My very first "built by my own" computer :)

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:33 pm

Kate wrote:I am really afraid of cutting it tho... and plus I would have to take it all apart!!

Cutting the grilles is a pretty well established technique around here, but ultimately you need to be happy with what you're doing. Maybe in your next build...

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:08 pm

Ok,

Finally finished assembling it, there are some (major) parts missing...

I am still waiting for my video card to arrive, so meanwhile I am using a friends ATI 3870...

I had some problems with the RAM.. called Corsair, they advised me to setup manually for 9-9-9-24, set the memories to 1.80v and 1600 mhz... Crazy things! Never did that before, thanks to Corsair people they managed to guide me thru step by step....

During installation I had to call Microsoft support twice, apparently Vista Ultimate X64 cannot be installed when the computer is populated with more than 3 gbs of Ram, they sent me this fix:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929777

So I had to remove all the memoris, just left one "slot" of 2gb, re installed vista, downloaded the fix they sent me, turned off the computer and re installed the ram...

After installation, came the dreadful updates, a lot of them, but I noticed it was VERY slow, the spinning ball would actually stop spinning for a bit, while acessing the hard drive... Took two hours for the 1st step, then it rebooted and vista didnt work anymore! It got stuck at startup...

Time to call Microsoft, but this time... No help, they couldnt figure it out, called evga guys...

To my surprise they told me to go to the setup and disbale Jmicron and it worked!

Almost done, still downloading SP1, and I just ran coretemp, and got screen shots.. The computer was idle looks a bit hot tho....

Also... I am getting strange little lock-ups from time to time, the computer gets a bit slow and internet stop working, I have to reboot to make it work again, not sure if it is windows or evga problem...

I am trying to finish the SP1 update before jumping into conclusions!

YAY! I've been learning a lot of new stuff...

I thought the temperature would be lower with the Xigmatek cooler!

ACook · Post by **ACook** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:51 pm

I'd start with a simple xp32bit install, get everything working, good temps etc, so you'd know the hardware basically is good.

Eyedolon · Post by **Eyedolon** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:01 pm

I'd wait until updates are done, drivers are all fresh and current and everything's where it should be before you start wondering about the state of the machine.

I'm assuming 790i drivers are in and current (from EVGA? I thought you bought XFX?), GTX260 drivers from Nvidia are in and current? Wait, never mind, 3870 in there right now. I wouldn't bother installing the drivers for that, in fact I personally wouldn't put the damn thing in my machine (personal grudge against ATI). I might unplug one of the monitors for the time being seeing as you're running Microsoft drivers and not optimized drivers (well, if Catalyst can be considered "optimized").

WTB more technology porn. I want to see the guts! lol

Remember your case is optimized for noise first, cooling second. 50*C is also not terrifically hot. As you can see, the Max setting is a full 100*C, although it's probably not ever going to hit that high if everything's installed properly.

Lookin hot! If the temps stay like that I may well get a 182 for my rig, 10* warmer CPU is a fair trade off for a quiet rig -- is it quiet? Granted you have a terrible ATI fan design in there creating a racket, but I'd suspect you have a decently good idea of the noise level of the parts by now.

EDIT: ACook: I've done a 32XP to 64Vista before - not ever going to do it again. My laptop never really recovered. When I built my desktop I threw Ult-64 in fresh and had no issues, and I suspect once all the drivers are in (Especially Nforce for the 790i) hers will vanish as well.

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:17 pm

Acook,

I do not have XP... Actually I had to buy the Vista Ultimate, to install in this machine, I only had the older Dell Disks and a Sony Vaio Discs, but Im pretty sure it would not work with this computer...

Eyedolon,

I got all updates done, system is pretty good now, no crashes and lock-ups so far!

Yes i got all the new drivers from EVGA, and also the bios update (done with the evga guys), yes I am running catalyst too... I have nothing against ATI, I just dont like it because I cannot run 2 or 3 monitors full resolution when I need, thats why I abandoned ATI.

I will take photos from the inside and post it here!

I read somewhere that with xigmatek i should get 30 to 40c idle... Not sure if I ever can get to that, but as long as it doesnt overheat im fine.

ATI is very noisy, when the vga fan is stopped I cannot rear a thing! Hopefully nvidia cards will make less noise than ATI's....

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:36 pm

That's kinda pathetic, having to remove RAM to install a 64bit OS. i currently have 6gb of RAM, and knowing i'd have to take out half that to install vista is a horrible turn-off. i'll stick with Ubuntu for now, and XP x64...i sure hope that doesn't have any problems with the RAM...that would be horrible.

my only question is what you think of your CPU, because it turns out i may be getting a dell with the same CPU...i'm not sure of the other specs though, so I dunno what to think of it.

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:56 pm

Hi there, just a correction...

The fix is not only for x64 it is also for vista x32...

read the microsoft link here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929777

Eyedolon · Post by **Eyedolon** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:43 pm

bones I don't think you caught the drift. It's not to *run*, just to install. Once the patch is applied, you slap the sticks back in and go.

They should really slipstream it in with newer discs though.

Kate - You may have nothing against ATI.. I do =)

The sleeve coolers on the 260s are very quiet. I'm a big fan. (lol) Also from my memory the 3 series was pretty much a brute force attempt to give Nvidia competition, it ran hot and loud. The 4s are at least refined hardware, even if ATI still has not figured out how to write drivers. At least they don't wipe out hard drives like what happened to me back in the day. Maybe one day they'll get to the acceptable level of performance.

Be sure to uninstall Catalyst and registry sweep out everything ATI before you power down the computer to put the Nvidia in. Don't forget to do this or all hell will break loose. This isn't me as a green team fan, this is Vista's driver interface. It's bad practice to have drivers for different graphics cards anyways, but especially so in Vista.

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:36 pm

My first "FF"

Computer is on, fans were spinning...

Same photo, slower speed

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:39 pm

Eyedolon wrote:
Kate - You may have nothing against ATI.. I do =)
...
The sleeve coolers on the 260s are very quiet. I'm a big fan. (Be sure to uninstall Catalyst and registry sweep out everything ATI before you power down the computer to put the Nvidia in. Don't forget to do this or all hell will break loose. This isn't me as a green team fan, this is Vista's driver interface. It's bad practice to have drivers for different graphics cards anyways, but especially so in Vista.

Thank you Eyedolon,

Ill do that for sure! Just waiting for my vga to arrive...
I still do not understand why sometimes windows vista gets slow, the sound stutters a bit and I loose internet connection...

Will try contacting EVGA tomorrow....

Eyedolon · Post by **Eyedolon** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:22 pm

Fully Functioning HOORAY!

I see the word stutter and the first thing that comes to mind is SSDs, you're not using them though, right? (Solid State Disk)

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:07 pm

Hello Eyedolon,

No im using regular HD... I think I figured it out... I changed two things...

1- made a full reset on bios, followed the instructions @ the evga forum...

2- changed this tREF to 7.8ns instead of the auto 7.7ns, also mentioned in the evga forum....

Not having that issue anymore...

Problem is.. since i did the two things at the same time I do not know what I did to solve the problem...

Eyedolon · Post by **Eyedolon** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:15 pm

Important more that the problem is solved, no?

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:23 pm

Yes!! Solved!!

However I still want to understand better what I did.. I want to know what that tREF means and all the other stuff... Learning is the key!

For everything it has to be a reason, I could understand why corsair asked me to setup the memories at 1.8v 9-9-9-24 and 1600mhz, that wasnt really hard to understand... The evga detected it at 1060 mhz 1.5v 7-7-7-20 and according to Corsair the memory is to be used at 1600mhz 1.8v...

But I am downloading some papers about this numbers, I still want to better understand all this stuff, it will take some time but Ill surely learn!

There are so many things to learn in this field, that it is becoming fascinating... I am even thinking of building a very silent passive cooled computer in a p150 chassis in my room...

Still have to research the coolest and quietest components to do that task...

One thing at a time tho... First I need to get this computer ready to work!

ACook · Post by **ACook** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:01 am

Eyedolon wrote:EDIT: ACook: I've done a 32XP to 64Vista before - not ever going to do it again. My laptop never really recovered. When I built my desktop I threw Ult-64 in fresh and had no issues, and I suspect once all the drivers are in (Especially Nforce for the 790i) hers will vanish as well.

I'd never suggest anyone do the upgrade path from xp to vista, it's just a temp install, you can play around with the xp install, get that stable, get to know the hardware with what should be relatively safe drivers, know its limits temp/noise wise, then start with a fresh vista install.

If you've grown up with vista and know alot about it, perhaps that's the better way. I haven't, so I'd always start with an xp install, at least I know that better, and trust it alot more.

moot point since kate doesn't have xp. although neither do I. or vista. or w7 ...

trandy1001 · Post by **trandy1001** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:59 am

Careful, a computer hobby can grow to be very expensive and take up a lot of space. But you have one leg up in that
A) you enjoy silent computing so the noise won't be an annoyance and
B) you are a girl so it's much less likely that you will have an angry girlfriend/wife to deal with when you constantly buy new computer stuff.

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/s ... p?t=170999 is a good resource for ram timing reference.

Unless you plan on a completely fanless build or a near silent heavy duty gaming machine (why would you with such a nice system already on the setup), finding parts to make a near silent computer should be a breeze. Especially if you keep coming back to these forums

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:24 am

trandy 1001,

A- Noise will alaways annoy, the good thing is that we can listen to nice music while using the computer.

B- LOL, I bet that if I had a husband he would complain if i started spending a lot of money with computers, the same way my parents complain!

Thank you very very much for the link, it was informative, I found a lot information in other forums tho, especially the corsair forum, however, they do not let me register! They give me message " Registration denied, this forum runs an active policy of not allowing spammers. Please contact us via the "Contact Us" page link if you believe this is in error "

I tried contacting the Corsair Support Forumtwo weeks ago, but didnt work, they still think I am a spammer! Well its a shame, guess Ill have to post my questions somewhere else.

Jipa · Post by **Jipa** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:30 am

Did you try to register using a hotmail-account or something? I've seen forums where you need a non-mainstream mail account to register.

And do you really reckon the three 40 mm fans on the ram-cooler are quiet? :O I've always thought those are noisy as hell...

Also the 3 GB memory limitation seems weird as I installed Vista 64 to my dad's rig with 4 GBs and had no troubles whatsoever. Maybe I missed something?

Annnnnd I guess I had some other thoughts as well.. Hmm.. Can't remember anymore. OH I DO, it might be that either you had bad luck with the processor or the Xigmatek, as both CAN be very crooked if you get unlucky. -> Bad contact -> high temperatures. Or then the other temperatures were achieved running the fan at 12 V and you're using a fan controller that aims to keep the temperature under 60 C or something?

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:49 am

Hello Jipa,

Actually no... I tried to use my own email, the same email registered in this forum! Funny is that I tried to contact corsair, and they never replied back!

I cannot say they are quiet, but they dont make a lot of noise too... The VGA makes a lot more noise than the ram cooler, I set up the ram cooler to run at 50% and I couldnt hear it!... however i removed the ram cooler, simply because since I am not overclocking the ram the cooler is not needed.

I just checked the temperature right now, it is 52-40-48-46 (each core) not sure if those temperatures are normal tho...

See, at least in here ( http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929777 ) it says:

When you try to install Windows Vista, you may receive an error message that resembles the following:

STOP 0x0000000A (parameter1, parameter2, parameter3, parameter4)
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

This problem occurs if the following conditions are true:

-The computer uses more than 3 GB of RAM.
-The computer uses a storage system that is running the Storport miniport driver.
-The computer uses a controller that uses 32-bit direct memory access (DMA).

Maybe it is a problem with evga/nvidia motherboards? But I called microsoft and they sent me this link, it didnt even take 2 minutes for them to find the problem, so I am pretty sure they are aware of the problem.

They only asked for the prodcut id, memory type, motherboard brand name and model....

I still havent found enough data, but I suspect that the termal paste I am using is not good, I am using OCZ thermalfreeze, I didnt want to buy the silver one, because I read it is dangerous is misused, short-circuit i think...

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:22 am

Kate wrote:STOP 0x0000000A (parameter1, parameter2, parameter3, parameter4)
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

This problem occurs if the following conditions are true:

-The computer uses more than 3 GB of RAM.
-The computer uses a storage system that is running the Storport miniport driver.
-The computer uses a controller that uses 32-bit direct memory access (DMA).[/i][/color]

Maybe it is a problem with evga/nvidia motherboards?

No, it is the JMicron controller using 32-bit DMA. I had the problem in my Abit IP35-E with 8GB and running OSX. Those crappy JMicron controllers are used everywhere--several external USB-2-SATA adapters have them.

Monkeh16 · Post by **Monkeh16** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:14 am

QuietOC wrote:
Kate wrote:STOP 0x0000000A (parameter1, parameter2, parameter3, parameter4)
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

This problem occurs if the following conditions are true:

-The computer uses more than 3 GB of RAM.
-The computer uses a storage system that is running the Storport miniport driver.
-The computer uses a controller that uses 32-bit direct memory access (DMA).[/i][/color]

Maybe it is a problem with evga/nvidia motherboards?
No, it is the JMicron controller using 32-bit DMA. I had the problem in my Abit IP35-E with 8GB and running OSX. Those crappy JMicron controllers are used everywhere--several external USB-2-SATA adapters have them.

There are worse devices to have. Like Marvell.

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:27 pm

QuietOC,

Strange! If it was the case, just disabling jmicron feature ate the bios, should solve the problem no? However, as microsoft pointed me, when i removed all memories but one, i could install vista perfectly!

Then after appling the patch, I re-installed all the rams, and it was fine...

I disabled the Jmicron feature because the harddrive access was slow and the computer kept hanging from time to time. Especially during SP1 update.

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:29 pm

Kate wrote: I disabled the Jmicron feature because the harddrive access was slow and the computer kept hanging from time to time. Especially during SP1 update.

Yes, it can work okay until the OS and the controller try to access the same chunk of memory. The alternative solution is to keep the computer from using that chunk of memory--this is what Microsoft decided to do for 32-bit Windows.

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:04 pm

QuietOC,

hmmm.. interesting... new information for me!

-----

Anyways, my brother came home today, and I bugged him to death to help me with the cables... and here is the result...

Unfortunatelly, just like he said, there is nothing much that can be done to completelly get rid of all the cables...

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:48 pm

oh ya! I forgot to mention

I do believe I am starting to get addicted... sometimes I get myself thinking on how to lower down the noise and excessive heat...

Eyedolon · Post by **Eyedolon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:52 pm

It's a downward spiral (of decibels haha!)

For us with power rigs, the heat is relatively unavoidable.

Noise on the other hand... You removed the RAM fan (see, told you so!), so that's done with. Next step is silent mounting the HDD, or possibly replacing it with a SSD or two (NewEgg lists the Intel X25-M in the 300 range last I checked), which would cut a whopping chunk out of the noise. I do believe my hard drive is louder then my 260s.

Of course, you're rapidly running into diminishing returns. Although booting Vista in 8 seconds is mad awesome, not sure it's really worth it. I'd say wait till the GTX is in, see if it's acceptable and go from there. Although if you can, silent mounting (soft mounting) the hard disk is very inexpensive and apparently works wonders in quieting the damn thing down.

Damn it hurts to see this come together, because it makes me want to get a P182 and I'm leaning more towards the new snowboard <.< Choices, choices...

EDIT: I don't think 1.5 point font is worth the effort for your signature. Did get a laugh out of it haha!

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:07 pm

Eyedolon wrote:bones I don't think you caught the drift. It's not to *run*, just to install. Once the patch is applied, you slap the sticks back in and go.

i understand that, but that's pathetic for a 64 bit OS.

Kate · Post by **Kate** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:51 pm

Eyedolon wrote:...For us with power rigs, the heat is relatively unavoidable.

...Next step is silent mounting the HDD, or possibly replacing it with a SSD or two ...which would cut a whopping chunk out of the noise. I do believe my hard drive is louder then my 260s.

...I'd say wait till the GTX is in, see if it's acceptable and go from there. Although if you can, silent mounting (soft mounting) the hard disk is very inexpensive and apparently works wonders in quieting the damn thing down.

Damn it hurts to see this come together, because it makes me want to get a P182 and I'm leaning more towards the new snowboard <.< Choices, choices...

EDIT: I don't think 1.5 point font is worth the effort for your signature. Did get a laugh out of it haha!

Hello Eyedolon,

I read about SSD they sound impressive, but I do not mind waiting 30-40 seconds for my computer to boot, I have a Seagate 500Gb HD 32mb cache and its enough, I might buy another HD just to store my music, or maybe buy a faster HD and install vista in it and leave the 500gb to store photos, music and videos...

Ah! The GTX Im not sure if I want the 260 anymore, I am seriously thinking about waiting a few months and buying the 285, prices should drop pretty soon.

I really liked the P182, the only thing that bothers me a lot is the door, I hate those doors.. It is good because it block the noise, but sometimes the DVD auto ejects and the door is closed.... And to turn on the computer you have to open the door... But well overall the case is good and the construction is amazing!

Right now my concerns are with the high temps, I ordered AS5 and a scythe pwm fan to use with 1283 and hopefully things will become better.

I even started a new thread, asking for help, also I read about undervolting and I tried doing it.. actually.. its all in the thread, if you are interested you can check here: viewtopic.php?t=52398

I did the 1.5 font on purpose, just to see how many people would try to read that!

Eyedolon · Post by **Eyedolon** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:20 pm

The temps aren't very high at all. I saw a thread (probably on Ars) where a guy's Core 2 Duo was breaking 110C, stock clocked. Turns out his heatsink was improperly applied. Mine actually used to load at 70*C but that was because I installed my monstrously large Scythe radial with the board in the case and couldn't get one of the pins properly locked.

I would not be worried greatly about those temps.

I try to leave my tray empty (Fallout 3 says haha, no you don't!) either way to reduce drive spinup.

Didn't you already say your computer was stronger then you need? I'd throw in a vote for finish it and forget about it for a while.

Yeah, I'm still running in the ~40sec boot time, and it's fine to me as well. The only noticable gain from an SSD is in the noise and temps to me, and it's not worth that much to me nowadays. Maybe when I have more grant money next year.

Your computer should be quiet enough to leave running 24/7, and dark without a window or LEDs, right? Well, I don't know about the ATI jet in there. If my crappy PSU didn't have a bling LED fan, I'd leave my box on 24/7. (Well, if I lived in a house that had competent wiring - my box alone almost maxes the circuit that powers my room and one of the other bedrooms - Oops!)

EDIT: when I applied AS7 to my Q6600, I did a cross pattern, one line vertically centered, one horizontally centered. Seated HS, wiggled CCW and CW just a bit (clockwise/counter), and installed. Also take note not to apply *too much*. It's a delicate balance - you want a minimum layer that's sufficient to fill the "cracks" and uneven sections of both the HSF and CPU (yes, they have them, hence the overclockers and their "lapping" - don't do this!).

trandy1001 · Post by **trandy1001** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:39 am

Temps are not terrible in the least. I'm running under 30c load with a nearly passive Ninja Mini, but that's because I'm using a 45w AMD BE-2400. I'm pretty obsessive about temps, which is why I'm nervous about my northbridge (780g) chip running too warm (bios says high 30's, speedfan says something is 80c and I am going to hunt it down and throw a heatsink on it! (I had a zalman northbridge heatsink that worked well, but I just moved up to a new motherboard and it doesn't fit on the new gigabyte

, but now I have 6gb of ram occupying 4 slots [not that I needed it] and I have digital surround sound through my receiver! Joy!)

Thermal interface compound can make a huge difference, especially when it is applied correctly. My 9800GT gets terrible airflow (3/4" clearance between fan and Antec Fusion wall) and when I re-applied the thermal compound (and made my own "custom" shroud), I went from 80's to the low 50's under load.

For CPUs I recommend erring on the side of too much rather than too little. At least with too much the cpu still comes in contact with something. And you'll squish out the extra in you use the squiggle wiggle method of attaching the heatsink. Although this is not the best way of doing it (as thermal paste kinda goes everywhere if you're too trigger happy), it will at least make sure you get good contact. I know some people will think it sounds stupid, but that's how I've been doing it and it's always worked.

Otherwise, I am getting satisfactory temps all around using only 2 Yate Loon fans at 5v (probably up to 7v or 9v come late spring).

As for hard drives, I would recommend trying out a 5400rpm large capacity drive. The high aerial density will maintain some performance, but the decrease in noise is appreciable. I was forced to start using a 250gb 7200rpm hard drive in my system, and it is the loudest part in my system

. But I live an apartment on a Main Street so I'm a little screwed in terms of silence.

I still have a fair bit of work to do, I'll probably upgrade my CPU before long, and my cable management is what some might call "lacking"(functional for airflow but by no means pretty). (Unsleeved cables in my proprietary power supply is not a help either).