A little help for me and my case?

[davidrees]

Hello,

I am very new here, but I have been scouring the forums and reading guides and product reviews.

I just installed a Zalman heat-pipe cooler on my GeForce 4 Ti4600 - this was far and away the loudest part of my system and I went from very loud to what an average person would consider a somewhat quiet system.

The noise is not intrusive at all now, but I think I am getting resonance noise. Not sure how to tell.

First, here is my case:

http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=166
http://www.directron.com/mg.html

First, this is what is in it:

--------------------------------------------------------------
Enermax 365W PS - fan speed dial all the way down

Asus a7n8x-x mobo (has passive northbridge cooling)
AMD XP3000+(333) (Retail with retail HSF - not too loud)
(2) HyperX 512MB 333mhz
Audigy 2 6.1
MSI GF4 Ti4600 with Zalman Heatpipe passive cooling

Aopen 24X CDRW
Hitachi Deskstar 180GXP (not the quietest, but drive noise is ok with me)
No floppy
--------------------------------------------------------------

There are 7 fans in the system (not counting the power supply)

There is the 60mm on the AMD cooler - I have stopped it and it is not that noisy)

The 6 system fans are all 80mm Enermax adjustable fans - they have the rheostat turned all the way down.

2 lower front fans - intake
1 side fan - intake (I think this helps my Zalman a lot)
1 top "blowhole" fan - exhaust
2 rear exhaust fans near the CPU

I have pretty good cable management/cablegami, etc.

Airflow is excellent - the system is usually 38-40 and will not go above 52-53 with extreme stress testing.

The grills are fairly restrictive, and I could cut them out, but I think the larger problem is that the whole case just "hums" - I think the sheetmetal just resonated with all the motors and should be damped.

Should I just put some stuff on my panels and in my case? You guys talk about a lot of materials that I have not heard of and don't know where to get - is there a list somewhere of what works best?

I want to damp the case really well first - but nothing smelly. Is there a list or guide of what to use and where to get it?

Does it seem reasonable that resonance is now the loudest part of the PC (except HDD seeks)?

I was thinking of replacint all the 80mm fans with the 24v Panaflows that a place has for $3 - they are low flow, but I think they would be enough in my PC - low end on the current fans is like 900-1000 rpm.

Any recomendations before I write a book here?

Thanks,

DR

[chylld]

I was wondering when you'd stop asking questions

First things first: 6 case fans is way too many. Make up your mind about whether you're going to run positive- or negative-pressured, and get that number down to 1-3. Obviously, pick the ones that give you the lowest temps.

Cutting the grills will help your airflow heaps (I dropped 3-5C on all my temps after cutting the grills on my BQE) but I don't think that's the major contributing factor to the resonating. How are the fans mounted? If they're mounted directly to the case then they're just going to transmit their vibrations straight to the chassis, and your case being of aluminium construction will just amplify this.

The most popular stuff to put on your case seems to be Acousti Products' AcoustiPack - it will definitely help your case with regard to resonating and noise. I use a different kind of acoustic dampening and can vouch for their effectiveness on a steel case, so they must be even more effective on an aluminium case. I remember an owner of an Antec P160 (aluminium) applied an AcoustiPack to his case and it helped significantly.

Resonance can get pretty loud, but often it isn't really the fact that it's loud that's bothering, it's the change it makes to the characteristic of the noise.

24v Panaflos - sounds like the M1A (medium speed version). You want to stay away for these for all purposes except perhaps as a psu fan replacement. Go for the 12V L1A fans.

[davidrees]

Hmm

I appreciate the response and I am very open to the idea that I have too many fans.

I was thinking about disconnectint the front (2)fans and possibly the blow-hole exhaust fan.

I think the side fan is enough to feed cool air to the video and CPU while the 2 exhaust fans in the back should keep the warm air evacuated.

I guess what I am not understanding is - whats the real difference between 3 slow running fans and 6?

If I am going to dampen the case and go to low flow Panaflows (was thinking about replacing all fans with 24V Pana flows - 14db/17CFM - just an air trickle really)

I want to get that drive enclosure which will move my HD up out of the flow of the intake fans anyway so they probably are redundant.

If I do eliminate the front fans, should I remove them completely and maybe even cut out the metal grills? The front bezel is kind of a fan grill and I dont want to cut that - but the internal metal fan bezel is redundant.

Is there anything to keep in mind about running fewer fans than the case is intended to run?

I think the whole positive/negative pressure thing is mostly bunk - the case is not air tight and there is no way a few slow fans can make any significant pressure changes to the case - anymore than you can try and inflate a pasta strainer.

I do think that the topside fan may be a big noise culprit - its most inline with my ears. Should I just leave the vent open - so warm air can vent out if needed?

[tay]

Judging by the number of questions, I would suggest reading a lot of the articles on the site along with the forums.

Ralf Hutter is a big fan of removing intake fans. I would definitely remove those. You do have to clean the case more regularly though because of negative pressure in the case (search forums). Leave the one near the cpu /video alone i guess. Try different things and whatever doesnt lower the temp you can chuck. Make sure you monitor temps using dtemp and MBM. Do remove the fans when you disconnect them .

WRT topside fan.... close the hole with a piece of foam or something. If you leave it open tons of noise will leak out of the case. And if there are more fans pulling air in your case than blowing out, negligible hot air would leave the hole and instead the hole would act like an intake.

Also, dont sweat the panaflos, do the free mods first and then see how you feel about noise. Panaflos are good but not THAT much better than other fans at low rpm.

Removing grilles is good, but isolation mounting yields a bigger improvement. You can use foam pads or EAR isolators (again search the site for projects). For the front fans cut out the grills only if you have some plastic (in the front bezel) that prevents direct noise from escaping easily.

My advice to you is to ask 1 or 2 questions about specific components in each of their forums. Then you can collect the answers yourself and decide. And read the articles on the main site!

Happy modding!

[davidrees]

Thanks,

I will look for the articles. I try to read a forum a lot before I jump in and start asking questions - I have probably spent a good 30-50 hours reading here so far, but often forum posts are kind of inconclusive.

I just disabled the front intake fans and the top fan.

I ran CPU burn and the Asus mobo monitor - I let CPU burn run on full blast for about an hour and the CPU topped out at 52C which is fine.

I then cranked up all the AA and Ansio setting on the GF4 and played some games to see if the video stress would raise temps - when I exited, the CPU was down to 47C so I think my cooling is fine with the 3 fans.

The noise is just a little less - but now I can definately hear my CPU fan which I though was quieter - I now see the cycle everyone talks about

I think my fans are fine - I stopped the rear fans gently and they really are not that loud.

My issues now are:

1. Resonance
2. CPU HSF
3. Drive damping/isolating

Thanks guys - you got me on the right track.

[ViperComp]

Hey, I just put on one of those Antec Noise Killer gaskets on my power supply and it helped a hell of a lot. my problem is that i have the standard Chieftec/antec/enermax case with the plastic fan mounts that snap in. there seems to be a lot of vibration through them and it doesn't look like there is an easy way to mount the fan there without it. there is also a lot of suction noise, even with the fans on low speed, so you should look into that as a possible source.

[tay]

Hey, I just put on one of those Antec Noise Killer gaskets on my power supply and it helped a hell of a lot. my problem is that i have the standard Chieftec/antec/enermax case with the plastic fan mounts that snap in. there seems to be a lot of vibration through them and it doesn't look like there is an easy way to mount the fan there without it. there is also a lot of suction noise, even with the fans on low speed, so you should look into that as a possible source.

Again search for HD rubber box silencing article in the HD silencing section on SPCR. Then look for the mods the guy did (linked off that page) on his SX1040 case (sorry I cant credit who it is, its one of MikeC's friends). You can remove those plastic thingies on Antec cases and use packing foam to mount the drives. He has diagrams n all. Highly reccomended.[/quote]

[davidrees]

Well, I went to Lowes and bought some of that roofing tape.

Interesting stuff.

They had one kind - 6"x25' for about $12.50 (San Antonio, Texas)

I am guessing it is about 3mm thick - maybe only 2mm.

Anyway - I turned on the oven to 200 F and put a cookie sheet upside down and half way out of the oven.

I cut the pieces to fit what I wanted to dampen and then put them on the cookie sheet for 10 seconds or so (pushing down to make it heat faster).

This stuff went on really really easy.


I did one layer on:

both case panels - they wend from sounding like a chime to sounding like a piece of wood.

put some in the "roof" of the PC and on the motherboard tray and drive cages - could not get to the inside of the "floor" so I actually put it on the underside exterior.

I put a square on the powersupply too for good measure.

I did not go crazy, but I really knocked the shine off the musicality of the case.

I put it all back together and WOW!

It helped a ton.

I have read a lot of reviews where people say the dynamat type treatments do not do anything noticeable.

I think this is something you do after you have really taken care of the biggest problems.

Also - my case is very well made and nice from a techie point of view, but those large Alu panels are like chimes or gongs - ths helped that problem SO MUCH!

So I have 4 things I want to do and then I think most people will have trouble telling if it is on or not:

1. Get a truly silent PS - the Enermax is better than a lot, but I can hear it even with the fan dialed all the way down.

2. Get a very quiet CPU cooler - the Zalman 7000 Alcu looks like the ticket.

3. Get an enclosure for the HD - I got a Hitachi 180GXP and its a sweet drive but not exactly quiet.

4. Get a quieter optical drive - I have an Aopen 24x CDRW and maybe some of my discs are just not balanced, but it can be SO LOUD - its unbelieveable.


Thanks for all the help guys - I am well on my way.

[Ralf Hutter]

I did one layer on:

both case panels - they wend from sounding like a chime to sounding like a piece of wood.

put some in the "roof" of the PC and on the motherboard tray and drive cages - could not get to the inside of the "floor" so I actually put it on the underside exterior.

I put a square on the powersupply too for good measure.

I did not go crazy, but I really knocked the shine off the musicality of the case.

I put it all back together and WOW!

Pics please!