Zalman, etc). With companies like ATI releasing cards with newer version numbers, but the reviews saying that they are in fact downgrades it's become really challenging for me to sort out fact from fiction.

If you don't mind recommending your favorite place to buy stuff online in the USA that'd be nice too

Thanks!

fmah · Post by **fmah** » Sun May 04, 2003 4:30 pm

Check out the ATI card, also one made by other companies that use ATI chips like Sapphire. I see the Radeon 7000 and 7500 series are around $50, some will have dual monitor support.

See newegg.com where you can view pictures.

Keyz316 · Post by **Keyz316** » Sun May 04, 2003 4:38 pm

Remember I'm willing to pay up to $150.... are the 7000/7500 somehow better than "higher numbered" cards? (i.e. 9000, etc)

Post by **MikeC** » Sun May 04, 2003 5:08 pm

Keyz316 -- I've been a Matrox diehard for years -- going back to the original Millieniums nearly a decade ago (

). My Matrox Millennium G400 MAX is finally on a 2nd machine tho... An nVidia GF4600 w/128mb of RAM has been center stage on my main machine for a few weeks. I play no 3d games, but I have to say the smooth speediness is addictive. It is NOT as crystal sharp as the Matrox, but close. I can live with it fine. The big test comes next weekend when I go back to the Matrox -- it's my real-life test. A week back to the Matrox and I will know for sure which of these is the better choice for me now.

JimK · Post by **JimK** » Sun May 04, 2003 5:22 pm

If you can wait for a while for the reviews, Matrox has their new P650 fanless (and P750 w/noisemaker) at the introduction stage. See the SPCR homepage news items. I think the listprice is $165 (the 550 list is $125 and sells at ~$100) so it should sell around $140. I'm anxious to see how it does but since it is not a "gamer" some sites may not rush to review it.

Or you could buy one and review it for the rest of us

fmah · Post by **fmah** » Sun May 04, 2003 5:45 pm

Oh, I didn't notice you mentioned games. Unfortunately I don't see anything faster than a 7500 series that is passively cooled, except for the Sapphires that come with the Zalman style cooler already installed (but these are more expensive).

Justin_R · Post by **Justin_R** » Sun May 04, 2003 9:07 pm

If you are serious about wanting performance, you should get a Zalman ZM80A-HP ($25 at SVC) and then attach it to either a Radeon 9500 (the cheapest one at newegg is $138) or a GeForce4Ti 4200 (as cheap as $115 at newegg). Without the Zalman you'll be stuck with a factory passively-cooled Radeon 9000, which is a slower version of the Radeon 8500 (and both of which are DirectX 8 parts). The only reason you would want a Radeon 9000 is a) you're scared about wrecking your warranty by installing the Zalman or b) you like the idea of spending only ~$65 on your video card.

The GF4 is a great value for playing current games, and holds a small performance margin over the 9500 when special features like anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering are turned off. The 9500 should perform better for future games built around DirectX 9, as the 9500 is a DX9 part, while the 4200 is a DirectX 8 part. The 9500 also performs better than the 4200 with the so-called "eye candy" (AA, AF) turned on. Both platforms offer pretty strong overclocking potential which you should easily be able to take advantage of after installing the Zalman. If you want to hold onto this card for a while, spend the extra ~$10 to get a card with 128MB or RAM rather than 64MB. For some games it doesn't matter, but when it does matter it makes a big difference.

Either of these products should support dual monitors so long as the card has two connectors. Very rarely, a card will have two connectors but only support one monitor. This is the exception though, and generally if a card has two connectors you can assume it supports dual monitors unless it says otherwise.

FWIW, ATi cards are generally said to have better image quality (in 2-D and 3-D) than their Nvidia counterparts.

Note: the above is a distillation and summary of what I've read about the various cards in the reviews out there over the past few months; if anyone know better please correct me.

Keyz316 · Post by **Keyz316** » Sun May 04, 2003 11:02 pm

how significant of a difference is there between the Radeon 9500 (or 8500 even) versus the 9000? (there we go with the reversed version number confusion again, of course hehe). Would it matter enough to be worth the money and trouble to a person who just wants "good" gameplay (especially smoothness... detail is nice additionally but if it's not smooth then it can be just about impossible to play anyhow hehe). I'm guessing that no matter what I pick it's going to boggle my mind compared to the old Matrox anyhow hehe

I heard that also concerning ATI cards having better overall quality when considering both 2D and 3D.

So far as heat from a Radeon 8500/9500... is the Zalman ZM80A-HP really needed... or would one of the less extreme VGA coolers (i.e. ZM50 or ZM17) do the trick?

Thanks.

Post by **MikeC** » Sun May 04, 2003 11:09 pm

So far as heat from a Radeon 8500/9500... is the Zalman ZM80A-HP really needed... or would one of the less extreme VGA coolers (i.e. ZM50 or ZM17) do the trick?

I've heard this, with the caveat that you may need a perpendicular 80mm fan (a la Zalman fan bracket) with a low airflow fan depending on your case cooling.

fmah · Post by **fmah** » Sun May 04, 2003 11:33 pm

Gotta like the looks of this one, although you'll get better performance from 9000 series ATI.

http://www.amamax.com/vdinob555gfx52sa3xy.html

mahkum2 · Post by **mahkum2** » Mon May 05, 2003 3:36 am

Keyz316--There is a very interesting product coming up from sapphiretech which I think will be (hopefully) in your price range. It is here ...btw it is a product shot.
http://www.sapphiretech.com/media/9600/ ... elarge.jpg
It should be similar to the one they released last year whis is more expensive. review here
http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/Sapphire/sapphire9700pue/
Ultimate label on the former indicates that this 9600 version too will be passivly cooled. I couldn't find more info on the Sappiretech website except this product shot..sorry.

Athlon Powers · Post by **Athlon Powers** » Mon May 05, 2003 4:38 am

You could try one of these, I have it and am not dissapointed.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.a ... ADEON+9000

It performs very well also, be warned it's AA and AF stink so dont buy if you want that alone. If you wanted something higher powered look for that Sapphire passive-cooled Radeon 9700 Pro for about $320.

al bundy · Post by **al bundy** » Mon May 05, 2003 4:52 am

mahkum2 wrote:Keyz316--There is a very interesting product coming up from sapphiretech which I think will be (hopefully) in your price range. It is here ...btw it is a product shot.
http://www.sapphiretech.com/media/9600/ ... elarge.jpg
It should be similar to the one they released last year whis is more expensive. review here
http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/Sapphire/sapphire9700pue/
Ultimate label on the former indicates that this 9600 version too will be passivly cooled. I couldn't find more info on the Sappiretech website except this product shot..sorry.

I was going to suggest that one too, with a link. There used to be info on that 9600 Pro Ultimate card (not just a picture) at the Sapphire site, but apparently they have removed it (?) Not a good sign, I hope Sapphire still plans to offer it...

rpc180 · Post by **rpc180** » Mon May 05, 2003 5:07 am

I'm using the 8500 with 128 DDR. Its got a HP-80A aftermarket added to it also. Great colors and performance, I get resolutions up to 1280x1024 and 32-bit in Windows. My most recent game (FPS, No One Lives Forever 2, released in 2002 I think), highest resolution available is 1280x768 and 32-bit. The game runs without slowdown anywhere on this card.

Bad points. DVD playback with dual head setup. Whenever I had the dual system setup, DVD playback suffered by not displaying all the edges. I had this blocky/jagged effect on all movies that were played. I was using a dual CRT/LCD setup. I do not know if this affects current ATI 9000+ series cards. I also do not know if it was an issue I could get around through different software (since all I had at the time to play DVDs was PowerDVD).

I think the most recent, directx 9 version of the new series that incorporates this card's technology is the 9100-9200. The 8500 was ATI's 9700 of it's day so it had a lot of tech that the 9000 lacked. The 9000 even had a lower memory and GPU clock speed, reduced graphic pipelines, and lower cache levels. The 9000 was the replacement for the 7500 while the 9700's intended replacement was the 8500.

My reccomendation would be to go for a 9200 or a 9500 for the casual gamer. I think those pricepoints are much better than the 9700-9800. These cards are built to run games with the highest FPS possible with all settings turned on. These are dedicated gamers cards. While this is all well and good, one has to remember that some people in the Cyberatheletic Professional League have played AND WON with comps at 900MHz and GeForce 3 cards in recent (circa 2002 tournaments

)

mahkum2 · Post by **mahkum2** » Mon May 05, 2003 5:07 am

al bundy But on their home page (http://www.sapphiretech.com ) it says .....

IT'S COMING -The 'ULTIMATE' Silent Partner Is Coming!!!

I wonder what that is (9600 pro ultimate ?)..also check this out

http://www.sapphiretech.com/images/big-its-coming.jpg

supperman · Post by **supperman** » Mon May 05, 2003 5:30 am

Hi! The GeForce FX 5200 is from the latest line of nVidia cards and is passively cooled (has dual monitor out). It's a direct X 9 card, so it should last a while. My 2 cents worth.

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Mon May 05, 2003 6:10 am

supperman wrote:The GeForce FX 5200 is from the latest line of nVidia cards and is passively cooled (has dual monitor out).

Yeah, too bad it's performance sucks!

Here's a link to a review.
Also, check out this thread.
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... light=5200

For DX8 games, you should look around for a Ti4200 128mb (~$120).
For DX9 games, you should get a Radeon 9500pro 128mb (~$170).
Put a Zalman 80A heatsink on either and you have a winner.

That's my $0.02.

lucienrau · Post by **lucienrau** » Mon May 05, 2003 6:39 am

I have a 9500 non pro with a Zalman 80a on it and I'm pretty happy with it. It seemed the best price/performance mark for me and I haven't had a problem with 2d/3d or DVD issues.

ez2remember · Post by **ez2remember** » Mon May 05, 2003 7:27 am

Connect 3D ATI Radeon 9200 is cheap and fanless. It performs about the same as the Radeon 9000.

Not the fastest but by far the cheapest! It is about £50 in the UK, not sure in the US, this thing cost less than the Geforce 4MX series but is much faster.

I thinking jumping from a Matrox card you will be very happy with the speed and especially the price+silence.

bsdgeek · Post by **bsdgeek** » Mon May 05, 2003 1:28 pm

I guarantee you that if you leave your G400 you will miss the dualhead. Having said that, I think a P650 would work pretty well for you. It's going to be faster, or at least on par with a GF4MX, it's fanless, and it's got FAA 16x which doesn't take much performance away at all and it's gorgeous. The dualhead setup is still the best! Damn, now I know I want one.

DeadBySundown · Post by **DeadBySundown** » Mon May 05, 2003 6:28 pm

I feel that price/performance wise, it'd be tough to go wrong with an ATI 9500; seems to me that you're getting 90% of a 9700 for a little more than 50% of the 9700 price. Dual-head support and TV out, and it's definately fast enough to handle the current crop of games

I run a 9700 with a Zalman Z80A and am pleased as can be. With the 9500 at $138 from NewEgg, that's in your price target. If the stock fan is too loud, drop a Zalman on it, the installation is quick and painless -- nice kit.

Got my Zalman from Silicon Acoustics, $35; was pleased with the experience, I'd recommend them.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Mon May 12, 2003 11:18 am

http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/9600proult.asp

There's a link on the right that shows the heatsink dimensions.

Passive, dual-monitor, fast graphics card - at a low price?

Passive, dual-monitor, fast graphics card - at a low price?

nVidia?

Re: nVidia?

Official Sapphire 9600 pro ultimate site