Desktop Centrino - Online Petition

dago · Post by **dago** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:59 am

after discussing this subject in many different places, I started an online petition, available at http://www.petitiononline.com/centrino/petition.html

To: Motherboard manufacturers

Actually, the average computer user is led by simplistic ideas and marketeers to believe that the performances of a computer is directly propotional to the clock rate of the CPU.

This has the effect of neglecting the efficiency, which then causes higher electrical consumption and heat issues, both who directly lead to cooling problems and noise issues.

Intel, although pushin the 'get more GHz' trend, with announced pentium 4 CPU that will dissipate as high as 130 W, has developped from the ground a new line for laptops. This new CPU+Chipset line, composed of Pentium-M 'Banias' CPU with i855 chipset, sold under the 'centrino' name.

For example, those new CPU can reach the same performances as pentium4 rated at +700 MHz, while having about a quarter of the power dissipation of those P4.

This platform has also strong integration capabilities and can easily have integrated graphics, bluetooth, wireless lan and normal ethernet.

All that would make centrino based fixed solution perfect barebone or low noise solutions, with high performances.

Unfortunately, due to evident commercial and marketing reasons, intel do not want to push this solution for normal desktop users and reserves it for laptop and embedded market.

We kindly ask your company to have a deeper look at this platform, as you may eventually already make some laptops components, and to sell it as a fixed solution, at your consumer prices.

We also believe that such solutions may also raises interest of integrators and that the consequences, in term of heat and noise problems, will appeal to them.

Sincerely,

Click Here To Sign

As I think most of you have some interest in such a solution, you may want to sign it and eventually forward it or post it in some other place ...

marc999 · Post by **marc999** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:22 am

Excellent idea dago. Of course I signed it. One thing I did notice however is that my local computer store is selling the Centrino chips as Retail boxed. It says they are 479-pin Micro-FCPGA. So maybe there is a way to get this to run on a desktop, or else why would they be selling these as Retail box CPUs? Mmmm. Note the prices (in Canadian Dollars). They're expensive (not to say that it's not worth it though).
http://www.memoryexpress.com/FrameCPU.php

Goo · Post by **Goo** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:31 am

I don't know if this helps but Radisys is offering a microATX Pentium M motherboard on its website. No price is listed but is does mention the possibility of "fan-less operation using a passive cooling solution".

http://www.radisys.com/oem_products/ds- ... etsid=1158

Zhentar · Post by **Zhentar** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:44 am

someone should tell that place Centrino is the whole Intel set up, Pentium M is the processor....

anyways, I'll sign. At that link they've got the 1.4 for as much as a 2.6C which really doesn't seem all that unreasonable.

Post by **Rusty075** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:07 pm

I'll sign..... but,

I don't think it's addressed to the right people. It's not the motherboard manufacturer's fault that they're not producing centrino desktop boards. It's Intel's. Unlike AMD, Intel keeps a very tight licensing leach on who can use their technology to produce motherboards. If you don't do things their way you risk losing your license to produce Intel compatible components. Just ask VIA and NVidia what it's like when you get on Intel's bad side. (Remember that at one point the NForce was meant to be a P4 chipset)

A manufacturer of laptop boards could in theory make one of those boards ATX compatible. It wouldn't take much to do the conversion. But to do so would risk the consequences from Intel. They could lose their license altogether, or Intel could do to them what they did to VIA, and grant them a license for a new chip only months after it has been released.

The petition should go to Intel. But they'll just ignore it. If someone benchmarked a centrino desktop, and it beat a P4 or a prescott desktop, even though it was running at hundreds of Mhz less, people might start to think that perhaps there is something more important than clock speed. If people starting thinking that way it would mean that AMD was right all along, and that Intel had wasted a billion dollars worth of marketing money. Intel isn't going to open the door on that possibility. If you notice almost all of the ads for centrino notebooks don't mention the speed of the CPU. Because Intel doesn't want the comparisions made.

So rather than pushing a petition that Intel will ignore I advocate a different sort of consumer movement. A boycott. Stop buying Intel products. That's the only way to really get their attention. If I was in the market for a SFF or a notebook, it wouldn't be a centrino, a celeron, or a P4. It'll be an XP or a C3.

Goo · Post by **Goo** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:28 pm

Zhentar wrote:someone should tell that place Centrino is the whole Intel set up, Pentium M is the processor....

I did know that, since I have been laptop shopping lately, but since this is a silent PC forum I assumed that the easy cooling and low power requirements of the Pentium M was what people are actually after. In any case, I am sure that the item I linked to is being produced in low numbers and is probably too expensive.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:59 am

marc999 wrote:Excellent idea dago. Of course I signed it. One thing I did notice however is that my local computer store is selling the Centrino chips as Retail boxed. It says they are 479-pin Micro-FCPGA. So maybe there is a way to get this to run on a desktop, or else why would they be selling these as Retail box CPUs? Mmmm. Note the prices (in Canadian Dollars). They're expensive (not to say that it's not worth it though).
http://www.memoryexpress.com/FrameCPU.php

Actuallly, if you Google the Intel Boxed Order Codes you'll find lots of places selling the retail boxed Pentium-M CPUs. The 1.3's are in the $325USD range, the 1.4's are in the $275USD range.

Goo · Post by **Goo** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:26 am

Ralf Hutter wrote:Actuallly, if you Google the Intel Boxed Order Codes you'll find lots of places selling the retail boxed Pentium-M CPUs. The 1.3's are in the $325USD range, the 1.4's are in the $275USD range.

I had noticed that myself. I think part of the expense is the large L2 cache included with the chip. But the only board I've seen that supports this chip is the Radisys one.

Beyonder · Post by **Beyonder** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:50 am

Even though it's pricey for the processor, I think it's without a doubt the most horsepower you're going to get with the smallest possible heat dissipation, so.....I hope it makes it to the market. Hell, I'd gladly snatch up one of those mb's and a 1.4 Ghz for my server, which really is in dire need of a speed upgrade....

Anyone know the relative performance of the centrino with respect to folding versus say, an athlon xp? Just curious....

dago · Post by **dago** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:42 am

On the availability of retail pentium-M : I also went to my favorite webshop and found them for sale in boxed version. I sent them an email asking for motherboard which goes with those CPU ... waiting for answer, but as stated by someone else, p-M are tied with the i855 chipset ...

On rusty comments : I entirely agree with all you said and I'm happy you wrote it much better than I'll be able to do so ...
for my 2 cents,
- I stopped buying intel product for a long time and I am since an happy AMD customer. Also for my 'corporate' recomandations.

- Intel is also a MBoard manufacturer but they will never make a 180° turn.

- MBoard manufacturer are already building centrino laptops and have the knowledge and material to build desktop centrinos. Moreover, some of them recently ignored Intel request to 'disable' some feature in one of their chipsets for marketing reasons.

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:18 am

Mini-ITX motheboard running Centrino up to 1.6GHz and supposedly also offering support for upcoming 90nm Dothan next year:

http://www.lippert-at.com/miniitx.html

Radisys and Micro Industries have embedded ATX boards (very expensive and hard to get).

I'm sure there'll be more Pentium M action in the mini ITX form factor in the coming months and prices will come down when the newer 1.8GHz Pentium M's come out.

regards,
Halcyon

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:57 am

I got this quote from www.emjembedded.com.

Pricing has been released and the product is due to start shipping mid
November. I hestitate to give you pricing because Lippert has
instigated a
minimum purchase of 20 boards before we can place an order. It is
possible
that we may be able to get a few on eval.

Here is the prelimnary pricing:

1LITXTB ITX-Thunderbird CPU Board 507.00
1LCPU16 Pentium MCPU 1.6GHz FCPGA 614.00
1LCPU13 Pentium MCPU 1.3Ghz FCPGA 380.00

1LDD512 DDR-RAM 184 pin 512MB 153.00
1LDD256 DDR-RAM 184 pin 256MB 76.00
1LACOOL Active Cooler-Pentium CPU 20.00
1LITXCB ITX Thunderbird Cable Set 21.00

You will have to choose between a 1.6 or 1.3Ghz CPU and you will have
to
choose between a 512MB or 256MB DDR Ram. You must purchase an Active
Cooler
and a Cable set also.

I will see if Lippert will be lenient and allow us to purchase some of
these
boards for eval whenever they become available for shipment.

OUCH!!!

Does anyone know of a more affordable source that will ship to the United States?

-Ed

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:25 pm

This also begs the question:

Where would you buy a passive cooler for the Pentium M MicroFCPGA socket?

Lippert mentions having one, but their US distributer claims to know nothing about it.

-Ed

fmah · Post by **fmah** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 5:20 pm

Yeah, I wonder what the actual performance is versus a 1700+ (which are pretty darn cheap). An undervolted one can generate a fairly low amount of heat.

The laptop CPUs are sold separately since you are supposed to be able to change them yourself if you have a laptop with a socket.

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:11 pm

Do boxed Pentium M processors come with a HSF?

Where could I find a passive Heat Sink for Pentium M?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:04 am

Well, I'm attempting to purchase one RadiSys LS855

I'm hoping to get a decent price.

-Ed

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:42 pm

Well this further complicates things.

Intel offers both a Socket 478 and 479 versions of the Pentium M?

ARGH!!!!

The Radisys Mobo uses 479, and the Lippert Thunderbird Mini-ITX mobo seems to use Socket 478.

-Ed