Worst Grills

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:03 am

Ahh birngs back memories it does.

First time I used Windows was when I ran Windows 2.11 and Excel 2.0 on a 286.

Then I made a major upgrade: 386/SX-16 (Anybody remember the SX/DX wars back then?) I made a kicka** graduation presentation by running a statistical DOS prog (SPSS was kind of dumb those days) and Excel and the thesis on Word, multitasking all of these with 1 mb (one megabyte)

shathal · Post by **shathal** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:32 am

I still *HAVE* a 386 SX/33 MHz.

FUNCTIONAL.

520 MB Hard drive, and a whole world of 4 MB of memory

.

On the plus side, it's got one of the most optimised AUTOEXEC's ever. 619 KB conventioal memory free

.

mrzed · Post by **mrzed** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:49 am

Sadly, all the nostalgia of this thread bring back to me is pain. My first computer was a ZX81. My early interest in the thing foundered when I was unable to ever save to tape properly. Hard to stay interested in writing little programs if they have to be re-entered every time you turn the thing on (especially with that lovely little keyboard).

After that, it was mom's IBM 8086. Being an editor, she got a computer early for word-processing. It amazes me that someone as freaked about computers as she still is was able to use something with no hard drive. There were 2 5 1/4 720k floppies. You would boot to a DOS disk, then load the word processor in the other. Then you could take out the DOS, and put your data disk in for your documents.

Shortly after that, a friend's dad got one of the first Mac's. Thinking back, it is truly amazing how far ahead the apple GUI was at the time.

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:00 pm

Good posts, folks.

My first computer was an Apple //e with a pair of Disk ][s and a 12" RGB monitor, which was MOST spankity for its time. This rig would have pleased SPCR with its cool 1MHz CPU, 35W PSU, and total lack of fans. That machine lasted until I bought my first PC clone. It was a 486DX33 with 4MB RAM and 120MB HD, had an ET4000 ISA vidcard (with 1MB?) and a 14" monitor. In the summer of 1991, Gateway sold that system for $2995 + $95 shipping. Thinking back, I'm not so sure the good ole days were really so great...

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:26 pm

Hmm, let's see. A kickass Athlon64 3400+ with 1 GB Corsair XMS memory, Radeon X800 Pro, Raptors in RAID, 19" LCD monitor, etc costs about the same.

Axiom holds true, kicking a** costs the same, only the boot changes

ecto · Post by **ecto** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:51 pm

My first computer was an 8086

The only DOS command i knew of at that time was "CD" (no, I didn't know about "DIR"). I got the computer from my father, who got it from work. So I sat there for a couple of hours typing "cd <insert stupid guess here>", until my brother came home and enlightened me that there was a command named "DIR".

Remember it like yesterday.. almost feels strange thinking about it

canthearyou · Post by **canthearyou** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:56 pm

The first computer I owned was a TRS-80 16K (whoo hoo!) Level II BASIC machine with an improved keyboard (comfortably sculpted, didn't KEYBOUNCE!) and improved tape deck that didn't take three tries to read a tape. It ran too hot amazingly enough (I think it was .75 MHz or something). After a few hours in summer it would start getting flaky and lock up. No heatsink or fan. Graphics was about the size of a flyspeck on today's monitors, despite that I tried some image processing algorithms from a NASA remote sensing book. I spent many hours learning assembler language and build BASIC apps.

Before that I used my brother's TRS-80 4K machine. While saving money for my own machine, I considered buying a RCA VIP 1802 setup and a OSI 4P, which actually had a color display. Very nice computer. I could not afford the Atari 800 at the time nor the Apple II which was way beyond what I could afford for a complete system. The Sinclair had not come out yet.

The first hard drive I ever saw was the Corvus Constellation, 8 and 12 MB and the size of a bread box and screamed like a jet engine taking off. It cost thousands and I didn't know there could be that many files on the computer.

I still have my TRS-80 in the closet. Along with my C64. The old 286 board and a P90 Zappa.

My brother had an unopened box of Windows 2.0 but my first Windows was 3.1 actually using it, other than using Mac GUI. Back then we used Deskview/Word Perfect/Procomm on a PC mostly.

We used to worry about the P90 overheating. Haha... But it's true, the heatsink was tiny with a tiny fan screwed right into the ridges. In summer you had to watch it. The 486SX-25 also would overheat on a hot day. If we had today's heatsinks there would have been icicles on these.

shathal · Post by **shathal** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:51 pm

canthearyou wrote:I still have my TRS-80 in the closet. Along with my C64. The old 286 board and a P90 Zappa.

My brother had an unopened box of Windows 2.0 but my first Windows was 3.1 actually using it, other than using Mac GUI. Back then we used Deskview/Word Perfect/Procomm on a PC mostly.

We used to worry about the P90 overheating. Haha... But it's true, the heatsink was tiny with a tiny fan screwed right into the ridges. In summer you had to watch it. The 486SX-25 also would overheat on a hot day. If we had today's heatsinks there would have been icicles on these.

Oh yeah, I remember those P90 sinks+fans. I can remember the concern

.

Lucky sod for having a C64. I am one of the few owners of both variants - the old "bread box" type, and the "more modern" Amiga-500 look-alike C64 II.

I had (luxury of luxuries) even a 5.25" FDD for the thing. And all the modern tools it took to get a Floppy from being sindle-sided to be double-sided was a special holepunch (or a pair of scissors, in my case).

I feel like digging up my C64 SID's I found sompleace, and play some old style game music ... (thanks to a nice WINAMP plugin

).

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:31 pm

shathal wrote:And all the modern tools it took to get a Floppy from being sindle-sided to be double-sided was a special holepunch (or a pair of scissors, in my case).

Aha, the overdensity craze. I remember scourging the market for 360 floppies that could be formatted to 1.2 MB. BASF made good ones, I remember coming home and sitting dejectedly for an hour after I learned BASF had gone out of floppy business.

shathal · Post by **shathal** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:50 pm

burcakb wrote:
shathal wrote:And all the modern tools it took to get a Floppy from being sindle-sided to be double-sided was a special holepunch (or a pair of scissors, in my case).
Aha, the overdensity craze. I remember scourging the market for 360 floppies that could be formatted to 1.2 MB. BASF made good ones, I remember coming home and sitting dejectedly for an hour after I learned BASF had gone out of floppy business.

No, not overdensity craze.

On the C64, it worked this way:

* Put in floppy one way into the Floppy-drive.

* Cut (holepunch / scissors) necessary holes into the Floppy disc ... and you could ...

* Flip the floppy over (something I somewhat expected I'd have to do, when I progressed to PC's and their 5.25" drives, but obviously wasn't necessary), and insert it "the wrong way round" into the floppy drive, and you had a second side for yourself

.

Weird, I know - but then, it was the C64...

luminous · Post by **luminous** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:16 pm

heh heh. we all have good stories from the past. I remember my mum's machine was running really low on HDD space. It only had a 40Mb drive, but we learned of a file server that was being decommissioned at work. We got the HDD.

This HDD was 5 1/4 and FULL length. It was as big as a current optical drive, if not longer, as it stuck out of the front of the machine! The thing vibrated so much, that if the monitor was not on top of the machine, it would slowly vibrate down the desk!!

And to think I'm into SPCR now - how noisy must that machine have been??????

Nowhere_man · Post by **Nowhere_man** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:04 pm

I remember an early GUI competitor to Windows, I think it was called GEOS.

I seem to remember it being faster than early Windows versions but not supported by anyone and sorta faded away.

DanceMan · Post by **DanceMan** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:23 pm

sthayashi

You can work on that bezel with a set of drills. I have an identical one. Drill out each hole with a drill bit a size larger (for larger holes, more air) and follow the sizes on the bezel, using smaller drills toward the sides. Looks good, actually lets in air. I cut the bottom slot much larger as well.

Drill bits must be sharp, or the plastic will melt slightly and the edges of the hole won't be sharp.

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:27 pm

shathal wrote:Weird, I know - but then, it was the C64...

We did the same thing on the Apples. You have to improvise when you get only 140k per side...

DanceMan · Post by **DanceMan** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:50 pm

I have an image of a Gary Larsen character in front of a barbecue full of Vantec "Stealth" fans.................

Oh, you meant grilles!

samwc912 · Post by **samwc912** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:20 pm

Here's a picture of my previous system:

It is a amd Thunderbird 950Mhz. The only exhaust in this case is the PSU. So that explains why you can see clunks of dust on the exterior of the grill.

msde · Post by **msde** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:24 pm

canthearyou wrote: We used to worry about the P90 overheating. Haha... But it's true, the heatsink was tiny with a tiny fan screwed right into the ridges. In summer you had to watch it. The 486SX-25 also would overheat on a hot day. If we had today's heatsinks there would have been icicles on these.

My first machine was a TI 99 4/A.

Anyways, I still have my P90. It was last used as the PDC for my intranet domain, and an internet gateway for when I had to use dialup during broadband outages, but I have since retired it.

It's passively cooled. There's a big 'ol heat sink that must be epoxied to the CPU, because I couldn't get it off during a halfhearted effort. I've considered appropriating the heat sink but have been contemplating donating the P90 and my oldest working keyboard/monitor/mouse for a tax deduction.

Likif · Post by **Likif** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:50 pm

When I was very very little we had a Lambda 3000. My elder brother could program the Lambda to make random characters fall down from above on the screen.

I think that was all we could do with it.

Then we got a Vic 20, because the Lambda sucked.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:44 pm

DanceMan wrote:sthayashi

You can work on that bezel with a set of drills. I have an identical one. Drill out each hole with a drill bit a size larger (for larger holes, more air) and follow the sizes on the bezel, using smaller drills toward the sides. Looks good, actually lets in air. I cut the bottom slot much larger as well.

Drill bits must be sharp, or the plastic will melt slightly and the edges of the hole won't be sharp.

I was on vacation when this thread grew.... Sorry for the late response.

Long ago, I had come to the conclusion that it's really not worth my effort to modify. The only components that would benefit from that mod are the ones that need it the least (dual PIII and a video card I can't remember). I'm much more worried about the drives, but I figure that they can withstand their own heat that they produce. If I was really worried or really cared, I would just get a new and/or different case. So far nothing seems terribly appealing due to lack of drive bays. The CMStacker looks to have potential though.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:51 pm

I take great joy in pointing out to some of my customers that my 400mhz PocketPC is faster than their current computer

DanceMan · Post by **DanceMan** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:44 am

sthayashi wrote:t it's really not worth my effort to modify. The only components that would benefit from that mod are the ones that need it the least (dual PIII and a video card I can't remember). I'm much more worried about the drives, but I figure that they can withstand their own heat that they produce. If I was really worried or really cared, I would just get a new and/or different case. So far nothing seems terribly appealing due to lack of drive bays. The CMStacker looks to have potential though.

It comes down to philosophy or practicality. Where other people buy, I modify. I open up the lower front intake of the case because I put the hard drive there, and I modify or create mounts to do it. I won't put a drive up in the floppy or cd drive sections out of the airflow.

Worst example of that: a yard sale case with the floppy, hard drive and a Jaz drive crammed into a 3-drive 3 1/2" cage. The hard drive, a 6.4G, is dying, of course.

Gholam · Post by **Gholam** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:31 am

NeilBlanchard wrote: "Generic":

Actually, they are not *that* bad. The upper two grills are much more open than they look, they are turned about 45 degrees and deflect air downwards. And how many cases allow you to mount a fan right under that hot video card cooler?

Besides, these cases cost $21 with a "300W" PSU over here, what do you want for this price?

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:14 pm

Hello:

Gholam wrote:Actually, they are not *that* bad. The upper two grills are much more open than they look, they are turned about 45 degrees and deflect air downwards. And how many cases allow you to mount a fan right under that hot video card cooler? Besides, these cases cost $21 with a "300W" PSU over here, what do you want for this price?

You used to be able to buy this for $24, albeit w/o a PS -- but then again that's a good thing....

This of course is a GOOD fan grill!! Oh, those were the days... (early last year).

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:57 pm

Gholam wrote: Actually, they are not *that* bad. The upper two grills are much more open than they look, they are turned about 45 degrees and deflect air downwards. And how many cases allow you to mount a fan right under that hot video card cooler? Besides, these cases cost $21 with a "300W" PSU over here, what do you want for this price?

Gholam, they ARE bad. Horse dump will produce more power than that 300W PSU. The back grills are really not that horrible in terms of exhaust potential but produce horrible noise. The case metal could be called paper, it's shiny and thin, if you hiccup with a screwdriver in hand, you run the possibility of opening a new intake hole! I'm not even talking about the intakes (it doesn't exist)

Those cases are sold by the container here in Turkey, and I spend my time trying to run hot components in those cases. They're an abomination.

Gholam · Post by **Gholam** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:34 am

Burcakb, I've built several hundreds of systems using these cases, I'm quite familiar with them

Intakes are perforated side panels and an opening under the front bezel, and material, while thin, is not thin enough to be pierced by a screwdriver - unless you really work on it.

They are not meant to be run with hot components, but they house Cel2.4/D845GVSR/256MB/40GB just fine, without any extra fans. Even a P4 2.8C/D865PERL/256MBx2/120GB/Radeon9600 runs in there, although you do need to add a fan or two. Moreover, the bundled PSU is able to handle that. And noise really isn't a factor when your budget for a system is NIS2000 (about $380 + VAT), you're cutting corners on everything as it is. All this doesn't keep me from recommending HEC 6A19 and 6K27 whenever I can, but 6A19 costs almost three times as much...

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:38 am

You sell 'em, I fix 'em

Sizzle · Post by **Sizzle** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:15 am

What about these? Do you guys think they would cause a lot of noise with air blowing through them?

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:19 am

No need to think; I've heard these babies in action and they cause a racket, as well as ruining air flow.

mathias · Post by **mathias** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:00 am

NeilBlanchard wrote: Linkworld:

My top fan grill looked just like that until yesterday, removing it with some sort of scissor like things sure was a hasle, and my hands are still sore. At least one like this only needs to be cut in 4 places:

ecto wrote:And I who thought my Lian-Li grill was bad.. what a fool I was. Well, it's being removed soon anyway!

Gooserider · Post by **Gooserider** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:38 pm

No grilling pictures to share, but lots of memories...

In college did a bit of FortranIV programming on a punchcard shared time setup.

In electronic school a few years later, did basic and assembly programming on a Commodore VIC-20, w/o storage

About the same time my sister was running a professional resume, thesis and word-processing service using DecMate PC's and Daisywheel printers. Her kids were playing on a C-64, and I remember them having much grief in school because they couldn't see any point in learning to print when they could already touch type...

I learned PC's originally via in-service training at my job in a typewriter repair place (I was the in-house specialist for electronic machine problems, most of the other folks worked on the IBM Selectric ball typers, most of my machines were Daisy Wheel printers.

The first machine I actually owned (and still do) was a 386 DX 20, w/ 40mb Seagate 251-1 HDD, Herc mono monitor, 360K and 1.2Mb FDD's and 1mb of ram (in the form of DIP chips). Over the years it was upgraded to 8MB RAM (maxed it out) a math copro, a 200MB IDE HDD, a 3.5" hard drive, a bunch of different tape drives, and VGA (512K VRAM!) However this was the first machine that I actually tried doing noise reduction on, long before SPCR was even a gleam in Mike's eye...

I also owned, but never did much with a Vector Graphics CP/M machine, complete w/ 16 sector, hard sector floppies (nearly impossible to find, but gave 1.8mb / disk when IBM was still doing 360's) and integrated keyboard and monitor, complete w/ glare filter... Because of the wierd floppy format it had the dubious distinction of being the ONLY known CP/M machine that the Boston Computer Society (Remember the old BCS?) CP/M group could not support...

Somebody else mentioned Geoworks... I saw it's initial release, and was so impressed I got a pre-release collectors edition, serialized package (#512 of 1000) that I still have. Unfortuneately, despite great potential, the product never became successful or lived up to it's promise.

My recollection is that some 386 and 486 machines had heat sinks, but they were small and didn't have their own fans. There was much complaint about the heat output of the earliest pentium chips, the later ones were actually cooler. However the Pentiums were the first to really have serious heatsinking issues, which were addressed by either using a HUGE passive sink or a much smaller unit with attached fans.

I've also had several printers, one of my first was a 7 pin TI dot matrix that was intended to do multipart carbons (It's still sold and supported by TI, for printing things like plane tickets, bills of lading and other such heavy duty paperwork) I then moved up

to a NEC 'Spinwriter' which was a thimble printer which could make a jackhammer look quiet. Now I use a Pinwriter P5200 24 pin dot matrix printer because it's so much quieter...

Lots of other such fun stuff, but it's more fun discussing the new hardware.

Gooserider

Worst Grills

Re: That'll be really hard to beat...

Re: That'll be really hard to beat...

Re: That'll be really hard to beat...

Re: That'll be really hard to beat...