Lippert Mini-ITX Thunderbird

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:39 am

Oy. the Lippert Thunderbird has some issues.

One really really annoying design, is the header for pwr, reset, LED is located right inline with the PCI slot. So guess what? Most PCI cards won't fit without modding something.

WTF was Lippert thinking?!

-Ed

Pakkapakka · Post by **Pakkapakka** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:56 pm

Edwood wrote: One really really annoying design, is the header for pwr, reset, LED is located right inline with the PCI slot. So guess what? Most PCI cards won't fit without modding something.

Any chance of posting a picture of it?

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:27 pm

I'll try to post a pic tonight

-Ed

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:30 pm

Could you post a pic of the bare CPU in socket (w/o heatsink) or speak of what holds the heatsink on?

That's too bad about the header... Maybe you could solder the wires to the pins and they would be less in the way?

Any sightings of the Radysis board???

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:04 pm

Soldering the wires to the headers? If you're going to that sort of measure, I think it'd be easier and safer to just take some needle nose pliers and bend the headers off at an angle to clear any PCI board.

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:42 pm

i dunno, i was just thinking soldering would be one less extreme than "modding the PCI card" - just realised he said "modding something" so it's not as extreme as I thought.

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:35 pm

I am going to either make my own shorter wiring interface (probably cut down those plastic thingys that house the thingy's that plug onto the pins.

Bending the pins will be option #2. I still can't understand why the hell Lippert thought this location would be a good idea. It's not like there's not enough room on the board, there's plenty of space. Longer traces would not cause a problem either. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

BTW, the Lippert Thunderbird's CPU is attached via four pins through mounting holes with a retention bracket on the back. Kinda like a mini P4 / Athlon. I'm pretty sure the mounting hole locations are similar if not identical to the Epia ones. ALthough, those only have two of them? I have no idea.

If I get that huge honking Passive cooler from Lippert, I'll be sure to post pics of all the naked Pentium M goodness for you all.

I may have to send this Thunderbird back for an exchange.
-Ed

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:00 pm

Grrrrrrr.

-Ed

Pakkapakka · Post by **Pakkapakka** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:26 pm

Edwood wrote:Grrrrrrr.

Ack! I see your point. The headers are also clearly visible in the picture in the datasheet. What kind of card were you planning to put in there?

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:03 pm

3ware 7410 RAID card. (this Lippert is destined for my server if it works properly.)

It along with 99% of the PCI cards out there would not fit without some modifications to something.

-Ed

wsc · Post by **wsc** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:43 pm

Ed - if you're skilled at soldering, you can get pins that are factory bent 90 degrees. I would be hesitant to desolder pins from a motherboard for warranty reasons, but it looks like you're faced with modification anyway. IMO replacing the straight connector with a 90* equivalent would be the most professional way to do it (I can't believe they didnt use 90* pins to begin with!)

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:06 am

OK, Lippert is impressing me less and less......:rolleyes:

The thunderbird is prepared for those sensors but because of the speed
stepping technology of the Pentium M it does not make sense to solder
the sensors on the board. The processor automatically slow down his
clock speed when become to much heat.

That right, kids. Lippert in their infinite wisdom did not put any sensors on the Thunderbird.

-Ed

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:53 am

Edwood wrote:OK, Lippert is impressing me less and less......:rolleyes:
The thunderbird is prepared for those sensors but because of the speed stepping technology of the Pentium M it does not make sense to solder the sensors on the board. The processor automatically slow down his clock speed when become to much heat.

Hmm... Doesn't this implicate that they just left the sensors out? So You (or someone) could add them? Might need a "fixed" BIOS though...

Cheers,

Jan

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 11:33 am

Yes, they intentionally left them out. This is unacceptible for such an expensive motherboard designed to be used in industrial and commercial embedded applications.

If you need the board in higher volumes it will be possible to build a custom specific version with soldered sensors. For this please ask our sales department for the necessary volumes and prices.

BTW, did I mention that there are no sensors for voltages in the motherboard too?

-Ed

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:09 pm

Well, hopefully RadiSys can get their board out in the market... for a cheap price.

Cheers,

Jan

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:33 pm

I'm still working on getting the Radisys LS855. Supposed to be available already.

Cheap? Nope. Will cost more than the Lippert Thunderbird.

-Ed

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:41 pm

Where are you looking for the LS855?

Radysis doesn't respond to my e-mails...

I don't think it includes a PCI-X 64-bit. I think the misleading picture with the larger PCI is a standard pic and has nothing to do with the LS855. It would be stupid to put one there anyway since the Graphic card's heatsink would just get in the way.

Edwood maybe you can answer this, why doesn't Radysis include support for either SATA or at least ATA133?

What's the point of even going Pentium M if the mobo builders are this stupid? (not the lack of SATA/ATA 133 but just everything)

P4-M looks like the best option for a sweet, quiet machine and
LV-671MA with MA-ATI for a good, silent machine.

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:11 am

Trip wrote:Edwood maybe you can answer this, why doesn't Radysis include support for either SATA or at least ATA133?

That's because they are using ICH4 for the southbridge, which has only ATA100.

Cheers,

Jan

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:18 am

and they couldn't use ICH5R or at least Via VT8235?

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:27 am

Trip wrote:and they can't use ICH5R or at least Via VT8235?

Combine VIA and Intel?

ICH5 is more expensive than ICH4, and I don't know if the southbridges can be changed to a newer one (I mean, AFAIK You can have i865 with ICH4, but not the other way around).

Cheers,

Jan

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:40 am

I guess there're always ATA133 PCI cards...

Using one would move the TV Tuner or Sound card to outside the case. Really though, who needs a PC sound card?

The real problem with an HTPC would be drive space though and ATA133 is more or less mandatory.

I wonder how loud 4 Spinpoints would be?

I can't see buying this mobo without going all the way with a great HTPC. Going solid state may be out of my sight though.

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:26 am

Trip wrote:The real problem with an HTPC would be drive space though and ATA133 is more or less mandatory.

Aah, now I understand...

ATA133 is NOT needed to use drives larger than 137 GB. This is a myth created by Maxtor. ATA100 will do just fine provided that the motherboard manufacturer has a BIOS that supports 48-bit LBA.

Cheers,

Jan

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 4:02 am

That's great news, thanks!