Quiet ATX Gamer, R5 Version

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:54 pm

Zenphic wrote:Excellent article, once again Mike. I wouldn't mind seeing these kinds of articles on a more regular basis. Perhaps you could consider posting a monthly or quarterly article on recommended components for a silent ATX, mATX and mITX system? Other websites, namely TomsHardware and TechReport, regularly post recommend system guides and I find these kinds of articles excellent. They allow me to keep tabs on the latest and greatest when I don't have time to read into everything.

I was wondering, would the Antec P100 be a good case for a quiet ATX gamer? It seems to be very well-priced silent mid-tower that has gone down to $80 during the holidays.

We do have just this kind of plan -- to refresh these build guides periodically as newer gen components come along. There are several more base articles to be done, tho, including SLI & Xfire systems, the latter with all discrete watercooling. You might see the WC Xfire article in as little as a week.

P100 is on our radar; we have a sample on its way.

quest_for_silence · Post by **quest_for_silence** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:05 pm

MikeC wrote:You might see the WC Xfire article in as little as a week.

P100 is on our radar; we have a sample on its way.

Thanks, in advance, Mike & Lawrence.

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:17 am

Zenphic wrote:I was wondering, would the Antec P100 be a good case for a quiet ATX gamer?

Antec has made good products in the past, and the P100 looks decent. My main gripes would be the leaky grills at the back (questionable cooling enchancement at the cost of increased dust ingress and noise escaping) and the rear-extracted bottom dust filter (cumbersome, as often the case is put against a wall or on a shelf etc.). Otherwise features look good with some room for improvement, but rigidity and actual sound and cooling characteristics can only be discovered via testing.

Edit: dang, just as I thought to finally write a reply as a keep-alive, Mike's on the case.

Mandor · Post by **Mandor** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:58 am

Hi guys,

I did my version of this build (see sig) and I'm pretty happy about it ! Other than the front R5 white fan that clicks a bit (even when at full speed can you imagine) and I'm too lazy to change it, it's great. Very impressed by the Strix; mine has no coil whine whatsoever and fan actually starts a bit later at 62-63C. Almost inaudible with the side panel on ! Tops out at about 1200rpm on firestrike, which BTW this machine absolutely eats (12k / 5.8k). Also quite pleased with the Raijintek cooler. Both fans are low power max 1k rpm 140mms, and while only one is PWM you can plug the other one on a casefan header and have it run at 50% which is almost silent. I chose to make the one in the middle of the case run faster so I don't hear it and it works quite well with the heavy R5 dampening material. For 50$ less than a D15 it keeps the lightly OC'd 5930k under 70C which is nice.

Looking forward to add another 970 when I get that sweet 144hz IPS ASUS

Dr Prozac · Post by **Dr Prozac** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:09 am

The R5 case is a really good product. Apart from some issues, it's made both well and with attention to details. It has a lot of space inside (probably because it's huge!), and with a modular Be Quiet! PSU I was able to achieve a very clean setup.

No need to write much more, SPCR's review gives a good picture. This guide, and the previous version helped me to choose components for my new build.

Now the problems with the R5 case:
1. HDD trays in my bottom cage are loose. There was noticeable rattling due to drive vibration (there are rubber elements designed to reduce vibration, but in case of this HDD they weren't enough). I easily fixed it with some tape and paper, but I shouldn't be forced to do it. The upper cage is fine. In the end I ended up suspending the drive (another DIY), because the vibration could be felt when touching various case elements (it wasn't audible, though)
2. The screws intended for PSU mounting are way to short. Normally they are twice as long. I wasn't able to use them. Fortunately Be Quiet was kind enough to provide not only normal screws, but also thumbscrews.

That's all I guess. The fans produce a clicking sound, but in my case it's very mild. Compared to an Antec TQ140, they seem to be more or less as good. The major difference is that the Antec fan starts at around 275 rpm, while the R5 fans start at around 420. But ~450 is quiet enough, so it doesn't make a real difference.

Krydel · Post by **Krydel** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:05 am

After many hiccoughs, i've finally got my take on this build. It took 4 exchanges of GTX 970s (3 strix and the 1 msi version i have now) to get one with little-to-no coil whine and a replacement EVGA G2 850w PSU to eliminate a loud electrical buzz, but i'm basically there!

3 Noctua AF-14 PWMs at 400rpm, rising to 550ish rpm under load keeps GPU nice and cool at 67C and even at 55-60% fans i'm comfortable with that noise level - i may yet toy with allowing the temps to go higher for the sake of reducing some noise, but the MSI GTX 970 variant is already much quieter than the Asus Strix which is ear-bleedingly loud in comparison! Dark Rock Pro 3 does its job very well, although the rogue 120mm fan has a quiet high pitched noise I can tell if i listen out for it, may yet look at replacing that one.

My question is; if i had a fourth AF-14 on the bottom on the case blowing upwards, will it add to noise? I recall seeing something in the article about adding one to the bottom with one fan in the front doesn't, but i'm not sure about adding it when it would be a fourth fan.

Post by **MikeC** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:15 am

Krydel wrote:After many hiccoughs, i've finally got my take on this build. It took 4 exchanges of GTX 970s (3 strix and the 1 msi version i have now) to get one with little-to-no coil whine and a replacement EVGA G2 850w PSU to eliminate a loud electrical buzz, but i'm basically there!

3 Noctua AF-14 PWMs at 400rpm, rising to 550ish rpm under load keeps GPU nice and cool at 67C and even at 55-60% fans i'm comfortable with that noise level - i may yet toy with allowing the temps to go higher for the sake of reducing some noise, but the MSI GTX 970 variant is already much quieter than the Asus Strix which is ear-bleedingly loud in comparison! Dark Rock Pro 3 does its job very well, although the rogue 120mm fan has a quiet high pitched noise I can tell if i listen out for it, may yet look at replacing that one.

My question is; if i had a fourth AF-14 on the bottom on the case blowing upwards, will it add to noise? I recall seeing something in the article about adding one to the bottom with one fan in the front doesn't, but i'm not sure about adding it when it would be a fourth fan.

Congrats! I'm amazed you had such electronic noise issues. We should run a poll in these forums to find how how many people are affected.

Regarding your question -- assuming all the fans are making the same level of noise, adding 1 to 3 is less of a difference than adding 1 to 2. Bottom position is also usually less audible. iirc, the bottom fan placement didn't help cooling very much, if at all.

jashcroft123 · Post by **jashcroft123** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:08 am

Hey,
This is my first time posting and I was just wondering what your opinions were on using noctua fans in this build. Also how did you decide on the R5 rather than the NZXT H440.
Thanks

Post by **MikeC** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:35 pm

jashcroft123 wrote:Hey,
This is my first time posting and I was just wondering what your opinions were on using noctua fans in this build. Also how did you decide on the R5 rather than the NZXT H440.
Thanks

If you read the article, you'd know the stock fans in the Fractal R5 are extremely quiet. The H440 doesn't compare for airflow, which is critical.

Krydel · Post by **Krydel** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:35 pm

jashcroft123 wrote:Hey,
This is my first time posting and I was just wondering what your opinions were on using noctua fans in this build. Also how did you decide on the R5 rather than the NZXT H440.
Thanks

I use Noctua fans in this build (3 x A14 PWMs using a phobya pwm splitter pcb) and achieve broadly similar results (see above post, 400rpm idle, 500-550rpm load) - i would wager slightly better cooling, though i've no desire to do extensive testing when everything works to my liking so take that assumption with a pinch of salt.

I owned the H440 before switching to the Define R5 and it is an instant improvement in terms of both airflow and noise (the lack of a window really helps with GPU fan noise). The H440 caused me no end of trouble (if you search through my posts, there's a large thread with everyone trying to help me out with getting better airflow in my H440 but ultimately I failed to be satisfied).

Blacky · Post by **Blacky** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:05 pm

Extremely useful article, thank you very much.

I was wondering if you had any issue mounting the Antec TQ140 front? It seems some people have, too little space…

Post by **CA_Steve** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:16 pm

Blacky wrote:I was wondering if you had any issue mounting the Antec TQ140 front? It seems some people have, too little space…

It's the same size as the stock fans..so no reason why it wouldn't fit.

Dr Prozac · Post by **Dr Prozac** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:29 am

It fits.

jashcroft123 · Post by **jashcroft123** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:47 am

Would any body consider using the Noctua NH-15D or do you thing its a bit over kill. I'd love to know whether it is the graphics card making the majority of the noise at idle because I would have thought that it would be the HDD and if that is the case it begs me to wonder what the noise level would be with just SSD storage

Post by **CA_Steve** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:57 am

I don't think the NH-15D will provide additional value. Let's compare:

cooler.JPG

The rest of the information you are looking for is on page 3 of the review (Baseline Noise). HDD is 14dB, gfx card is 16 dB.

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:53 pm

jashcroft123 wrote:Would any body consider using the Noctua NH-15D or do you thing its a bit over kill. I'd love to know whether it is the graphics card making the majority of the noise at idle because I would have thought that it would be the HDD and if that is the case it begs me to wonder what the noise level would be with just SSD storage

At idle, the GPU fan is not spinning. The HDD is at 14 dBA, the CPU cooler fan is <14 dBA, ditto the case fans. So no it's not the CPU cooling fan; it's the HDD that's probably the limiting factor. If you swapped it for an SSD, you might see a 1 dBA reduction -- maybe 2 if your room is quieter than our chamber. But at this point, the noise is so low that I really can't hear it unless I stick my head down next to the machine.

Dr Prozac · Post by **Dr Prozac** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:35 am

Dr Prozac wrote: Now the problems with the R5 case:
1. HDD trays in my bottom cage are loose. There was noticeable rattling due to drive vibration (there are rubber elements designed to reduce vibration, but in case of this HDD they weren't enough). I easily fixed it with some tape and paper, but I shouldn't be forced to do it. The upper cage is fine. In the end I ended up suspending the drive (another DIY), because the vibration could be felt when touching various case elements (it wasn't audible, though)
2. The screws intended for PSU mounting are way to short. Normally they are twice as long. I wasn't able to use them. Fortunately Be Quiet was kind enough to provide not only normal screws, but also thumbscrews.

That's all I guess. The fans produce a clicking sound, but in my case it's very mild. Compared to an Antec TQ140, they seem to be more or less as good. The major difference is that the Antec fan starts at around 275 rpm, while the R5 fans start at around 420. But ~450 is quiet enough, so it doesn't make a real difference.

A correction (after silencing the HDD and some more close up listening): one of the fans makes a clicking noise, it's definitively noticeable with open case. The other one is much better. With closed case and from some distance it's acceptable, though. (but for someone with better hearing, and/or at night, it might be a problem). I think that Fractal Design could improve QA, although I still think that R5 is a very good product, and worth it's price.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:32 pm

I am using the R5 in a new system, and I am looking forward to working with it. Looks like a great value - we got is for $100 shipped, which is a lot less than some cases like the Solo 2, and it has all the features we need.

Zenphic · Post by **Zenphic** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:09 pm

Any comments on how well/bad the hard drive trays of the Define R5 dampen idle/seek noise of HDD? It seemed especially bad with the Define R4 (in the SPCR's Quiet ATX Gaming Build Guide), but does the Define R5 do a better job here?

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:04 pm

I dunno if I would call the R4 HDD damping particularly bad. Most are not very good. R5 did seem better, but if you're planning to use lots of HDDs with the system in close proximity, be prepared to mod. That's just par for the course.

Personally, because I rarely use stock HDD mounting, it hardly matters to me. And I am so not into having multiple HDDs in my PC. For the better part of a decade, I've limited myself to a single large quiet 5400rpm drive and an SSD for the OS. If I need any more storage, it all goes into my NAS.

Zenphic · Post by **Zenphic** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:35 pm

MikeC wrote:I dunno if I would call the R4 HDD damping particularly bad. Most are not very good. R5 did seem better, but if you're planning to use lots of HDDs with the system in close proximity, be prepared to mod. That's just par for the course.

Personally, because I rarely use stock HDD mounting, it hardly matters to me. And I am so not into having multiple HDDs in my PC. For the better part of a decade, I've limited myself to a single large quiet 5400rpm drive and an SSD for the OS. If I need any more storage, it all goes into my NAS.

Thanks for the reply, Mike.

My current NSK3480 is superb at eating HDD vibrations. I hope the Define R5 will do just as well when I decide to upgrade.

What do you think of testing cases more closely in regards to hard drive dampening, either with more hard drives or with only the PSU & HDD running (no case fans running)? I think it's important to explore that because, in a semi-passive PC with no fans running at idle, the hard drive would be loudest component (either from idle or seek noise/vibration).

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:57 pm

Zenphic wrote:What do you think of testing cases more closely in regards to hard drive dampening, either with more hard drives or with only the PSU & HDD running (no case fans running)? I think it's important to explore that because, in a semi-passive PC with no fans running at idle, the hard drive would be loudest component (either from idle or seek noise/vibration).

We already report on the HDD tray/cage & mechanical aspects of the cse for their likely vibration resistance. We also install at least one and often more drives that are noisier than the ones we'd use ourselves, just to check on the noise. This is enough. You can extrapolate from our findings if you decide to fill the HDD cage... but common sense should tell you that if you want to run a bunch of HDDs in your PC next to you, you should do it only with a really sturdy case with a rigid, heavy chassis and very good damping. And be prepared for some audible noise from those drives; with lots of noisier drives. there's just no way to avoid it in about any case.

Zenphic · Post by **Zenphic** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:59 pm

MikeC wrote:We already report on the HDD tray/cage & mechanical aspects of the cse for their likely vibration resistance. We also install at least one and often more drives that are noisier than the ones we'd use ourselves, just to check on the noise. This is enough. You can extrapolate from our findings if you decide to fill the HDD cage... but common sense should tell you that if you want to run a bunch of HDDs in your PC next to you, you should do it only with a really sturdy case with a rigid, heavy chassis and very good damping. And be prepared for some audible noise from those drives; with lots of noisier drives. there's just no way to avoid it in about any case.

Good to hear that. Thanks for the quick reply, Mike.

I was initially leaning towards the Be Quiet! Silent Base 800 because of its excellent HDD rubber rails, but the SPCR review noted its faults in other areas. I will consider buying the Define R5 instead since I'm only planning on having 2 HDDs anyway.

dmitch · Post by **dmitch** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:53 am

Quick update for those with access to the german market: A modified version of this case (called Fractal Design R5 PCGH Edition) is available:

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/E-Commerc ... n-1164140/ (german)

According to the description, these are the modifications:

the top of the case is now solid steel, removing the opportunity for three three top-mounted fans
the fan mount in the side panel is removed
the whole interior is black (fans and hdd cages are white in the standard version)
one additional fan in the front
status LED is white instead of blue (blinking blue when there is hdd activity)

While they did not state this explicitly, the fans (see gallery) seem to be identical to the standard ones (except for colour). Retail price is about 100€. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I suppose this might be a good fit for people which can't decide between an R5 and a Solo II.

Enzo_FX · Post by **Enzo_FX** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:56 pm

Great looking case, it does feel like they just keep getting that much coser to perfection. For me it's so hard to justify a case with 5.25trays, good thing these are removable. One question however. Can dust get in where the optical drive bay covers are? It'd be nice if removing them allowed for an additional fan up there, along with filter. Or I guess the review pretty much said that 2 fans were the ideal setup for gpu temp's sake? Speaking of which, what happened to aftermarket vga cooling solutions? Do they no longer make sense given some card's low tdps? What about for those people that can't get a hold of such cards? Seems like coverage is spotty past few years, and I haven't kept up enough to know for sure. A quick glance at newegg suggests there are a good deal of options out there from reputable brands.

While I'm at it, as long as the component selection is sound, it wouldn't make a real difference if one were to go with the windowed version correct?

yakuman · Post by **yakuman** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:33 pm

Enzo_FX wrote:It'd be nice if removing them allowed for an additional fan up there, along with filter.

That's where the Define S version comes in.

Enzo_FX · Post by **Enzo_FX** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:58 pm

Oh man that just makes me realize how much space the drives use up. Debating going full SSD's next build. The FT05 looks perfect, but it's rather expensive. I don't understand the plastic top cover, or the mirror look at the bottom strips... It would just bug me.

hrronnie · Post by **hrronnie** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:12 am

I am planning to build this, but with a GTX 970 and a Intel Skylake 6700 (the locked version - coming soon)
I have these considerations/questions:

- PSU: Will a 520W be enough?
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Seasonic_ ... s_520W_PSU

- GPU: I am thinking either the MSI Gaming 970 or the Zotac http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1450-page4.html
Is this a choice between:
MSI: silent in idle but at load a bit louder than
Zotac: constant but very low noise

Thank you for a great site!

QUIET! · Post by **QUIET!** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:51 am

The i7-6700 is a 65 watt CPU and the GTX-970 is maybe 150 max. A 300 watt PSU would be a good choice if you don't have a lot of power hungry HDDs or something.

You fall in to that same zone as most people, relatively low power needs and a crummy selection of truly appropriate PSUs. I will probably wind up with a 550 watt PSU chosen for efficiency at idle as a compromise but it does feel like a compromise.

Mackan · Post by **Mackan** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:24 am

Hello,

1) Is it safe to say that with the right components, the R5 case would be the most quiet build possible?

2) When you talk about 14dB SPL, is that basically inaudible? And 16dB SPL, barely audible? (R5 during idle, and load). I really don't have a reference point for what noise is considered really "silent".

3) In relation to the first question. Is there any mATX or minITX build/case that can compare with this R5 build, in terms of noise? I assume in idle some systems can come close, but hardly during the load. For example, Sugo SG05.

Very happy if someone can provide input.

Quiet ATX Gamer, R5 Version

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