Cooler Master Praetorian - NO NONSENSE!

FusterCluck · Post by **FusterCluck** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:02 am

This is a serious looking case. I'm replacing a $30 El cheapo and don't see any reason to buy some new fangled Wavy surf machine, Alien space craft, Lava Lamp, Neon Lighted or otherwise annoying piece of Neo-Modern Junk.

http://www.avault.com/hardware/getrevie ... praetorian

Price seems reasonable at $98. It sports thick aluminum everything in a reinforced frame with heavy duty drive cages and pullout mobo tray. Cooling design layout seems ideal with unrestricted mesh venting on front panel of the case that blows across the hard drives.

Only concern i have with this guy would be noise. I have some dynamat sitting around i'd cover all large panels with to avoid resonance. I can't believe that some of these PC suppliers are charging $80 for a bag full of acoustic foam. Is there any problem with me just getting cutting up a single sheet of acoutstic egg crate foam and covering the large side panels and stuffing unused drive bays?

There are 4 80 MM fans which are reportedly cheap, lound monsters. With such airflow capacity within the case, i won't need super-powerful fans. I need recommendations for the absolutely quietest 80 MM fans i can buy.

The power supply cage is very solid and big enough to support anything. I'm considering both th Nexus 4090 http://www.nexustek.nl/nx4090.htm
and the Seasonic Super Tornado 400 http://www.seasonicusa.com/products.php?lineId=5
both have horizontal fans to draw air upwards away from the CPU and out the back of the case, which may overcome the single weakness of this case design - the single 80 mm fan for rear venting. Or, would it be better to perhaps buy some aftermarket kit to use the "blow hole" as an intake vent for the PS?

What's left? I'll try to slide some thin neoprene (or other soft rubber) washers between the drives and the cage for some vibration absorbtion. Are decoupling devices really worth the effort/expense?

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:28 am

Certainly looks nice, but...

1) Airflow looks sustandard with one 80mm fan at the rear.

2) Aluminum resonates.

FusterCluck · Post by **FusterCluck** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:51 am

I would agree that aluminum resonates more so than denser steel. However, being an amateur speaker builder, i can assure you that with 1 square foot of dynamat attached to each side panel, the resonant frequency will drop octaves (way below that of steel), which in turn reduces amplitude to inaudibility.

About the cooling... the reviewer in the link above was supprised to find it was adequate, and he wasnt using a PS fan with the additional 120 mm fan to suck air away from the CPU. do you believe that the combination of the 80mm top fan, the 80 mm rear fan and the use of the 120mm PS fan drawing air out of the case will be inadequate?

scara · Post by **scara** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:07 am

If you're going aluminium, for a similar sort of money I would expect the Akasa Eclipse-62 to be a better case. A few key features:

Slide-out mirror finish stainless motherboard tray
1.2mm thick chassis plates
4 x 5.25" external bays
2 x 3.5" removable external bays
5 x 3.5" removable internal bays
2 x 3.5" extras bay bracket
Deigned for 120mm fans in front and rear panel
Acrylic fan duct included, installation optional
Air intake filter
Dimensions: 460 x 240 x 560 (nice and large)

To me it looks kinda similar to the Praetorian

SavRow use a slightly customised version for their Deuterium uber-PCs and its pretty quiet according to CustomPC. ez2remember writes for them so it might be worth asking him if hes had any experience with it.

Good luck with whichever, Rich

Post by **MikeC** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:42 am

About the cooling... the reviewer in the link above was supprised to find it was adequate

Yes but he also mentioned the case / fans being audible from the next room! The question is what happens when you install the super silent fans you're looking for? Really quiet fans rarely move much air...

sorenbro · Post by **sorenbro** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:44 am

All the Coolermaster cases that I have looked inside have very restrictive fangrills, espescially the rear fan grill, which often is just a few holes that look like the blades of a fan, looks neat, but performs horribly. If you decide on Coolermaster be sure to cut out these and use a wiregrill instead.

FusterCluck · Post by **FusterCluck** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:21 pm

Sorenbro,

do these fan grill openings look decent?
top - fan sized wire mesh grill http://www.avault.com/hardware/avscreen ... &content=2
rear - machined circular opening (no cheap stamped cut-out) http://www.avault.com/hardware/avscreen ... rian&num=8
front - fan sized mesh grill looks less restricting that most solid front panels with small vents at the bottom - http://www.avault.com/hardware/avscreen ... ian&num=17

MikeC,

can you recommend middle of the road fans that are quiet, but might provide decent circulation?

from the CoolerMaster website FAQ - on the stock fans:

Praetorian
Function

Q: What are the specifications of the pre-installed case fans in the Wave Master (or the Praetorian?)
A: Fan Dimension: 80x80x25 mm
Fan Speed: 2100 rpm
Fan Airflow: 26.79 CFM
Fan Air Pressure: 1.91 mmH20
Fan Life Expectance: 30,000 hrs
Bearing Type: Sleeve Bearing
Voltage Rating: 12V
Input Current: 0.12 A (0.14A max.)
Input Power: 1.44W
Noise Level: 23.0 dBA
Connector: 3-pin or 4-pin

how about these: http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDe ... 014&depa=0 i'm not sure how these compare to the ones on your recommended list. oh yes, these fans all have 3 pins. could you recommend a nice 5 1/4 bay fan controller that would let me contol these 4 fans (or others you recommend) and possilby CPU as well from front panel?

Scara,

interesting find. where can you buy this? got links to any reviews?

sorenbro · Post by **sorenbro** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:37 pm

Very nice opening at the back, I hope they continue this trend.
Too bad there is only room for 80mm fans, I've become a real fan of 120mm low rpm fans.

scara · Post by **scara** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:27 pm

You can buy the case from SavRow with various modifications for Â£90 to Â£150 ($140 - $230!). It comes with Noiseblocker SX2Pro Blacksilent fans. Not sure about specifics but Noiseblocker apparently make very good fans.

The case has been available under other guises for far less money so it may be worth abit of searching. I think when it comes out as an Akasa within afew months the price will drop quite abit.

All I can find at the moment:
The actual manufacturers page
PC Pro review - Awful site! Watch out for some spyware and ad-cookies. Also it asks you to register after afew visits.

I'm tempted to get one depending on the price so im trying to find out a bit more about it myself.

007 · Post by **007** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:19 pm

If its built with the same material like the coolermaster wavemaster then it has 3.0mm aluminum... I dont think it will resonate to badly.
I dont think you can have a better made case then Coolermaster...

hofffam · Post by **hofffam** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:45 am

Fuster - do you think your member name is funny? I don't.

FusterCluck · Post by **FusterCluck** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:44 pm

it's not intended to leave you on the floor rolling. it's my 'gaming' nick.. and quite apropo i believe. in online chess or the other strategy games i play, my favorite tactics often involve creating such chaos that other players get confused.

FusterCluck is simple wordplay. you don't have to think it's witty, but sheesh.... lighten up!

mfczap · Post by **mfczap** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:52 pm

I have an earlier version - the ATC 201.

Very high quality construction, heavy and stout. I added foam dampening on the side panels - though it didn't resonate beforehand.

Airflow is excellent - and perhaps the only downside from a quiet standpoint is that sound can escape the front and top. Definitely a beautiful case wanting quiet fans & hardrives.

Recommended.

Have you considered the Lian-Li PC-V1000?
http://www.lian-li.com/products/pcv1000.htm

FusterCluck · Post by **FusterCluck** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:56 pm

mfczap wrote: Have you considered the Lian-Li PC-V1000?
http://www.lian-li.com/products/pcv1000.htm

it looks very sexy. however, i wonder which cooling philosophy is better. the pcv1000 is wide open... which would keep average temps lower. but, in this Praetorian, it seems air would be more forcibly drawn through the power supply (im consiring heavy duty PS with intake fans like the nexus models, which would draw air up from the CPU into the PS, then out.) i've read comments that the AGP slot being above the CPU in the pcv1000 can make for a hot VGA card as well.

btw, that case costs twice as much. are you considering it? if so... i'll buy your case off you for say... $65 used?

Tigr · Post by **Tigr** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:13 pm

scara wrote:If you're going aluminium, for a similar sort of money I would expect the Akasa Eclipse-62 to be a better case.
... snip ...
To me it looks kinda similar to the Praetorian

Anyone has any idea how the abovementioned case turned from GlobalWIN YCC-61F1 into Akasa Eclipse-62 all of a sudden? I am just curious about this. I have a case like that and recently I cannot find them mentioned anywhere. So it seems they are now Akasa cases... Did some company buy another or what?

BTW, before you ask, great case. If only it was made of steel, not aluminium, it would be the best.

silverback · Post by **silverback** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:44 pm

This is my first post so it may not count for very much. Personally I have the praetorian case and I hate it. Right now its being used as a door stopper. It emits vibrations badly. Not just the side panels but everything. Even right down to the motherboard tray. Also the holes you see in pictures of the case for air intake appear alot bigger then they really are. Airflow is very restricted and within about 2 weeks what little airflow it had was almost gone because the holes clog up so easily. You also need a hex wrench to take the faceplate off to get to the filter.

Its definatly a project case if thats what your after. However my own experience with the case has been not that great.

josephclemente · Post by **josephclemente** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:55 pm

The Cooler Master Praetorian looks a lot like my Wave Master from the inside.

After mods, I LOVE my Wave Master. However, in stock form, it was pretty bad. I have done enough mods on it to make it the quietest fan-cooled computer I've ever heard. One of these days I should put it in the gallery...

I'd expect the Praetorian to need just as much work. But I do know that the Wave Master's front door does help with noise a little, which the Praetorian lacks.

FusterCluck · Post by **FusterCluck** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:34 am

silverback

You get rattling sounds from the case? this is discouraging, but thanks for the honesty. i have yet to find anyone in any review who commented to that effect. just out of curiosity, did you mount hard drives with any suspesion or rubber grommets, etc?

you say it has poor air intake through the 'holes'. this seems downright bizarre. every review i've read and over 100 new egg customers raved about airflow in that chasis (i read claims like - my system is 10 degrees cooler from just swapping cases). in looking at pictures, i can 'see' the fans through the wire mesh. is it only a problem when it gets clogged up with dirt?

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:41 am

FusterCluck,

Remember, on this site, we talk about and use low-flow/low-pressure quiet fans. If you use a lot of noisy fans that can cope with static pressure as I guess most of the reviewers have, then they wouldn't feel the limited airflow.

If you're not absolutely set on aluminium and want Cooler Master, I'd suggest you take a look at the Centurion. Similar design but the back fan is a 120mm. Air intake is from the whole front and has filters behind every drivebay. Now I'd be hesitant about any case with the whole front open for sound escape but I kind of remember several people on this forum using the Centurion and happy with it. It will also require a bit of dremelling.

Be careful about trusting a quiet 120mm PSU to take care of your cooling. PSUs are usually (and I'm sure the Nexus also is) controlled by internal temps. If you push a lot of hot air through it, it'll just spin faster to take care of it and become noisy in the process.

However, I STRONGLY suggest you take a look at the Antec 3700AMB. Just got it in. Very solid steel construction, beautiful fit with the side panels, front and back 120 fans, wiiiiide open insides. And I bought it after examining the Centurion.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:19 am

FusterCluck wrote:every review i've read and over 100 new egg customers raved about airflow in that chasis (i read claims like - my system is 10 degrees cooler from just swapping cases).

CONSUMER WARNING!!!!

Never, ever, ever trust the reviews posted at Newegg! God Bless Newegg, I love 'em but they censor all their reviews. Anything negative is pulled. Not to mention, the people that are posting the "rave" reviews are probably running 150+ CFM through their Praetorian cases. The last thing they're worried about is good airflow AND low noise.

silverback · Post by **silverback** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:56 am

No I will be honest with you and say I didnt do much to my preatorian to try and get it quiet beyond different fans. There was just far to much going on with the case. Dont get me wrong the case does not feel cheap or anything. Its just very noisy in all areas. It also has some real strange acustics that I dont think I could ever explain. The airflow in the case is very poor despite what the review say. I cannot fit a toothpick through any of the holes and a pen tip has a larger diameter then them also.

If you look at the black praetorian it gives a decent shot of the screen. if you look to the left at the size of the headphone jack compared to the holes you get a real good idea how small they really are.

Newegg Preatorian pics

monkiman · Post by **monkiman** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:43 pm

Ralf Hutter wrote:
FusterCluck wrote:every review i've read and over 100 new egg customers raved about airflow in that chasis (i read claims like - my system is 10 degrees cooler from just swapping cases).
CONSUMER WARNING!!!!

Never, ever, ever trust the reviews posted at Newegg! God Bless Newegg, I love 'em but they censor all their reviews. Anything negative is pulled. Not to mention, the people that are posting the "rave" reviews are probably running 150+ CFM through their Praetorian cases. The last thing they're worried about is good airflow AND low noise.

Newegg.com is not a forum for product reviews. For product reviews, we recommend sites such as www.cnet.com, www.anandtech.com, and www.tomshardware.com. Newegg.com is a private site that conducts the business of selling computer hardware and as such, any specifications and information posted by Newegg.com regarding products for sale must be factual. However, customer comments in regards to their experience with said products are the opinions of the user. The customer opinion reviews are used at the discretion of Newegg.com as a marketing device for positive and constructive ways to share the benefit of the product. It is not used as a source for negative commentary as we cannot endorse the validity of any negative comment. Therefore, the Newegg.com site is moderated to remove any unproven biased negative comments. It is not the intention of Newegg.com to mislead any customer and therefore all purchase decisions should not be solely based on the customer review.

Or in the words of Public Enemy "Don't Believe the Hype!"

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:10 am

Hi, this case looks the same as mine apart from the colour. As others have said it is a very high quality construction, strong and well finished. As for making a quiet case it does have some problems, but they can be overcome.
My system has a Barton 2500 over-clocked to 3200 (2.2GHz) speed (and slightly over-volted to 1.675V) and a Radeon 9600pro so its not the coolest system but not the hottest either. The limiting factor, for me, was getting hot air out of the case. With a low flow PSU the 80mm rear fan simply doesn't move enough air unless it running fast enough to be noisy. I'm using the blowhole as an intake for the PSU, if its used as an exhaust it may help. My solution was to butcher the rear of the case so it now has two 80mm fans one above the other, this works very well. A 120mm fan PSU would probably work well and be more elegant (and expensive). The front grill may be restrictive but it doesn't seam to be a problem, although I'm not using any grill at all on the rear fans.
The drive bays canâ€™t easily be removed so for HDDs to be suspended youâ€™d need to use the 5Â¼â€

canthearyou · Post by **canthearyou** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:16 pm

I've seen negative reviews on newegg, I suppse they hadn't got to them yet or they leave minor complaints. Their policy is transparent, why not remove postive reviews because they "can't be verified?" I doubt they have the ability to verify either type of review.

Cooler Master Praetorian - NO NONSENSE!

Cooler Master Praetorian - NO NONSENSE!

ty

thanks guys for ideas

no hoffam

pcv1000

silverback

Re: silverback

Re: silverback