I have searched every thread mentioning it, but can't see a consensus on whether or not to block the top fan hole.
Please vote if you have tried both ways.
I guess the set up makes a big difference, I plan to use the upper 3.5" bay as a tunnel with a Nexus blowing over the MB and GPU, Tunig Tower with Nexus 120 blowing towards the back and/or maybe a Nexus 120 on a Sunbeam PCI anywhere blowing over the MB / vid card with all the unused PCI slots open.
Anyway, all the air will be moving front to back, not up. I have removed all grills and filters.
I know it will be best just to test it and see, but has anyone done so already and what results did you have? Both noise wise and heat wise?
Also, if open, blowing in or out?
P180 / P182 Top Fan. Who has tried open and closed?
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Devonavar
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stevenkelby
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:09 am
I voted for louder and cooler but in reality my P180 is the same noise level and cooler. I have tried a 120mm fan blowing up,and no fan at all. And the open vent with no fan is ~3-4C cooler on the cpu. I recall a post made by MikeC suggesting another method of placing an air dam 2" to the front of the HSF and protruding downward 4-5" into the case from the inside of the top. This causes cool air to be sucked downward from the top vent into and over the HSF and out the back of the case.
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stevenkelby
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:09 am
Damn I knew I would forget at least one option!
Yeah I remember reading that Mike C idea, I think I will try that with no fan on top, just a big hole.
I'm a firm believer in no grills now, after lots of experimenting on my old case with various fans and grills. Actually one of those cheap steel wire grills with half the rings removed sounds the same as no grill though, so I might put some of those over the holes to keep rats out.
They are just a cross with 7 rings stuck to it, in about 2 mm steel, chromed.
I cut off the odd numbered rings.
Yeah I remember reading that Mike C idea, I think I will try that with no fan on top, just a big hole.
I'm a firm believer in no grills now, after lots of experimenting on my old case with various fans and grills. Actually one of those cheap steel wire grills with half the rings removed sounds the same as no grill though, so I might put some of those over the holes to keep rats out.
They are just a cross with 7 rings stuck to it, in about 2 mm steel, chromed.
I cut off the odd numbered rings.
How about reversing the top fan so it blows cool air over the cpu and pwm.
I do not know if there is a good reason against doing this as aerodynamics is not a stong point of mine. But i have tried fan as normal, fan disabled, hole blocked and finally fan reversed.
i do not get a great deal of difference with the first 3 but with the fan reversed i get roughly a 5c drop on cpu under load and a 10c drop on pwm.
The only dowside i have found which to me seems minor is that sys temp takes a 1-2c hit and also the graphics card gets the same 1-2c hit.
My 180 setup is this.
Abit ab9-pro E6600 running at 3.2 9x356 with mem set at 1:1
Arctic cooling freezer 7 pro
Replaced stock tricools with Noctus 12/1200's
Added extra noctua to the middle drive bay in the inside position blowing over graphics and northbridge. Also added Scythe karma bay in top 3 slots with the standard scythe 800 fan.
My temps
cpu idle 32c load 49c
sys idle 30c load 32c
pwm idle 34c load 42c
With the top fan exhausting as per standard setup
cpu idle 36c load 55c
sys idle 28c load 30c
pwm idle 44c load 53c
As i said i do not know if it is a good idea or not but it seems to work for me.
I do not know if there is a good reason against doing this as aerodynamics is not a stong point of mine. But i have tried fan as normal, fan disabled, hole blocked and finally fan reversed.
i do not get a great deal of difference with the first 3 but with the fan reversed i get roughly a 5c drop on cpu under load and a 10c drop on pwm.
The only dowside i have found which to me seems minor is that sys temp takes a 1-2c hit and also the graphics card gets the same 1-2c hit.
My 180 setup is this.
Abit ab9-pro E6600 running at 3.2 9x356 with mem set at 1:1
Arctic cooling freezer 7 pro
Replaced stock tricools with Noctus 12/1200's
Added extra noctua to the middle drive bay in the inside position blowing over graphics and northbridge. Also added Scythe karma bay in top 3 slots with the standard scythe 800 fan.
My temps
cpu idle 32c load 49c
sys idle 30c load 32c
pwm idle 34c load 42c
With the top fan exhausting as per standard setup
cpu idle 36c load 55c
sys idle 28c load 30c
pwm idle 44c load 53c
As i said i do not know if it is a good idea or not but it seems to work for me.
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stevenkelby
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:09 am
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stevenkelby
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:09 am
I have cut out the grills for the top and rear fans but i have left the front filters in place.
Before i added the karma bay and reversed the top fan there was a couple of degrees difference between having the door open or closed.
Since the changes there appears to be no difference there possibly could be over time i suppose but i have tried both ways for a couple of hours a time.
I am waiting on a ninja arriving i only bought the ac7 because it was on aria specials at a silly price. Plus the stock cooler was way too noisy.
Before i added the karma bay and reversed the top fan there was a couple of degrees difference between having the door open or closed.
Since the changes there appears to be no difference there possibly could be over time i suppose but i have tried both ways for a couple of hours a time.
I am waiting on a ninja arriving i only bought the ac7 because it was on aria specials at a silly price. Plus the stock cooler was way too noisy.
g0uex....
I finally ran across someone else who has the top fan in a P180 blowing down onto the cpu/heatsink. I tried the normal exhaust up method, then afterwards i blocked the hole, and then finally i had the fan blow down like you have yours.
I have yet to find anyone who would agree with me on doing it this way. But i know what works for my system. I've had people tell me that i'm reading the temps with probably a diode on the motherboard, but you know what? Who cares where the sensor is! As long as the end result is a lower temp.
I know that were supposed to listen to MikeC, cause he has done a heck of a lot more of this stuff than we have, but i know what my machine likes, and it is the air blowing DOWN.
The one drawback that i don't like is that it tends to bring dust into the machine faster. But that really doesn't bother me, cause i clean my machine and the other filters, atleast once a month.
And to really make you guys mad at me, i tried the Ninja, and found that my Zalman CNPS7000B-ALcu was cooler. Why? Probably cause of that diode that my Asus board has for reading the CPU temp. But then again, aren't we trying to get the lowest temps. Maybe if i had expensive equipment and had the sensor right on the CPU, i would see different results. But i don't, so i go by what my readings with MBM 5, and SpeedFan, and EVEREST Ultimate Edition tell me.
The point i am trying to make is...... try different approaches, and go with what works for YOUR system.
Go easy on the flames guys
I finally ran across someone else who has the top fan in a P180 blowing down onto the cpu/heatsink. I tried the normal exhaust up method, then afterwards i blocked the hole, and then finally i had the fan blow down like you have yours.
I have yet to find anyone who would agree with me on doing it this way. But i know what works for my system. I've had people tell me that i'm reading the temps with probably a diode on the motherboard, but you know what? Who cares where the sensor is! As long as the end result is a lower temp.
I know that were supposed to listen to MikeC, cause he has done a heck of a lot more of this stuff than we have, but i know what my machine likes, and it is the air blowing DOWN.
The one drawback that i don't like is that it tends to bring dust into the machine faster. But that really doesn't bother me, cause i clean my machine and the other filters, atleast once a month.
And to really make you guys mad at me, i tried the Ninja, and found that my Zalman CNPS7000B-ALcu was cooler. Why? Probably cause of that diode that my Asus board has for reading the CPU temp. But then again, aren't we trying to get the lowest temps. Maybe if i had expensive equipment and had the sensor right on the CPU, i would see different results. But i don't, so i go by what my readings with MBM 5, and SpeedFan, and EVEREST Ultimate Edition tell me.
The point i am trying to make is...... try different approaches, and go with what works for YOUR system.
Go easy on the flames guys
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stevenkelby
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:09 am
Good point John, and I think thats what I'm going to have to do, try for myself lots of different things and see what works in my system.
There can't be any hard and fast rules because we all have so many subtle differences in our systems with different hardware in different places, doing different things.
Even in a P180 some people have fans at the front, filters removed, hard drives in the middle chamber etc.
There can't be any hard and fast rules because we all have so many subtle differences in our systems with different hardware in different places, doing different things.
Even in a P180 some people have fans at the front, filters removed, hard drives in the middle chamber etc.
JohnFL ...
Before i decided to try reversing the top fan i trawled the net for topics on the 180 because i knew it was highly likely that somebody else would have already tried the idea out.
But i i found nothing on the topic it appeared more people seemed to be blocking the top hole off or leaving it as it was.
I presumed that there was probably a good reason for none of the reviews of the case trying the fan reversed.
I have checked for any areas of the case taking a hike in temps or loss in airflow becasue of the change and apart from the 1-2c hit on graphics and sys temp under load i can not find one.
I have been using the supplied abit uguru for the temps alongside coretemp and have been using orthos to load the cpu and atitool to load up the graphics card.
Have you actually read somewhere that it is a bad idea ?
The top fan was also the noisiest case fan when ramped up in exhaust mode when reversed it became one of the quietest in the case. Though i suppose the difference there could be that when it was exhausting it was being helped by the proximity of the cpu fan blowing air through the sides of the hsf right onto the blades of the top fan, whereas now it is in effect fighting against that same airflow.
I had not though about it as a dust inlet but after reading your comments on it i will rig up some kind of filter for the job.
Before i decided to try reversing the top fan i trawled the net for topics on the 180 because i knew it was highly likely that somebody else would have already tried the idea out.
But i i found nothing on the topic it appeared more people seemed to be blocking the top hole off or leaving it as it was.
I presumed that there was probably a good reason for none of the reviews of the case trying the fan reversed.
I have checked for any areas of the case taking a hike in temps or loss in airflow becasue of the change and apart from the 1-2c hit on graphics and sys temp under load i can not find one.
I have been using the supplied abit uguru for the temps alongside coretemp and have been using orthos to load the cpu and atitool to load up the graphics card.
Have you actually read somewhere that it is a bad idea ?
The top fan was also the noisiest case fan when ramped up in exhaust mode when reversed it became one of the quietest in the case. Though i suppose the difference there could be that when it was exhausting it was being helped by the proximity of the cpu fan blowing air through the sides of the hsf right onto the blades of the top fan, whereas now it is in effect fighting against that same airflow.
I had not though about it as a dust inlet but after reading your comments on it i will rig up some kind of filter for the job.
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stevenkelby
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:09 am
g0uex, I took away all the filters and grills as they restrict the flow of air and increase the noise. I tested a lot with and without filters and grills and there is less airflow with even a grill in place, a filter is terrible. There is also lots more noise just holding a filter or grill in front of a fan. With a filter you need to rev up the fan a lot to get the same airflow through, making it even noisier.
The thing is, dust gets in the case anyway! Wit the restriction at the filter, dusty air is sucked in through any tiny gaps in the case so you still need to blow / vacum out the case every year or so.
Thats what I think anyway, but I could be wrong!
The thing is, dust gets in the case anyway! Wit the restriction at the filter, dusty air is sucked in through any tiny gaps in the case so you still need to blow / vacum out the case every year or so.
Thats what I think anyway, but I could be wrong!
If you place the fans and filters a distance apart it does not seem to make a great difference in noise levels,
When i first put in the new fans i placed the middle and top front ones directly behind the front fascia and there was a fair increase in noise so i placed the middle one in the middle of the case on the back of the top pullout drivebay using the clips provided with the case.
I also put the 800 rpm scythe back into the karma bay as i had replaced it with a noctua before fitting it.
It does not seem to be sucking dust in from all over the place though it is a new build of about 3 weeks so given time i will probably see the effect.
As for cleaning out every year or so if it takes that long to get dusty i will be well impressed. The last sys i had for a few years was based in a thermaltake damier case with fans all over the place and that needed cleaning out every month at least.
I think the 182 is a really good starting point for a nice quiet powerful system maybe not good enough for people searching for true silence but i would think the average user would be more than impressed with it.
When i first put in the new fans i placed the middle and top front ones directly behind the front fascia and there was a fair increase in noise so i placed the middle one in the middle of the case on the back of the top pullout drivebay using the clips provided with the case.
I also put the 800 rpm scythe back into the karma bay as i had replaced it with a noctua before fitting it.
It does not seem to be sucking dust in from all over the place though it is a new build of about 3 weeks so given time i will probably see the effect.
As for cleaning out every year or so if it takes that long to get dusty i will be well impressed. The last sys i had for a few years was based in a thermaltake damier case with fans all over the place and that needed cleaning out every month at least.
I think the 182 is a really good starting point for a nice quiet powerful system maybe not good enough for people searching for true silence but i would think the average user would be more than impressed with it.
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thejamppa
- Posts: 3142
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- Contact:
I think P-182 suits peoples, who want to build powerful but as quiet computer as possible. I mean P-150 / Solo is quieter, but smaller case. I use my P-182b case housing my gaming rig with dual overclocked 7900gs.
P-182B is great when you need space and have a lot hardware that can heat up well. Like gaming rig etc. For 24/7 regular machine I'd probably take P-150/Solo.
This topic is intresting and I should try the things mentioned in here and see how they affect my X2 3800+ with Manchester core.
P-182B is great when you need space and have a lot hardware that can heat up well. Like gaming rig etc. For 24/7 regular machine I'd probably take P-150/Solo.
This topic is intresting and I should try the things mentioned in here and see how they affect my X2 3800+ with Manchester core.
g0uex.....
viewtopic.php?t=37697&highlight=
I posted this back in January. The reason for the post was primarily to show how i had modified my P180, so i could run the power supply cables behind the motherboard tray. In that post you can see i stated that my temps had dropped 2C by reversing the fan, and having it blow down onto the CPU.
stevenkelby.....
I agree... The placement of different PCI cards, or more hard drives here than there, can certainly change the flow path of the air. I do feel tho, that by redirecting my power supply cables behind the motherboard tray, that the air flow must have surely become more uniform throughout the compartments. So just turning the top fan around to blow down into the case, is only part of what we should be looking at.
viewtopic.php?t=37697&highlight=
I posted this back in January. The reason for the post was primarily to show how i had modified my P180, so i could run the power supply cables behind the motherboard tray. In that post you can see i stated that my temps had dropped 2C by reversing the fan, and having it blow down onto the CPU.
stevenkelby.....
I agree... The placement of different PCI cards, or more hard drives here than there, can certainly change the flow path of the air. I do feel tho, that by redirecting my power supply cables behind the motherboard tray, that the air flow must have surely become more uniform throughout the compartments. So just turning the top fan around to blow down into the case, is only part of what we should be looking at.
As an update i have now fitted the Ninja rev B with the scythe 1200 fan it came with.
The temps are all up on what it was with the ac7pro by 2-3c. Also as the fan supplied is 3 pin i have lost bios control of the fan so it is running at fullspeed 1200rpm.
I will give it a couple of days while i try different ideas with it but it looks like in my case the ac7pro is a better solution than the ninja.
The temps are all up on what it was with the ac7pro by 2-3c. Also as the fan supplied is 3 pin i have lost bios control of the fan so it is running at fullspeed 1200rpm.
I will give it a couple of days while i try different ideas with it but it looks like in my case the ac7pro is a better solution than the ninja.
g0uex....
You are not the first that has not had better results with the Ninja. I for one did not either! But i was told that either i did not install it correctly, or my sensor was in the wrong place to read the correct temp, or etc, etc.
What i did was go back to my Zalman fan and put the Ninja in my drawer.
Probably not a popular decision with a lot of the readers on this forum, but after lapping the Ninja, trying different compounds like Arctic Silver, the end result was my Zalman was doing a better job.
Like you i let it burn in for a few days, but i saw no improvement, what so ever.
You are not the first that has not had better results with the Ninja. I for one did not either! But i was told that either i did not install it correctly, or my sensor was in the wrong place to read the correct temp, or etc, etc.
What i did was go back to my Zalman fan and put the Ninja in my drawer.
Probably not a popular decision with a lot of the readers on this forum, but after lapping the Ninja, trying different compounds like Arctic Silver, the end result was my Zalman was doing a better job.
Like you i let it burn in for a few days, but i saw no improvement, what so ever.
I think that for most people on this forum silence is the main issue and in that situation the ninja is probably very good.
My main concerns are cool and quiet i have a little antec aria in this room in use as a server and the 120mm psu on that is louder to me than all the fans in this new sys put together. So the silence is out of the window for me.
I have just had the ninja back out and double checked it again on install and it is according to the book here. I am not going to give up on the ninja yet i think it just needs a better fan so i am looking for something around 2000rpm with pwm control but the only thing close i have found so far is the arctic cooling 120 with pwm and i dont think that would mount using the clips supplied with the ninja.
If i manage to find a fan to suit and it does the job i will post back and let you know.
My main concerns are cool and quiet i have a little antec aria in this room in use as a server and the 120mm psu on that is louder to me than all the fans in this new sys put together. So the silence is out of the window for me.
I have just had the ninja back out and double checked it again on install and it is according to the book here. I am not going to give up on the ninja yet i think it just needs a better fan so i am looking for something around 2000rpm with pwm control but the only thing close i have found so far is the arctic cooling 120 with pwm and i dont think that would mount using the clips supplied with the ninja.
If i manage to find a fan to suit and it does the job i will post back and let you know.
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jaldridge6
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- Location: Hell
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jaldridge6
- Posts: 319
- Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 2:31 am
- Location: Hell
jaldridge6 ... I have done what you suggested with the fan in the aria psu and it appears to have worked out well so thanks for that.
It is not north south fan though just a standard rear blower.
As for the post about silence in the 182 i have no issues with noise from the case in fact i am more than impressed. However i now think i went overboard with all the fans etc so now i am trying the ninja passive with the other fans on 8v and it appears to be holding its own. There is only a handfull of degrees difference between running it passive or running it with the supplied scythe 1200 fan. Though it is a bit cooler tonight than it has been the last few days so i will get a better idea when the weather picks back up.
It is not north south fan though just a standard rear blower.
As for the post about silence in the 182 i have no issues with noise from the case in fact i am more than impressed. However i now think i went overboard with all the fans etc so now i am trying the ninja passive with the other fans on 8v and it appears to be holding its own. There is only a handfull of degrees difference between running it passive or running it with the supplied scythe 1200 fan. Though it is a bit cooler tonight than it has been the last few days so i will get a better idea when the weather picks back up.