my fanless undervolted cpu, SOYO TISU motherboard and PSU

[dan]

i bought the SOYO TISU b/c anandtech called it the OC' motherboard but it has a bug in that when you reboot, it does not save the CMOS. i used a celeron tualatin 1100mhz.

pissed me off. i wanted to get a refund. SOYO said don't OC'. well duh.

one day i got tired of the fan and i wondered if i could undervolt.

it turns out the SOYO TISU lets you undervolt. so i undervolted all the way to 1.1 volts. (it will actually go to 1.025 volts but if i reboot it does not turn on).

according to SISandra, it uses only 14 watts at 1.1volts.

I then got adventurous, i removed the CPU fan, works ok with 100% stability, then the VGA fan, works ok, than the PSU fan in my 250 watt AOPEN case, and everything works ok.

I have a 100% fanless system. only my western digital 60bb and generic cd-rw is noisy.

it's actually quite nice, and i've converted from the religion of OC's to the religion of silence.

supposedly a 1Ghz Via C3 will perform at a 500mhz pentium 3/celeron 500, so why get a 1ghz via c3 when a celeron tualatin 1100 performs twice as fast, and can be undervolted to 1.1 volts, for 14 watts output?

i've had no stability problems. everything works fine.

[trodas]

I made my machine with VIA C3 1200Mhz with Nehemiah core and it don't feels much slower that my 1600Mhz Tualatin machine, however the tests show diferently, because VIA lack of CPU power

http://trodas.mujhost.cz/galerie.php?p= ... 7&d=1&v=v2

As you can see, even with these test, far bad for VIA, it get to about 700 - 800 Mhz Celeron II or Tualatin, if you want say that

But i can run my machine under full load for there days with temperature up to 65 degrees Can you?

[grandpa_boris]

i've had no stability problems. everything works fine.

when i first tried undervolting my quiet machine's CPU, i dropped CPU voltage from the default 1.575V to something very low, don't remember how low (it may have been as daring as 1.2V). windows booted. on advice from these forums, i ran prime95 in a stress test mode and the run had failed before completing a single complete calculation sequence. this conclusively demonstrated that while the CPU was stable enough for windows, it was far from working right. i kept bumping up the CPU voltage until prime95 managed to run stably for over 24 hours. i stopped at 1.475, far above my initial targets.

[trodas]

Yup, thats what i basicaly want to say

Don't get me wrong, dan - congratulations and wellcome into fanless heroes

But first give it a proper test And show some pics/testing results and temperatures iddle/burn As i said - i run memtest, with stress the CPU harder that CPU burn at max priority (witch i tought its the most feared one before) - and it also stress the chipset too - and on top of this, it checking for errors in memory/during operation
Get it there: http://www.memtest.org/
...run it for there days non-stop and then go to bios after reset and post us the temperature - in case it did not failed before

I got it W/O single error and after 3 days, the temperature is 65 degrees. I calling this acceptable and machine almost finished - just adding bigger HDD and another 512MB SDRAM DIMM, as one person mention that VIA C3 cannot handle more memory, so i want prove him wrong

[al bundy]

Hey dan, your system is 100% fanless, way to go!

I hope you will please let us know how the Prime95 test works out. My own processor won't go below 1.225V without causing the Prime95 test to lock the machine, so that only a CMOS jumper reset would unlock it at all. At 1.225V everything is stable though, even with extended Prime95 testing. I still wish I could run it fanless though, since I still need a 5V 80mm fan on the sink to keep the processor from eventually overheating.

BTW, could you please say what vid card are you using?

[Ralf Hutter]

dan - WELCOME TO SPCR!!!

Welcome to the world of undervolted PIII/Tualeron CPUs! They're a perfect candidate for doing this. All the ones I've used will generally run stable down to 1.25-1.30V, but it is very important to test them for stability with Prime95. Undervolting your CPU is just like overclocking it. You still need to make sure you're running stable, and add a little Vcore if you're not.

What are your system and CPU temps at idle and at load?

[dan]

hi,
well hi, thanks. no i've not run any stress tests. i just use windows, word, excel, and firebird, and i play a couple of games.

currently my video card is the matrox G450. doesn't support DVI though. I've also made posts on [email protected], under ensabah6.

uh my system temp according to the TISU utility is 47C. not sure what the Prime95 test is. i believe system temp is reported to be 27C

i eventually plan to get a fanless video card with DVI, one that is powerful, supports Direct X-9. and a new hard drive, either a

SPINPOINT P80 Or a Barracuda 7200.7

the WD60BB has a high-pitch whine that's annoying.

i got it down to 1.025volts but when i turn off the machine it refuses to boot, so i have to physically reset the CMOS. If i leave the machine on all day it seems to work.

SiSandra reports its power consumption at 12watts, 14 at 1.1volts

[trodas]

The Prime95 is mathematical test, searching for Mersenne prime numbers - if you are not a math geef, forget this
Just run it and see if it will work for you
Its a stress test, many machines did not handle - so they show that they are not stable

The temperature values, tough, looks pretty (almost unrealisticaly?) low What these will look, when you start either CPU burn or Prime 95?

[grandpa_boris]

The Prime95 is mathematical test, searching for Mersenne prime numbers - if you are not a math geef, forget this

prime95 verifies that the chip does what the chip is supposed to do when it performs complex operations. dan said he uses excel, which suggests that he'll have some math operations perfromed on data. while the main point of prime95 is indeed calculation of mersenne primes, its "torture test" mode verifies that the chip works correctly by checking every step in the calculation sequence against known and precise results. if the results deviate, then the chip is malfunctioning. this may or may not affect your OS' functionality.

sporadic, random chip errors will result in unpredictable and near impossible to diagnose symptoms. at best you will get a few odd glitches on your screen. or system will hang or crash. at worst, it will write garbage over valuable data that hasn't been backed up yet. it's a matter of what chances you want to take and what's at stake.

[grandpa_boris]

currently my video card is the matrox G450. doesn't support DVI though.

matrox is a fine card for a 2D desktop. some of the newer, more powerful matrox cards have DVI and are fanless. however, matrox isn't known for competitive performance levels on 3D games.

not sure what the Prime95 test is.

as mentioned earlier, prime95 in stress test mode subjects your CPU to a sequence of precise calculations and verifies the results. like overclocking, underclocking and undervolting cause the chip's gates to function outside of the design regime. this can result in gates flipping too early or too late or not at all. there is always some fluctuation in the exact timing of a gate responce. when overclocking or underclocking, we end up pushing the gates out of the optimal responce timing responce envelope. lowering and raising core voltage helps push the gates toward faster or slower responce. that's why overclockers over-volt.

when undervolting, we push gates toward the slower end of the responce timing curve. if we push too far, the chip fails to function at all. the trick is to lower the voltage enough to keep the power consumption lower, but with gates responding fast enough to keep up with the clock. if it's almost right, but some odd gate ends up not quite keeping up with the clock every once in a while, the chip produced odd glitches. prime95 seems to be the best available free tool to detect this misbehavior. by running it for a very long time (24-48 hours) and possibly combining it with other CPU stress tests i can assure myself that i haven't pushed the CPU out of the correct functionality zone.

i eventually plan to get a fanless video card with DVI, one that is powerful, supports Direct X-9.

a more powerful video card will result in more heat generated in the case. fanless and reasonably powerful cards exist, but it may be easier and cheaper to look for a card that is quiet, rather than fanless. in most cases you will need to pay more attention than before to the case ventilation.

and a new hard drive, either a

SPINPOINT P80 Or a Barracuda 7200.7

the WD60BB has a high-pitch whine that's annoying.

compare the power dissipation of the newer drives with what you have now. if you are running the box completely fanless, adding a few extra watts may be more problematic than it would be to for a regular fan-cooled build.

i got it down to 1.025volts but when i turn off the machine it refuses to boot, so i have to physically reset the CMOS. If i leave the machine on all day it seems to work.

SiSandra reports its power consumption at 12watts, 14 at 1.1volts

you may consider giving up on shaving down that last 2 watts and trying to improve air circulation in the case and experimenting with more effective heatsinks instead.

[johnc]

I have been using the Soyo TISU + PIII-S combination in 2 computers for more than a year. Both are undervolted and very nearly silent. They have been extremely stable. This combination is highly recommended. (I am sitting in a room with 5 active computers. The only noise I can actually hear is from the refrigerator in the kitchen down the hall. Need to undervolt it.)

The arrival of Pentium M chips for the desktop may signal a new round of computer building for me, but the current devices work very, very well.

[FrankT]

Good job dan! I have always heard good things about the tualatin series, especially the PIII. When I was building my system I tried to get parts, but good motherboards were impossible to get so I had to design with a P2.4B in mind (which is underclocked and undervolted). The PIII runs fast AND cool so with undervolting they are great candidates for fanless cooling.

[dan]

well even if my undervolted tualatin fails the prime95 test, i still plan to use it as it is. my excel use is limited to adding up my credit card bills.
i mostly use my computer to email, brows the web, and word processing.


thanks for the interesting discussion on gating and clock speed and volting.
i would like to shave off those extra two watts. i have thought about getting another heat sink, but i don't think heat is the issue, since when i first turn on the pc, at 1.025 volts, the heat sink is cold to touch and it still won't boot.

i have to boot it at 1.1 volts, and then reboot it, adjust the bios to 1.025 volts then it works fine, until i turn it off. then it won't boot so i have to reset the CMOS.

thanks for the warning on the card. i am unsure which DVI card i'll buy but i don't play intensive 3d games, i don't have the time for it. if i had time to play 3d games, i would rather spend my time excersizing. i do play solitaire and tetris. however, i might want a fanless direct x 9 video card
in case i get interested in playing the latest 3d FPS.

i eventually plan to chuck the HD for something more quiet, like the spinpoint sp80 or the 7200.7. does anyone know if samsung or seagate plan to introduce newer models in 2004?

i also eventually plan to upgrade my monitor to LCD/TFT as i do mostly word processing and text based reading. i was told by anantech and others that DVI definitely is the way to go for TFT, and what is most important for me is clear text, which DVI helps most.

hey it's good to know that your TISU is running after two years.
how long do these things last? there is a superstition that if you leave the computer on continuously 24 hours a day, it will last longer than if you turn it on and off daily. i ask b/c i don't think they sell TISU anymore.
not sold on ebay either.

i bought my celeron 1100a for $40 and $50 for the SOYO TISU at www.newegg.com. unfortunately they don't sell either anymore at this store.


i do not know if other i815ep B-stepping motherboards, such as the Asus TULC or the intel one supports undervolting. SOYO-TISU definitely does.

i had an aopen 440bx, so i simply switched components for everything else, even the case. i reused the memory, case, HD, CDRW, etc.
after about 2 years my aopen 440bx started acting quirky so i sold it, wouldn't always turn on, etc.

when the WD60BB powers down, the machine is so quiet, you can't even tell if the machine is on. you hear nothing. it is perfectly silent.

can you buy pentium M for the desktop? i'm afraid if and when my SOYO TISU breaks, it would be difficult for me to enjoy this kind of perfectly silent computing at such a low price.

how long do these things last? originally on the web the only material on the web was overclocking, and the aopen did allow for overclocking, but not undervolting. i mistakenly bought the SOYO TISU for overclocking, but it turns out i'm now strongly prefer silent computing, as i rarely play games.

the soyo tisu allows for OC but the rom bios doesn't keep the changes on reboot. it turns out there is a pin mod you can do on the chip.

i wonder if i were to overclock to 133fsb, to 1432mhz, whether i would need a fan to dissipate 30 watts, up from 14 watts.

[silvervarg]

well even if my undervolted tualatin fails the prime95 test, i still plan to use it as it is. my excel use is limited to adding up my credit card bills.
i mostly use my computer to email, brows the web, and word processing.

Prime95 does two imporatnt things for you.
1. It can drive your CPU very hot. This is great for testing that the cooling system you have can cool sufficiently.

2. It does lots of calculations and checks the results against known values. This will tell you if there is a small chance that calculations or other instructions can go wrong.

If you don't pass prime95 test for at least 10 minutes without errors you defenatly risk that calculations will result with wrong values. This might be shown with wrong results in Excel or the computer might crash or any other program might malfuction.
The only time I could possibly accept to run a computer with anything byt 100% stability is when I play games. For any real work I can not tolerate that there is a chance that any result turns out wrong.

i wonder if i were to overclock to 133fsb, to 1432mhz, whether i would need a fan to dissipate 30 watts, up from 14 watts.

With a good heatsink you can cool about 20W with passive cooling.
If you reach 30W you need to do heaps of modifications or run a very slow fan.

[dan]

this link
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/index.p ... did=177246

other TISU reports also report that TISu reports suspiciously low values for heat.

quote "The shown CPU temperature isn't right. I wonder that only some people recognize this fact. Isn't it strange that the
temperature is about 43°C after cold start and does not increase especially after overclocking the CPU from 1.0 to 1.4GHz. The Problem is that the environment controller inside the IT8712F on the TISU board is not configured right. This controller is able to measure the temperature by thermistor or thermal diode. The TISU-board uses the thermal on-die-diode inside the Tualatin to measure the CPU temperature, but the controller has settings for a thermistor. The voltage change of the thermal diode is very small compared to a thermistor. So the BIOS and the SmartGuardian show only few degrees temperature difference. The real difference is much higher, although, the Celeron is really suitable for overclocking."

quote "In the "PC Health Staus" screen, the CPU temperature shows 40C at startup, and 41C after warm-up, no matter what the FSB speed is. This cannot be right."

[grandpa_boris]

[...TISU temperature sensor lies....]

but does that really matter? if you touch the CPU heatsink and it doesn't feel painfully hot, it's probably under 55'C. if it doesn't get hotter than that, it shouldn't matter if the sensor lies.

[dan]

i agree it doesn't matter, only that someone asked me what numbers i got, i reported it, and they found them suspiciousl low. i guess it's something about SOYO TISU.


this forum is about silent pcs, and when i undervolt my celeron, my pc is silent b/c there are no fans, no PSU fan, no CPU fan, no system fan, no vga fan, only the high-pitch whine of the western digital HD.

in some respects i get to enjoy the benefits of the apple G4 cube without the expense.

[grandpa_boris]

this forum is about silent pcs, and when i undervolt my celeron, my pc is silent b/c there are no fans, no PSU fan, no CPU fan, no system fan, no vga fan, only the high-pitch whine of the western digital HD.

i agree. you have built yourself a fine near-silent system and i am sure that when you replace your WD drive with something like a quiet seagate, you will probably have a system that makes no noise at all. you did it on the budget. you took the system that most people would have upgraded to something quite over-powered and made it fanless and it meets your needs. that's what most of us are aiming for in our silent or quiet system projects: get the quietest possible systems that meet our needs.

[dan]

i am sure that when you replace your WD drive with something like a quiet seagate

here's the big question for SPCR

should my next HD be the seagate 7200.7 or the samsung spinpoint p80, both available from my favorite vendor, www.newegg.com? $80 isn't too bad, i can afford it, (though reinstalling everything is time consuming).
which of the two HD's is more silent, more quiet?

also, as it is now 2004, i wonder if seagate or samsung plans to introduce newer, more quiet models just around the corner.

[MikeC]

no contest: spinpoint p80 -- faster, quieter.