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Re: Thor's Hammer

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:17 pm
by Mats
burcakb wrote:I chose the Abit motherboard because it offers excellent cable routing. Unfortunately the BIOS is plagued with that darn uGuru chip and doesn't allow undervolting.
What about software like Clockgen or CrystalCPUID? I'm still kinda interested in this mobo...


Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:23 pm
by burcakb
The ClockGen for KV-Max (or something like that) works on this board. However, CrystalCPUID works best. You have to disable most of the uGuru controls however otherwise the board goes blaring alarms all the time.

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:50 pm
by Mats
So you can undervolt with software?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:34 am
by burcakb
Oh yes,

Right now, using CrystalCPUID, I'm running at 2100 MHz with VCore = 1.2V.

I also did 2300 MHz with VCore = 1.25 but I was using a Radeon 9200 at the time. R9700 doesn't like overclocking for some reason.

Temps are stable at 48C folding with the stock Zalman fan turning at around 200 rpm if uguru is to be believed. The intake & exhaust Nexus are turning at 700 rpm.

Again, using CrystalCPUID, the CPU drops down to 1000 MHz / 0.9V with a corresponding CPU temp of 30C.

CrystalCPUID gives me a lot more control than Cool & Quiet. Great program.

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:03 am
by Cams
Cams wrote:Great job on suspending the hard drives. I have two Samsung SATA spinpoints in my SLK3000B and they are the noisiest part of the system. I'll have a look round the hypermarket tomorrow to see what sort of elastic I can get. Then I'll attempt the same thing you did with Thor.
Success! I spent all afternoon tinkering after a bit of shopping this morning. I got something called Baby Elastic and basically used the burcakb Thor technique using curtain hooks with crocodile clips for grabbing the curtains. I took some decent close-up shots during the procedure to show how it was acheived and how to attach the fans with cable ties. As I said, I plan to do a web page over the weekend, but for now, here's a picture of the suspended drives. I used slots 1 and 4 in the cage and threaded the elastic through the screw holes for drives 2 and 3. I also moved the fan to the outside of the case.

The system is now inaudible from my chair :)


Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:07 pm
by Mats
burcakb wrote: I also did 2300 MHz with VCore = 1.25 but I was using a Radeon 9200 at the time. R9700 doesn't like overclocking for some reason.
Are you sure that the AGP lock works? I can't see on your pics which version it is. Maybe update to latest KV8 Pro BIOS and it'll work...
Some cards are very sensitive to increased AGP frequency. My 9800 Pro can handle at least 74 MHz but that is close to the limit, if your lock is not working then you had 76.7 MHz... to much.

Re: Thor's Hammer

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:22 pm
by rtsai
burcakb wrote:Note that the front fan is mounted on the outside of the case.
So are you and Cams just running with the front bezel popped off? Isn't that overly ghetto for such an otherwise nice case :lol:?

Or is there actually room between the case and bezel to accommodate the front fan?

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:40 pm
by burcakb
Mats, that's what I suspect too. This has the Pro chipset and it's a v 1.1 board so yes there should be a working AGP lock. And 5-10% overclock should be handled easily with even the most sensitive cards. Unfortunately, I know of no software that'll read the AGP bus clock directly.

rtsai, no there's enough space behind the bezel - but it's close. Unless you undervolt the front fan, the proximity to the filter makes too much noise.

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:47 am
by Mats
What BIOS are you using? Is BIOS correctly set? I can't remember if you have the option to choose between dividers and actual AGP/PCI frequency, but if you can then you might have forgot to change.

I'm not totally sure, but you can try SiSoft Sandra> Mainboard information> AGP Bue(es) on Hub 1> Speed

I lowered my FSB to 189 just to check, but mine says 74 MHz.... very strange. It doesn't match neither 6:2:1 nor 5:2:1 divider. :shock:

Well, time to reboot again and find out...

Edit: Well SiSoft acts a bit strange here. Now I'm running at 201 with a 6:2:1 divider but it says 80!! Now it matches the 5:2:1 divider. It also claims that max FSB is 166 and that it's too high (it's a 2500+). My guess is that Sandra uses the correct divider for the CPU at stock speed together with the actual FSB to calculate the AGP speed.
Don't trust it if you get strange numbers...

Re: Thor's Hammer

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:08 am
by Cams
rtsai wrote:Or is there actually room between the case and bezel to accommodate the front fan?
As burcakb says, it's close. I have to snip off the cable-tie end on the 8 0'clock corner of the fan in order to get the front bezel to close properly. Oh, and I removed the filter as I thought it would impede the airflow.

On my rig, there's probably room for the fan to remain inside as there's not enough play on the suspended drive cage to move forward enough to bump the fan. It seems to work fine the way it is though, so I'm gonna leave it where it is.

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:27 am
by burcakb
Mats, I use the latest BIOS, v1.9 I think. Two versions before, there wasn't an option in the BIOS for fixed AGP/PCI, just dividers. Now mine is set to 66/33 (fixed). If it's performing as it says it does, my AGP should be fine.

I don't trust Sandra. It says 66. not 65, not 67 - perfect 66. I doubt the lock/clock is that stable.

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:22 pm
by Mats
What about software like CrystalCPUID? No overclocking with that either?

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:07 pm
by mathias
Has anyone tried the drive cage suspension and regular suspension or foam? If so, is there a difference? I've drilled out the drive cage mounting point, so I could make room to put the drive cage on foam, but I'm skeptical if it'll work.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:59 am
by burcakb
mathias, I didn't quite understand your question.

The reason I did things this way is I wanted to use the cage as some sort of giant heatsink yet still have suspension. The heatsink part did work - marginally though. Those seagates run hot. Right now they run at 37C. I'm thinking of taking out the front fan with the next overhaul.

I've had limited success with resting on foam. My seagates are very noisy, one of them has that horrible buzzing sound when idle. Suspension and melamine tamed it but I fear putting it "on" anything. I wish I had access to sorbothane. I might be willing to try that.

mats, I can overclock the CPU, I have no problems. Problems start when I enter into 3D.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:28 am
by mathias
:? Heatsink? But it doesn't actually make contact with the metal, are you sure the temperature drop isn't just because it allows airflow all around the drives? I've had temperature improvements from using little pieces of foam to elevate drives and leave a tiny bit of air space underneath most of the drive.

My question was if the drive cage suspension is at all louder or quitter than drive suspension or foam.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:52 am
by burcakb
The drive cage suspension shouldn't be any different than drive suspension - it makes zero contact with the rest of the case.

I didn't have any good foam that gave me equivalent results of suspension. If I had sorbothane....?

The drives DO make contact with the cage - the screws are the usual ways such contact is made :) I don't really know how much an effect it made, I just hope it did.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:12 am
by mathias
But there's rubber grommets separating the screws from the cage.

On page 1 Zoob says his SX1030 drive cage does amplify noise despite being decoupled from the rest of the case.

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:51 pm
by Mats
burcakb: How would you describe the noise from your PSU? At what distance can you hear it?
If a PSU like that is ducted, how much power can it give and still be safe? Quite hard to answer...
Others with Seasonic/Panaflo may answer too. :)

Does anybody know if there's some difference between the stock fans in different Super Silencer models?
I'm really interested in the 460 W model, I could easily go for 350 or 400 W which should be enough but they aren't available in Sweden AFAIK... :?

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:12 am
by burcakb
Very late at night (3 am) in a quiet neighborhood, if you listen reaaaaly carefully, you can make out a faint tick from the PSU fan and some airflow noise. This is at about 1 meters from the front of the case. Usually it competes and is overridden by hdd noise. Mike had a note in the box that said it wasn't the best M1A he had so if you've got a nicer fan, you may get better results.

As for safe, the Seasonic manual states that the PSU power drops from 100% at 40C to 80% at 50C. This is not anywhere on their website btw. Considering the slightly warm air that comes out, I'd guess that it's operating at about pretty much near the 100% mark.

As for ducting, I'd say try it. In a quicky project (somewhere in the Gallery section titled Ghetto-mod Extreme), I tried pulling back the PSU a little to muffle exhaust airflow noise but got an increase in noise due to resonance of air hitting the walls. You'll need to dampen any duct to keep noise down and remember that the fan doesn't have great pressure capabilities at 5V.

mathias, you're right. So much for my hopes....

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:05 am
by Mats
Thanks burcakb!
Mike had a note in the box that said it wasn't the best M1A he had ...
Yeah, he kept the best one for himself, of course! 8)

If I buy one I'll first run it as it is just to make sure it's ok, then put the stock fan to 5 V. Later on when I get a better fan I will use that one instead. Can't find any M1 here in Sweden right now, and L1 is not enough I guess.

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:38 am
by burcakb
You really don't need the very absolute best M1A. really. (btw, Mike said, it was the one he had. Considering all the trouble he went to get me this PSU, i doubt he'd pennypinch. I felt I had to note this down even though I know you're in jest) That "not-so-good" M1A is MUCH better than the M1A I have and I really have to strain to hear it.

If the M1A is hard to come by, try Yate Loons or sleeve bearing medium globes. Those are usually easier to come by. The sleeve Globe M fan is nearly identical to M1A. Yate Loons I found to be a bit faster/noisier but they undervolt well and are usually well-balanced.

Even with an efficient PSU like the Seasonic, I'd be weary of an L1A. There's still warm air coming out, I suppose an L1A would have to run @ 7-9V at least to keep up.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:21 am
by burcakb

Thor finally received a new cooler - a Thermalright XP-90 with a nice Nexus 92mm on top. I did away with resistors & fanmates and connected the fan to the CPU fan controller on the board. At 12V it has the same noise as the Zalman at 5V and I've configured the BIOS to run it at 8V until CPU reaches 60C.

I also finally figured out how to overclock this CPU. I realised I didn't touch the Hypertransport while overclocking and that was the limiting factor (I even emailed Abit but THEY didn't suggest it either :roll: )

So I upped the core voltage to 1.35V (stock is 1.5V), reduced hypertransport to x4 and overclocked the FSB to 240 MHz.

Right now, Prime95 has been chugging along for 40 minutes with no errors. The Nexus fan is turning at 1144 rpm, CPU is 55C @ 2400 MHz and ambient is 27C. Considering higher ambients during summer, I'll stop overclocking right now. 20% overclock with no noise penalty is excellent in my book.

Pictures with the Thermalright will follow later.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:57 am
by Wedge
That's pretty sweet, burcakb. So, how fast is that effectively? (Forgive me if you have mentioned this elsewhere in this thread. I have read through once but don't remember seeing it).

I notice you have the 9700 pro at non-pro speeds. Do you game at pro speeds? You could use Radlinker for any over or underclocking on an application-specific basis. And, btw, which games are you playing right now? :twisted:

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:53 am
by burcakb
Currently the CPU is at 2400 MHz. That's the equivalent speed of Athlon64 3400+ 8)

I can overclock the Radeon to 350/300 (I love ATITool) but really, I don't game much and when I do, the difference is negligable for me. In fact, I usually downclock to 215/215 to keep the case cool and forget to clock back up :)

I usually play Combat Mission in all its flavors. When I feel like releasing a bit of stress I fire up Far Cry or Call of Duty for an hour or so max. A few years ago I was an avid Counter-Strike player but I've given up. Online combat requires too much time to keep in proper shape.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:36 am
by ilh
burcakb wrote:Currently the CPU is at 2400 MHz. That's the equivalent speed of Athlon64 3400+ 8)
No it isn't. A 3500+ is at 2200 MHz. That's 3800+ speed.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:25 pm
by Wedge
ilh wrote: No it isn't. A 3500+ is at 2200 MHz. That's 3800+ speed.
:shock: even better

I have thought about giving up gaming altogether because it does take up time that I could be using for more productive things. But then again, I always remind myself the old addage "all work and no play...." because I believe that holds true. Stress relief is a good thing.

Awesome job on the rig. Keep us posted of changes.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:01 pm
by Mats
ilh wrote:
burcakb wrote:Currently the CPU is at 2400 MHz. That's the equivalent speed of Athlon64 3400+ 8)
No it isn't. A 3500+ is at 2200 MHz. That's 3800+ speed.
You're wrong, he have a S754. 3400+ runs at 2.4 GHz.

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:22 pm
by dukla2000
burcakb wrote:So I upped the core voltage to 1.35V (stock is 1.5V), reduced hypertransport to x4 and overclocked the FSB to 240 MHz.
Do you set these parameters in the BIOS or with CrystalCPUID? (Reason being I may be able to get a KV8-Pro real cheap and am thinking of getting a Sempron E6 and going 64 bit. Except being linux I wont have CrystalCPUID! The KV8 manual I downloaded only shows FSB BIOS adjustment as far as I read.)

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:36 pm
by iakovl
nice work man

but i need to know.... how thick is the foam
i need to know becouse i want to do a full foam work for my 6A19
(and ppl here don't really help )