Comment on yet another wood case design
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Devonavar
Just an idiots idea
When reading about the whole massive wood vs. plywood disc., I thought about MDF-board. I'm actually thinking about building a case in MDF, since it's quite good for aucoustics and it's more or less dead, yet made by wood.
Progress report: As seen below, the case is now sitting on my living room floor. Some assembly may be required.
ragnar: mdf isn't a bad choice, really. Easy to work with, very stable. Thing is, I don't like its appearance. The only way I could see me liking a finished mdf piece would be if it were painted black then covered with a dozen coats of clear lacquer buffed to a high shine - a true piano black. Thing is, to do that properly I'd need a good sprayer, and I don't have one. The other thing is that I just like working with real wood more. It just behaves differently.
On another note, the AC Silentium case review has me thinking about different airflows. I'd been racking my brain for ways to move the psu forward so that I didn't have a minimum height of mobo + psu + structural components because it was getting rather large, and couldn't come up with one. But now, I just might have an idea. PSU moves forward, and reversed back to front. The exhaust would be ducted out the bottom front, which would be segregated from the rest of the bottom intake. The mobo drops to the bottom of the case, which can then be made shorter. Height is then limited by retaining enough room beneath the optical drives and above the psu to suspend a couple hard drives.
Pros: smaller case size
Cons: poor airflow in vicinity of hdd, power cord would have to be routed out the psu exhaust at the bottom front, though it could then be run back beneath the case.
ragnar: mdf isn't a bad choice, really. Easy to work with, very stable. Thing is, I don't like its appearance. The only way I could see me liking a finished mdf piece would be if it were painted black then covered with a dozen coats of clear lacquer buffed to a high shine - a true piano black. Thing is, to do that properly I'd need a good sprayer, and I don't have one. The other thing is that I just like working with real wood more. It just behaves differently.
On another note, the AC Silentium case review has me thinking about different airflows. I'd been racking my brain for ways to move the psu forward so that I didn't have a minimum height of mobo + psu + structural components because it was getting rather large, and couldn't come up with one. But now, I just might have an idea. PSU moves forward, and reversed back to front. The exhaust would be ducted out the bottom front, which would be segregated from the rest of the bottom intake. The mobo drops to the bottom of the case, which can then be made shorter. Height is then limited by retaining enough room beneath the optical drives and above the psu to suspend a couple hard drives.
Pros: smaller case size
Cons: poor airflow in vicinity of hdd, power cord would have to be routed out the psu exhaust at the bottom front, though it could then be run back beneath the case.
Yeah, that's what I think too. And that means cutting an intake in the front, which defeats a large portion of the design philosophy here, with the bottom intake and rear exhaust. I was just playing on the CAD, and it looks like I'd go from 21" height to 18" height. Significant, but I was already satisfied with 21" (I was unhappy when it was over 23"). The other advantage the modification would provide is more headroom over the mobo for giant heatsinks or hypothetical different mobos for future form factors. But all in all, I'm leaning very heavily towards sticking with my current design.
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Tibors
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Why would the HD need to be suspended between the PSU and the optical drives in an AC Silentium style case? How about suspending it between the area for the PCI cards and the left side door? Then it would be right above the bottom intake and between the lower back intake and the PSU. Combine that with a 120mm fanned PSU with the fan facing the HD and PCI card area.
@Gorsnak:
Sorry for ranting about the MDF, but isn't veneer an option if you don't think painting makes for a good result? I believe there's veneer @0.3mm in most types of wood. But then again the carpenting skills would probably be quite stretched by the work needed for the veneering.
[EDIT]
Sorry, I didn't read Your answer carefully enough. I agree the characteristics of MDF isn't as, hm..., sensual. Wood feels more alive period.
[/EDIT]
Sorry for ranting about the MDF, but isn't veneer an option if you don't think painting makes for a good result? I believe there's veneer @0.3mm in most types of wood. But then again the carpenting skills would probably be quite stretched by the work needed for the veneering.
[EDIT]
Sorry, I didn't read Your answer carefully enough. I agree the characteristics of MDF isn't as, hm..., sensual. Wood feels more alive period.
[/EDIT]
In light of Tibors' suggestion, I've been playing around a bit more. The results:
Last night I had the psu sitting flat with the exhaust going forward and ducted down, and the hdd suspended horizontally above. Now I've tipped the psu up on end and set the hdd vertically behind it, much as in the AC case. Room could be found for a second one, either squeezed in next to the existing one, or perpendicular to it alongside the door beside the expansion cards (now modeled....pretty soon you'll be seeing all the caps on the mobo in these CAD shots!
) This is precisely three inches shorter than the old design, 18" instead of 21". I am undecided, but leaning slightly towards the old design.
Last night I had the psu sitting flat with the exhaust going forward and ducted down, and the hdd suspended horizontally above. Now I've tipped the psu up on end and set the hdd vertically behind it, much as in the AC case. Room could be found for a second one, either squeezed in next to the existing one, or perpendicular to it alongside the door beside the expansion cards (now modeled....pretty soon you'll be seeing all the caps on the mobo in these CAD shots!
) This is precisely three inches shorter than the old design, 18" instead of 21". I am undecided, but leaning slightly towards the old design.
Gorsnak, that looks great.
I have been contemplating building a wooden case myself but have very little experience with woodworking. I was wondering if you could explain how you build yours. Did you make more pictures during the build?
I'm especially interested in what tools you used and how you made the joints.
If you have the time to write it I think there is potential for a great article on "How to build your own computercase from scratch".
Please share your knowledge and experience.
I have been contemplating building a wooden case myself but have very little experience with woodworking. I was wondering if you could explain how you build yours. Did you make more pictures during the build?
I'm especially interested in what tools you used and how you made the joints.
If you have the time to write it I think there is potential for a great article on "How to build your own computercase from scratch".
Please share your knowledge and experience.
I have several other pics, though I didn't do closeups of the woodworking. I do plan on doing a reasonably extensive writeup, though it will be a little bit yet, since I'm still waiting on the delivery of my exhaust fan, and I want to see if I can borrow the boss's spl meter to do noise level comparisons with and without the acoustic panel in place (and of course, I've got to fabricate that panel yet. Sunday probably. Fan should arrive early next week, so writeup at least a week away I should think) The joints are primarily screwed and glued butt joints, except where that would leave screwheads visible, where I used internal cleats instead. The doors are just glued edge to edge, which requires pipe clamps and a jointer, or, in my case, a router rigged up as a jointer.
I'm not sure about writing up the woodworking aspect in detail. I am certainly no highly skilled cabinetmaker. My experience tends towards the rough carpentry range of things, where anything within a 1/8" is good enough, and the tolerances on an aesthetically pleasing piece of furniture are certainly tighter than that. My construction techniques would probably make real cabinetmakers shudder with disgust.
And even at that, novices wouldn't be advised to follow this path, but to go with the mdf-type construction others have been talking about in this thread. A whole variety of issues are avoided if you go that route.
It should also be pointed out that this isn't really a way of saving money. I haven't spent a fortune on this, but the wood was ~$50, the hardware another ~$20, plus finish, abrasives, etc, I should think I'll come to Cdn$100 before I'm done, plus 3-4 full days work. I don't mean to discourage anyone, but just to make people realize what this option really entails. Hopefully the acoustic and cooling properties of the case will make it worthwhile, and to be honest it's looking very pretty sitting stained on the floor waiting for the clear coat finish. Speaking of which, I should get to that.
I'm not sure about writing up the woodworking aspect in detail. I am certainly no highly skilled cabinetmaker. My experience tends towards the rough carpentry range of things, where anything within a 1/8" is good enough, and the tolerances on an aesthetically pleasing piece of furniture are certainly tighter than that. My construction techniques would probably make real cabinetmakers shudder with disgust.
And even at that, novices wouldn't be advised to follow this path, but to go with the mdf-type construction others have been talking about in this thread. A whole variety of issues are avoided if you go that route.It should also be pointed out that this isn't really a way of saving money. I haven't spent a fortune on this, but the wood was ~$50, the hardware another ~$20, plus finish, abrasives, etc, I should think I'll come to Cdn$100 before I'm done, plus 3-4 full days work. I don't mean to discourage anyone, but just to make people realize what this option really entails. Hopefully the acoustic and cooling properties of the case will make it worthwhile, and to be honest it's looking very pretty sitting stained on the floor waiting for the clear coat finish. Speaking of which, I should get to that.
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JazzJackRabbit
- Posts: 1386
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100 canadian sounds dirt cheap to me. Quality steel cases run for this much, so if a wooden case would be much quiter, I'd say it was very well worth it... BTW can't wait on your writeup, I'm thinking about building a wooden case myself since there aren't any good cases that could easily house 3-7 hard drives and remain quiet at the same time and I could really benefit from any practical advices...
That really is pretty impressive.. 
I dont mean to hijack your thread, but i will build a MDF case "around" the 3700AMB, bottom intake and new front panel with door and put some nice dark veneer on the whole case, if i can find something i like for a reasonable price. I have some 22mm MDF left over from building a subwoofer enclosure so i might as well do something useful with it.. 
I dont mean to hijack your thread, but i will build a MDF case "around" the 3700AMB, bottom intake and new front panel with door and put some nice dark veneer on the whole case, if i can find something i like for a reasonable price. I have some 22mm MDF left over from building a subwoofer enclosure so i might as well do something useful with it.. Nearly there!
A couple more pics:
Just have to mount the front door and put in the acoustic panel, which is complete and leaning against the wall in the hallway. My exhaust fan hasn't arrived, so I've temporarily rigged a 92mm M1A @ 5v, but it's far from ideal. Acoustically, the case has got some resonance. It's picking up vibrations from the cpu fan, primarily, so I'm going to have to isolate the fan from the heatsink. The psu also doesn't seem to be completely isolated, but the resonance in its case is very low frequency and can only be heard with one's ear pressed against the wood. The good news is that there's far less of my mobo coil hiss coming through, and this even without the acoustic panel in place.
A couple more pics:
Just have to mount the front door and put in the acoustic panel, which is complete and leaning against the wall in the hallway. My exhaust fan hasn't arrived, so I've temporarily rigged a 92mm M1A @ 5v, but it's far from ideal. Acoustically, the case has got some resonance. It's picking up vibrations from the cpu fan, primarily, so I'm going to have to isolate the fan from the heatsink. The psu also doesn't seem to be completely isolated, but the resonance in its case is very low frequency and can only be heard with one's ear pressed against the wood. The good news is that there's far less of my mobo coil hiss coming through, and this even without the acoustic panel in place.
Update: panel is in and cuts the annoying high frequency mobo coil hiss even further. The remaining hiss is emanating entirely from the rear of the case, largely through the exhaust fan port. Because of the beam-like nature of high frequency sound, I could nearly wipe it out with another acoustic panel set a couple inches behind the box, though that would look aesthetically odd. Maybe if I combined that with some sort of cable management frame.....
Anyways, I also pulled the fan off my Arctic Cooling heatsink, and replaced it with an L1A that's tied to the heatsink with elastic cord, and with foam standoffs at the corner for isolation. Has fixed the resonance issue, and for some odd reason dropped my temps as well. At least, I think so. I was idling at 47-48 before (I think - I was watching temps when I first fired it up, but I didn't take especial note of them), and with the L1A at 12v this drops to 41. So I used the 7v trick on it, and we look to be settling in around 44. Course, I don't much trust the temp reporting on this machine. It reads 3-4 degrees different between the software reporting and the bios reporting, and if either is to be believed, CPUBurn only pushes up the temperature by about 4 degrees after 30 minutes. Still, even if it's not accurate, one would think that it would be reliable as an indicator of which of two setups is cooler. And since according to the spec sheets the L1A at 12v nominally moves less air than the Arctic Cooling fan (it's the non-thermally controlled version, fixed 2200rpm), I'm at a loss as to why it would cool substantially better. Unless being stood off 1/4" from the heatsink reduces backpressure and results in higher volume of air movement. Anyways, I'll take it. The hsf was one of the major noise sources before, and the undervolted L1A is much quieter.
Overall, I think this is a success. Before, the computer was about the same volume as the fridge when the fridge was running. Now, it's about the same volume as the fridge when the fridge isn't running, and I should be able to get my 120mm Nexus when it arrives to move more air for less noise than this 5v 92mm M1A. If I put in a quieter hdd (currently a WD 80GB) and do something about the mobo coil hiss, the machine should be below ambient noise levels except when the optical drives are spun up.
Anyways, I also pulled the fan off my Arctic Cooling heatsink, and replaced it with an L1A that's tied to the heatsink with elastic cord, and with foam standoffs at the corner for isolation. Has fixed the resonance issue, and for some odd reason dropped my temps as well. At least, I think so. I was idling at 47-48 before (I think - I was watching temps when I first fired it up, but I didn't take especial note of them), and with the L1A at 12v this drops to 41. So I used the 7v trick on it, and we look to be settling in around 44. Course, I don't much trust the temp reporting on this machine. It reads 3-4 degrees different between the software reporting and the bios reporting, and if either is to be believed, CPUBurn only pushes up the temperature by about 4 degrees after 30 minutes. Still, even if it's not accurate, one would think that it would be reliable as an indicator of which of two setups is cooler. And since according to the spec sheets the L1A at 12v nominally moves less air than the Arctic Cooling fan (it's the non-thermally controlled version, fixed 2200rpm), I'm at a loss as to why it would cool substantially better. Unless being stood off 1/4" from the heatsink reduces backpressure and results in higher volume of air movement. Anyways, I'll take it. The hsf was one of the major noise sources before, and the undervolted L1A is much quieter.
Overall, I think this is a success. Before, the computer was about the same volume as the fridge when the fridge was running. Now, it's about the same volume as the fridge when the fridge isn't running, and I should be able to get my 120mm Nexus when it arrives to move more air for less noise than this 5v 92mm M1A. If I put in a quieter hdd (currently a WD 80GB) and do something about the mobo coil hiss, the machine should be below ambient noise levels except when the optical drives are spun up.
Finally got the front door on. The right door wasn't fitting quite right, so I took it off an planed it a bit, and then had to refinish it. Tedious. Anyways, it's all done except that the 120mm Nexus still hasn't arrived. So, one last picture of the finished product and I'll stop taxing the connections of those poor souls on dialup.
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Devonavar
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Congratulations
Congratulations, that's a really nice setup. Makes me want to do the same . I'm looking forward to your writeup.
. I'm looking forward to your writeup.Thats truely awsome work!
Dont worry about us dialup users, I sat here with anticipation as it all loaded! Very very nice, and I think even the missus would aprove of it in the living room.
The bit I liked best is the fact that you have to have your ear on the case to hear it resonate lol
One thing that I have on my setup that you may think about is having some kind of shroud (think you suggested it) for the rear vent. I have one on my PSU, made from silentdrive acoustic material (stolen from an old one) ducting the air to the side, which cuts the noise a lot.
Dont worry about us dialup users, I sat here with anticipation as it all loaded! Very very nice, and I think even the missus would aprove of it in the living room.
The bit I liked best is the fact that you have to have your ear on the case to hear it resonate lol
One thing that I have on my setup that you may think about is having some kind of shroud (think you suggested it) for the rear vent. I have one on my PSU, made from silentdrive acoustic material (stolen from an old one) ducting the air to the side, which cuts the noise a lot.
My exhaust fan finally arrived yesterday, and I borrowed my boss's B&K spl meter. It only reads down to 30dBA, though, so some extrapolation is required to understand the results, since I didn't register any reading at all from 1m, not even at the back. My best guess is somewhere in the low 20s at 1m from the front and sides, and high 20s from the rear. Placing the cpu under load doesn't spool up the fans, but does induce my mobo coil hiss, and this increases the reading at the sides by ~1 dBA, and ~4dBA at the rear. For reference, with the main door open, I get 33dBA at 1m, and 37dBA with the hiss. Spooling up the Nexus actually makes quite a bit of noise (low 30s at 1m, actual readings not extrapolations), since the right side door seems to be resonating with it. Probably the fan at that rpm is vibrating very near to the door's resonant frequency. No reason to run the Nexus at that speed, though, since at 7v it's keeping the case interior (as measured by a thermometer set near the top) within 2 degrees of ambient.
More details to come in the writeup, which is about halfway to completion.
More details to come in the writeup, which is about halfway to completion.
MDF
And they say there is nothing new under the sun....
Neat idea, but I was wondering if you would not have been better off with medium density fiber-board (MDF) instead of pine. Many/most speaker manufacturers use MDF PRECICELY because it is so good at reducing resonances within their cabinets (and at low cost too). Of course MDF mightn’t look as nice, but you could always use a wood veneer if looks were that important.
Another material used for speakers (generally high end ones) is Corian due to its high rigidity and lack of susceptibility to resonance, but it is much more expensive than MDF.
Anyway, cool case.
Neat idea, but I was wondering if you would not have been better off with medium density fiber-board (MDF) instead of pine. Many/most speaker manufacturers use MDF PRECICELY because it is so good at reducing resonances within their cabinets (and at low cost too). Of course MDF mightn’t look as nice, but you could always use a wood veneer if looks were that important.
Another material used for speakers (generally high end ones) is Corian due to its high rigidity and lack of susceptibility to resonance, but it is much more expensive than MDF.
Anyway, cool case.
