SPCR and Aluminum Anti-Bias?

Enclosures and acoustic damping to help quiet them.

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SPCR and Aluminum Anti-Bias?

Post by pwjone1 » Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:27 am

First, let me say I like very much SPCR reviews, there's really nothing equivalent or as in depth out on the net, SPCR was first to focus on making PCs quieter, and it's really still the best on the web at that. But I've always wondered a bit if there wasn't a bit of bias against Aluminum cases. Granted, I understand that the thicker steel cases are probably less likely to vibrate or rattle, and their heavier weight and damping characteristics probably shift what does happen to lower frequencies, which are usually less annoying. However, a lot of innovation in the PC industry has been in the Aluminum case field, with cleaner air flows and other efforts to cool better, and that may come from gamers and their desire to carry around a PC, but so be it, the innovation in Aluminum is hard to deny. Cleaner/more efficient air flows means better cooling can then be used to get lower fan noise at a given maxium internal temperature. It's after all the fans that make the noise, not the case, whatever the case material, and with various fan mounting techniques, it's not clear that all that fan induced case vibration is that much of a problem anymore. Good design, be it Aluminum, Steel, whatever, would seem to be the most important factor in a quiet case.

So, one of the things that's been frustrating to me about SPCR reviews is that a lot of the Aluminum cases are not even reviewed, noisy or not. I would like to see the measurements. And it's not like some of the leading Aluminum case manufacturers are not trying to make quiet cases, Lian-Li being a big example with its V1100 boxes, so it would be nice to see how well they've done. However the reviews are just not there on SPCR. There are reviews out on other sites, http://www.tomshardware.com rates a lot more cases than SPCR, and the reviews are pretty good, but it doesn't really rate them for how quiet they are. http://www.anandtech.com actually does rate them on sound, although its technique isn't as good as SPCR's, but it does at least do more of the aluminum cases. Here is a kind of merged comparison of the current rankings between SPCR and anandtech. The anandtech web site for this is http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/sh ... i=2346&p=9:

(apologies on the spacing, no really good way to do this properly)

Code: Select all

SPCR                                  Anandtech
                 
ARM Stealth Foundation                -not rated-
Fong Kai FK330                        -not rated-
-rated lower, see below-              Coolermaster Centurion 5
-Rated off the list!!!-               Antec P160
-not rated-                           Chenbro XPider II
-not rated-                           Enermax Sea Hawk
-not rated-                           SilverStone TJ5
-not rated-                           MGE Viper
-not rated-                           Lian Li PC-V1000
-not rated-                           MGE Sidewinder
Silverstone TJ6                       Silversone TJ6
-not rated-                           NZXT Nemesis
Evercase ECE4252                      -not rated-
Coolcases / Chenbro PC-610            -not rated-  
Ying Yang "Mars" YY-5603              -not rated-  
Antec SLK3000B                        -not rated-     
Chenbro Gaming Bomb Xpider            -not rated-
Antec SLK3700BQE                      -not rated-
Antec SLK3700AMB                      -not rated-
Coolermaster Centurion 5              -rated higher, see above-
Antec Sonata                          -not rated-  
Antec SX1000 series                   -not rated-
-not rated-                           Super Flower X-Mask
-not rated-                           Thermaltake Tsunami Dream
-not rated-                           Themraltake Darrier V6000A
-not rated-                           NZXT Nemesis Elite
-not rated-                           Chenbro Gaming Bom II
-not rated-                           Aspire X-Navigator  
I used the SilverStone TJ06 as the kind of mid-point to compare the two reviews. Maybe this is not the best technique, but its a relatively new case, rated reasonably well by both sites. There are some obvious anomalies here:

Antec P160

While Anandtech rated it #2, it's not on SPCRs recommend list at all. SPCR reivewed it, and did not like it, but then it is Aluminum, basically.

Coolermaster Centurion 5

#1 on the Anandtech list, but way down on the SPCR list. Maybe this one makes some sense, as Anandtech, while it found the box very quiet, said it did not cool well.

Lian Li V1000

Interesting that the Lian Li (aluminum) box did fairly well on Anandtech. It's not even one of the Lian Li quiet cases. There is a user review of the V2000 (very similar, but bigger) on SPCR, but no actual SPCR review. Again, I'm not saying the Lian Li's are all that quiet, but still, it would have been interesting to see an actual SPCR review, confirming it one way or another. Aspects of the Lian Li designs, with 120mm fans, and an almost inverted layout (which seems to have helped the Silverstone TJ06 somewhat), have certain thermal/noise advantages, and there seems a lot of interest in the line in the forums, so it is curious that SPCR hasn't reviewed the V1100 or V1200 at least.

_____________________________________________________

And so on. There are various other anomalies between the two ratings/measurements, but you can get the general idea. Some boxes for full SPCR review are suggested, the Silverstone TJ05 for one, but observationally there seem to be a fair number of Aluminum cases, highly rated by Anandtech, not rated or lowly rated by SPCR, which should also be considered for further SPCR review. It's hard to argue against measured results.
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Post by Bluefront » Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:44 am

I've noticed the same thing. I suspect it involves comparing a light-weight aluminum case, with a similar, but heavier steel case. I think aluminum cases would have the same acoustic properties as a steel case, if the aluminum used was thicker, and the total weight of the two cases were the same.

My aluminum case uses 2mm thick aluminum throughout.....and has none of the typical aluminum noise SPCR posters complain about.

Oh..I think the term should be "Aluminum Bias"......not "Anti-Bias". :lol:

Pick up an Antec Super Lanboy....a feather-weight aluminum case. If you would use this case to compare aluminum vs steel, it's easy to see how an aluminum bias could develop. That exact case, made from steel, would be quieter.....not due to the material, but due to the weight. IMHO
Last edited by Bluefront on Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Ralf Hutter » Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:48 am

Arrgh!! Dude, you just don't understand where we're coming from here at SPCR!


This won't be a very organized post, mostly just "stream-of-consciousness" thoughts spewed out onto paper:

Not speaking for my other SPCR colleagues, but I have no bias against aluminum at all. The bias I do have is against noise, and I have never, ever heard an aluminum case that's as quiet or quieter than any sort of steel counterpart. Never. Aluminum resonates. It's generally noisier than steel, and that's why (after actually listening to an assembled system running) I give it negative remarks.

Case makers DO NOT take this resonation/vibration into consideration when designing cases. I can only think of one aluminum case, off the top of my head, that has actually been designed not to resonate and that's the Antec Aria with it's composite, layered panels. The not-yet-released Antec P180 looks very promising in this area too.

And this statement:
pwjone1 wrote: Antec P160

While Anandtech rated it #2, it's not on SPCRs recommend list at all. SPCR reivewed it, and did not like it, but then it is Aluminum, basically.
shows that you didn't even read the review. I wrote that P160 review and the reason I didn't like the P160 is that it's the loudest (as in "resonates") high-end aluminum case that I've ever heard. Yes, it breathes well and has neat features, but it's loud. I don't care if it's made from steel, aluminum or cream cheese, but if it's loud, I'm going to complain about it. That's why this place is called "SILENT PC Review", not "High Performance/Noise-Be-Damned PC Review".

We've had this "aluminum vs steel" discussion many, many times here at SPCR and if you use the search you'd be able to read through many threads where this topic is discussed much more eloquently than I've done in this one post. Give it a shot and maybe you'll see where we're coming from. (and I'll give you a hint: it has nothing whatsoever to do with an "anti-aluminum bias")

(And here's another tip: we also don't like loud fans. It's not that we have a bias against high-rpm fans, per se, but we don't like loud fans, and high-rpm fans are generally loud)

(And yet another: we don't like loud hard drives either. It's not that we're biased against non-FDB, fast seeking, very high spindle speed HDDs, we just don't like loud HDDs, and many HDDs w/o FDB and with fast, uncontrolled seeks and very high spindle speeds are loud)

Can you see any sort of a trend here?
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Post by tay » Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:43 am

Can you see any sort of a trend here?
No? :oops:
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Post by nosoup_fouru » Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:51 am

I've lurked here for a while and learned a lot. I have tried aluminum cases several times and they are ALWAYS noisier than steel. There is just no way around it, the resonating characteristics of aluminum cases can be quieted, but it takes more work and never completely goes away. It is cheaper and faster to build a quiet system with a steel case, no way around it.

I have tried to silence steel Antec cases (reasonably easy, especially the newer cases designed to reduce noise like the BQE styles), Shuttle XPCs with aluminum cases (even with tons of mod the hard drive seeks were massively amplified by the case, very jarring), CoolerMast aluminum cases (unbearable at stock, passable with silencing mods but still not as quiet as steel), and finally back to steel this round. In less than an hour of mods with virtually no extra materials I can cut the noise in a steel case in half, more with some extra supplies and effort. I don't think anyone around here is anti-aluminum, just anti-noise. There are tons of attractive aluminum cases, but are they worth their initial price and massive extra effort when silence if a high priority?

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Post by Dirty-Harry » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:01 am

I have a P160 and find it very quiet. However, that is my 2 cents. Ralf has alot more experience then I. I look forward to the P180.

Just my 2 cents. Personally, I don't think there is any bias here.

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Post by Pauli » Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:58 pm

I've been a member at Anandtech since it started (1997?) and, while there is some token mention of noise in reviews, it's pretty much performance and cost that is the focus of their reviews and the tone of the messageboards. Noise considerations are secondary and often not even an afterthought. I spent years of almost daily visits to that site and I didn't really have a good idea of proper airflow and efficient cooling until I started hanging out here. The folks here really know what they are doing with regards to noise issues -- you'd be advised to read more reviews and messages here before you voice such a strong opinion.
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Re: SPCR and Aluminum Anti-Bias?

Post by Shining Arcanine » Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:53 pm

pwjone1 wrote:It's after all the fans that make the noise, not the case, whatever the case material, and with various fan mounting techniques, it's not clear that all that fan induced case vibration is that much of a problem anymore.
The fans don't make all of the noise. The drives and electronic components also make noise. There's also the case that reasonates as a result of the vibrations being generated by fans and drives creating noise that can build up leading to an absurdly noisy case. But don't take my word for it, make two identical computers with only variable being the material composing the case and measure their sound output. The steel case will win every time.
pwjone1 wrote:Good design, be it Aluminum, Steel, whatever, would seem to be the most important factor in a quiet case.
There was once a man who made violins. His violins were of the highest quality in all of the land. No one could produce violins superior to his and to this day no one can. Some scientists got a hold of one of his violins and examined it. They proceeded to scrap off the finish and examined it again. They found that without the finish, the quality of the sound generated degraded. What is the moral to this story? Neither good design nor good material can alone produce excellence. It is when good design and good materials are used together that excellence is produced.

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Re: SPCR and Aluminum Anti-Bias?

Post by hvengel » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:14 pm

Shining Arcanine wrote:
pwjone1 wrote:snip

There was once a man who made violins. His violins were of the highest quality in all of the land. No one could produce violins superior to his and to this day no one can. Some scientists got a hold of one of his violins and examined it. They proceeded to scrap off the finish and examined it again. They found that without the finish, the quality of the sound generated degraded. What is the moral to this story? Neither good design nor good material can alone produce excellence. It is when good design and good materials are used together that excellence is produced.
off topic

The varnish used by the Italian (meaning 18th century and earlier) violin makers is one of the greatest lost treasures of all time. Some time in the 19th century violin makers starting using a new varnish formula. Because it takes 50 to 75 years for a violin to mature enough to know if it is any good by the time they figured out that the new varish was no good everyone that knew how to make the old varnish was dead. To this day we still do not know how the old varnish was made. As a result no violins made after the new varnish came into use are any where near as good as those made earlier. As a result the supply of truely good violins is limited to those made with the old varnish and these instruments are now worth big bucks sometimes selling for more than a million dollars.
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Post by JohnnieStalker » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:50 pm

Wowie Fred

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Re: SPCR and Aluminum Anti-Bias?

Post by m0002a » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:51 pm

hvengel wrote:The varnish used by the Italian (meaning 18th century and earlier) violin makers is one of the greatest lost treasures of all time. Some time in the 19th century violin makers starting using a new varnish formula. Because it takes 50 to 75 years for a violin to mature enough to know if it is any good by the time they figured out that the new varish was no good everyone that knew how to make the old varnish was dead. To this day we still do not know how the old varnish was made. As a result no violins made after the new varnish came into use are any where near as good as those made earlier. As a result the supply of truely good violins is limited to those made with the old varnish and these instruments are now worth big bucks sometimes selling for more than a million dollars.
More OT:

The latest theory (proven IMO) is that the varnish had nothing to do with it. It was becasue Stradivarius made his violins out of wood that had been submerged in water for over 50 years.

http://www.pulseplanet.com/archive/Nov00/2272.html

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Re: SPCR and Aluminum Anti-Bias?

Post by Shining Arcanine » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:59 pm

m0002a wrote:
hvengel wrote:The varnish used by the Italian (meaning 18th century and earlier) violin makers is one of the greatest lost treasures of all time. Some time in the 19th century violin makers starting using a new varnish formula. Because it takes 50 to 75 years for a violin to mature enough to know if it is any good by the time they figured out that the new varish was no good everyone that knew how to make the old varnish was dead. To this day we still do not know how the old varnish was made. As a result no violins made after the new varnish came into use are any where near as good as those made earlier. As a result the supply of truely good violins is limited to those made with the old varnish and these instruments are now worth big bucks sometimes selling for more than a million dollars.
More OT:

The latest theory (proven IMO) is that the varnish had nothing to do with it. It was becasue Stradivarius made his violins out of wood that had been submerged in water for over 50 years.

http://www.pulseplanet.com/archive/Nov00/2272.html
The science experiment with before and after varnish (I said finish by mistake) removal shows that it did have something to do with it. The quality of the wood was definately another factor. However whatever the case this goes to show that the material he used definately had an effect on its application and the same principle can be applied to computers as the better the material used, the higher the quality.

Back from that tangent, the properties of steel are much better suited to minimize reasonance than the properties of aluminum.

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:52 pm

steel is a dirty material, steel that is in computers is one of the worst grades ever. We used to call it japanese steel, by far, the most resembling the strength of a paper bag ever in steel history. A junky composite of recycled steels.

I wonder if real US steel (which is bought by other countries and not the US normally, corporate bs type stuff) were to be used, would it resonate much better?

Aluminum is extracted from an electrolytic reaction, and well, I think even from is recycled form retains much of its pure properties. Steel vibrates in ugly ways when used in intruments. Aluminum is not that pretty either, but it behaves differently for sure. I just thitnk it vibrates easier, and that doesnt matter in terms of thickness. If you ever whack a piece of aluminum plate with a hamer, it gives off a very high pitch odd sounding whack, vs steel which has a dull thunder sound at best, when thin, and when thick a short sound.

Not scientific, I know, but go try it :) sound completely different. Sound quality is like 80% I think for making pleasant SPCR grade systems, more so than volume. so Al cases might just help procure more annoying sounds. just my thtoughts though.

I still would love a 2mm all aluminum case from Lian-li. jeez. thats a real case company. Bling.

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Post by dfrost » Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:24 pm

~El~Jefe~ asked:
I wonder if real US steel (which is bought by other countries and not the US normally, corporate bs type stuff) were to be used, would it resonate much better?
ALL steels, regardless of alloying elements, impurities, and any other properties that could define "quality" have THE SAME stiffness, which is what defines the resonant properties. What does change are the various strength properties, but that is of no concern in computer case. In fact, a lower strength steel might be preferable since it would also be more malleable to make all the various rolled edges and shaped cutouts.

I'm amazed by the low cost of decent cases given the amount of work and components that go into them. Unlike electronic components, cases don't lend themselves to highly automated assembly (but I'd probably be surprised about that, too). If they were made from "US steel" they'd probably be much more expensive for the same (?) quality.
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Post by Ralf Hutter » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:50 am

tay wrote:
Can you see any sort of a trend here?
No? :oops:
The trend is that we don't like loud components here at SPCR. We don't care what they're constructed from or what technology they're using, we just don't like noise. See where I'm coming from?
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Post by MassMan » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:39 am

Ralf Hutter wrote:The trend is that we don't like loud components here at SPCR. We don't care what they're constructed from or what technology they're using, we just don't like noise. See where I'm coming from?
I think that's the way most pc enthusiasts feel. We want the best and couldn't care less what technology has been used to achieve it. We have no technology loyalty and hardly any brand loyalty either (although a lot of people seem to swear to Antec cases, but with good reason). If the next version of a beloved component sucks, we won't buy it.
I love spcr's reviews, where the reviewer never hesitates to point out flaws on even the most popular products (like Antec).

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Post by Dirty-Harry » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:24 am

Ralf and MassMan ! ! I couldn't have said it any better.

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Post by burcakb » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:37 am

hardly any brand loyalty either
One good example is how quickly mention of Panaflo fans dissapeared once we found out about Nexus :) (especially for 92/120mm fans)
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:38 am

dfrost wrote:~El~Jefe~ asked:
I wonder if real US steel (which is bought by other countries and not the US normally, corporate bs type stuff) were to be used, would it resonate much better?
ALL steels, regardless of alloying elements, impurities, and any other properties that could define "quality" have THE SAME stiffness, which is what defines the resonant properties. What does change are the various strength properties, but that is of no concern in computer case. In fact, a lower strength steel might be preferable since it would also be more malleable to make all the various rolled edges and shaped cutouts.

I'm amazed by the low cost of decent cases given the amount of work and components that go into them. Unlike electronic components, cases don't lend themselves to highly automated assembly (but I'd probably be surprised about that, too). If they were made from "US steel" they'd probably be much more expensive for the same (?) quality.
yeah that was my point, I wasnt clear enough.
The fact that cases are made from the most crappiest import steel helps immensely in making it not vibrate. It's a plus for us! :D

ALuminum is made 100x more pure and clean no matter what the process or original materials used.

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Post by Talz » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:18 pm

I use a Lian-Li PC-69 case for my main system, and have used some of the favored cases such as the SLK-3700AMB, Evercase 4252 etc as well, and have built so many custom systems with varying cases that I wouldn't even have a guess on how many.

And I do share the general opinion that aluminum cases are bad for a quiet PC, largely because most of them are made with overly thin aluminum that resonates badly. I have found some to be better built such as my Lian-Li which I consider on the same level as the SLK-3700 series from a resonance standpoint, though the amount of noise needed for good airflow is inferior on my Lian-Li. There are two reasons I've stuck with the case at this point though. My airflow needs are lowered due to use of a Zalman reserator, and the weight advantage while slight is nice after you have acoustipacked a case as I have.

I will say that there are heavier steel cases such as the Compucase and Evercase design that have less resonance to start, but cases built like this are less and less common. A well built alu can compete with your average steel case, even some highly regarded steel cases.

So in summary, I do agree some of the anti-alu sentiment here is misplaced. BUT most alu cases are just done to cheaply to even compete, and of those that don't have bad resonance it's tough to find one really designed for properly for a quiet or especially a silent system. It would be interesting if SPCR could get their hands on some of the better alu cases for testing though. There just aren't very many out there.

Not to change topics but personally I'm hopeful that the hybrid combo Antec has with Alu/plastic and steel in their upcoming P180 combined with a good airflow design will finally convince me to go for the case upgrade I've been putting off. It doesn't look to be super light, but oh well. ;)

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Re: SPCR and Aluminum Anti-Bias?

Post by Talz » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:34 pm

Regarding these cases specifically.

Antec P160

Coolermaster Centurion 5

Lian Li V1000, V2000 etc

I really don't think much of this Antec. Antec's tend to use thin materials to begin with and this is just a bad mistake on aluminum if you are wanting quiet. The Coolermaster is simply not up to par on airflow. Now the newer Lian-Li models I would like to see an SPCR review on, especially what it would do with reference quiet fans resplacing the stockers.

I do feel I should mention that while I find Anandtech a good source of info and reviews that SPCR's case reviews are really much more informative and in-depth as to how the case really performs. Largely because of their willingness to seperate to some extent the case design performance from the included fans performance. Loud stock fans can make the best case ever for quiet computing into something intolerable but they are easy to replace if it's in the budget. :)

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:55 pm

yes the coolermaster is a wide case that is built a brick sh$$-house. The front drive cover, being rigid, thick aluminum on a S curve shape, seems to block a lot of sound from the front top where the cd drives are.

The problem I see is the bottom vent for the front fan. its not a grill type. Ialways thought that grill on front ='s sound escaping from that direction. I probably am correct in that. I know I have seen/read the low flow multi fan threads of air being pushed into the case through the 120 mm grate, but I say that in a performance minded system, I cant see that being quieter unless the GPU and CPU are Reserator1 cooled.

Here is a general fan question for my Cavalier case, being that the front is designed for an 80 mm, if i use a panaflo on it, would thatt have enough push at a lower volt to make it worthwhile??
I am wondering if my rear pabst pulls too much making it essentiall pulling the front fan by itself.

Wouldnt want another fan if it doesnt do anything (goal heree is to make the system ready for a 350 Phantom, I want a front and a rear fan, and then no internal fans with a reserator come this august as phase 2 of the plan)

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Re: SPCR and Aluminum Anti-Bias?

Post by Rusty075 » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:29 pm

Talz wrote:The Coolermaster is simply not up to par on airflow.
~El~Jefe~ wrote:yes the coolermaster is a wide case that is built a brick sh$$-house. The front drive cover, being rigid, thick aluminum on a S curve shape, seems to block a lot of sound from the front top where the cd drives are.
Did you guys even read the Centurion V review???

1: It's not Aluminum
2: The entire front bezel is open mesh. How can that "not be up to par on airflow"? It also has no door, aluminum or not.
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Post by Tibors » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:51 pm

I think at least ~El~Jefe~ and maybe Talz too, are actually talking about the Wavemaster. They just call it by the wrong name.
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~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:23 pm

Lol sux yeah Cavalier

lol

dfrost
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Post by dfrost » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:03 pm

Another comment about aluminum cases, or at least those that use sleds for HDD's:

Aluminum on aluminum is very prone to galling - very high friction, even to the point of seizing, when like materials rub.

I happened to glance at an Antec P160 case briefly at Fry's this weekend and noticed that the sleds and drive bay are, of course, both aluminum. This interface could create galling very easily if those sleds fit anything like those in my Sonata. If you have an Al case with drive sleds, it would be a very good idea to keep that interface lubed to prevent galling.
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davidstone28
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Re: SPCR and Aluminum Anti-Bias?

Post by davidstone28 » Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:49 am

pwjone1 wrote: Lian Li V1000

so it is curious that SPCR hasn't reviewed the V1100 or V1200 at least.
Only the SPCR reviewers can answer that one. Sure, it would have been interesting to see a review when the case first came out but as an owner of the V2000 (and previously the Sonata), the V2000 doesn't come remotely close to outperforming the BQE / Sonata / and other SPCR 'quiet' type of cases. It just has too many flaws from a silencing perspective. That's confirmed by user experiences / postings in the forums.

Given SPCR's whole raison detre it doesn't seem that unusual to me that it hasn't been reviewed.

meglamaniac
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Post by meglamaniac » Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:57 am

Wow, somebody knows how to get lots of replies to a thread...!
Rusty has covered it all anyway so far as I can see.

Let me just chip in with this:
My case is aluminium, the LianLi PC6070B. LianLi market this as a quiet case - it might be if you have a JCB parked and running in your room all the time.
In it's stock configuration this thing resonates, and I mean RESONATES, with a loud mid-tone hum which is picked up from the harddrive cage, transfered through the floor of the case and from there into the side panels where it gets amplified.
After applying acoustipack and decoupling the entire harddrive cage (it sits on a foam block on the floor of the case now) I've managed to tame it, but these problems would never have been anywhere near such an issue with steel.

Aluminium is a bad place to start for a quiet system.
I knew this when I started with this one but went ahead anyway because I was prepared to work at it - but if you're not prepared to heavily modify your case then don't bother. When you consider the price of the case I have, I can fully understand why people would think twice before taking a saw to it.

Lastly, price is a big factor in the lack of Alu case reviews. They are costly, and so are less likely to be donated for review.

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Post by tay » Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:53 am

WRT the Lianli V1000 not being reviewed I hope one of the reviewers can jump in but I remember MikeC mentioning that he did not publish a review panning the $250 chenbro gaming bomb II aluminum case.
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Post by Sanatarium » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:57 pm

Ok, I have something to add about those V-series Lian-Lis, they are FULL of holes! If you want a quiet case, that should be on the bottom of your list, the first step to stopping noise, is putting as much "stuff" between the source, and you. those V-series cases do nothing but leak noise.

As an owner of 2 Lian Li PC60 series cases, as well as a number of steel cases, one dedicated to silence, the steel case is far quieter than the 2 Lian Lis, one Lian Li is across the room and it is fairly quiet, with about the same amount of noise present, but I can hear it from about 10 feet away, the steel case, is 2 feet from my ear, and it is nearly inaudible unless there are no other sources of noise. keep in mind the 2 systems use almost identical fan configurations so the noise coming from each should be the same, but this proves that it is not!!!
That's why this place is called "SILENT PC Review", not "High Performance/Noise-Be-Damned PC Review".
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[url=http://members.cox.net/monkey46/com_1.htm]Old Skool Silence[/url] - [url=http://members.cox.net/desertdragon24/staff/staffpage.htm]ATi:Ressurected[/url]

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