Avance Terminator: Better execution than Lian-Li V series?

Post by **MikeC** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:38 pm

It's another upside down mobo case with thermal zones -- and a clever CPU blow-through duct. But in steel. See the front page news -- or if you are reading this much later, click here for the news item:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/news382.html

Blappo · Post by **Blappo** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:57 pm

Hi, I'm new to the site but have found a lot of good information to quiet down my current system (and change my view on my next system).

Anyway, back to the case. It doesn't look like there is any airflow around the HDD. Since they are so high in the case, wouldn't they overheat?

Post by **MikeC** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:04 pm

HDDs -- yes, you could be right. Pics are not detailed enough; we'll see when we can have a closer look.

streety · Post by **streety** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:13 pm

Is it just me or does the HDD cage look as though the HDD's will be vertically mounted? If that is the case then a PSU with a fan in the bottom would suck air directly over the HDD's. Seems a bit strange to me though.

Blappo · Post by **Blappo** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:30 pm

streety - That is what I thought. Hopefully MikeC is right about the pics not showing enough detail, and there is actually space for air to circulate. A fan on the bottom of a PSU would cool the HDD, but it looks like the HDD would block most of the airflow to the PSU fan. I guess we will need to wait for a review to find out.

luminous · Post by **luminous** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:24 pm

I just read Mike C's news about this on the main site. It looks like a great idea, so the fact that a review sample has been requested is good news

Mike mentions that he does not know where he heat from the VGA card will go. I'd suggest that this case is meant to be used with something like the VGA Silencer that exhausts directly out of the case.

I hope SPCR gets a sample soon.

Nowhere_man · Post by **Nowhere_man** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:55 pm

I would think mounting a video card with a heatpipe upside down would decrease it cooling effectiveness.

luminous · Post by **luminous** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:03 am

Agreed. Zalman state that you should not do this. Thats why I suggested the VGA Silencer

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:32 am

I've googled a bit and found some more info here if anyone's interested (sorry it's in German). Looks like the PSU is indeed intended to suck air through the drive cage....how effective that would be is anyone's guess...

Edit: It has BTX support, seemingly...

Edit2: No it doesn't...just another "pseudo-BTX" kind of thing...

shathal · Post by **shathal** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:59 pm

Somehow I doubt you'll be able to shove the ThermalRight 120mm SP-94 follow-up into the air tunnel.

Then again, with dedicated airflow, it may not be necessary. Shall have to see how it plays out compatibility wise...

Post by **Rusty075** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:09 pm

You know, I wonder if these cases (meaning this and the new Lian-Li) are a transitional step towards BTX.

Since so many case manu's are complaining about the retooling costs of going to BTX, perhaps these cases represent a compromise: They incorporate most of the retooling needed for BTX, yet will net much bigger sales being sold as ATX. Then once (if) BTX takes off, only minor revisions are needed to produce BTX versions.

I'm not real familiar with the dimensional details of BTX, but wouldn't just a mobo plate change make these into BTX cases?

maarten · Post by **maarten** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:17 pm

I wonder if the HDD's would be cool enough if you place them above the PSU... maybe if there would be a slight airflow it would probably do the trick and keep the PSU airpath clear.

But man, what an ugly case

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:24 pm

Rusty075 wrote:You know, I wonder if these cases (meaning this and the new Lian-Li) are a transitional step towards BTX.... I'm not real familiar with the dimensional details of BTX, but wouldn't just a mobo plate change make these into BTX cases?

Somewhat. Mebbe. Not sure how much of an advantage either of these cases would be over ATX cases -- for a BTX board. Doesn't seem to me to be particularly better or worse, just different.

Main issue is airflow. The full size BTX board positions the Intel CPU (so far, it's the only brand that's supported in BTX boards) on the "front edge" of the long dimension. This is where current P4-ATX boards (and most previous ones) have IDE data sockets and RAM slots. Because this is far away (relatively speaking) from the exhaust, you then need to look at intake flow. Without one or the other, the CPU will cook.

In the prototype systems I have seen, the CPU/HSF is very close to the front, and the fan for the HS is going full blast. Being so close to the front, it's doubly audible. I've also seen versions where there is a side duct near the front of the case directly over the CPU area... whether for intake or exhaust was not clear.

In the systems I saw, ALL other components (including the video card) are downstream (in terms of fresh air) of the CPU HS. So while the CPU gets the cooling benefit of outside air, everything else has to deal with air preheated by being blown across a 120W Prescott. (worst case)

This is the most oft-repeated complaint about the BTX: Intel saved their own hot skin while leaving everyone else to figure out how to stay cool with preheated air.

Blappo · Post by **Blappo** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:30 pm

BTX is supposed to have a bracket attached to the bottom front of the case so the CPU's HS can be supported by it, and not just the motherboard. The BTX specification calls for massive heatsinks that don't necessarily need to have a fan attached. Although you will need a intake fan, and an exhaust fan to move air past the CPU to keep it cool. So I would think that these cases would need more than minor modifications to make it totally BTX compliant (especially the new Lian Li, although I like the idea of the PSU at the bottom of the case). Plus I am not sure if the BTX spec is totallly finalized yet.

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:15 am

Even after looking at the pictures at german review, it still doesn't look like there is adequate HDD cooling. You might get off with one, two, maybe even three harddrives if you have a PSU with bottom intake fan, but 4 HDDs or more would be equivalent to suicide, AND as far as I see there is no rubber mounting for the harddrives.

icancam · Post by **icancam** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 1:15 pm

At Hexus.net there is more information on the Silverstone case. Some of the pictures show a passive CPU cooler in the air flow of the front to back push-pull fan arrangement.
http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/re ... BhZ2U9MQ==

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:05 pm

icancam wrote:At Hexus.net there is more information on the Silverstone case. Some of the pictures show a passive CPU cooler in the air flow of the front to back push-pull fan arrangement.

That heatsink doesn't really look well designed for passively cooling a high-end CPU in such a setup...the air velocity across/between the fins will be lower than if a fan were bolted directly to it, so I would have thought the fins would need to be larger and more widely spaced. Still, I suppose they've done their homework...

JazzJackRabbit wrote:Even after looking at the pictures at german review, it still doesn't look like there is adequate HDD cooling. You might get off with one, two, maybe even three harddrives if you have a PSU with bottom intake fan, but 4 HDDs or more would be equivalent to suicide, AND as far as I see there is no rubber mounting for the harddrives.

This was my first thought...but looking more closely, I think it may actually be quite an effective solution. Most HDDs destined for consumer use don't need massive amounts of active cooling...the important thing is that *some* air continually flows across them, and they are not left sweating in a stagnant pocket of warm air. The drives' vertical mounting means that air will convect between them naturally, and the top of the drive cage seems quite unrestrictive, so the PSU fan should provide some decent assistance (particularly if you have a 120mm model). And the drives are in a good position from a (lack of) noise point of view...dunno about the apparent lack of decoupling though.

Of course, all this is just complete speculation...maybe the HDDs will get hot enough to fry eggs on.

I guess we'll just have to wait for the review...

At least the Silverstone version is not as butt-ugly as the Avance... (where's that vomiting smiley...?)